i was planning on adding this to the silly comspiracy thread in games, but its just too good.
JB has stated that Harry has not brokent the time travel law yet, and therefore he will someday.
many folks use this to assume Harry is cowl, or the gatekeeper, or mac, or fred flinstone/kang the conqueror
Duck thinks NOT
it's too easy
Lea was interested in Molly since her first appeaance, in GP. why?
Molly was the focus of PG, why? there had to be a dozex other less complex ways Mab could have played out that game.
Molly's skills are in mind control, illusions, and complex magics
Mab is very interested..i might argue obsessed..with boinking Harry. Not just making him the knight, but boinking himand making sure all of faerie knew it. Did Titania do a poro with fix, and invite 6 billion folks to watch? I think not.
and that whole 'MINE' thing..it's not buis, it's personal.
Mab was probably a human wizard at one point, whom ascended via ritual...in the far far distant past.
the scenario..Molly goofs up again, falls into a gateway, ends up in the paleolithic...
Molly is Mab.
disprove as you will...Im probably capital N U T Z - NUTZ...but the last time I made one of these wild conspricay ideas during academ's fury..i was right.
;D
We all know Molly has the hots for Harry, but that would be a really REALLY long time to wait for some action.
Also, Molly use pure human, with no fae in her blood. I don't believe it's possible to become fae either.
We all know Molly has the hots for Harry, but that would be a really REALLY long time to wait for some action.
Also, Molly use pure human, with no fae in her blood. I don't believe it's possible to become fae either.
It is possible to Become Sidhe. The Queens were mortals who used a rite of ascension (not Darkhallow, a different one) to become practical embodiments of nature.
Duck thinks NOT
Molly is Mab.
disprove as you will...Im probably capital N U T Z - NUTZ...but the last time I made one of these wild conspricay ideas during academ's fury..i was right.
;D
Molly has lied, and Mab said that the stars will fall out of the skies before she breaks her word.
Molly lying now and then going back in time and undergoing a change of state which makes her unable to lie again seems not inconceivable to me.
But it would not change that fact that she said, while Mab and therefore unable to lie, that the start would fall from the sky BEFORE Mab breaks her word.
seems not inconceivable
Before, yes. But why can't that be "before" in her personal timeline ?
Mab saying that could be referring to her personal future. Not her personal past as Molly even if that happens to be in the future of when she said it from someone else's perspective.
It is a paradox though. Molly, knowing Mab boinks Harry, decides to study rites of ascension for a few decades, study time travel (on the down-low) for a bit after to go back to the past, becomes Mab with her mom and grandmother, along and the Summer trio (in the process becoming inhuman to the point of almost evil), waits for millenia, and finally gets him on the Table for a single good time. I think it is a bit convoluted for Molly. She just needs to get him a big case of Mac's good stuff once he is back.
Molly has lied, and Mab said that the stars will fall out of the skies before she breaks her word.
Unless Mab is, well, lying about that.
-Max
(Obviously not taking this theory seriously.)
We know they used rites of ascension, but has it been confirmed that they started as mortals ?
The hags in "Welcome to the Jungle" are a long-way from human, and planning to use an ascension rite, so we can't say ascension rites are limited to only working for humans.
They started off mortal like the Erlking started off mortal, if I remember correctly.
I guess anything is possible, but thus far Jim has consistently used the formula of: ascension comes with commensurate amounts of power and constraint. As a force of nature, I don' think Mab can lie. As well the world dissemble for no other reason than atoms decided to stop attracting each other based on charge. Human, endowed with free will, seem to be the only ones with the dubious privilege of reconstructing reality to fit their own subjective whim.
They started off mortal like the Erlking started off mortal, if I remember correctly.
i was planning on adding this to the silly comspiracy thread in games, but its just too good.
JB has stated that Harry has not brokent the time travel law yet, and therefore he will someday.
many folks use this to assume Harry is cowl, or the gatekeeper, or mac, or fred flinstone/kang the conqueror
Duck thinks NOT
it's too easy
Lea was interested in Molly since her first appeaance, in GP. why?
Molly was the focus of PG, why? there had to be a dozex other less complex ways Mab could have played out that game.
Molly's skills are in mind control, illusions, and complex magics
Mab is very interested..i might argue obsessed..with boinking Harry. Not just making him the knight, but boinking himand making sure all of faerie knew it. Did Titania do a poro with fix, and invite 6 billion folks to watch? I think not.
and that whole 'MINE' thing..it's not buis, it's personal.
Mab was probably a human wizard at one point, whom ascended via ritual...in the far far distant past.
the scenario..Molly goofs up again, falls into a gateway, ends up in the paleolithic...
Molly is Mab.
disprove as you will...Im probably capital N U T Z - NUTZ...but the last time I made one of these wild conspricay ideas during academ's fury..i was right.
;D
It was a signing, and someone asked about the Darkhallow and the Erlking. Jim said Erl got to his rank from a mortal hunter to an equal of Mab with a rite of ascension, and at a later one he said close to the same thing about the Queens.
How about instead of Molly being Mab, Molly is Titania and that's why Harry hasn't see her.
It was a signing, and someone asked about the Darkhallow and the Erlking. Jim said Erl got to his rank from a mortal hunter to an equal of Mab with a rite of ascension, and at a later one he said close to the same thing about the Queens.
A rigid sense of personal honor is something you're pretty much born with or don't have at all, in my experience. It's not something Molly would acquire over time.
-Max
Molly. Is. Harry's. Mother. :o :o :o :o :o
I guess anything is possible, but thus far Jim has consistently used the formula of: ascension comes with commensurate amounts of power and constraint.
They started off mortal like the Erlking started off mortal, if I remember correctly.
Molly. Is. Harry's. Mother. :o :o :o :o :o
Everyone in the series is the same person, travelling back and forward through time, and shapeshifting accordingly.
Where do you get that from ?
We have no suggestion of constraints applying to a post-Darkhallow ascended.
Not all psychopaths are violent. :)
the lionshare are though. its a fairly descriptive term for someone who would use violence and terrible power for no other reason than using it gives them a swollen..... ego.
Which is what an unrestrained deity level power with a human mind would end up at.
That would describe most people as far as I can see. The only difference seems to be in the power held.
the lionshare are though. its a fairly descriptive term for someone who would use violence and terrible power for no other reason than using it gives them a swollen..... ego.I'm reminded of a Marvel Comics mini-series from years ago in which the good guy ends up with a glove covered in gems that represent different powers and is turned into something that makes Mab and company pale in comparison. He ends up bored out of his mind and without even thinking about what he is doing, he's out in some other galaxy juggling planets. Thing is, he started out as an above average player to begin with: he should have had some idea of the dangers.
Which is what an unrestrained deity level power with a human mind would end up at.
Yes.
so you routinely hurt other creatures simply because doing so gives you a warm fuzzy feeling? Cause if so i've got this extra long sleeved jacket I want you to try on..... make sure to hug yourself so you know if fits ;D
power corrupts. absolute power corrupts absolutely.
So if Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
What about somebeing who has the absolute power over all of creation?
So if Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
What about somebeing who has the absolute power over all of creation?
Yes.
So if Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
What about somebeing who has the absolute power over all of creation?
This is one of these things people in power like you to believe, as a way of stopping you having faith in anyoen trying to replace them for good ends.
Power attracts the corruptible.
I'm just following the saying to it's logical conclusion.
It also means that Superman must be the most evil person in the world, much more evil than even Lex Luthor.
On a different note. Jim seems to prefer the Spiderman version of that saying.
With Great Power comes Great Responsibility.
On a different note. Jim seems to prefer the Spiderman version of that saying.
With Great Power comes Great Responsibility.
I almost thought you were going to use the other Spiderman/Scarlet Spider saying:
That which doesn't kill me still hurts.
I almost thought you were going to use the other Spiderman/Scarlet Spider saying:
That which doesn't kill me still hurts.
I have a better versionAnother one would be something like: "The old
That which does not kill me, makes me stronger, or maims me for life.
It also means that Superman must be the most evil person in the world, much more evil than even Lex Luthor.
well, sir or madam, or like neuro singular they, I'd say you are atypical of the human experience.
well, sir or madam, or like neuro singular they, I'd say you are atypical of the human experience. Behavior such as what I described and you agreed to is generally considered unstable and "wrong", especially if you're applying it to human beings or non insectoid life (people don't seem to care about insects being harmed or killed cause theyre icky). Just a thought lol ;D
This is self delusion.Not self-delusion, but mass delusion. About eighty-five percent (David Hawkins, Power vs. Force) of the planet subscribe to the notion of comparative self worth, that intrinsic value is based on how we stack up against others around us: can I write a wittier post? Do I make more money? Am I better looking? Can I take him in a fight?
Frankly im of the opinion that ALL the gods were onc ehuman wizards who ascended, or their servants, and that's why the 'laws must stand as written' to prevent people from starting World Wars to become super gods.There might also be a bit of "we got ours and we're doing our best to close the club to new members."
he later emebellished in a live interview that the queens were at one time human, I believe. I dont have an actual quote here, but it's been listed several times in the threads about the queens themselves.( and allso implied for example, with JB's statment that the gruffs were all originaly changelings, as was presumably lea)
Frankly im of the opinion that ALL the gods were onc ehuman wizards who ascended, or their servants, and that's why the 'laws must stand as written' to prevent people from starting World Wars to become super gods.
I wouldn't. People enjoy destruction. They love walking in fresh snow, sitting in new cars, biting into whole apples, because the supposed untaintedness, the wholeness give them a little warm fuzzy feeling to know that they have the privilege of destroying it.
What child doesn't love winning?
Who never uses whatsoever power they have to get what they want?
Angels (fallen and otherwise) were here before humanity, before time.
I would note that we have no evidence for this beyond these entities' claims.
It would seem strange then to think that the white god in the dresdenverse is an ascended human.
