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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: DFJunkie on October 04, 2011, 02:36:41 PM

Title: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: DFJunkie on October 04, 2011, 02:36:41 PM
I've been thinking of instituting something like this for characters like Liches from D&D or the Ten Who Were Taken from the Black Company novels: characters who may or may not be hard to hurt but are almost impossible to actually kill.

Cost would be 8.  It would have a stacked catch, just like physical immunity, but the catch would also consider the means by which the character "recovers" from being Taken Out.  I am thinking that, should the character recover automatically that will be +0 (eg. a Lich or one of the Immortals from Highlander), a creature who requires outside effort to recover would get a +2 price break.

So, for those who are familiar with the Black Company, the Dominator (an immortal magical tyrant, not a sports drink) would pay 6 points because it protects him from everything (+0), theoretically invocation of his name would bypass his protection, and since anyone could invoke it that's worth +2, but since no one in the world knows his name and it may have been completely wiped out of existence he gets +0, also he recovers on his own.

Conversely, Ducan MacLeod would pay either 4 or 5, because anyone can get a hold of a chopping implement (+2) plenty of people seem aware of Immortals ability to recover from any wound save decapitation, so that's either +1 or +2, and he gets better without any outside intervention, so +0 there.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 04, 2011, 04:44:36 PM
Seems like rather a high price, given that this power does nothing unless you get taken out. I think that Living Dead is a better comparison than Physical Immunity.
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: devonapple on October 04, 2011, 05:06:13 PM
Heck, Wizard's Constitution helps you get over most everything, given time.
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: Tedronai on October 04, 2011, 05:08:27 PM
I'm assuming it also includes (upgraded) versions of the trappings of Mythic Recovery, in which case, it's probably in the right ballpark.
Perhaps 1/scene recover a moderate physical consequence, 2/scene recover a minor physical consequence, instead of the bland, predictable 4/scene minor physical consequence.
And, of course, explicitly allow the recovery of extreme physical consequences by the end of the scene.
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: devonapple on October 04, 2011, 05:10:11 PM
Quote from: Tedronai on October 04, 2011, 05:08:27 PM
And, of course, explicitly allow the recovery of extreme physical consequences by the end of the scene.

I get the impression Extreme Consequences are sacrosanct and need to generally be outside of any supernatural recovery mechanism.
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: Tedronai on October 04, 2011, 05:18:48 PM
To put this power in the same range as Physical Immunity, which obviates the need to take such consequences in the first place, this power really does need to be able to allow their near-immediate recovery.
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: computerking on October 04, 2011, 06:11:03 PM
I had suggested a power that allowed you to heal all non-extreme physical consequences for a fate point once a scene, but at the cost of filling your Mental and Physical stress tracks, but I think the version I made should cost less than the 8 I had suggested for it. (Perhaps -6)
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: ARedthorn on October 04, 2011, 06:35:29 PM
Couldn't you just put it on the sheet as Physical Immunity and change the flavor? Keep the rules, but describe it as instant healing instead of ignored damage.
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: sinker on October 04, 2011, 06:39:39 PM
I think the concept is better served by some form of recovery. I mean, I'm not sure about some of the other examples, but the immortals from highlander took wounds (and were hindered by those wounds) like anyone else. Now that I'm thinking about it maybe even recovery is poor for that example. They didn't seem to heal much faster either. It was just one of those if they died, they woke up perfectly healed later.

I think I'm with Sanctaphrax and Devonapple on this one. It seems like it's own sort of "Can't die from a take out unless the catch is met" sort of thing.
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: devonapple on October 04, 2011, 06:58:24 PM
Quote from: sinker on October 04, 2011, 06:39:39 PM
I think the concept is better served by some form of recovery. I mean, I'm not sure about some of the other examples, but the immortals from highlander took wounds (and were hindered by those wounds) like anyone else.

And the Kurgen had a scar across his neck which he bore to his dying day. Whether that is a Consequence or not can be debated.

Quote from: computerking on October 04, 2011, 06:11:03 PM
I had suggested a power that allowed you to heal all non-extreme physical consequences for a fate point once a scene, but at the cost of filling your Mental and Physical stress tracks, but I think the version I made should cost less than the 8 I had suggested for it. (Perhaps -6)

Filling up Stress Tracks is certainly a risk in the middle of a Scene, but Stress is otherwise an incredibly cheap resource, and I fear that such a power is too open for abuse.
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: EldritchFire on October 04, 2011, 08:24:34 PM
Quote from: DFJunkie on October 04, 2011, 02:36:41 PM
I've been thinking of instituting something like this for characters like Liches from D&D or the Ten Who Were Taken from the Black Company novels: characters who may or may not be hard to hurt but are almost impossible to actually kill.

