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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: CottbusFiles on November 25, 2011, 12:26:06 PM

Title: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: CottbusFiles on November 25, 2011, 12:26:06 PM
Greetings fellow travelers....

In a lot of despritions of DF towns i have seen bars/restaurants/pups as neutral grounds. On close seconds there are book stores i think?

Do you have any ideas for other Neutral Grounds? A Fight Club boxing arena maybe for Duells mostly? (can there be accoreded duels on accored ground?). For the Vienna game i will possibly never run i thought about a diagon alley type market next to a famous market of the town.

What other ideas for neutral grounds may there be? Parks? Schools?


Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: SunlessNick on November 25, 2011, 04:46:29 PM
Residents of a particular location might want to get major landmarks declared neutral, to prevent out-of-towners from messing them up.

A secure hall where parties can meet more privately than a restaurant, and avoid eavesdroppers.

A medical clinic.
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: Richard_Chilton on November 25, 2011, 08:48:23 PM
A library.

A bookstore with a private reading room.

Whatever it is, it has to be some kind of meeting place that isn't inherently offensive or awkward to be around.  (By that I mean no strip clubs but also no children's play parks or other places where the average accord member would stand out.)  There should be a "backroom" or other semi-private place where people (and things) can talk without freaking the mundanes.  And it should be indoors or otherwise equipped to deal with inclement weather

Bars, coffee shops, tea shops, small galleries - places like those top most lists because those are the types of places that people meet.

Richard
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: sinker on November 25, 2011, 09:03:13 PM
We had a game running where we were trying to build a school for mortal talents. We were trying to get accorded neutral status.
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: Richard_Chilton on November 26, 2011, 05:52:39 AM
I can't see any "faction's" home base getting Neutral Grounds status.  That is, the White Court's (or Red Court's) brothel wouldn't get Neutral Grounds status - so that a school that's its own faction isn't up there on the list of things that I see as "neutral".

Then there's the question of whether the school offers adult education.  If not then, well, it's not really suitable as a meeting place.  I mean, can you imagine what would have happened if Harry headed to an elementary, middle, or even high school in Storm Front? A sketchy type like him would have had a parent calling the cops...
Murphy (using a puzzled voice): "Harry, I didn't know that you had a child..."
Harry: "Um, I don't.  I just like hanging around schools..."
Murphy: "You have the right to remain silent you SOB and if you give up that right I'll be only too happy pound you into silence..."

No, it's a good thing that he headed to a bar.

Richard
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: Blackblade on November 26, 2011, 06:45:01 AM
I've toyed around with the idea of a supernatural information broker, facilitator, and all-around middleman who has managed to get his premises declared neutral grounds.  The man in charge is absolutely strict in not taking sides or betraying the confidence of his employers, and has sought protection under the accords so that otherwise warring factions may be forced to peacefully wait their turn in the lobby, so to speak.  It's been lightly incorporated into on of the games I'm playing. 
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: Quackerjack on November 26, 2011, 02:04:18 PM
In my game one of the local Burger Kings is a Neutral Ground
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: TheMouse on November 26, 2011, 03:31:33 PM
Maybe this is my years playing Vampire: the Masquerade speaking, but I'm pretty fond of after-hours museums for such things. In particular, I'm very fond of some ancient supernatural beings standing by particular exhibits and laughing at their inaccuracies.
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: noclue on November 26, 2011, 10:15:10 PM
How about Disneyland? Walt certainly wouldn't want the place all busted up.
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: ARedthorn on November 27, 2011, 01:48:18 PM
Not a problem. Walt was an Outsider. The place is protected.
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: Wyrdrune on November 28, 2011, 08:20:18 AM
libraries, parks, gentlemen's clubs, saunas...
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: devonapple on November 28, 2011, 07:02:52 PM
I use a Chinese Tea Room as our ANG. For Accorded Summits, they can use one of the banquet rooms.
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: tetrasodium on November 28, 2011, 08:28:42 PM
I've been toying with making the miami metrozoo (http://www.miamimetrozoo.com/) ANG. It's pretty unusual for a zoo & & would work nicely
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: devonapple on November 28, 2011, 08:31:39 PM
Am I mistaken in assuming that any ANG would have to be a somewhat obscure location? Are folks generally alright with laying ANG status on fairly public places that tend to attract crowds?
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: PolaroidNinja on November 28, 2011, 10:28:39 PM
I don't think anyone has specified that ANG couldn't be a highly public place - but really an obscure location is probably better, because not everything that hangs out there is human, and if they're going to meet there it might be best if they didn't have to veil themselves to do so.

