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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: beachhead1973 on November 23, 2011, 02:11:35 AM

Title: Who would you recruit into the Einherjar?
Post by: beachhead1973 on November 23, 2011, 02:11:35 AM
Just what the title says.

Historical characters with your reasoning.

This should be interesting. Go.
Title: Re: Who would you recruit into the Einherjar?
Post by: Becq on November 23, 2011, 02:54:23 AM
Well, not Chuck Norris -- because the only way he could be defeated in battle would be if he fought against himself...

(Sorry!)
Title: Re: Who would you recruit into the Einherjar?
Post by: Becq on November 23, 2011, 03:23:18 AM
In seriousness, though, a good place to start might be the following site I found:

http://www.history.army.mil/moh.html (http://www.history.army.mil/moh.html)

Medal of Valor recipients seem like a likely pool of candidates (or at least, those of whom died in battle, as is commonly the case for Medal of Valor recipients).  Of course, this list would be limited to the last century and a half, and to Americans.
Title: Re: Who would you recruit into the Einherjar?
Post by: toturi on November 23, 2011, 04:47:01 AM
Victoria Cross holders

Gurkhas, quite recently this guy http://www.neatorama.com/2011/01/29/40-train-robbers-vs-1-gurkha/ (http://www.neatorama.com/2011/01/29/40-train-robbers-vs-1-gurkha/)
Title: Re: Who would you recruit into the Einherjar?
Post by: Kiero on November 23, 2011, 11:02:49 AM
In seriousness, though, a good place to start might be the following site I found:

http://www.history.army.mil/moh.html (http://www.history.army.mil/moh.html)

Medal of Valor recipients seem like a likely pool of candidates (or at least, those of whom died in battle, as is commonly the case for Medal of Valor recipients).  Of course, this list would be limited to the last century and a half, and to Americans.

What's dubious about the Medal of Honour is that it took a posthumous review of many after action reports to recognise the efforts of non-white soldiers throughout the various wars the US has been in over the last century and a half. There could be lots of others with either lesser awards or ignored altogether who should be up there, but for the colour of their skin.
Title: Re: Who would you recruit into the Einherjar?
Post by: beachhead1973 on November 23, 2011, 01:58:44 PM
I refer you to; www.badassoftheweek.com

also; I propose that once you've earned it, it matters little how you die. Otherwise the reward for surviving the unsurvivable is to NOT go to Valhala, which seems not in the spirit of the thing to me. Your thoughts?
Title: Re: Who would you recruit into the Einherjar?
Post by: TheMouse on November 23, 2011, 04:23:01 PM
The vast majority of Einherjar are going to be people you've never heard of. They're just brave warriors who've died in battle and were spotted by a Valkyrie. I would imagine that the World Wars alone would potentially have produced thousands and thousands of them.
Title: Re: Who would you recruit into the Einherjar?
Post by: beachhead1973 on November 24, 2011, 05:24:49 PM
raised the serious question of exactly how large the Einherjar has the potential to be...

We know they have quite the Armoury
Title: Re: Who would you recruit into the Einherjar?
Post by: ARedthorn on November 28, 2011, 02:29:25 AM
Well... resident Viking buff to the rescue, I guess...
The Vikings were fatalists... they firmly believed that fate was undeniable, in the grand scheme: not to say there was no free will... it was the broad strokes like when you were going to die that couldn't be changed... so if you were slated to die on the 5th of March next year, you were going to die on the 5th of March whether you spent every day until then jumping out of airplanes without a parachute, or lounging on your couch eating cheetos...
For them, it was an aid to courage- you may as well go into battle, and go for broke being a complete and total badass, cause if you weren't slated to die, nothing could kill you... and if you were, you may as well at least be remembered as a total badass, right?

I'd say that's the big litmus test... because the Einherjar are slated to do the exact same thing again- the battle Odin's saving them up for is a LOSING one... and he knows it, and so do they... but they're on board anyway. I think the Valkyries are interested in any warrior who has the exact kind of courage to dedicate themselves to a losing battle- whatever the reason (be it personal glory or doing what's right). Those who died in the process of pursuing (personal glory or doing what's right or whatever) have already proven themselves dedicated... and those who do so in battle are already proven warriors.

If anything, the losing side in a given battle's likely to have more candidates.... especially in a massacre like Gallipoli or Custer's Last Stand, etc.

Survivors may still stand a chance- after all, it just wasn't their time, and that's no mark against them... but they ARE less likely to be noticed by a valkyrie if they die in a hospital bed... maybe if you made a name for yourself- they might be on the lookout for Medal of Honor winners being hospitalized.