Who never uses whatsoever power they have to get what they want?
So you'd rape a woman because you desire her and you are able to physically overpower her?
Cause thats where that logic leads. ::)
What evidence would you accept?
Actually if Gods are ascended humans, why does The Archangel formely known as Murphy's Mouth, call the Red King 'False Gods and Usurpers". By that definition all the Gods would be usurpers. Which would I think make Odin just a touch nervous.
That's quite a leap. Care to explicit your "logic" for those of us with shorter mental legs?
Who never uses whatsoever power they have to get what they want?
So you'd rape a woman because you desire her and you are able to physically overpower her?
Cause thats where that logic leads. ::)
That's quite a leap. Care to explicit your "logic" for those of us with shorter mental legs?
Yep, it had been posted twice and you still failed to understand.
You quoted it and so did I: Who would not use whatsoever power they had (like say physical strength) to get what they want (sex with a particular woman.)?
The word WHATSOEVER puts no limits on means. The phrase "what they want" puts no limits on certain outcomes. That means you could use any means to achieve any goal (in this instance physical strength to force sexual intercourse).Indeed.
Thats the problem with making absolute statements. I have yet to see one that fits every situation (doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but I haven't seen it)
We don't even have to use rape as an example if it makes you uncomfortable.I don't see any need to further complicate things. Let's stick with your rape example.
Yep, it had been posted twice and you still failed to understand.Who NEVER uses whatsoever power they have to get what they want? = Who wouldn't use whatsoever power they have to get what they want.
Who never uses whatsoever power they have to get what they want.
Who never uses whatsoever power they have to get what they want.
Who never uses whatsoever power they have to get what they want.
Who never uses whatsoever power they have to get what they want. Indeed. I don't see any need to further complicate things. Let's stick with your rape example.
So. How does "logic" lead you from "Who never uses..." to me being a rapist? And how would me being a rapist change the validity of my belief that people are already savage animals, that giving one power through a Darkhallow would fundamentally change their nature?
actually the only evidence we have that Angels(Fallen or otherwise) are from before time is /maybe/ Lash saying she was around for Millennium before those little upstarts men. But Lash is about as reliable as a pathological liar.
Who NEVER uses whatsoever power they have to get what they want? = Who wouldn't use whatsoever power they have to get what they want.No, it doesn't quite mean that, but let's call it close enough.
Ive already explained it to you dude.Not very well, I'm afraid.
I'm not calling you a rapist,Of course you aren't, that would be rude :D
its simply an example to show you where your "everyone acts like THIS" fails.It is a poor one. I didn't specify a kind of power to be used. Therefore excluding one particular one does not negate people using whatsoever power - that is to say any power in their possesion - to acheive their goals.
Because not everyone rapes or murders people because they can.Because many people can't. Or won't. But are , in my opinion, savage animals, psychopaths, if you will, who enjoy using power over each other. Which was the point I original made, to which you respond by rhetorically asking me if I'm a potential rapist. I'm still not sure what this "logic" you were speaking about is. Nor am I convinced that being a rapist has any bearing on claim. It seems rather like a non sequitur
Shit dude its not difficult.No, it's probably not.
No, it doesn't quite mean that, but let's call it close enough. Not very well, I'm afraid.
Of course you aren't, that would be rude :D It is a poor one. I didn't specify a kind of power to be used. Therefore excluding one particular one does not negate people using whatsoever power - that is to say any power in their possesion - to acheive their goals. Because many people can't. Or won't. But are , in my opinion, savage animals, psychopaths, if you will, who enjoy using power over each other. Which was the point I original made, to which you respond by rhetorically asking me if I'm a potential rapist. I'm still not sure what this "logic" you were speaking about is. Nor am I convinced that being a rapist has any bearing on claim. It seems rather like a non sequitur
No, it's probably not.
"Who never wears a sweater"
"Dude, you'd never wear a blue sweater, would you?"
"Um, no, what does that have to do with wearing a sweater?"
*I am, in fact, aware that not everybody choose that particular form of dress.
BP, if I'm reading correctly, I believe you're misunderstanding what Curly's saying. He's saying that th impulse IS in ALL of us (or close enough to all as not to matter). The only thing stopping most people is the probability of punishment, NOT because they "wouldn't do it" - they don't want to face what would happen if they got caught.
I disagree. There are things I won't do. Not because I'm afraid of the punishment, but because I genuinely think they're wrong.
I think many people have things they won't do on principle
I disagree. There are things I won't do. Not because I'm afraid of the punishment, but because I genuinely think they're wrong.
I think many people have things they won't do on principle
Dude. Really. Cmon. Youre making a big deal out of something thats small.
You made a blanket statement that I disproved.Without getting into accepted standards of proof, subjectivity and relativity and such, I stated an opinion which you seem to be taking issue with. You haven't disproved as far as I can see, and although I don't think it's likely that you'll disprove it, I would like to hear, in a detailed explanation, why you disagree.
People don't use any means available to accomplish any goal.The word I used was "whatsoever" which is generally defined as something in the ballpark of " one or some or every or all without specification". I did not say "all people, use every means in every case to get what they want". I have not said this, which is why you telling me that "all people use every means in every case" is not true, reads to me as a non-sequitur.
What you describe (will commit any action or use any means to accomplish any goal that strikes their fancy)
is a classic sociopath.It is. It is not, however, what I described. I was talking about psychopaths. A term which I believe has fallen into disuse among respectable psychologists, but which is usually taken to mean a person who feels little empathy for other or who enjoys making others suffer.
Someone completely without restraint. For them the simple fact that they CAN do something means they are entitled to do it, should they wish to.What a sociopath appears to be.
This is not the case for normal people (ie those without a serious psychological disorder).While I don't agree with this, it isn't relevant to what I said, so I won't comment upon it.
However according to your logic (that people always use every available method to accomplish getting what they want)That is almost, but not quite, exactly what I did not say.
Ive just described using all things in my power (simply taking it even though it doesn't belong to me and Ive no money to purchase it, and beating up the rightful owner when he tries to stop me) to get what I want (in this case a delicious klondike bar).Which is cool, but not relevant.
Are you seeing the problem now?Yes. You appear not to understand the distinction between [ANY] as found in most dictionaries and [ALL] as found in most dictionaries.
You can tell by how society generally functions and doesn't revert to state of nature. (which is kinda what youre talking about, but not really applicable if youre talking about any group of humans that exist as a society and not as individual animals beating each other with rocks for survivial.)The existence of society is to my mind indicative of the fact the people are bastards, psychopaths, disgusting savage animals - but ones who have the rationality to agree not to kill each other because they understand that most of us can dish out much more than we can take.
Not my point; I did say "most". While I should have added "much of the time", my point still stands - I would be willing to wager my income for the next five years that the majority of "bad", illegal or downright evil acts for which people refuse to indulge the impulse are avoided not out of moral/ethical principle but out of fear of punishment. The human being is not an inherently moral or ethical creature - those are constructs provided us by civilization. Some we recognize as a good thing and absorb wholeheartedly, while the rest we adopt as a matter of practicality (i.e., to avoid society's punishment).
In short, that "line" that most people won't cross is most likely NOT at as high an altitude that they would have the rest of us believe... or would have THEMSELVES believe.
Stop quibbling over small potatoes please.
I WILL ALWAYS QUIBBLE OVER NEW (SMALL) POTATOES.
(http://www.greenmarketrecipes.com/vegetables/roasted_new_potatoes_500.jpg)
Step back from the potatoes and nobody gets hurt.
I'd tend to call them middling potatoes.
*runs cackling into the wilderness*
They are small potatoes. In a large close-up. *hairy eyeball*
I WILL ALWAYS QUIBBLE OVER NEW (SMALL) POTATOES.
(http://www.greenmarketrecipes.com/vegetables/roasted_new_potatoes_500.jpg)
Step back from the potatoes and nobody gets hurt.
Peoples!
while I am no moderator, could we please take the discussion of the moral values of evil, potatoes,wether the christian god is corrupt, and wether or not rape is justifiable somewhere other then my silly little Molly is Mab thread?
I belive Ashton may have a thread for such things.
It is under the 'please close your eyes and stand still holding this target sign' thread.
The Evil Duck and Her Dalek Minions Thank You
Molly/Mab IS potatoes. Sweet, yummy, tasty, satisfying potatoes.
Does that mean that Molly's lack of nookie is now considered the great hungerpotato famine?
no just that truly is addicted to spuds.
;D
thank you for being silly again.
If we let this slip into TT turf, it could invoke the wrath of the elder mods.
or the unseelie Monster Mash?They did the Twist,
Winter's mother voiced her gloom
frozen cries rang from her tomb
whatever caused the queens amis?
"But I wrote the Unseelie Twist!"
BP, if I'm reading correctly, I believe you're misunderstanding what Curly's saying. He's saying that th impulse IS in ALL of us (or close enough to all as not to matter). The only thing stopping most people is the probability of punishment, NOT because they "wouldn't do it" - they don't want to face what would happen if they got caught.
I'd say that is equal parts true and false, depending on the person. Some actions I simply will not commit, even if I didn't get caught, because of how I would view myself afterwards.
Its more about psychological egoism to me: seeking pleasure and avoiding pain. The pain of my guilty conscience outweighs the transient pleasures partaking in numerous and sundry activities would provide me. The fact that if caught I would be in for a lot of pain is a secondary factor. The immediate thing stopping me from participating is : how would i live with myself afterwards. At least thats how I see it.
If I were making a big deal out of something small, I would start using provocative language, ad hominem attacks, rude capitalisation. I would stop using terms like "I believe, I feel, I think, it may be that". If I were to make a very big deal out of it, I may, possibly, even point to my sig and explicitly say it was non-applicable for this post. But it is applicable.