What about a local hobby/gaming shop? Sorta a different take on the book store tho.

An old style theater could work, or perhaps a person's house/mansion?

I think it also depends on what you want out of your ANG. If you want a "local hang out for the supernatural" then you're really pidgin-holing yourself into a place people can get food/drink.

If you just want a place to meet for formal meetings and Accord neutral business, any place could work really - a rental hall, all the rooms in a hotel on the 13th floor, or even an upscale, members only roller/ice skating rink.

Personally, I think I like the idea of a Jamba Juice that is ANG. :D
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: Richard_Chilton on November 28, 2011, 10:38:29 PM
I agree that there has to be a private or semi private room for people (and "things") to talk openly.  It has to be somewhere that "people" can go without attracting attention (i.e. no "middle of nowhere" spots, no elementary schools, etc).  It can't be in control of any one faction (i.e. it must be "neutral" territory).

For example - Mac's bar discourages non-supernaturals types from entering - but who would see anything out of the ordinary about people entering a bar?

Those are the elements that I see as required - does anyone else feel like chiming in?

Richard
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: Silverblaze on November 29, 2011, 04:34:43 PM
I think places like Mac's is ideal. 

Some conversations had there could in theory be overheard by mortals, but it is very unlikely.

However, with things like veils and some subtle mind magic, (a constant suggestion that a certain area is boring) less ideal places would work.

Another semi optimal spot could be something like a gaming store. 

-open odd hours (vampires welcome)
-sometimes host larps (dress as you will)
-often have people inside when the general public isn't (private)
- can be neutral
-likely not in the middle of nowhere
-kids and adults all LARP (so the archive could walk in next to harry and the first thought wouldn't be ... PEDO!)

I'm not saying such a place is optimal, but it could work.
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: devonapple on November 29, 2011, 05:26:47 PM
A thought occurs: one never sees it from Harry's perspective (so this is conjecture on my part), but MacAnally's might discourage obviously mundane visitors (frat boys out slumming, a lost-looking couple, that sort of thing). It probably wouldn't be hard most of the time: not engaging with the customers at all (more Mac's style), or quietly commenting that maybe this ain't their kinda place (added to the general darkness of the place) could motivate mundanes to seek their drinkies elsewhere without being made aware of the supernatural.

I do wonder about the one stranger (a hypothetical mundane for the purposes of this line of argument) who managed to unobtrusively try out this quaint, old-fashioned bar he'd heard about, only to get the shock of his life when a car-sized Gruff walks in and starts making threats to some tiny blonde cop and a beanpole in a leather duster.
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: SunlessNick on November 30, 2011, 02:26:28 PM
Especially when the tiny blonde cop successfully tells the gruff off into leaving.

The main reason why I might think certain public areas might be declared ANT is to do with essentially declaring certain areas off-limits to proprietary claims -  essentially, we're calling this place neutral, because otherwise there's too much risk of factions fighting over it.  Given the power of faith and emotions in the Dresdenverse, I suspect a lot of places of power would actually be public landmarks, charged up by many visitors sharing an emotional context - as such, even covert clashes might pose a risk of exposure.  It would make more sense for some areas than others, but some might use the ANT clauses to forestall that.

Plus, even supernaturals can feel civic pride and want their locale's special places to be recognised as such, including by outsiders.
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: CrackedOzy on December 22, 2011, 04:49:11 AM
libraries, parks, gentlemen's clubs, saunas...

Oooh...

YOINK!
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: KOFFEYKID on December 23, 2011, 04:49:54 PM
One that I thought up for a NY game was Subways (though other transportation services would work just as well, trains and or buses). I like the idea of a neutral ground that is very common but very mobile.
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: arsieiuni on December 23, 2011, 11:55:04 PM
In my city, Birmingham, AL, there are two neutral accorded grounds that aren't bars:

The fountain at Five Points South
The circle of the fountain itself, but there is a lot of uncertainty as to how far past the fountain counts as accorded space and considering the approach is very wide and open, it's not necessarily the safest bet until you get right up to the fountain.

