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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: CBIrish on September 12, 2010, 02:30:45 AM
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With all the posts on the Erlking and Santa Claus (which still makes me smile), I was wondering about another well known figure in Faeire - Oberon. He's often depicted as a king of the fae and obviously holds a big spot in literature thanks to the Bard, but has anyone been able to sort out where he fits in to all this ala the Dresdenverse?
I ask largely out of general curiosity, but also because in the game I'm in, I play a Winter changeling who has sworn to serve Oberon as the king of a sort of renegade/underground court (which is called the Rogue Court and also includes Puck) that is currently building its power base. I've had some conversations with the GM and I know how he's running it but I was curious if there was any established conversation on this or if anyone had any thoughts.
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You have to throw Finverra into mix too.
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With all the posts on the Erlking and Santa Claus (which still makes me smile), I was wondering about another well known figure in Faeire - Oberon. He's often depicted as a king of the fae and obviously holds a big spot in literature thanks to the Bard, but has anyone been able to sort out where he fits in to all this ala the Dresdenverse?
I ask largely out of general curiosity, but also because in the game I'm in, I play a Winter changeling who has sworn to serve Oberon as the king of a sort of renegade/underground court (which is called the Rogue Court and also includes Puck) that is currently building its power base. I've had some conversations with the GM and I know how he's running it but I was curious if there was any established conversation on this or if anyone had any thoughts.
Maybe he was king with one of the Mothers, back in the day. Or, a higher king, above those two.
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Could have been part of Autumn & Spring, 'cept now they're disposed and their power in wane...
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With all the posts on the Erlking and Santa Claus (which still makes me smile), I was wondering about another well known figure in Faeire - Oberon. He's often depicted as a king of the fae and obviously holds a big spot in literature thanks to the Bard, but has anyone been able to sort out where he fits in to all this ala the Dresdenverse?
I ask largely out of general curiosity, but also because in the game I'm in, I play a Winter changeling who has sworn to serve Oberon as the king of a sort of renegade/underground court (which is called the Rogue Court and also includes Puck) that is currently building its power base. I've had some conversations with the GM and I know how he's running it but I was curious if there was any established conversation on this or if anyone had any thoughts.
Aren't there a few theories out there, stating that Oberon is the Earlking?
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Aren't there a few theories out there, stating that Oberon is the Earlking?
Yeah buddy ... we had a couple of threads about that before. Not much came out of it though. The main problem is that we don't know enough about the Erlking at this point. All we know is that he leads the wild hunt and is the king of goblin.
I tried to do a bit of research and it didn't turn up much. Apparently the fairy stuff goes far far back into Norse mythology and Oberon may be some incarnation of Alberich. Too many writers have took up the names and stories over the years. Shakespeare, Goethe and Wagner for example. Not easy to decide.
I for one like the idea that Oberon might be the Erlking and has divided himself from Summer and his ex-wife Titania. He doesn't seem to belong to anyone now. All in all there is great potential for storytelling if it is set up like this and really cool stuff can come of it ... As Hell has no fury like a woman scorned ... ;D
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At least having all those different versions give you the liberty to craft up anything to fit your own campaign...
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At least having all those different versions give you the liberty to craft up anything to fit your own campaign...
Right. That is the beauty of it. Yet I still hope that Jim will give us a little bit more to chew on in the future. But I have the feeling that we don't have to worry too much on this front. In the meantime we can cook up our own stuff ...
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Could have been part of Autumn & Spring, 'cept now they're disposed and their power in wane...
In the game I am in Oberron is the King of Spring while the Erl King is King of Autumm. Neither of the Equinox Courts are nearly as powerful as the Solstice Courts but they can still cause a lot of trouble for PCs.
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Oberon was the first and most powerful Summer Knight. So puissant was he that he ruled alongside his Queen as an equal. Some say that he was a famous mythic figure taken up with a new name. Perhaps Gilgamesh, or clever Odysseus, or Prince Ōnamuji.
No one knows what happened exactly, but one day Oberon set down his sword and vanished as such legendary figures will do. All knights since then have been but poor, fragile replacements.
In another version of the story, Oberon was both the Summer and the Winter Knight and the Courts were joined in peace throguh the mutual love of the queens for him. But frankly this sounds a bit too much like somebody's harem fantasy, so not a lot of credence gets placed in that one.
The lesser fae are typically unhelpful on the matter, as it appears that they have been enchanted to forget.
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In another version of the story, Oberon was both the Summer and the Winter Knight and the Courts were joined in peace throguh the mutual love of the queens for him. But frankly this sounds a bit too much like somebody's harem fantasy, so not a lot of credence gets placed in that one.
Oberon was King, not Knight. Big difference, especially in the Dresden Files.
There is a thought behind it. What if Oberon had been split into the Erlking and Santa? Or they somehow recieved his power. What was once a unifying force for the Sidhe turned into the opposite natures of their Courts. May not be completely canon, but it is an interesting thought process.
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Oberon was King, not Knight. Big difference, especially in the Dresden Files.
