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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => DFRPG Resource Collection => Topic started by: Runhide on November 29, 2010, 05:35:36 PM

Title: Item math it hurts my head
Post by: Runhide on November 29, 2010, 05:35:36 PM
 In another post someone created this character and I have no idea how they got 9 power and 3 frequency for the final items.  What stats or skills add up to make this?  What is the math for it? 

Skills:

Superb (+5):
Lore

Great (+4):
Conviction
Discipline

Good (+3):
Resources
Craftsmanship
Scholarship

Fair (+2):
Presence
Alertness
Endurance
Weapons

Average (+1):
Guns
Contacts
Stealth
Deceit
Empathy

Powers:
-3 Thaumaturgy (Speicialist: Crafting)
-1 The Sight
-0 Soulgaze
-0 Wizard's Constitution
-3 Refinement (1 Crafting Refinement, 2 focus items refinement)

Stunts:
-1 2 Seconds into the future (Lore to defend against physical attacks)

Current Refresh: 2 (10-8)

Crafting:

Items have 9 power, 3 frequency
Speicalist: +1 frequency
Refinement: +1 Power and Frequency
Focus Item: +2 Power and +1 Frequency

Items: 6 Focus Items

-3 Chisel of Enchanting: +2 Power and +1 Frequency (Crafting)
-0.5 Force Ring: Weapon:9 Attack, 3 uses
-0.5 Ring of Protection: Block 9 or Armor:4, 3 uses
-2 4 open Potion slots, 9 shifts, 3 uses each.

Title: Re: Item math it hurts my head
Post by: sinker on November 29, 2010, 05:42:43 PM
Seems to me they miscounted, or maybe changed something and forgot. Should be 8 power, 4 frequency.
Title: Re: Item math it hurts my head
Post by: Runhide on November 29, 2010, 05:48:32 PM
Seems to me they miscounted, or maybe changed something and forgot. Should be 8 power, 4 frequency.

Um thanks for the reply but what + what = 8 power and 4 frequency?  what is the math?
Title: Re: Item math it hurts my head
Post by: sinker on November 29, 2010, 05:56:09 PM
Superb lore = 5 power
+ Refinement = 1 power
+ Focus Item = 2 power
= 8 power

Base 1 uses per session
+ Refinement = 1 use
+ Specialization = 1 use
+ Focus item = 1 use
= 4 uses

Refinements can give you two specializations (Which he has split between power and frequency) and the focus item seems legit.

Although I just thought of something. Can you have two specializations in the same thing? His original specialization is in crafting frequency and then he gains a specialization in crafting frequency through refinement.
Title: Re: Item math it hurts my head
Post by: Wilder on November 29, 2010, 06:02:58 PM
Math Writen as an equation

(Lore +5)+(Focus+2)+(Refinement +1)= Power of 8
(Base 1)+(Specialization+1)+(Focus+1)+(Refinement+1)= Frequency of 4

So that should be the base items using one item slot. Obviously items using more than one slot could differ +1 on either for each additional slot used.
Title: Re: Item math it hurts my head
Post by: deathwombat on November 30, 2010, 02:00:50 AM
Math bad!!! Arrrrrr!!!
Title: Re: Item math it hurts my head
Post by: Falar on November 30, 2010, 11:22:04 AM
He probably thought he could shift the base use into power since he had three already from other sources. Other than that, it's pretty sound.
Title: Re: Item math it hurts my head
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 01, 2010, 04:31:35 AM
Why is this on the Resource Collection board?
Title: Re: Item math it hurts my head
Post by: Kaldra on December 01, 2010, 07:45:07 AM
as an example maybe?
Title: Re: Item math it hurts my head
Post by: Tbora on December 18, 2010, 04:59:42 AM
Why is this on the Resource Collection board?

This.

I don't see the value of this that it is worth keeping in the Resource Board.
Title: Re: Item math it hurts my head
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 18, 2010, 05:43:31 AM
I'm planning to make a DFRPG Player's Guide thread with that will make this thread and several others unecessary. But what with GMing, the new wiki, NPC requests, and having a life outside of this game, I haven't gotten around to it.
Title: Re: Item math it hurts my head
Post by: citadel97501 on April 22, 2011, 09:59:13 AM
Sorry about the thread-o-mancy, but I thought I would help out, as this is actually pretty hard to figure out. 