Without getting into accepted standards of proof, subjectivity and relativity and such, I stated an opinion which you seem to be taking issue with. You haven't disproved as far as I can see, and although I don't think it's likely that you'll disprove it, I would like to hear, in a detailed explanation, why you disagree.
The word I used was "whatsoever" which is generally defined as something in the ballpark of " one or some or every or all without specification". I did not say "all people, use every means in every case to get what they want". I have not said this, which is why you telling me that "all people use every means in every case" is not true, reads to me as a non-sequitur.
This is not what I described It is. It is not, however, what I described. I was talking about psychopaths. A term which I believe has fallen into disuse among respectable psychologists, but which is usually taken to mean a person who feels little empathy for other or who enjoys making others suffer.
What a sociopath appears to be.
While I don't agree with this, it isn't relevant to what I said, so I won't comment upon it.
That is almost, but not quite, exactly what I did not say. Which is cool, but not relevant.
Yes. You appear not to understand the distinction between [ANY] as found in most dictionaries and [ALL] as found in most dictionaries.
The existence of society is to my mind indicative of the fact the people are bastards, psychopaths, disgusting savage animals - but ones who have the rationality to agree not to kill each other because they understand that most of us can dish out much more than we can take.
People use seduction, lies, fear, suspicion etc to gain advantages. They make people feel bad, sometimes for personal gain, sometimes for nothing more than the pleasure of seeing a person cry. I think most of us are like that. Maybe you don't, do you?
Which is why I think that gaining power won't fundamentally change a person, it will simply reveal who s/he really is.
I think Harry is a person who genuinely cares about people, which is why I would not object to his acquire great power, and trust him to use it with great responsibility.
Quibbling is definitely not what I'd be doing over those potatoes. Drooling? Yes. Savoring? Probably. Chomping on them like Cookie Monster? Abso-friggin-lutely.
(Red Russets are my second favorite potato.)
But the "depending on the person" IS my point. I don't see why you're agreeing yet applying the label of "false" when I not only used the term "most" but pointed it out. Saying that it's partially false because you believe you're an exception is like my saying "Some people lie" and your responding "That's partly false, because I don't lie". See?
The first and second sentences there are diametrically opposed to the third. Did the third perhaps fail to specify "a lot of pain from others/society"?
No, because quite frankly I consider myself alot smarter than most of the populace and able to get away with (ie NOT GET CAUGHT AT) a great many crimes and societal taboos if I engaged in them. My first thought isn't "but what if i get caught and they put me in federal pound me in the butthole jail?" its "how could I ever look at myself in the mirror after I did that?" followed by "plus if you didn't do it right you'd get caught."
Its an afterthought not a main cause.
But is that "how could I look at myself in the mirror" thought in addition to society's influence, or BECAUSE of society's influence?
So when Harry eats potato hash browns in front of Marcone while Molly is waiting in the car, does that make Hendricks and Gard Cowl and Kumori?
This discussion is confusing.
Did we ever get this statement sorted out?
"Who NEVER uses whatsoever power they have to get what they want? = Who wouldn't use whatsoever power they have to get what they want."
Because they do not equal each other. "Who NEVER uses whatsoever power they have to get what they want? = Who is so pure that they have NEVER, EVER used power to get what they want?"
Cause I my eyes start to glaze over when people argue different arguments and they think they're arguing the same point.
Did we ever get this statement sorted out?
"Who NEVER uses whatsoever power they have to get what they want? = Who wouldn't use whatsoever power they have to get what they want."
Because they do not equal each other. "Who NEVER uses whatsoever power they have to get what they want? = Who is so pure that they have NEVER, EVER used power to get what they want?"
Cause I my eyes start to glaze over when people argue different arguments and they think they're arguing the same point.
So in Changes, when(click to show/hide)
Long as Molly keeps her hair dyed to something dark, I'm okay with dating her ;0
Did we ever get this statement sorted out?
"Who NEVER uses whatsoever power they have to get what they want? = Who wouldn't use whatsoever power they have to get what they want."
Because they do not equal each other. "Who NEVER uses whatsoever power they have to get what they want? = Who is so pure that they have NEVER, EVER used power to get what they want?"
Cause I my eyes start to glaze over when people argue different arguments and they think they're arguing the same point.
Let me get this straight.
Molly wrote a really cheesy song and went back in time to prevent it but overshot and became Mab which somehow caused potato chips to be invented? Or was the Chips thing a crush on Carlos? No, wait, he's a warden in California, not a cop. Is the Irish thing about whiskey? Cause I could sure use some right now.
I'm so confused...
What, no blondes for you?
Let me get this straight.
Is the Irish thing about whiskey? Cause I could sure use some right now.
Not really into blondes no.
Raven hair, or Red.
Did we ever get this statement sorted out?
"Who NEVER uses whatsoever power they have to get what they want? = Who wouldn't use whatsoever power they have to get what they want."
Because they do not equal each other. "Who NEVER uses whatsoever power they have to get what they want? = Who is so pure that they have NEVER, EVER used power to get what they want?"
Cause I my eyes start to glaze over when people argue different arguments and they think they're arguing the same point.
They're partially similar, but you're right that they're not equivalent. Let's break it down to symbolic logic. I'll try to do it with words:
1) People have power. Innate ability, strings to pull, manipulation, etc. - everyone has access to a broad variety of tools to accomplish a given task. Whether or not they have chosen to use all or even most of those powers is, for the sake of the current discussion, irrelevant; the important point is that they have these powers available to them. For the moment, let us not consider powers that are available to them but of which they are actually unaware.
2) People want things, situations, etc.; there are conditions that they, at least in principle, find to be desirable.
3) Some of the powers/methods to get those desired things are less than kosher, at least by the ideals of society in principle.
4) There is a sliding, often HIGHLY subjective scale of kosherness that people are willing to sacrifice or ignore in order to obtained the desired things. Let us assign an arbitrary 0-to-10 scale of kosherness, 0 being inarguably saintly or noble or whatever, 10 being stated by pretty much everyone to be awful, psychopathic, evil or some such.
5) The first question, then, is whether there's anyone who would never venture above zero on the kosherness scale to achieve a desired thing. The second question is really a rhetorical restatement of the first, but with the subtle difference of being a thinly-veiled statement that the answer to the first question would be no. In the end, however, they point towards the same rhetorical device of a conclusion.
Molly/Mab IS potatoes. Sweet, yummy, tasty, satisfying potatoes.
Sweet potatoes...with butter and cinnamen! Yummy! My favs. ;D
Conspirisy
Operation: Distract them with potatoes until the argumentative people lose their steam has been a success.
We may now proceed with theories on Mab Carpenter.
Operation: Distract them with potatoes until the argumentative people lose their steam has been a success.
We may now proceed with theories on Mab Carpatater.
Pun overload
Molly lying now and then going back in time and undergoing a change of state which makes her unable to lie again seems not inconceivable to me.
That'd be some serious pent up...um...other stuff too. ::)OMG that's why she's so powerful, it's all that repressed...emotion...
Long as Molly keeps her hair dyed to something dark, I'm okay with dating her ;0
Molly tried to go back in time to stop Plan 9 From Outer Space being released. Unfortunately, she overshot by a little bit, and was not able to stop the movie by the time she it was made because she would upset the balance between Summer and Winter if she did so.
I think it's been mentioned somewhere that only one of the Queens has abdicated once
Can you imagine though.. waiting 5000+ years for Harry Dresden. I mean, that's some serious hang ups.
It would be kind of difficult to abdicate more than once.Indeed, that's what I get for changing my mind mid-sentence.
Major problem I have with this theory is that Molly is anything but frigid and let us face it, she makes um "things" grow. I say she's isn't Mab. She's Titania, it's why we have never seen her, and right now she is righteously pissed at Mab for boinking Harry. Which is why Mab broadcasted it, "hey biotch, look who I'm bumping uglies with! nanny nanny boo boo!"
Major problem I have with this theory is that Molly is anything but frigid and let us face it, she makes um "things" grow. I say she's isn't Mab. She's Titania, it's why we have never seen her, and right now she is righteously pissed at Mab for boinking Harry. Which is why Mab broadcasted it, "hey biotch, look who I'm bumping uglies with! nanny nanny boo boo!"
I'm now imagining Mab actually saying that in my head and I can't stop laughing.
Mab is actually Murphy?
She found out Molly was going back in time, and she went back in too. Murphy beat Molly to the Winter Queen, so Molly took Summer Queen. This is why they fight all the time. It's 5000+ year spat over who gets Harry.
Mab is actually Murphy?
She found out Molly was going back in time, and she went back in too. Murphy beat Molly to the Winter Queen, so Molly took Summer Queen. This is why they fight all the time. It's 5000+ year spat over who gets Harry.
Soi it all worked out for the best in the end, because Plan 9 rocks.
I'm envisioning a very bad episode of Time Cops....
I was going for the "even worse than normal bad time cops".
Will Torquemada be there? How about Mel Brooks?
hey hey hey! I'll be doing the Inquisiting here, you strap yourself to that iron maiden and think about what you've done ;D
No, because quite frankly I consider myself alot smarter than most of the populace and able to get away with (ie NOT GET CAUGHT AT) a great many crimes and societal taboos if I engaged in them. My first thought isn't "but what if i get caught and they put me in federal pound me in the butthole jail?" its "how could I ever look at myself in the mirror after I did that?" followed by "plus if you didn't do it right you'd get caught."
Its an afterthought not a main cause.
I like the irony of this statement made by someone who claims to be more moral and righteous than the average person.
Personally, I will admit that I am a law abiding, "good" citizen because I fear consequences. Whether it be in this life or the one after, I don't want to answer for bad things I do.
I think a lot of people are just not self-aware or honest enough to admit it. With absolute power, I would do terrible, terrible things. Perhaps wonderful things too... the funny thing about this world is the way perspective shapes our views.