And Odin probably has way way more of them than anyone realizes.
Title: Re: Who would you recruit into the Einherjar?
Post by: Silverblaze on November 28, 2011, 06:14:10 AM
That sums it up quite nicely.  The only thing I would add is that according to their beliefs you were supposed to die with weapon in hand.  (I think that is too literal, but it could very well be the truth.)  I figure as long as they die physically fighting, then they're in.

Since we don't know if Ragarok occurred yet in the Dresden Files ( it happened in Marvel like three times....).
(click to show/hide)
That could alter the ranks of the honored dead.  The events of Ragnarok I mean.
Title: Re: Who would you recruit into the Einherjar?
Post by: martellian on November 28, 2011, 06:21:55 AM
It looks like these guys would pass Odin's litmus test: http://www.cracked.com/article_19534_5-soldiers-who-kicked-ass-in-face-death-and-logic.html
Title: Re: Who would you recruit into the Einherjar?
Post by: Richard_Chilton on November 28, 2011, 05:49:16 PM
Based on how the Vikings behaved, I'd say outlaw bikers would make good recruits.  Many love a good fight.

Richard
Title: Re: Who would you recruit into the Einherjar?
Post by: HumAnnoyd on November 28, 2011, 06:26:06 PM
All of the guys at the Alamo (William Travis, James Bowie, Davy Crockett etc.) would be a good choice I would think.  As well as the Foreign Legion chaps who fought at Cameron. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Camar%C3%B3n.

The British at Rorke's Drift also seem likely candidates. 
Title: Re: Who would you recruit into the Einherjar?
Post by: Silverblaze on November 28, 2011, 08:59:56 PM
Based on how the Vikings behaved, I'd say outlaw bikers would make good recruits.  Many love a good fight.

Richard

There are indeed some norse pagan biker clubs in existence.
Title: Re: Who would you recruit into the Einherjar?
Post by: Richard_Chilton on November 28, 2011, 10:25:56 PM
I didn't mean the pagan ones - most of them are much less violence than the "one percenters".

I'm thinking of outlaw bikers.  The type who enjoy fighting (basically over nothing).  Hell Angels, Outlaws, Bandidos - and their fellow riders.  Their love of fighting and their disregard of external authority are similar to how the Vikings lived.

Richard
Title: Re: Who would you recruit into the Einherjar?
Post by: beachhead1973 on November 29, 2011, 12:31:32 AM
I didn't mean the pagan ones - most of them are much less violence than the "one percenters".

I'm thinking of outlaw bikers.  The type who enjoy fighting (basically over nothing).  Hell Angels, Outlaws, Bandidos - and their fellow riders.  Their love of fighting and their disregard of external authority are similar to how the Vikings lived.

Richard

good points, reminds us that not every Einherjar has to be a "good guy" he/she could as easily be a Stasi wetwork specialist, Einsatzgruppen or anything else on the sith-side of the scale.
Title: Re: Who would you recruit into the Einherjar?
Post by: Silverblaze on November 29, 2011, 06:24:03 AM
I was actually referring to the 1%'s as well. 

Many einherjar would likely not be remotely good or honorable people.
Title: Re: Who would you recruit into the Einherjar?
Post by: ARedthorn on November 29, 2011, 10:10:35 AM
Define honor.

The Vikings had a code of honor- and a pretty serious one- just one we wouldn't necessarily immediately grasp. More of a dedication/bravery/braggery(was actually a virtue for them) thing. A serious look at their gods will show that- Tyr was their god's king before Odin- only lost the position because he lost his hand... which he sacrificed to bind Fenris (which he didn't need to sacrifice if he'd been willing to renege on a bet).

As for being anti-external authority... that's at least a little shaky... they had a lot of respect for their kings, as long as their kings had respect for them. The Vikings would've hated modern culture, because the leaders of today (which the vikings would've seen as anyone with wealth) weren't taking care of their warriors or their people... so yeah- anti-current-external-authority, but not anarchists- not even vaguely.

Plus I doubt the Valkyrie would care much about political agenda or personal life... they're recruiters for the final battle, not for the next big revolution. The only thing they'd care about is making sure their recruits are willing to fight in it- whatever the reason. Viking-style honor would be perfect, but not necessary... at minimum, sufficient dedication to any cause that could line up....
Title: Re: Who would you recruit into the Einherjar?
Post by: vonpenguin on November 29, 2011, 01:26:49 PM
The light brigade. That is all.
Title: Re: Who would you recruit into the Einherjar?
Post by: mdodd on November 29, 2011, 02:25:25 PM
Audie Murphy
Title: Re: Who would you recruit into the Einherjar?
Post by: Silverblaze on November 29, 2011, 04:00:57 PM
Define honor.