I like how you write that with such conviction, as though anything weren't open to interpretation or a reworking of the myth. Especially in the Dresden Files. Wouldn't it be a hoot if there were no difference at all between king and knight, just nobody knows it?
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Or that the Faerie King is what happens when the same individual ends up as the Knight of both courts simultaneously. Titania's affair with Oberon is legendary thanks to Billy shakes, and his depiction of Mab is just as awe-inspiring. I *REALLY* like the idea that Oberon was a balancing factor for the Courts, and without him they choose separate Knights and war eternally instead of balancing each other.
I'd personally run it like a Dresden version of the show Cold Case--- ages ago, someone murdered Oberon, King of the Faerie Courts. Why? who wanted the Courts at war with each other? Who had the power to kill the Faerie King? Some say he is actually still alive, wandering the mortal realm, forever exiled from his beloved brides... what power on earth (or in the Nevernever) could bind such a powerful entity so?
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In one series of books by Lackey, Oberon was the missing king of the seelie and unseelie courts - the overking who ruled all before he went a wandering...
I could see Oberon being the king of both Summer and Winter - the one being who could tell both Mab and Titania the way it would be... Yes, this ignores the Mothers, but who knows? Maybe there's a book out there called Oberon had two mommies?
Richard
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I like how you write that with such conviction, as though anything weren't open to interpretation or a reworking of the myth. Especially in the Dresden Files. Wouldn't it be a hoot if there were no difference at all between king and knight, just nobody knows it?
Wouldn't it be a hoot if you were wrong? We know the Erlking and Santa are the Kings of Summer and Winter, respectively. We know both are pure Fae. The Knights are mortal Consorts, not Fae Kings.
I could see Oberon being the king of both Summer and Winter - the one being who could tell both Mab and Titania the way it would be... Yes, this ignores the Mothers, but who knows? Maybe there's a book out there called Oberon had two mommies?
Oberon, the male equivalent of the Mothers? I like it.
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I thought it was interesting that Harry himself uses a quote from A Midsummer Night's Dream, when Puck says to Oberon, "Lord, what fools these mortals be!". No mention at all about Oberon himself there, so at least there's no canon on where he fits in the Dresdenverse.
But bugger canon if you can dream up something crafty and witty to work for your world - and I like the idea enough that he was the One King who Ruled Them All. Maybe his disappearance is tied to the shattering of the Spring and Autumn courts... and finding him could be a key to having all the courts back in play.
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There are just so many versions of Oberon that you could construct him as anything.
In one version he's the king of all elves. This would seem to imply he's the Erlking, as has been mentioned.
Or, since "elf" is basically just another word for "faeries," perhaps he's the king of all faeries. This would seem to make him a terribly powerful being, indeed. Or, for a nice twist, perhaps he's not actually all that powerful, but it is one of the laws of Faerie that the Queens may not disobey him in certain instances; this makes him incredibly influential, even if it doesn't necessarily grant him god-like power directly.
Or maybe he's the version that's a beautiful being of dwarf-like stature. Maybe he was once the king of elves, also King of Spring. He was married to Titania. Then, with the fall of Spring, he lost much of his power, and the Erlking snatched up the reins. This builds a nice possible selection of conflicts.
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Or Oberon is Santa Claus, the King of Winter who got press-ganged into Christian mythology. After all, Santa's workshop is supposed to be filled with elves, right? ;)
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Except that Santa Clause is a powerful and unique brownie, IIRC (as stated in the books).
From what I've seen in a quick "search", kids seem to be a big deal to both the Erlking and Oberon. I'd be inclined to say they are both the same entity, just different points in history. Or that they are the "kings" of Winter and Summer respectively.
Though, personally they'd fit in better as part of the autumn and spring courts. Which are more of allies and harolds for the winter and summer courts
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I think that the idea of Oberon and Erlking being the Spring and Autumn Kings is pretty good and it makes a lot of sense to me. I've been working with an idea that at one time all 4 courts were relatively equal in power and then Titania decided to make a bid for power and through some crazy complex faerie scheme stole/consumed Oberon's power by sacrificing him on the Stone Table. This upset the balance of things so the Erlking was forced to yield his position and pass most of his power to Mab. However, the Spring Knight managed to escape Titania's plans and thus allowed the Erlking to keep a bit of his might and become the leader of the goblins and wyldfae. The Spring Knight's survival also provides the possibility of Oberon's eventual return; maybe he wasn't killed but just reduced to pure mortal status.
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I'd make him a former Summer lord that's now a 'Wyld fae' (no longer part of the Summer Court) after some sort of dispute with Titania (could be her former consort, if one goes with the Shakespeare idea of Oberon and Titania...)
This provides story potential, if a PC is an Emissary of Oberon or a Changeling of a faerie of his court ... all sorts of interesting (and dangerous) Faerie politics to get tangled up in. Would Winter associate with an exile of Summer? Would Oberon take it kindly if his Emissary allied with Winter for help against Summer? Or would he want to get back 'in with' Summer?