Cost would be 8.  It would have a stacked catch, just like physical immunity, but the catch would also consider the means by which the character "recovers" from being Taken Out.  I am thinking that, should the character recover automatically that will be +0 (eg. a Lich or one of the Immortals from Highlander), a creature who requires outside effort to recover would get a +2 price break.

So, for those who are familiar with the Black Company, the Dominator (an immortal magical tyrant, not a sports drink) would pay 6 points because it protects him from everything (+0), theoretically invocation of his name would bypass his protection, and since anyone could invoke it that's worth +2, but since no one in the world knows his name and it may have been completely wiped out of existence he gets +0, also he recovers on his own.

Conversely, Ducan MacLeod would pay either 4 or 5, because anyone can get a hold of a chopping implement (+2) plenty of people seem aware of Immortals ability to recover from any wound save decapitation, so that's either +1 or +2, and he gets better without any outside intervention, so +0 there.

Thoughts?

To me, this sounds more like the negotiating being taken out. You said it yourself, not any more resistant to stress. Take an aspect to give you some bargaining room, and call it a day.

Heck, it could be part of your concession: after you take a consequence, concede and say you're left for dead. As I said above, have an aspect you can invoke to help sell it when needed.

Just my [-2].

-EF
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: Silverblaze on October 04, 2011, 08:27:21 PM
Why not just reflavor Physical Immunity to regenerate damage that fast?
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: Haru on October 04, 2011, 08:47:19 PM
Quote from: Sanctaphrax on October 04, 2011, 04:44:36 PM
Seems like rather a high price, given that this power does nothing unless you get taken out. I think that Living Dead is a better comparison than Physical Immunity.
I think so too, especially since Liches are already undead, so it would fit perfectly. And Mystic Recovery lets you recover from pretty much anything else.

Quote
characters who may or may not be hard to hurt but are almost impossible to actually kill.
from Living dead:
Quote
Death is a Nuisance. Unless wholly destroyed
or killed by special means, you’re already
dead, and that doesn’t seem to have fazed
you much. No “death” result is ever permanent
unless special means are used (usually as
determined by your creature type).

Isn't that exactly what you want? Insert whatever means you have in mind for killing the Liches permanently and you're good to go.
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: Tedronai on October 05, 2011, 01:56:13 AM
Then the question becomes the appropriate cost of that trapping's effects when divorced from the others and the fluff of being undead (so as to make the effect available to living types).
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: Richard_Chilton on October 05, 2011, 05:35:18 AM
The wizards of the Black Company series are very different from the ones in Dresden.
Spoilers for The Black Company:
(click to show/hide)
Maybe the best way of handling people like that is kind of a reverse Death Curse.  Say that when they are near death they instinctively use their powers to heal themselves, or at least preserve themselves.  Not so that they can keep fighting but so they can survive.  Yes, that is a bit self centred, but none of the Taken struck me as beings that would die for a cause.

It would need to be cast unconsciously, maybe...
Sponsored Magic: The WILL to Survive
When faced with death you can cast Thaumaturgy, incurring debts, to keep yourself alive.  Not alive and functioning and maybe not even alive and well.  Indeed, you'll be in such bad shape that odds are others will think you're dead (i.e. Taken Out with fatal consequences).  It will take you a long time to recover fully - every debt taken to survive adds X time to your recovery - but you will be back because you Refuse To Accept Death.

And you could flesh out this power - say that using it allows the person to take extra consequences that will take longer than normal to buy off.  Say upping the recovery time to the level above what it normal takes (mild recovers as moderate, etc) or something like.

Call it a -1 refresh power because it's useful but only in a very limited set of circumstances (i.e. when you're being defeated) and say that you can only take it if you have both Evocation and Thaumaturgy.  Heck, you might want to restrict it to those who have at least the starting Wizard 'musts' because lesser talents lack the ability to dig this deep when needed.


Green Ronin did a D20 type game based on the Black Company setting and you might want to mine that for inspiration on Taken level wizards.

Richard
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: DFJunkie on October 05, 2011, 12:55:27 PM
Quote
The wizards of the Black Company series are very different from the ones in Dresden.
I'm well aware of that, but I like the narrative device of the Dominator as a looming threat that may be temporarily contained but never truly ended.  The mechanics are immaterial, the point is to make an enemy for whom death is merely a momentary inconvenience.