For instance, say I ascended to godhood. If I were to annihilate all the Arabs in the Gaza strip, Israelis would think I was awesome. If I did the same to the Israelis, the Arabs would think I was an angel. The point I am making is that there is no possible way for anyone to appear "good" to everyone. I mean heck, even those who believe in God and worship Him still bitch about him "taking" so and so due to cancer.
Get me?
They should've just went on the Jerry Springer show to sort this all out. Would've went faster.
And so you think that Harry ...? ;)
I like the irony of this statement made by someone who claims to be more moral and righteous than the average person.
Personally, I will admit that I am a law abiding, "good" citizen because I fear consequences. Whether it be in this life or the one after, I don't want to answer for bad things I do.
I think a lot of people are just not self-aware or honest enough to admit it. With absolute power, I would do terrible, terrible things. Perhaps wonderful things too... the funny thing about this world is the way perspective shapes our views.
For instance, say I ascended to godhood. If I were to annihilate all the Arabs in the Gaza strip, Israelis would think I was awesome. If I did the same to the Israelis, the Arabs would think I was an angel. The point I am making is that there is no possible way for anyone to appear "good" to everyone. I mean heck, even those who believe in God and worship Him still bitch about him "taking" so and so due to cancer.
Get me?
Bump!
because it will be at least four years until the books come out that will prove/ disprove this bit of lunacy, and i refuse to let this die.
hmmmmm..would this explain why all of fairy is crazy for pizza and donuts?
I thought Molly was a health nut?
Can you imagine though.. waiting 5000+ years for Harry Dresden. I mean, that's some serious hang ups.
Actually, a lot of health nuts mistakenly believe energy drinks are good for you.
who doesn't practice what she preaches though (drinking a monster? i think not)
Molly feeds Harry health food
she herself has munched donuts, diet pepsi (heathen), prefers McD's to burger king, and pizza.
If somone say Lea makes a snarky remark sometime how Mab can't cook ill call this myth plausible.
Oh, Iunno. I bet Mab could make some awesome icecream.
Oh, Iunno. I bet Mab could make some awesome icecream.
Any ideas as to what her Ben and Jerry's line would be called?"I'm your ice cream god,
"Mab's Mad Mulberry"
"Queen of Whipped Cream(Air) and Dark(ness) Chocolate"
"We All Scream" (Just cause its Mab...)
"I'm your ice cream god,
stop me when I'm passin by,
say now all my flavors
are guaranteed to satisfy"
All her distributors would love the way she finalizes a contract. "My sales rep! MINE!"
"All flavors and push-ups too"
David Lee Roth would get his manhood frozen off.The problem with keeping my mind out of the gutter is that it's been there so long that the back of my head has worn this nice comfortable groove in the curb...
David Lee Roth would get his manhood frozen off.
David Lee Roth would get his manhood frozen off.
http://oglaf.com/snowbound/ (http://oglaf.com/snowbound/)
NSFW
Oglaf, for the win
David Lee Roth would get his manhood frozen off.
Back to the Molly as Titania suggestion. It makes as much sense as Molly being Mab. If Molly was/is Titania, it explains why Harry has never seen her, because Harry recognizing Molly as Titania could possibly cause a time paradox. It's why Titania didn't kill Harry while he was defenseless at the end of SK after he had killed Auora. Also, Mab knows/knew that Molly had a thing for Harry, so she wanted Harry as Winter Knight out of spite and(click to show/hide)
I'm also super glad that the scenario in the second olgaf link didn't happen to Harry, although I'm sure that Toot would have found it interesting.
it would allso mean Harry killed Molly's daughter...I was under the impression that Aurora was just some powerful faery who happened to be the summer lady, just as related to Titania as Lily is now. Looks like it's time for a reread.
I was under the impression that Aurora was just some powerful faery who happened to be the summer lady, just as related to Titania as Lily is now.
Titania and Mab are two sides of an incredibly powerful split personality.
When Molly fell through time and had to do an Ascension rite to survive, she was so appalled by what she had done that it split her psyche cleanly in two. She became so powerful that at times she can manifest both personalities at once, but only rarely. This is why the two are almost never seen at the same time and always ultimately end up working towards the same ends.
Molly is Mab and Titania.
Then who are Mother Winter and Mother Summer?
And since she split herself into two halves, that's why Harry can't recognise him since he only sees part of her, so in reality she is competing with herself in who gets harry first Titania or Mab ;p...and for those of you who absolutely can't keep your minds out of the gutter: imagine that threesome.
How about instead of Molly being Mab, Molly is Titania and that's why Harry hasn't see her.
Well...the whole title of this thread is a nom de guerre. It's entirely NOT possible, however TOTALLY possible. We don't have enough character development to give it credible evidence, yet it could be proven true. However, magic in the dresdenverse isn't quite as rigid as the codex alera. I feel it's too early to make such predictions. Of course if i am wrong i proverbially eat my post.
;
Black Company refence for when Lara Raith is due to show soon,
I missed that one; where was it ?
It's no crazier than the theory someone floated about Susan getting preg...gotta go to DBZ for help w/ that one. in it Kame casts out his darker urges that became an evil entity Picolo. so Mab ( original Molly after ascension ) casts out her good and sunny side. that becomes the second Summer Queen Titania. so Molly can still be the 2 Fae Queens. 8)
Oh.
Wait.
;D
Off-the-wall does not discredit a theory. And it's an absolute delight to think through and/or reread the theories while keeping the possibility in mind.
I especially like the idea floated about the Summer and Winter Queens being two sides of the same being, but I find it difficult to reconcile with the knowledge that the Summer Queen has been replaced at least once, while Mab has been the only Winter Queen.
Thank you Priscellie, for pormoting my hypothesis from 'stupid carp Duck says' to 'neurovore level conspiracy'.
;D
I am so amused that people seem to be giving this theory serious thought.
well this theory is one of the more interesting theories on the board and could have some very cool and interesting effects on the series if it would be true, and harry found out
Honestly, I'd love to see Harry's reaction.
Harry: "Wait, so I did it with Mab who's Molly so...
...
Charity is going to kill me."
WHo knows? Maybe Charity found out and she's the shooter ;).
So whose line is "MEEP MEEP!"?
Thank you Priscellie, for pormoting my hypothesis from 'stupid carp Duck says' to 'neurovore level conspiracy'.
;D
Thank you Priscellie, for pormoting my hypothesis from 'stupid carp Duck says' to 'neurovore level conspiracy'.
We've finally gauged that level? That sorta frightens me
Thomas
We've finally gauged that level? That sorta frightens me
I dont know wether to be giggly or concerned that the Goddess is now using the imperial 'we'..
I still think Mab is really Murphy. They're both Small, petite, with fantastic bodies and serious bad ass attitude :)
I don't think Molly has a 'serious bad ass attitude'. She's coming out of her teens, and seeing serious bad sh!t. Not as much as Murphy, of course, but Murphy has YEARS of practice. Molly is still a work in progress, I think, but she is becoming more aware and responsible. ;)I was saying MAB and Murphy have serious bad ass attitude.
Can we get the cooler smilies from The Chat in here?? PLEASE?????
I really like the monkey.
I was saying MAB and Murphy have serious bad ass attitude.
Thank you Priscellie, for pormoting my hypothesis from 'stupid carp Duck says' to 'neurovore level conspiracy'.
We've finally gauged that level? That sorta frightens me
bu what about margaret katherine amanda carpenter?
One, in storm front, JB writes that wizards have four names so as to deal with the true name thing, make it harder to figure out for demons like chauncey.
ms. duck i thought that the reason harry had four names was just because of the way he was named, but someone like molly who only has three names, how is there a fourth for her?
Lea is interested in Molly, has been since GP
Molly has powers of illusion, fear, and mind control
..so does Mab. Just to the ^googleplex. In fact, shes famous for it.
Molly has a serious 'thing' for Harry. Almost an obsession.
So does Mab..no wait, it is an obsession.( Mine, MIne, Mine...on HDTV, worldwide)
Mab has many names, Mab is one...not her true name. But she has one.according to JB
Mab is millenia old, and has never been replaced, she may be prehistoric, like in ice age prehistoric.
speculations:
Harry will sooner or later bend or break all seven of the laws, including time travel..now JB was kinda snarky bout that but..
The Erlking was human once, and ascended thru ritual, JB implied Mab was as well.
PG has layers within layers, but the big questions is, why Molly?
and why realy did Mab wink at the end?
I am so amused that people seem to be giving this theory serious thought.yea realy this is strange how did she turn inti a demi god in the last 5 mins
It has two things going for it realy..
1) the prophecies that Harry will: truly regret bonding too demonreach. Harry will someday break all the laws, including time travel.
2) It explains a lot of the little details about Mab. What she knew, when, how she predicted things from happening, how she knew about Little Chicago, why she 'borrowed' it in turn coat, etc..
Well sort of a joke.
Here is where it all came from:
(Long Explination)
Enjoy disproving.
Well sort of a joke.
Here is where it all came from:
JB has written that we all have missed two major clue bats in turn coat, and quite a few of us went gonzo trying to
snip...
and end the ice age she accidentally started.
Or as others have suggested, her personality split into pieces..but im in favor of the recruiting idea.
Enjoy disproving.
Okay, then where do Mother Winter and Mother Summer fit into all this?
By the way, about 75,000 years ago (or so) is when the Genetic Bottleneck occured. That's the time when they back track all the human genes and found out about 75,000 years ago, something happened and there were suddenly only about 1000 humans left on Earth. Must have been one HELL of an ascension spell for Mab :)
I'm finding it rather spookie that Little Chicago's missing and Harry dosen't know. I just figured it was under the tarp, but did find it odd he didn't use it.
:o
NO NO NO that is when the Survivors from the colonies landed.