The Botanical Gardens
(maintained by the Summer court, but accorded as neutral space)
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: Harboe on January 03, 2012, 05:10:28 AM
In my New York campaign, the Statue of Liberty is Accorded Neutral Ground.
Obviously, the Elder Gruff showing up unveiled would raise eyebrows, but "costume party" is a far more likely reaction than "F-ing faries!" (although my players seem feel that way whenever they've been talking to faeries*).

* I've played devils in D&D, a Malkavian who was unable to speak a lie in Vampire, bargained with Wishes in D&D etc. so exact words are my specialty.
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: keyser on April 25, 2012, 04:32:00 PM
What about a restaurant?


(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg) (http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm)
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: devonapple on April 25, 2012, 05:08:11 PM
I use a Tea House/restaurant in SF's Chinatown as our ANG.
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: eri on April 25, 2012, 05:12:12 PM
I use a grove just off the cemetery for one game and an outdoors exhibit for a museum for another.
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: noclue on April 26, 2012, 04:53:23 AM
How about a Masonic Lodge?
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: Richard_Chilton on April 26, 2012, 04:55:39 AM
Do the Masonic Lodges welcome both genders? I had thought that they were one of the "fraternal only" holdouts.

Richard
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: sinker on April 26, 2012, 04:31:47 PM
Depends on the lodge and whether they're strictly Masonic, or if they're closer to Rosicrucian.
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: noclue on May 01, 2012, 05:43:14 AM
How about the Turf Club at the tracks?
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: almostsane on May 11, 2012, 12:32:41 AM
I'm thinking of making the local Gaming store as ANG in the game i'll hopefully be running (I'm having an intro/demo this weekend running the "Neutral Ground" casefile at the above mentioned gaming store. hopefully i can get a group together from it). that's assuming the group agrees ;)
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: devonapple on May 11, 2012, 03:18:21 AM
I was just thinking about this subject, and it occurred to me that part of the feasibility of MacAnally's is that (at least, as far as I know) Mac is the sole proprietor of the establishment: no staff of any sort (again, unless I forgot something). He cooks the food he serves, and pours the drinks he sells. He, and only he alone, needs to know about the supernatural and the Accords in order to run the place.

When someplace that caters to a decent number and variety of customers, it becomes necessary to employ others: wait staff, cleaning staff, possibly more than one chef. All of these folks would, by necessity, need to be Aware of the supernatural, at least in part. If it turns out to be some supernaturally-adjacent family, that's one thing, but all things being equal, suddenly you have a handful of randoms who need to know the particulars of the Accords and/or their latitude within them.

I opted to make my ANG a Chinatown tea house with a full kitchen and a staff that can occasionally support an ANG summit meeting, and now I'm seriously rethinking that decision.
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: jait on May 11, 2012, 03:37:04 AM
In a play-by-post game on RPOL, we've got an establishment called "Quintessence" which is locally recognized as Neutral Ground.  It houses the standard, almost cliched, nightclub on the first-floor but also has a series of meeting rooms and a mini conference-center-like facility above.  It is only locally recognized, however. They are petitioning for official recognition.  But in the mean-time, the local heavyweights are abiding by it...

Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: wolff96 on May 11, 2012, 01:33:54 PM
One of ours is a coffee shop that's actually NAMED "Neutral Grounds".  I can't resist a bad pun.

Another is a set of conference rooms on the 13th floor of a local building -- the elevator doesn't even have a button for it, but the security desk knows who does and does not get access.  (It's maintained by a minor cult of people with limited Foresight.)
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: UmbraLux on May 11, 2012, 01:34:35 PM
It hasn't come up yet, but I'm leaning towards making The Mall our DC game's ANG.
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: Sanctaphrax on May 11, 2012, 09:44:42 PM
I was just thinking about this subject, and it occurred to me that part of the feasibility of MacAnally's is that (at least, as far as I know) Mac is the sole proprietor of the establishment: no staff of any sort (again, unless I forgot something). He cooks the food he serves, and pours the drinks he sells. He, and only he alone, needs to know about the supernatural and the Accords in order to run the place.