Sanctaphrax and Tedronai are right, it is overpriced at 8 refresh.  Living Dead had occurred to me, and maybe is a better starting point, to whit: what is the appropriate price increase to remove the "you can't recover from consequences" trapping as well as the "dead is scary" trapping?  Maybe a total cost of +3, +4 if the process for destroying the critter is really annoying, and +5 it it's essentially impossible?
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: Richard_Chilton on October 05, 2011, 02:54:24 PM
It's just that I'm not sure if living dead fits them...
Spoiler for later in the Black Company series - say book 5 or 6.
(click to show/hide)

Richard
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: computerking on October 05, 2011, 03:00:47 PM
I think someone was working on or proposed a custom power a lot like Living Dead called Undying. You might want to search for it.
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: polkaneverdies on October 05, 2011, 05:25:28 PM
Iirc the superghouls just have mythic recovery and are barely slowed down by being chopped into bits. As long as you aren't attaching massive trauma to the catch mythic recovery would probably handle it.
My apologies if this was already said, I have somehow never managed to read "the black company series" so I was skimming to avoid spoilers.
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 05, 2011, 06:52:26 PM
There have been many attempts at immortality powers. Give me a moment, I'll find some.

For what it's worth, I'd probably charge 1 refresh for the "can't die without special circumstances" thing alone. It's not like GMs are usually keen to kill off players anyway.
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: Richard_Chilton on October 05, 2011, 07:10:08 PM
Quote from: polkaneverdies on October 05, 2011, 05:25:28 PM
Iirc the superghouls just have mythic recovery and are barely slowed down by being chopped into bits. As long as you aren't attaching massive trauma to the catch mythic recovery would probably handle it.
My apologies if this was already said, I have somehow never managed to read "the black company series" so I was skimming to avoid spoilers.

The difference between the superghouls and the Taken is that the Taken weren't getting up to continue the fight - they (and other powerful wizards) were just staying alive when something should have killed them.  Often they needed allies or other supporters to carry them from the field - and even when someone knew that they had these "stay alive" powers it was hard for normal people to kill them.

And when one of them went down, it would be months (or years) before that wizard recovered enough to be a factor again.  Often they needed help to recover - their powers could keep them alive and limping along but they needed additional powers to actually recover.  And yes, since we are talking about selfish, mostly evil, beings their "allies" would sometimes nurse them just enough to keep them around but not enough to heal them - at least not until they were needed.  Or the "allies" would let (or help) one of them die.  No, there's not a lot of love among powerful wizards in that series.

And if you haven't read the series then you might want to.  Harry Dresden read it and enjoyed it - the proof's in the short story "Day Off".

Richard
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 05, 2011, 07:10:56 PM
[-0] Lesser Immortality: You do not need to eat or drink and do not excrete wastes. If you possess ‘Hunger Dependency’ you must still satisfy it as normal.

[-3] Immortality: As lesser Immortality in addition you cease to age and remain permanently at the age of acquiring this ability (EX: A man in his mid-twenties will always look like he‘s in his mid-twenties even two thousands years later), and cannot be aged magically. You are also immune to all poisons and diseases, both magical and mundane,  and do not need to breath.

http://vinlandsolutions.site11.com/Products/DFRPG/SamplePowers/Deathless.html (http://vinlandsolutions.site11.com/Products/DFRPG/SamplePowers/Deathless.html)
http://vinlandsolutions.site11.com/Products/DFRPG/SamplePowers/ImmortalNature.html (http://vinlandsolutions.site11.com/Products/DFRPG/SamplePowers/ImmortalNature.html)

[-3] Living Nightmare: an infernal is immune to most permanent effects. This provides no defense against actual attacks but no result can be permanent except banishment or imprisonment. Unless banished or imprisoned, an infernal will eventually revert to their true form and full health (though for extreme results, it might take a long time).
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: DFJunkie on October 05, 2011, 07:34:46 PM
I was just using the Taken/Dominator as an example, the being in question isn't going to be a mortal wizard. 

I think Living Nightmare suits my purposes and the price looks about right.
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: polkaneverdies on October 05, 2011, 10:17:18 PM
In that case belial666's  character Elena in Enduring the Apocalypse has a custom power called undying that might be appropriate. I can post a link later unless somebody beats me too it.
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: computerking on October 06, 2011, 09:37:10 PM
Just re-read the description of Uber-Ghouls in Our World.
Quote from: OW59
Unkillable by almost any means. or more accurately, you can kill them, but it tends not to stick with these guys.