I'm finding it rather spookie that Little Chicago's missing and Harry dosen't know. I just figured it was under the tarp, but did find it odd he didn't use it.He mentions Little Chicago during Changes. His memory of it is back, if it was ever truly gone.
Tables and shelves lined the walls, covered in wizardly bric-a-brac. A long table ran down the middle of the room, almost entirely occupied by a scale model of downtown Chicago made of pewter, right down to the streetlights and trees.Changes
As I recall wasn't a giant hole burned through the table during White Night when Harry was spying on Cole? With all the time and energy spent on trying to create it, perhaps harry didn't have enough to be able to repair all the damage before SmF, TC, and Changes.
Yup. And not only the table, but one of the buildings (at least) was ruined as well.I was thinking about Little Chicago being detailed down to buildings and even trees. To be perfectly accurate, he has to redo the thing constantly. Not just because streets get fixed, buildings are torn down and built, but trees grow and die off. This thing is a monumental time consumer, just to constantly cruise Chicago looking for changes. Then making new trees and buildings and whatnot...
I was thinking about Little Chicago being detailed down to buildings and even trees. To be perfectly accurate, he has to redo the thing constantly. Not just because streets get fixed, buildings are torn down and built, but trees grow and die off. This thing is a monumental time consumer, just to constantly cruise Chicago looking for changes. Then making new trees and buildings and whatnot...
He did have the Little Folk fetching the stuff for him, so it was just a matter of putting it in.Really? When did that come out? I don't remember it. Although it makes perfect sense. "Hey, Toot, I have this model of the city in my basement. Now I don't want anybody touching it, but if while you're out and about you notice that the real city has changed, let me know, okay?"
Well sort of a joke.
Here is where it all came from:
JB has written that we all have missed two major clue bats in turn coat, and quite a few of us went gonzo trying to figure out what they are. I Believe it was He Whom Walks who first noted that in turn coat, when Harry is searching for Thomas, he does not use his most obvious tool, little Chicago. In fact, it’s not even mentioned in the book at all, unlike every other book when it is used or not, only referred too as a ‘tarp covered table.’
Second, Harry has nasty headaches throughout the entire book. Now there are several ideas about these headaches, many of them involving his brain damage, but especially in light of his not having them in changes, it seems clear these headaches are cause by someone messing with his head, just like the headaches he got in small favor when Mab messed with his head… hmmm…
Third, someone has messed with little Chicago before, during proven guilty, when Mab was involved oh so strangely with Molly. (more on that later.)
So, this led some of to speculate Mab had messed with Little Chicago again, or at least made Harry and Bob forget it existed at all. But Why?
Removing Little Chicago prevents Harry from finding Shaggy and Thomas directly.
It has several results, but the largest is it forces Harry to bond with Demonreach, something that JB has written he ‘will deeply regret later.’ Note that Mab, at this point, has considerable other options; She could, for example, have just walked in and offered Harry the winter knight job in return for her help rescuing Thomas. Or unleashed Lea. And those are just the unsubtle options.
Ergo, if we follow this logic, Demonreach is important to Mab, and it is important to her that Harry have it. Why? Well, many possibilities, but in my scenario, it is because Demonreach is the earthly location of the sidhe table (it is directly below it, remember summer knight); this is where, 75,000 years ago, a mortal wizard ascended to become Mab, causing the last major ice age. ( And creating that lovely source of permanent dark magic the island’s warden protects.)
As do the Mothers, as seen in SK. And as we haven't seen Titania in any meaningful way, giving Mab all this is a bit premature. Taking one slice of a whole does not give you a picture of the whole. It's just one slice.
It all came together one night when I was really tired and remembered JB had said this:
‘Well its one of the Laws (time travel) and Harry hasn’t broken it yet, so he will have too.’
So we have Mab, who knows way too much about what is going on and what will happen in the future,
who can walk right thru all of Harry’s wards anytime she wants, who forced Harry into the position of Demonreach, somehow predicting that he would take that option…
We have Lea, quite interested in Molly, even back when she was a kid.
We have the entire darn book of Proven Guilty.
We have Molly, whom has powers of illusion, enchantment, and mind control.
We have Mab, whom was probably human once, quite legendary for her illusions, enchantments, and mind controls.
And we have Margaret Katherine Amanda Carpenter; Margaret from Marvarid, also spelled Margot, Marit, and Maeb..or as JB spells it, Mab.
Time travel + location of sidhe table + eternal regret of Harry … Molly is Mab.
As to the rest of the queens, I suspect they came later actually, (Mab says she IS Sidhe, not she IS A sidhe.)…Molly recruited them to balance her out, and end the ice age she accidentally started.
Or as others have suggested, her personality split into pieces..but im in favor of the recruiting idea.
Enjoy disproving.
Ummm, the most -likely- suspect for messing with LC to keep if from killing Harry is -Lash-. He dies, she loses a host. And being resident in his head, she was in the most advantageous position to see the issues, and know what he did wrong and how to correct them. I think he would have known if someone of Mab's ilk had crashed through the apartment protections, and the lab protections, fixed his toy, and left, as she could not have reset those protections. They were his, after all. Not hers.
Actually, all that would do is keep Dresden alive. Cowl was a mortal, and his attack through LC destroyed it's function, and nearly killed Dresden. The nagloshi is a semi-divine being a few levels up from ol Cowl in the brute force department (else Cowl & Co. would have had no real need for the Darkhallow). This was quite likely the reason he didn't bother with the thing; a mortal wizard nearly fried his cortex. Anything stronger would have burned him to ash in the attempt. And shagnasty is most likely stronger than Cowl is.
Actually, nothing says that Demonreach -is- 'directly under' the Stone Tablet.....or the sacrificial alter, to be more precise. The actual text in SK states that Mab -and Titania- created the place where Harry & Co fight, to settle the issue. Not that it existed all the time, unmoving. Two, they reached it by 'walking up a magical stairway into the sky' from the shore at Chicago. How far out into Lake Superior is that island again? If the area around the altar was templated on Chicago (as dresden commented on), then they would have had to travel a long way to get there. And how do you explain the dual nature of the tablet? Half the year, it is anything -but- a focus dark magic, as it is owned by Summer. The Fae have always been dual natured, as they represent nature itself. So unless you know of a well of light magic, just as deep and powerful as Demonreach, that no one knows about or has the slightest inkling exists, to act as the counterbalance to Demonreach.... Fail
As do the Mothers, as seen in SK. And as we haven't seen Titania in any meaningful way, giving Mab all this is a bit premature. Taking one slice of a whole does not give you a picture of the whole. It's just one slice.
Source of power to tap, a mortal soul to seduce and turn, giving them a wizardly source of power to play with. Nothing outside of the Sidhe ordinary there....
About a 16-17 year old punk-goth runaway wizard who gets in over her head and is used to lure Harry to Arctis Tor. For all we know, the fetches were turned by the Black Council, managed to finess Mab into entrusting the Tor to them as she led Winter in such a way that she was bound to leave the Tor in their hands (anything smacking of promise is binding on fae, remember), and they let in Namshiel to do whatever it was he did besides destroying a lot of things. I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a time bomb or three in her from that little sojourn to Winter, but so far we have seen no evidence of it.
Like how many other wizards.....? Molly is far from unique in any of those categories. And maybe more importantly, has so far shown absolutely no predilection for cold based magic. Or the kind of power needed to time travel.
And exactly what kind of ascension spell did she use, hmmm? Mab is kinda immortal; Molly isn't. And only a ritual of ascension could have changed that. Or divine action. Also keep in mind that what was known as Faery was around at least as long as humanity was. Who was in charge all that time before DJ MollyC came and pulled an ascension ritual out of her nether regions and decided to be the poster child for the next Stone Cold Bitch(tm)? Nature has always had balance. Can't have Winter without Summer.
Er, actually, the line is "I am Sidhe. I am Mab." No different in context than I am fae. I am American. No cosmic symbolism there, I fear.... And again. Balance. Without both, one or the other would destroy the very thing that gave them context.
Next?
Hi Dale
Duck shall address your cunning objections, one by one:
• Ummm, the most -likely- suspect for messing with LC to keep if from killing Harry is -Lash-. He dies, she loses a host. And being resident in his head, she was in the most advantageous position to see the issues, and know what he did wrong and how to correct them. I think he would have known if someone of Mab's ilk had crashed through the apartment protections, and the lab protections, fixed his toy, and left, as she could not have reset those protections. They were his, after all. Not hers.
• REPLY: Lash is actually the least likely suspect, after Marcone. If she could mess with his head to that degree, and mess with Bob as well ( remember Bob doesn’t know who messed with it) then there is no reason at all for most of her other deceptions. Second, this is actually the weakest link in my theory; not because Mab has to blast thru his protections and needs to be Molly to get in, but because she does not. Mab has his number, from the debt she bought from Lea, and can walk right thru his magic’s anytime she wants. What she needs to be Molly for is to know about LC in the first place, and to have foreknowledge of events accurate enough to know exactly what moves to make in those scenarios. Also, Mab is the only suspect that could just waltz past Bob without being detected.
• Actually, nothing says that Demonreach -is- 'directly under' the Stone Tablet.....or the sacrificial alter, to be more precise. The actual text in SK states that Mab -and Titania- created the place where Harry & Co fight, to settle the issue. Not that it existed all the time, unmoving. Two, they reached it by 'walking up a magical stairway into the sky' from the shore at Chicago. How far out into Lake Superior is that island again? If the area around the altar was templated on Chicago (as dresden commented on), then they would have had to travel a long way to get there. And how do you explain the dual nature of the tablet? Half the year, it is anything -but- a focus dark magic, as it is owned by Summer. The Fae have always been dual natured, as they represent nature itself. So unless you know of a well of light magic, just as deep and powerful as Demonreach, that no one knows about or has the slightest inkling exists, to act as the counterbalance to Demonreach.... Fail
• REPLY: counter fail. I think you are confusing the table, which is the sacrificial altar used by the sidhe in their accession ceremony, and thus a source of true dark power, with the other items ‘winter’s wellspring’ and ‘summers fire’ from proven guilty, which are specific to the natures of the courts. Second, why would the fae choose to put the table there, if they could have put it anywhere? The Equator for an epic battle would have made more sense. They put it over lake Chicago; over a source of dark magic 75,000 years old. That’s right, Demonreach isle has a source of dark magic beneath it over 75,000 years old; and the Isle itself was badly injured by something that happened at the start of the last ice age…
• Source of power to tap, a mortal soul to seduce and turn, giving them a wizardly source of power to play with. Nothing outside of the Sidhe ordinary there....