The Vikings had a code of honor- and a pretty serious one- just one we wouldn't necessarily immediately grasp. More of a dedication/bravery/braggery(was actually a virtue for them) thing. A serious look at their gods will show that- Tyr was their god's king before Odin- only lost the position because he lost his hand... which he sacrificed to bind Fenris (which he didn't need to sacrifice if he'd been willing to renege on a bet).

As for being anti-external authority... that's at least a little shaky... they had a lot of respect for their kings, as long as their kings had respect for them. The Vikings would've hated modern culture, because the leaders of today (which the vikings would've seen as anyone with wealth) weren't taking care of their warriors or their people... so yeah- anti-current-external-authority, but not anarchists- not even vaguely.

Plus I doubt the Valkyrie would care much about political agenda or personal life... they're recruiters for the final battle, not for the next big revolution. The only thing they'd care about is making sure their recruits are willing to fight in it- whatever the reason. Viking-style honor would be perfect, but not necessary... at minimum, sufficient dedication to any cause that could line up....

(click to show/hide)

/rant

(click to show/hide)

Honorable was me dumbing down or simplifying what took a half wall of text to say.  My bad.  In general I don't feel the need to extrapolate on my "expertise" on topics.  Honor was a poor word anyhow...99% of the planet either doesn't know what the original dictionary definition of the word nor would anyone's personal honor match.

In my opinion, most people ( you know non experts on pagan cultures of old or especially vikings ) would assume literally stabbing someone in the back or killing them in their sleep (generally preventing that warrior [the one who died in his sleep] from going to Valhalla) for a woman or trinket would be classified under unhonorable behavior.  There are plenty of theives, liars, murderers, and rapists in Valhalla as we speak.  I think these tidbits of information may be important while selecting people for that list.

So sorry I wasn't clear.

/shoots troll dead
Title: Re: Who would you recruit into the Einherjar?
Post by: ARedthorn on November 29, 2011, 10:45:40 PM
Umm... ok?

1- trying to further refine the image of Einherjar/Vikings-in-general that I was putting forward.

2- trying to contest your statement
Many einherjar would likely not be remotely good or honorable people.
as well as R_C's
I'm thinking of outlaw bikers.  The type who enjoy fighting (basically over nothing).  Hell Angels, Outlaws, Bandidos - and their fellow riders.  Their love of fighting and their disregard of external authority are similar to how the Vikings lived.
without being an arse, by giving benefit of the doubt, and then explaining myself.

3- so much for that. If I came across troll-ish, or like I was talking down to you... sorry. I point to your own complaints about the written word as possible culprits.

Simple form:
Love of fighting? Good. By itself? Not good enough.
Disregard of external authority? Not a deal-breaker, but not really in-character either.
Complete lack of Honor? Definitely a deal-breaker. They have to be driven by something important enough they'd be willing to die repeatedly pursuing a fight they knew they were going to lose...
Lack of 'Goodness'? Probably ok.

Copy?
Title: Re: Who would you recruit into the Einherjar?
Post by: Becq on November 30, 2011, 02:46:06 AM
While I haven't studied the subject, I did a bit of looking and found some information from the Prose Edda which seems to qualify as a primary source (written around 1220).  In any case, according to it, "all those who fall in battle are [Odin's] adopted sons" and are known as Einherjar.  This includes "all those men that have fallen in battle since the beginning of the world".

So if you go by that, then the only requirement is that you must die in battle.  Depending on interpretation, this might require the candidate to die fighting (because if they were fleeing or were a noncombatant, then they might not themselves be "in battle" despite dying on a battlefield due to a battle).  No requirement for skill, or overt levels of heroism, cultural background, etc.  (There is mention of oaths sworn to Odin, so I assume there's an opt-out clause for those who choose not to join up, which might weed out those who don't like to fight enough that they want to continue fighting until the end of the world.)

I guess it depends on how you define the Einherjar at your table.
Title: Re: Who would you recruit into the Einherjar?
Post by: beachhead1973 on December 03, 2011, 04:07:14 AM
Audie Murphy

Bingo, I agree completely.

I'll rep my country's answer to the say question; Tommy Prince