And they only have Mythic Recovery and Inhuman Toughness. Maybe a good High Concept that establishes you as nearly unkillable (Undying Scion of Hermes, Eternal Guardian of Atlantis, etc) can be all you need to negotiate a Killer Takeout as a temporary setback.
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 07, 2011, 01:22:08 AM
True. But Recovery has a catch, and it doesn't really provide plot armour. Then again, PCs rarely lack for plot armour.
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: The Mighty Buzzard on October 07, 2011, 05:54:34 AM
Quote from: Sanctaphrax on October 07, 2011, 01:22:08 AM
Then again, PCs rarely lack for plot armour.

See what you did, now I'm going to have to kill off a PC in the next session or two.
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: Silverblaze on October 07, 2011, 12:03:57 PM
Quote from: The Mighty Buzzard on October 07, 2011, 05:54:34 AM
See what you did, now I'm going to have to kill off a PC in the next session or two.

I'm pretty sure, you're my hero.  I was thinking almost the same thing.

"You can't possibly kill this."

...

"Watch me!" ;D
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: Tsunami on October 08, 2011, 02:38:43 PM
Quote from: polkaneverdies on October 05, 2011, 10:17:18 PM
In that case belial666's  character Elena in Enduring the Apocalypse has a custom power called undying that might be appropriate. I can post a link later unless somebody beats me too it.

Yep, he took Living Dead and chopped off all the effects other than No "death" result is ever permanent

So lets take a look at the Trappings of Living Dead

Living Dead [–1]
Description: You’re dead, but you keep walking around. It’s kind of gross.
Musts: You’ve got to be dead.
Effects:
Corpse Body.
Your body is a corpse. is means that you cannot recover from consequences with time, because your body does not regenerate. Any physical consequences you suffer are  permanent  until  you  take  some  kind  of effort to remove them (know any good taxidermists?) or seek supernatural assistance to reconstruct your body.
Ok, this is a disadvantage that is probably worth a +1 bonus. Chop this off the Power and the cost rises to -2

Death is a Nuisance.
Unless wholly destroyed or  killed  by  special  means,  you’re  already dead,  and  that  doesn’t  seem  to  have  fazed you  much.  No “death”  result  is  ever  permanent unless special means are used (usually as determined by your creature type).
This is the Major advantage of the Power, we wan't to keep that.

Dude!  You’re  Dead!
And  that’s  pretty  scary to a lot of people. When dealing with folks unaccustomed  to  the  walking  dead  (and that’s  most “regular”  people),  gain  a  +1  on Intimidation.  The  downside?  Take  a  –1 penalty  on  nearly  every  other  social  skill (except  Deceit).  For  every  level  of  physical consequence  you’ve  sustained,  increase  the penalty/bonus  by  –1/+1.  That  said,  the effect is short-lived with any one target—as they  become  accustomed  to  a  reality  where the dead walk, they eventually become inured to it as an additional reason to be terrified.
This trapping has some Positive as well as Negative effects. Negative effects dominate it somewhat however. Let's count this as another +1 Bonus. We're going to chop this one off as well, increasing the power cost to -3.


That Leaves us with a Power that provides the following Trapping

Death is a Nuisance.
Unless wholly destroyed or  killed  by  special  means,  you’re  already dead,  and  that  doesn’t  seem  to  have  fazed you  much.  No “death”  result  is  ever  permanent unless special means are used (usually as determined by your creature type).

for a cost of -3

To Create a Trans-Mythic Recovery Power I'd probably just add a trapping like that to Mythic recovery, and make it vulnerable to the catch. It simply call it:

Recover from Death
Unless wholly destroyed, killed by special means, or taken out by an attack that meets your catch, you’re never going to die.  No “death”  result  is  ever  permanent unless the catch is satisfied when it is created, or the special means are used. (Choose the special means when taking this power)

In conjunction with Mythic recovery i'd probably charge only -2 for it. That would bring it in line with Physical Immunity.

Recovery from extreme consequences would be unaffected, those are plot consequences more that anything and should still be there.

So to sum up.

Trans-Mythic Recovery -8
Like Mythic Recovery
Additional Trapping
Recover from Death
Unless wholly destroyed, killed by special means, or taken out by an attack that meets your catch, you’re never going to die.  No “death”  result  is  ever  permanent unless the catch is satisfied when it is created, or the special means are used. (Choose the special means when taking this power)
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 08, 2011, 07:00:09 PM
Disagree with that breakdown.

Dude, You're Dead! is at least as good as it is bad in my opinion.

And the healing drawback isn't really worth a whole refresh, I think.