• REPLY: funny, I don’t recall them seducing Ramirez nearly so hard…In fact, the only wizards they have persued have been Maggie, Harry, Elaine, and Molly.
• About a 16-17 year old punk-goth runaway wizard who gets in over her head and is used to lure Harry to Arctis Tor. For all we know, the fetches were turned by the Black Council, managed to finess Mab into entrusting the Tor to them as she led Winter in such a way that she was bound to leave the Tor in their hands (anything smacking of promise is binding on fae, remember), and they let in Namshiel to do whatever it was he did besides destroying a lot of things. I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a time bomb or three in her from that little sojourn to Winter, but so far we have seen no evidence of it.
• REPLY: all the evidence shows that the BC tried to deal with Mab and got outplanned, out smarted, and just plain outgunned. I consider a far more likely reason for the whole scenario is Mab needed to give herself a good quick kick in the arse, and get the whole thing moving in the right direction.
• And exactly what kind of ascension spell did she use, hmmm? Mab is kinda immortal; Molly isn't. And only a ritual of ascension could have changed that. Or divine action. Also keep in mind that what was known as Faery was around at least as long as humanity was. Who was in charge all that time before DJ MollyC came and pulled an ascension ritual out of her nether regions and decided to be the poster child for the next Stone Cold Bitch(tm)? Nature has always had balance. Can't have Winter without Summer
• Nature has not always had balance, very very much the opposite. And the time I speculate for the beginnings of Mab would be oh…75,000 years ago. Here’s the thing; I don’t believe that the nature courts have always existed. If they had, the incarnations certainly would not be human. (Behold Queen Mab..the T Rex). I think someone, a wizard, did an ascension ritual on THAT spot 75,000 years ago, starting the ice age, and killing of 90% of the people on earth at that time. Summer and the other queens were added later, to create balance and prevent extinction of all life on earth.
• Er, actually, the line is "I am Sidhe. I am Mab." No different in context than I am fae. I am American. No cosmic symbolism there, I fear.... And again. Balance. Without both, one or the other would destroy the very thing that gave them context.
• REPLY: Mab always speaks the exact truth.. as others have pointed out, there is no ‘a or an’ in that sentence. And yes, Summer was added later, to end the ice age Mab accidentally started…
I don't like the Molly=Mab thing, simply because I don't like the time travel bit.
I think maybe some people just want some things to go together.
so Mortal acsension + knowledge of the futrue+ pressence of the table + personal stake + explanations for some of the things that have happened + JB"s snarky comments + time travel will happen in the books sometime + ice age + near human extinction + demonreach + ...
wait how do we know time travel will happen some time in the series? Did Jim say that???
Mother Winter and Mother Summer would have been in control of things before Mab and Tatiana
Second, why would the fae choose to put the table there, if they could have put it anywhere? The Equator for an epic battle would have made more sense. They put it over lake Chicago; over a source of dark magic 75,000 years old. That’s right, Demonreach isle has a source of dark magic beneath it over 75,000 years old; and the Isle itself was badly injured by something that happened at the start of the last ice age…
Dear Dale:
so you propose that Laciel, caring about the to her irellevant future, used her influence to conrtol her shadow Lash, who then possessed Harry's body, fixed the LC, somehow fooled Bob, and then erseded the memmories from Lash, Harry, and Bob? Why would she not just outright force him to take up the coin? In fact, why is there a war beteween the knights and the coins at all, if the coins are that powerfull? Why would the coins even nead bearers?
the table is the sacrifice table, and a specific item indeed, as per comments of Lea, Aurura, Mab, and JB hisself.
JB allso stated that the erlking definately, and he implied the queens as well, ascended by large scale rites of sacrifice.
And I have no objection with mab being 650,000 years old..thats why I said 75,000 years at least.
and there were periods, in some case millions or billions of years, in which by our terms one or the other court would be supreme, if they even existed at all. I doubt there was a 'balanced' faerie court during the cretacous period, for example. Or the Huronian for a counter example.
so Mortal acsension + knowledge of the futrue+ pressence of the table + personal stake + explanations for some of the things that have happened + JB"s snarky comments + time travel will happen in the books sometime + ice age + near human extinction + demonreach + ...
Nope. Try Lash, being aware of what is going on via her implanting in Dresden, notes the errors in set up (perfect memory, remember?). Whispers to her full self that the host they both want is in danger, and that a small amount of power directed here, there, and yes, over there, is just enough to fix it. No need to erase memories, as Lash was quite capable of doing things without Harry being aware of it, Lasciel is most likely a strong enough entity that she could manipulate energy in a fashion that Bob couldn't sense. And I mentioned rules of binding.....one of which is that a mortal has to take the coin by his or her free will.
But we don't know when, or who were the stars of the sacrificial show. It could easily have been other, lesser fae in all cases that led to the Big Three we know and love....
Except that there had to be. The ice -never- reached the tropics.....and the polar regions never became vacation spots for Floridians. Sure, I doubt that any 'court' existed as such until mortal man's imagination provided the concepts needed, but the forces of nature were there from the get go.
Except that there had to be. The ice -never- reached the tropics.....and the polar regions never became vacation spots for Floridians.
iirc, we know that the Erkling was human at one point.
Lash was capable of creating ILLUSIONS without Harry realizing it, changing actual reality is completely different.
iirc, we know that the Erkling was human at one point.
Both existing is not the same at all as both being equal.
I am surprised that no mention has been made of Maeve's fashion sense.
Which is why I mentioned Lasciel as doing the actual tweaking. -She- was the one with the power. But she was bound in the coin, and further in the spells Dresden placed around the coin. Probably unaware due to the shields. But Lash was very aware, and apparently able to communicate in some fashion with her other.
Well, let's just get it over with. Molly Carpenter is at least 20 years old at the time of Changes. As in physically adult, within a few percentage points of final growth. Anyone found any reference whatsoever that Mab and Molly have any sort of resemblance, save the fact that they are both female? Dresden would have noticed; more it would have conflicted with the padawan as student and non lust object and Mab as uber hottie. The resemblance would have been there even before Molly got as old as she is. No one's noticed. There should have been some indication. If 'Mab' arose after a mortal wizard travelled in time and ascended, a lot of entities would have noted and remembered it. So far, nothing....
Well, let's just get it over with. Molly Carpenter is at least 20 years old at the time of Changes. As in physically adult, within a few percentage points of final growth. Anyone found any reference whatsoever that Mab and Molly have any sort of resemblance, save the fact that they are both female? Dresden would have noticed; more it would have conflicted with the padawan as student and non lust object and Mab as uber hottie. The resemblance would have been there even before Molly got as old as she is. No one's noticed. There should have been some indication. If 'Mab' arose after a mortal wizard travelled in time and ascended, a lot of entities would have noted and remembered it. So far, nothing....
The equator is always warm and the length of day doesn't really vary. The Great Lakes are a place where lots of warm air meets lots of cold air, produces wicked storms, and has significant length-of-day variation through the year.
As I recall wasn't a giant hole burned through the table during White Night when Harry was spying on Cole? With all the time and energy spent on trying to create it, perhaps harry didn't have enough to be able to repair all the damage before SmF, TC, and Changes.
Nope. Try Lash, being aware of what is going on via her implanting in Dresden, notes the errors in set up (perfect memory, remember?). Whispers to her full self that the host they both want is in danger, and that a small amount of power directed here, there, and yes, over there, is just enough to fix it. No need to erase memories, as Lash was quite capable of doing things without Harry being aware of it, Lasciel is most likely a strong enough entity that she could manipulate energy in a fashion that Bob couldn't sense. And I mentioned rules of binding.....one of which is that a mortal has to take the coin by his or her free will.
But we don't know when, or who were the stars of the sacrificial show. It could easily have been other, lesser fae in all cases that led to the Big Three we know and love....
Except that there had to be. The ice -never- reached the tropics.....and the polar regions never became vacation spots for Floridians. Sure, I doubt that any 'court' existed as such until mortal man's imagination provided the concepts needed, but the forces of nature were there from the get go.
...divided by the sqare root of 2 = buffer overflow.
Maybe Molly went back in time, together with Bob the spirit of intelligence, he taught her the ascension rite to become Mab.
Later on Molly realizes you didn't have to do the rite naked and that is why Bob had to flee from Mab/Molly.
He ends up in the skull and is on his path to Harry again.
The reason he won't talk to Harry about what he argued with Mab about is because it would reveal things in Harrys future even though it's in Bob's past and discussing future things before it has happened is dangerous.
Best spoof post yet.
The vord will be destroyed by persuasive subprime-mortgage lenders and fly-by-night stockbrokers. All that remains of them will be a few sad-looking ones slumping against Aleran walls holding up signs: "WILL SWARM FOR FOOD."
No we don't, the word of jim that talked about this only said he did a rite of ascension to get to where he is. It never said he was a human before. it might turn out that he was human but it isn't proven at this point yet.
Im calling 'shenanigans' on this one; the quote from JB came out from the question of what would have happened to cowl had he succeded in casting the ascension ritual; the implication of ' he would have become a god, just like the erlking did. How do you think the erlking bacame that way in the first place?'
seems fairly clear to me that the erlking was hum,an at one point.