When someplace that caters to a decent number and variety of customers, it becomes necessary to employ others: wait staff, cleaning staff, possibly more than one chef. All of these folks would, by necessity, need to be Aware of the supernatural, at least in part. If it turns out to be some supernaturally-adjacent family, that's one thing, but all things being equal, suddenly you have a handful of randoms who need to know the particulars of the Accords and/or their latitude within them.

I opted to make my ANG a Chinatown tea house with a full kitchen and a staff that can occasionally support an ANG summit meeting, and now I'm seriously rethinking that decision.

Magical constructs that can pass for humans could solve that problem.

Alternately, zombie waiters. Or mind-crushed people. Though those are kind of evil.
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: devonapple on May 11, 2012, 10:12:07 PM
Magical constructs that can pass for humans could solve that problem.

Alternately, zombie waiters. Or mind-crushed people. Though those are kind of evil.

Or summoned and disguised demons. Especially in a Chinese-themed ANG site like I'm using.
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: Jimmy on May 14, 2012, 12:24:00 AM
I run a game in Sydney, Australia. The ANG is a barber shop and occult bookstore thats actually a real place (the owner is an eccentric hippy musician who occaisonally does free music and cuts your hair). I lent it a little more size and flair and didnt even have to add much more in the way of flavour.
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: AxGrinder on May 14, 2012, 01:24:30 AM
I'd be interested in seeing a spa or exclusive resort. 

Or if people are feeling twisted how about a itty-bitty ice cream shop?  Who doesn't like a little soft-serve with their clever banter?
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: mariesb on May 14, 2012, 11:36:00 PM
We use a local gaming store as a neutral grounds.  My players have to figure out how to renew the "Contract" Winter has given the proprietor as one of the problems in a New York game.
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: Thugorp on May 19, 2012, 11:04:43 PM
Sorry, I didn't quite finish reading the third page of posts yet(and I know that is bad form) but I couldn't stand this any more. The correct acronym should be a.n.t. (accorded neutral territory) Ang, was the last air-bender. There is a large difference between an accorded neutral territory and the avatar of the spirit folk... please lets not offend him.

Also as a complete aside, why does it seem like no one remembers to put the dots(.) between the letters of acronyms and at the ends of abbreviations any more? Meh... never mind off topic.
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: Haru on May 19, 2012, 11:11:46 PM
The correct acronym should be a.n.t. (accorded neutral territory) Ang, was the last air-bender.
Actually, it is "accorded neutral grounds", not territory, so it is all good.
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: Thugorp on May 20, 2012, 12:42:50 AM
After some moderate wiki.ing I think I was wrong. Sorry internet!(No for real I am sorry).

Also,

    In a game I almost ran a bit ago, we were going to be playing in the small small small City(it wouldn't be that small for a town but for a city... it is TINY you still know half the people, and if you own a store you see and know ALL the people).
Any way, there is a place there called the, Backroom Bookstore(actually I ran it for a small while wile the owner was in jail). In any case the first floor is a trinket, weapons, and incense shop(the closest thing to an ocolt shop in the entire Upper Peninsula trust me). The middle half of the 1st.-and-a-half floor sold pipes, glass pipes, and just about every possible thing from which you could smoke any other possible thing, that you could imagine. The inner most 1/4 of that floor was the office/private hash-lounge, and the outer 1/4 was the living area of the owner.
The second floor proper(far above the two previous floors up an ornate stairway) is a very extensive used book store, full of only the most obscure and uninteresting books you don't want, plus every romance novel ever written.
The third floor, which used to be a pleasant ballroom and theater, is where the porn was sold(adult books, D.v.Ds., V.H.Ss., and mags., and cards(greeting and playing), costumes, toys, oils, poles(for striping), sex tables, and decorations).
Finally the fourth floor is completely filled from floor to ceiling with packing-peanuts(no I am not joking every square centimeter is filled by packing peanuts).
The addict I can only hope is empty.

    The owner of the shop is a crazy man, who literally and actually thinks he is a god of sex, he believes that he gets his power from the energy radiated from people's orgasms if/when they attain them using any product he sells in his store. He also, believes that the Selie court is foreclosing on his loans(this isn't true though the bank is). He does make a point, though, of mentioning, and posting on numerous signs, that he opens his store for people of all houses creeds faiths and practices, as well as those invisible people and entities, to come in and share experiences with each other, as long as they also buy something(the new manager has changed the name to the Backroom Sanctuary).