But Belial removed the "wholly destroyed or killed by special means" part. That should probably cost a little extra.
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: Tsunami on October 08, 2011, 08:25:00 PM
Quote from: Sanctaphrax on October 08, 2011, 07:00:09 PM
Disagree with that breakdown.

Dude, You're Dead! is at least as good as it is bad in my opinion.
Yeah, i thought about that. It's a bit of a judgement call. Could be either +/-0 or +1

Quote from: Sanctaphrax on October 08, 2011, 07:00:09 PM
And the healing drawback isn't really worth a whole refresh, I think.
There I disagree, not being able to heal unless some special measure is taken... I think that's worth at least 1 refresh.

Quote from: Sanctaphrax on October 08, 2011, 07:00:09 PM
But Belial removed the "wholly destroyed or killed by special means" part. That should probably cost a little extra.
Yupp, that's definitely worth something.

Anyhow, the end result remains the same. If you count "Dude you're dead" as +/-0 and keep the "wholly destroyed or killed by special means" part, then the cost comes out as -2, just as with my breakdown. And then the Trans-Mythic Recovery still ends up being at -8.
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: Tedronai on October 08, 2011, 09:45:48 PM
And yet this 'trans-mythic recovery' still ends up being objectively worse than Physical Immunity, which would seem to indicate that it should cost less.
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: zenten on October 09, 2011, 01:56:26 AM
I don't think there should be a "trans mythic recovery".  I think it should be a separate power, that is susceptible to the Catch (even Captain Jack Harkness found something that made his power go away).
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: Silverblaze on October 09, 2011, 02:27:15 AM
I reiterate: Rename Physical Immunity. 

Instantly regenerate all physical harm. 

Wolveregeneration?
Deadpoolrecovery?
Dr. Curt Conners Factor?

Name it whatever.

Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 09, 2011, 02:57:59 AM
Physical Immunity is underpriced.

Bear in mind that Mythic Toughness and Recovery together costs as much as PI x 1.5 while providing less protection than it.

The fact that Trans-Mythic recovery also runs into that problem is not a stroke against it.

PS: How big a deal do people make the special justification for Living Dead's recovery? Would people let someone take a Recovery power and use that? What if they just make a Craftsmanship or Scholarship check? What if they use Thaumaturgy?
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: Tsunami on October 09, 2011, 07:13:18 AM
Quote from: Sanctaphrax on October 09, 2011, 02:57:59 AM
PS: How big a deal do people make the special justification for Living Dead's recovery? Would people let someone take a Recovery power and use that? What if they just make a Craftsmanship or Scholarship check? What if they use Thaumaturgy?
The Only Creatures we have seen so far that are relevant to this question are Black Court Vampires and Zombies.
Zombies don't recover on their own at all, they are disposable minions. They can probably be repaired by pouring more energy into them summoning new ectoplasm.

I'd say BC Vamps recover by drinking blood. Meaning they recover by using the Healing Effect of Blood Drinker.

Recovery Powers would be reduced in effectiveness i think. Let a Living Dead with Inhuman Recovery recover like a normal person without any powers. Though this is a bit questionable.
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: sinker on October 09, 2011, 07:30:35 AM
Quote from: Sanctaphrax on October 09, 2011, 02:57:59 AM
What if they just make a Craftsmanship or Scholarship check?

This seems in line with what the power says when it mentions taxidermists.
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 09, 2011, 08:07:26 PM
So would Living Dead's healing drawback still be relevant for someone with Superb Craftsmanship or a base Thaumaturgy complexity of 8?

Or could they just patch themselves up whenever they felt inclined?
Title: Re: Recovery Version of Phys Immunity: Help Me Price It
Post by: Tsunami on October 09, 2011, 09:26:24 PM
Quote from: Sanctaphrax on October 09, 2011, 08:07:26 PM
So would Living Dead's healing drawback still be relevant for someone with Superb Craftsmanship or a base Thaumaturgy complexity of 8?

Or could they just patch themselves up whenever they felt inclined?

I'd probably have spend a scene, in which they can't do anything else, per consequence to heal. That's in addition to how long it takes to heal anyways.

So, Mild consequence: Spend a scene patching up and your're good to go.
Moderate: wait a Session... gathering supplies or however you want to justify the normal healing period. Then spend a scene to patch yourself up.
and so on.

Plus, I'd probably only let them patch up Mild consequences on their own. Moderates and Severes would require someone else to do it, or at the very least to assist in doing it.

But honestly, i'd be very wary about a PC wanting to play a Living Dead if it was my Game. So it wouldn't come up that much.
And NSC generally recover off screen, so it's not really important how they do it.