Im calling 'shenanigans' on this one; the quote from JB came out from the question of what would have happened to cowl had he succeded in casting the ascension ritual; the implication of ' he would have become a god, just like the erlking did. How do you think the erlking bacame that way in the first place?'
seems fairly clear to me that the erlking was hum,an at one point.
as he appears very not human now, it is allso obvious to me that his appearance or nature changed via the ritual or what happens afterward. Or conversely, he changed his appearance to suit.
futhermore, Mab can change her appearance at will,and has done sop in the books; why cant erl?
as to the next objection, it allso seems clear to me that such rituals require human sacrifice. Of the three we have seen so far, all three would have drawn their power from large scale human death. To assume Mab was a little fairy who went around sacrificing lots and lots and lots of other little fairies seems unlikely when Kemmler started world war 1 to jump start his ritual.
and having Molly dropped at the later part of the ice age actually makes some sense- she did the ritual to become Mab to restore balance to the world, thus saving it.
and not to get into TT subjects like global warming, but look up snowball earth. its rather fascinating. You used to be able to ski from the north pole to the south without much problem.
PS: Ducks dont care about the names of water bodies. We just crap in them.
I'm calling 'shenanigans' on this one; the quote from JB came out from the question of what would have happened to Cowl had he succeded in casting the ascension ritual; the implication of "he would have become a god, just like the erlking did. How do you think the Erlking became that way in the first place?"You are of course assuming that Cowl is human. Have we seen proof of that anywhere?
seems fairly clear to me that the Erlking was human at one point.
You are of course assuming that Cowl is human. Have we seen proof of that anywhere?
Unless Jim flat out states the Erlking was once human it is only a assumption and should be presented as such. You can be sure that he was human as you like and base your speculation of this fact but you need to make sure people understand that it is only your speculation. People around here count on others to present the facts accurately when they are saying that have word of Jim on something since what he has commented on is scattered all over the internet. It is too easy for things to take on a life of their own and be commonly known "fact" even if they are not true with the way we trust each other around here. That is why it is so important that we present the information we receive from Jim as accurately as possible and not confuse the situation with our own assumptions and interpretations.
I myself think it is most likely that the Erlking was once a human or at least a changeling, mostly do to that almost un-fae like way he behaved in Changes. But since the facts of the matter are not established as of yet I have to be sure I let people know this is only what I believe not fact.
You are of course assuming that Cowl is human. Have we seen proof of that anywhere?
quite frankly anyone on this board for more then twenty minutes could conclude I am am either the class clown or the village idiot round here.
But we've also been given the example of the hags in WttJ, who are not human, aiming to pull off an ascension rite, so we know that one does not have to be human to carry one out.
It seems clear to me that Jim's comment there falls under the "at least as tricksy as Mab" category.
Hey, I respect your talents: I'm sure you can handle being both.
and do we have any evidence that they were not in fact at one time human?
so far, witht he possible exemption of the white god, the only powers we have seen seem to me be of the latter kind. Half mortal demi gods who gain power by preying on or sacrificing mortals..in the DV, I think a claim can be made that mortals are the source of all the magic, and many of the 'gods' just super vampires of some kind.
and thus i preceded my points with 'it seems clear to me..' 'is obvoius to me..' 'i belive that' and the classic 'this is all stupid crap duck says..' ; quite frankly anyone on this board for more then twenty minutes could conclude I am am either the class clown or the village idiot round here.
I suppose not, though we equally have none that they are.
I can buy that most gods originate from mortal humans, I just think there are classes of being in the DV that are neither. Bob appears to exist on a different wavelength from faith-based entities like angels, and Faerie seems to work distinctly differently from gods; we are told vampires originate in the NN.
Changes spoilers:(click to show/hide)
you called 'shenanigans' on me pointing out that we didn't know for certain if the Erlkind was human or not so I assumed you were claiming that it was fact that he was, that is why I gave the rather long winded and stuffy speech about moral obligations to the truth and so forth. I apologize if I misunderstood what you were trying to say.
class clown maybe but certainly never the village idiot. maybe just a little confused. ;D
(http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/3454132/2/istockphoto_3454132-sad-duck-cartoon.jpg)
i answer your spoiler with a(click to show/hide)
as to uglies from the NN.. i think it might be a feedback system. wizard a ascends to demigodhood, creates servants, they go back to earth, some of them breed with humnas or bond with humans, now they want to become demigods so they set up their own religions/ rtiuals/ sheep farms..much like the loonies did.
I dont actually; there are two options:
gods made men and men make gods.
but gods, being jealous, would not allow the latter if the former were correct.
and while the demons who inhabited the reds/ white/ plaids may have been servants from the NN to begin with, their hosts are human indeed.
Tank Ewe (HUGS)
yknow someday the other students are going to do something about you ruining the grading curve...
We know when we understand, a mighty god is a living man
I would like to reply to all of this with
Quote from: Bob Marley
We know when we understand, a mighty god is a living man
..yupDo you realize that this typo sounds like deep southern for "horny"?
cause thats how the duck flies.
in fact, im ilying its becoming moe and more like Mab's
long hoeny blonde with ice blue and green tips
to pure white hite blue tips and highlights
annother point of data:The "divine protection" supposedly didn't kick in until Michael retired. Up to that point they had only the panic room and the threat of "do you seriously want to give a knight of the cross a good reason to come after you?"
in proven guilty, the three fetches enter the carpenter household, after blasting thru the fence, even tho that area has 'divine' protection; Harry reasons MOlly must have been decieved into inviting them in.
But the story from her brother implies they just forced their way in...
what if they were invited/ sent by Molly..just her 10,000 year older self?
Well sort of a joke. holly shit that atuchaly macks sens and now i am scared of molly
Here is where it all came from:
JB has written that we all have missed two major clue bats in turn coat, and quite a few of us went gonzo trying to figure out what they are. I Believe it was He Whom Walks who first noted that in turn coat, when Harry is searching for Thomas, he does not use his most obvious tool, little Chicago. In fact, it’s not even mentioned in the book at all, unlike every other book when it is used or not, only referred too as a ‘tarp covered table.’
Second, Harry has nasty headaches throughout the entire book. Now there are several ideas about these headaches, many of them involving his brain damage, but especially in light of his not having them in changes, it seems clear these headaches are cause by someone messing with his head, just like the headaches he got in small favor when Mab messed with his head… hmmm…
Third, someone has messed with little Chicago before, during proven guilty, when Mab was involved oh so strangely with Molly. (more on that later.)
So, this led some of to speculate Mab had messed with Little Chicago again, or at least made Harry and Bob forget it existed at all. But Why?
Removing Little Chicago prevents Harry from finding Shaggy and Thomas directly. It has several results, but the largest is it forces Harry to bond with Demonreach, something that JB has written he ‘will deeply regret later.’ Note that Mab, at this point, has considerable other options; She could, for example, have just walked in and offered Harry the winter knight job in return for her help rescuing Thomas. Or unleashed Lea. And those are just the unsubtle options.
Ergo, if we follow this logic, Demonreach is important to Mab, and it is important to her that Harry have it. Why? Well, many possibilities, but in my scenario, it is because Demonreach is the earthly location of the sidhe table (it is directly below it, remember summer knight); this is where, 75,000 years ago, a mortal wizard ascended to become Mab, causing the last major ice age. ( And creating that lovely source of permanent dark magic the island’s warden protects.)
It all came together one night when I was really tired and remembered JB had said this:
‘Well its one of the Laws (time travel) and Harry hasn’t broken it yet, so he will have too.’
So we have Mab, who knows way too much about what is going on and what will happen in the future, who can walk right thru all of Harry’s wards anytime she wants, who forced Harry into the position of Demonreach, somehow predicting that he would take that option…
We have Lea, quite interested in Molly, even back when she was a kid.
We have the entire darn book of Proven Guilty.
We have Molly, whom has powers of illusion, enchantment, and mind control.
We have Mab, whom was probably human once, quite legendary for her illusions, enchantments, and mind controls.
And we have Margaret Katherine Amanda Carpenter; Margaret from Marvarid, also spelled Margot, Marit, and Maeb..or as JB spells it, Mab.
Time travel + location of sidhe table + eternal regret of Harry … Molly is Mab.
As to the rest of the queens, I suspect they came later actually, (Mab says she IS Sidhe, not she IS A sidhe.)…Molly recruited them to balance her out, and end the ice age she accidentally started.
Or as others have suggested, her personality split into pieces..but im in favor of the recruiting idea.
Enjoy disproving.
... and they were all voted off the planet save MAB!
I'm finding it rather spookie that Little Chicago's missing and Harry dosen't know. I just figured it was under the tarp, but did find it odd he didn't use it.
I'm imagining this in a role playing situation
Player 1: My brother's missing and he's in trouble. I'll just use Little Chicago to find him.
GM: What's Little Chicago
Player 1: My replica of Chicago I spent all that time building. It's sitting on that table over there.
GM: All that's sitting on that table is a tarp... and that's all you remember ever being there.
So either it was under the tarp and he didn't "notice" it, or someone nicked it along with all his memories of it. I like the idea of it being nicked. That way it still exists and wasn't burnt up in the house fire. Eck! would real Chicago have burnt up if Little Chicago did? It has been described as a voodoo doll of Chicago before.
annother point of data:
in proven guilty, the three fetches enter the carpenter household, after blasting thru the fence, even tho that area has 'divine' protection; Harry reasons MOlly must have been decieved into inviting them in.
But the story from her brother implies they just forced their way in...
what if they were invited/ sent by Molly..just her 10,000 year older self?
i like the way you think so what if some one knew that in the near future that Harry's house was going to bern dow and that if it did it might actually hert the city of chicago s they tock it and the memories of him making it but why not then just stop him from making it in the first placeHe mentions Little Chicago in Changes.