Relevant Skills
Lore: 5

Relevant Powers
Thaumaturgy: 3 refresh
2 Enchanted Item Slots (Split the bonus, it was done on Carlos Ramirez)
1 Focus Slot
Crafting: Power +1

Refinements: 2 refresh
2 Focus Items Slots
1 to Crafting: Power, 1 to Crafting: Frequency

Foci: Slots 3
(There have been a number of threads on how legitimate it is to use 2 separate foci.)
Altar: Crafting Power +2
Athame: Crafting Frequency +1

Totals                          Power              Frequency
2 enchanted items:         9                      3
Title: Re: Item math it hurts my head
Post by: Roxy Rocket on April 22, 2011, 10:10:48 PM
I like this kind of necromancy Citadel. Since this is the reference board, should we maybe like, reply with a formula for magic items? Paragraphs are nice but sometimes a girl needs a big fat equation.

Dibs on drawing the squiggles and hieroglyphics! Or a excel sheet. Are we allowed to link those on here?

(This splotch reserved for a napkin with a formula on it.)
Title: Re: Item math it hurts my head
Post by: Sanctaphrax on April 23, 2011, 03:29:05 AM
Just out of curiosity, what's so hard about this?

Lore + specializations + foci.

No excel sheet needed.
Title: Re: Item math it hurts my head
Post by: Roxy Rocket on April 23, 2011, 04:48:51 AM
I guess reading the section is confusing the first time you translate it.

So you need to know your lore. You need to know your bonus focus/enchanted item slots from your powers and your total refinements. Then work out your specialization and focus pyramids for thaumaturgy and where your crafting specializations fall in those pyramids. Any refinement not used up in refinements and foci translate into enchanted item slots.

So then you have your item slots, minus any you decide are potion slots and to make an item. Decide if the item is can be traded and subtract more power to increase frequency. Then add your specialization and focus bonuses to power and frequency and devote extra item slots to increase frequency and power.

Or if it's a potion you can't add frequency with item slots and don't subtract to trade it. Plus you can use aspects with them and can't use mental stress to use them beyond the original charges. And there are the restrictions for power based on your lore and minimum size of the item based on how many slots it takes up. Oh and if it's a potion you might leave it blank and brew it up on the fly mid session with a lore check.

Then you need to determine the effect of the item with all the usual rules for the spell using thaumaturgy or evocation and rules about using the item and when the effect triggers.

Yeah, I think that could use a flow chart or something. One with magical squiggles!

Title: Re: Item math it hurts my head
Post by: devonapple on April 23, 2011, 04:08:12 PM
Just out of curiosity, what's so hard about this?

Lore + specializations + foci.

No excel sheet needed.

::shrug:: Some people don't learn that way. They need a chart or graphic to visualize where things are going.
Title: Re: Item math it hurts my head
Post by: MadAlchemist on February 28, 2013, 01:31:42 AM
I don't think anyone else mentioned this but Focus items specifically can not boost crafting. Y.S. pg. 280, second column, just above the Potions entry. 
Title: Re: Item math it hurts my head
Post by: Deadmanwalking on February 28, 2013, 02:12:44 AM
First of all: thou hast violated the Fifth Law!

Second: The bit you refer to is explicitly only about Focus Item Crafting. You can't have a Focus Item that makes crafting other Focus Items easier. Having one that boosts the Strength or Frequency of Enchanted Items is totally allowed. Re-read the page you cite if you don't believe me.
Title: Re: Item math it hurts my head
Post by: Hick Jr on February 28, 2013, 02:39:10 AM
No bootstrap engines.


And Resource threads are arguably ineligible for Forum Fifth Law violations.
Title: Re: Item math it hurts my head
Post by: Mrmdubois on February 28, 2013, 10:27:17 AM
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,36777.0.html

Let's just nip this in the bud.  ;D
Title: Re: Item math it hurts my head
Post by: Deadmanwalking on February 28, 2013, 10:41:21 AM
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,36777.0.html

Let's just nip this in the bud.  ;D

Okay, I've gotta admit, I laughed aloud there.  :)
Title: Re: Item math it hurts my head
Post by: MadAlchemist on March 02, 2013, 07:27:13 AM
Good catch Deadman... I'm apparently a bit rusty.
Title: Re: Item math it hurts my head
Post by: Deadmanwalking on March 02, 2013, 07:52:11 AM
Good catch Deadman... I'm apparently a bit rusty.

No worries, it happens to the best of us.
Title: Re: Item math it hurts my head
Post by: Troy on May 11, 2013, 06:24:39 PM
As Items of Power are different from Enchanted Items that wizards and other spellcasters make, why is there no Master List of Enchanted Items?

I feel like something like that would help alleviate this confusion about item math. You'd have the item, what it does, how it works and then explain the game-math used to make it.

I know it doesn't seem hard when you say Lore + Specializations + Foci ... but the book doesn't say that. It has four pages talking about how to do this.

EDIT: Outside of this Resource board, I found this thread -- Compilation of Focus/Enhanced Items (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,18171.0.html). This is pretty much what I was talking about. So, please disregard the bulk of my post. :)