My group chose this as their A.N.G..

I am so glad I am back in Chicago now. :-)
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: semke11 on May 20, 2012, 07:58:23 PM
I am planning to make the local zoo an accorded neutral ground.

it makes more sense than it seems. it is the only easy-acessiable, easy recognisable landmark in my city.
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: Lanodantheon on May 20, 2012, 11:23:36 PM
From what Evil Hat has said, in the upcoming Paranet Papers' write up of Las Vegas, the Entire Las Vegas Strip is Accorded Neutral Ground.
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: Jimmy on May 21, 2012, 02:46:36 AM
From what Evil Hat has said, in the upcoming Paranet Papers' write up of Las Vegas, the Entire Las Vegas Strip is Accorded Neutral Ground.

Of course it is! I can think of a few good stories to play in Vegas, lots of colourful shifty characters to involve. Maybe a Summer Elvis or two....
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: Thugorp on May 21, 2012, 06:11:03 AM
It occurs to me that Restaurants fairs(such as the Bristol Renascent Fair in Bristol Wisconsin,would be great A.N.Gs..
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: yarbaur on May 23, 2012, 08:02:28 PM
In my game, we have a hotel - its a small, family run place that's rather exclusive, with private floor and conference rooms for the non-mundane guests. They have a concierge service that prides itself on the ability to provide an unusually large range of services and accommodations...
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: Orladdin on May 23, 2012, 08:43:39 PM
It occurs to me that Restaurants fairs(such as the Bristol Renascent Fair in Bristol Wisconsin,would be great A.N.Gs..

I presume you mean Renaissance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance)  Faires (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_festival)?

The downside to them as ANGs is, as mentioned for previous ideas, the huge number of staff members that would need to know about the supernatural and how to deal with it.  Though you may never know it being a patron, they all tend to have large security and service staffs.

Additionally, they're only held a limited time each year at each venue.  Would the ANG status end at the final cannon call of the faire?  Or would it persist on the off-season using the abandoned grounds?  That would be pretty interesting on fairegrounds with permanent structures!

On the other hand, many (though, notably, not Bristol) are already mostly Fantasy Festivals rather than truly renaissance reenactments.  The Wizard, Fairy, and Other quotient of the many Renaissance Festivals is quite high; such as Michigan's MRF.  No one really bats an eye.  That would work in the supernaturals' favor.

Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: Faithmage on May 24, 2012, 05:16:09 PM
In my Game the Neutral grounds from the case file became a chain when we moved city to the SF bay area. We have two known large scale companies in the know one is Monoc and the other is akin to Wolfram & Heart. It's not known which is putting up these coffee houses but they are popping up in various major cities. The ones my players go to has a second floor that is warded/veiled so that only people in the know notice the spiral staircase in the corner. It's open late hours and serves decent coffee.
Title: Re: Neutral Grounds other than Bars?
Post by: Thugorp on May 28, 2012, 06:39:54 PM
I presume you mean Renaissance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance)  Faires (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_festival)?

The downside to them as ANGs is, as mentioned for previous ideas, the huge number of staff members that would need to know about the supernatural and how to deal with it.  Though you may never know it being a patron, they all tend to have large security and service staffs.

Additionally, they're only held a limited time each year at each venue.  Would the ANG status end at the final cannon call of the faire?  Or would it persist on the off-season using the abandoned grounds?  That would be pretty interesting on fairegrounds with permanent structures!

On the other hand, many (though, notably, not Bristol) are already mostly Fantasy Festivals rather than truly renaissance reenactments.  The Wizard, Fairy, and Other quotient of the many Renaissance Festivals is quite high; such as Michigan's MRF.  No one really bats an eye.  That would work in the supernaturals' favor.


Well even at Bristol there is a fair bit of fantasy. There is a guarden of fairies(that work for the park) there are two people who often come as very convincing orks, I like to attend as a Gnome at least thrice a year, and there is also a goblin who goes fairly often and a man who dresses as an Ogre chained to a little girls(who actually seems sort of like the archive now that I think of it).

I am not sure that the staff would ever have to notice anything really. Also, as that there are perminent ren. fair structures there, I think it would be great if it was an all year round A.N.G..


FaithMage, that sounds really interesting do tell more about the companies if you would. :-)