Well sort of a joke.
Here is where it all came from:
JB has written that we all have missed two major clue bats in turn coat, and quite a few of us went gonzo trying to figure out what they are. I Believe it was He Whom Walks who first noted that in turn coat, when Harry is searching for Thomas, he does not use his most obvious tool, little Chicago. In fact, it’s not even mentioned in the book at all, unlike every other book when it is used or not, only referred too as a ‘tarp covered table.’
Second, Harry has nasty headaches throughout the entire book. Now there are several ideas about these headaches, many of them involving his brain damage, but especially in light of his not having them in changes, it seems clear these headaches are cause by someone messing with his head, just like the headaches he got in small favor when Mab messed with his head… hmmm…
Third, someone has messed with little Chicago before, during proven guilty, when Mab was involved oh so strangely with Molly. (more on that later.)
So, this led some of to speculate Mab had messed with Little Chicago again, or at least made Harry and Bob forget it existed at all. But Why?
Removing Little Chicago prevents Harry from finding Shaggy and Thomas directly. It has several results, but the largest is it forces Harry to bond with Demonreach, something that JB has written he ‘will deeply regret later.’ Note that Mab, at this point, has considerable other options; She could, for example, have just walked in and offered Harry the winter knight job in return for her help rescuing Thomas. Or unleashed Lea. And those are just the unsubtle options.
Ergo, if we follow this logic, Demonreach is important to Mab, and it is important to her that Harry have it. Why? Well, many possibilities, but in my scenario, it is because Demonreach is the earthly location of the sidhe table (it is directly below it, remember summer knight); this is where, 75,000 years ago, a mortal wizard ascended to become Mab, causing the last major ice age. ( And creating that lovely source of permanent dark magic the island’s warden protects.)
It all came together one night when I was really tired and remembered JB had said this:
‘Well its one of the Laws (time travel) and Harry hasn’t broken it yet, so he will have too.’
So we have Mab, who knows way too much about what is going on and what will happen in the future, who can walk right thru all of Harry’s wards anytime she wants, who forced Harry into the position of Demonreach, somehow predicting that he would take that option…
We have Lea, quite interested in Molly, even back when she was a kid.
We have the entire darn book of Proven Guilty.
We have Molly, whom has powers of illusion, enchantment, and mind control.
We have Mab, whom was probably human once, quite legendary for her illusions, enchantments, and mind controls.
And we have Margaret Katherine Amanda Carpenter; Margaret from Marvarid, also spelled Margot, Marit, and Maeb..or as JB spells it, Mab.
Time travel + location of sidhe table + eternal regret of Harry … Molly is Mab.
As to the rest of the queens, I suspect they came later actually, (Mab says she IS Sidhe, not she IS A sidhe.)…Molly recruited them to balance her out, and end the ice age she accidentally started.
Or as others have suggested, her personality split into pieces..but im in favor of the recruiting idea.
Enjoy disproving.
This is a neat theory --- but how do you account for the Mothers?
A Rite of Ascension might give you enough power to equal (or create) Mab, but Mother Winter and Mother Summer seem *vastly* beyond Mab and Titania.
Where do they fit in?
Or as others have suggested, her personality split into pieces.
This is a neat theory --- but how do you account for the Mothers?
A Rite of Ascension might give you enough power to equal (or create) Mab, but Mother Winter and Mother Summer seem *vastly* beyond Mab and Titania.
Where do they fit in?
No Molly was sent even further back, the whole ascension ritual involved the killing of all the dinosaurs on the earth. It was such a powerful magic that she had the create the Mothers to contain part of the power. the mothers are really just crude constructs. That's why we don't really see them doing much to influence the world. Molly, now calling herself Mab, created Titania at some point in all that time to have someone to compete with so she wouldn't kill herself from boredom. Molly is also the reason for the evolution of mankind which she encouraged in order to bring about herself and for something to do with all her time. ;D ;)
they still can be. and Molly/Mab is the one that locked them outside after the ritual. ;DThe ones she didn't eat. "Oh, am I stuffed. I'll just lock the leftovers in this cabinet to snack on later."
Just for the record no one has yet to poke a hole in the original idea. :)
yes but this theory is more plausible when you think about it
No, it really isn't. It's reasoning on the level of "if a little kid is good at basketball and tall, then he's probably going to be Michael Jordan once he travels back in time". Or, to stick with the books, it is like assuming Harry is the original Merlin since they are both wizards, kicked ass, believe in the Laws of Magic, and have had custody of a sword. Overall it is rather silly and is using a coincidence with a similarities or two to make a case for identity...but that just doesn't really hold up and there's counter evidence (such as the fact Molly has no skill with cold magic). You could just as easily say that Elaine is Mab (and Elaine has the advantage of not being covered in piercings).
No, it really isn't. It's reasoning on the level of "if a little kid is good at basketball and tall, then he's probably going to be Michael Jordan once he travels back in time". Or, to stick with the books, it is like assuming Harry is the original Merlin since they are both wizards, kicked ass, believe in the Laws of Magic, and have had custody of a sword. Overall it is rather silly and is using a coincidence with a similarities or two to make a case for identity...but that just doesn't really hold up and there's counter evidence (such as the fact Molly has no skill with cold magic). You could just as easily say that Elaine is Mab (and Elaine has the advantage of not being covered in piercings).
Relax and go with it. Remember, we're all people talking about our imaginary friends. Getting hung up on the mechanical details sort of gets put into perspective in that light. ;)
I just meant to make one small comment, honest. It's kinda snowballed into more than a I meant. *discretely exiting the thread*
Oh and welcome to the forum all you knew people !
;D
Second, What is this TT that keeps popping up. I get the jest, but I would like to
know precisely what it is.
"Mab knows crap that is explaiable only by divine foresight or absolute foreknoweldge." thing.
It just seems a little stretching to me.
I am firmly in the camp Molly is Molly :D
Well sort of a joke.
Here is where it all came from:
JB has written that we all have missed two major clue bats in turn coat, and quite a few of us went gonzo trying to figure out what they are. I Believe it was He Whom Walks who first noted that in turn coat, when Harry is searching for Thomas, he does not use his most obvious tool, little Chicago. In fact, it’s not even mentioned in the book at all, unlike every other book when it is used or not, only referred too as a ‘tarp covered table.’
Second, Harry has nasty headaches throughout the entire book. Now there are several ideas about these headaches, many of them involving his brain damage, but especially in light of his not having them in changes, it seems clear these headaches are cause by someone messing with his head, just like the headaches he got in small favor when Mab messed with his head… hmmm…
Third, someone has messed with little Chicago before, during proven guilty, when Mab was involved oh so strangely with Molly. (more on that later.)
So, this led some of to speculate Mab had messed with Little Chicago again, or at least made Harry and Bob forget it existed at all. But Why?
Removing Little Chicago prevents Harry from finding Shaggy and Thomas directly. It has several results, but the largest is it forces Harry to bond with Demonreach, something that JB has written he ‘will deeply regret later.’ Note that Mab, at this point, has considerable other options; She could, for example, have just walked in and offered Harry the winter knight job in return for her help rescuing Thomas. Or unleashed Lea. And those are just the unsubtle options.
Ergo, if we follow this logic, Demonreach is important to Mab, and it is important to her that Harry have it. Why? Well, many possibilities, but in my scenario, it is because Demonreach is the earthly location of the sidhe table (it is directly below it, remember summer knight); this is where, 75,000 years ago, a mortal wizard ascended to become Mab, causing the last major ice age. ( And creating that lovely source of permanent dark magic the island’s warden protects.)
It all came together one night when I was really tired and remembered JB had said this:
‘Well its one of the Laws (time travel) and Harry hasn’t broken it yet, so he will have too.’
So we have Mab, who knows way too much about what is going on and what will happen in the future, who can walk right thru all of Harry’s wards anytime she wants, who forced Harry into the position of Demonreach, somehow predicting that he would take that option…
We have Lea, quite interested in Molly, even back when she was a kid.
We have the entire darn book of Proven Guilty.
We have Molly, whom has powers of illusion, enchantment, and mind control.
We have Mab, whom was probably human once, quite legendary for her illusions, enchantments, and mind controls.
And we have Margaret Katherine Amanda Carpenter; Margaret from Marvarid, also spelled Margot, Marit, and Maeb..or as JB spells it, Mab.
Time travel + location of sidhe table + eternal regret of Harry … Molly is Mab.
As to the rest of the queens, I suspect they came later actually, (Mab says she IS Sidhe, not she IS A sidhe.)…Molly recruited them to balance her out, and end the ice age she accidentally started.
Or as others have suggested, her personality split into pieces..but im in favor of the recruiting idea.
Enjoy disproving.
You crazy person you! What insanity! What madness! Off with your head!
I am so amused that people seem to be giving this theory serious thought.
A quick question to those who believe Mab fixed the Little Chicago: Couldn't Lea have fixed it as well? We find out that Lea has been protecting Harry from nevernever side with a flower garden. She's always been close to him and helping him in little ways(rescue from the fire in bianca's party, old lady voice impersonation to save Harry from Grum, etc). We also know she is second only to Mab, since Aurora said Lea was stronger than Maeve and Mab herself said Lea is second only to her. Lea had the motivation and the power to fix it right? Wouldn't that theory be more likely than Mab?Has Molly ever expressed an ardent desire to turn Harry into a dog?
If so, wouldn't Molly be Lea?
To last poster, sort of...depends what you mean by "dog"I don't understand this fascination with kittens, but adding a monkey in a hat, now that's a thread.
Btw, the only thing that would make this thread more awesome is a cryptic post by Butcher himself.
And a kitten.
The real question is why mab intervened; and allso why she wanted harry bound to the isle. There are serious threads about that..this is not one of them. :DShe wanted Harry bound to the Isle? I never got that from reading the books.