It would be nice if we could feed this to one of those project-management applictions, see where the wriggle-room is and whether there are any contradictions.
It would be nice if we could feed this to one of those project-management applictions, see where the wriggle-room is and whether there are any contradictions.
Wow! I didnt realize how much the timeline had grown!
Priscillie... you going to keep the TV show series timeline, too?
*ducks*
If anybody has a preference for an open-source program which will do the trick, I'm willing to give it a go.It would be nice if we could feed this to one of those project-management applictions, see where the wriggle-room is and whether there are any contradictions.
Did someone just volunteer? ;)
I agree. I just like the pretty graphs and the complicated mucking about.It would be nice if we could feed this to one of those project-management applictions, see where the wriggle-room is and whether there are any contradictions.
Well, I think I did a fairly adequate job using the project-management application in my head, given the limited amount of info Jim has given us. The only evidence that seems actively contradictory is the David Copperfield vs. Smallpox Scar conundrum, which has even now gone by the wayside since Jim has given us a more accurate timeline of Harry's life before he opened his detective agency. I tentatively put Storm Front in 2001.
Fool Moon, page 222. Malcolm Dresden died, specifically, of a brain aneurism. I knew I wasn't imagining things. :) (well, of course there is the whole withheld information of Chauncy, but...)
AD
Yes yes, but I feel like complicating it with more detail than absolutely necessary. :)
What? Two weeks ago, I rescued your unborn future child from time-traveling cyberzombies, and I'm your hero today? You have weird priorities, Darrington.
Reread Grave Peril last night, and I have a potential query for placing it in October; Harry's last conversation with Susan takes place with her in a bikini outdoors getting some sun on one of the last warm days of the year - is this plausible for early October on the shores of Lake Michigan, and if not, would moving it back into late September make a big difference ?
Also, "Lydia", for whom I did not see a specific age but whom I was reading as around 19-22, remembers having had a prophetic dream of people trying to kill the President; her being old enough to have had that dream about the Hinckley assassination attempt on Reagan in 1981 also seems a bit of a stretch. [ Assuming she would have to be old enough to remember and make sense of it, and that that was not a dream she had when she was six months old or something. ]
Also also, is the last time Charity saw Harry, when Michael was wounded in some way, being five years before Grave Peril, worth including on the timeline ? The more I think about it the more I want to know what exactly happened then, and where Michael actually was during Storm Front and Fool Moon, it would be way out of character for him not to have helped in those situations if he had been around; if he wasn't living in Chicago then, what prompted him to move back, and where did Harry meet him in the first place ?
Reread Grave Peril last night, and I have a potential query for placing it in October; Harry's last conversation with Susan takes place with her in a bikini outdoors getting some sun on one of the last warm days of the year - is this plausible for early October on the shores of Lake Michigan, and if not, would moving it back into late September make a big difference ?
5 BSF: At age 22-23, Harry starts working with Nicholas Christian ("Nick") at Ragged Angel. He spent three years there.
Reread Grave Peril last night, and I have a potential query for placing it in October; Harry's last conversation with Susan takes place with her in a bikini outdoors getting some sun on one of the last warm days of the year - is this plausible for early October on the shores of Lake Michigan, and if not, would moving it back into late September make a big difference ?
From the National Weather service records for Illinois:
ROCKFORD... OCTOBER 3, 1997: THIS WAS THE SECOND DAY IN A SEVEN DAY HEAT WAVE THAT SENT HIGH TEMPERATURES PAST THE 80 DEGREE MARK. ON THIS DATE...THE HIGH REACHED 90 DEGREES WHICH TIED THE RECORD PREVIOUSLY SET IN 1922. ALTHOUGH THIS WAS THE ONLY RECORD ESTABLISHED OVER THE SEVEN DAY PERIOD...TEMPERATURES WERE AROUND 15 TO 20 DEGREES ABOVE NORMAL.
Rockford is a little to the northwest of Chicago, so that means it was unseasonably warm in Chicago until at least October 8th. How does 1997 work as a date for GP? I can't access the first page of this tread at present--every time I try the connection resets.
Quote5 BSF: At age 22-23, Harry starts working with Nicholas Christian ("Nick") at Ragged Angel. He spent three years there.
Before this he worked as a partner for the 'older crowd' for a ballroom dance class. It's mentioned in Death Masks (while Harry and Susan are doing their dance escape). I'll look up the page number when I get home.
"When I first came to Chicago, I had a bunch of jobs until I hooked up with Nick Christian at Ragged Angel Investigations. One of them was as a dance partner with a senior-citizen organization."
(see the timeline),
(see the timeline),
Can't. Connection still resets every time I try to view page 1.
"Regardless, you needed to realize that you do love the woman. After Elaine, I thought you might isolate yourself too much and never—"
Kinda sounds like he knew Harry all the way back when he was DuMorne's apprentice, or at least shortly afterwards. Thoughts?
4-6 BSF: The White Council holds their last trial for a known violator of the laws of magic. In 6 ASF, Molly will be the first wizard to be tried in 10-12 years.Remind me again about the young chap at the beginning of "Proven Guilty": was he just summarily convicted without a trial?
Just noticed, Blood Rites, p.219, Bob, tired: "I've got about six hundred years worth of memories to sort through in here." Meaningful to pin Bob's origin down to late fourteenth/early fifteenth century ?
Series (After Storm Front)
0 ASF, April: Storm Front. Harry is 27 or 28, and he's been wizarding professionally for two years. As an anonymous reader points out, "I was just starting Storm Front again, and I noticed this:QuoteThe end of the twentieth century and the dawn of the new millennium had seen something of a renaissance in the public awareness of the paranormal...which would seem to imply that the events of Storm Front take place no earlier than 2000." I'm guessing 2002 at the very earliest, meaning that the Dresden books occur a few years into the future with respect to when they're published.
I'm tired of living in the shadows...It was ME! I'm the anonymous tipster...but seriously, did I forget to sign that email?
Regarding Murphy's timeline i've always been a bit bothered by it...For one thing, she's a teenager with a very protective mother (BR..She had to sneak out of the house to attend her senior prom) but she's allowed to marry a man 13 years older than she is? does that amek sense to anyone?
I mean for one thing that would mean that a thirty year old was dating a seventeen year old..Where I come from that is called statutory rape (Well, it is if you actually do anything..otherwise it's just plain icky..).
Second, and more importantly, Murph is a LT. at the time of SF (and has been so for some time based on the vigenette) which means she acheived her rank at the ripe old age of no more than 27...Let me get this straight..She;s a young beat cop when she meets Harry and helps save Hope and four or five years later she's a LT.? Does anyone see what is wrong with this? No one gets to be an LT. in a large police force without gaining seniority and there's no way she'd have enough of that at 25-27.
Regarding 17 being legal...Not in almost all the US except with permission of the parent..you really think that Mama Murphy would allow her eldest daughter to date someone 13 years older than her ..at 17 (Not 18..she was 17 at the time)
Age of consent in Illinois (and thus Chicago) is 17. Not to say a 30 year old dating/marrying a 17 year old isn't creepy.
For those curious, here's the logic that went into the calculation:
In "Blood Rites," we learn that Murphy's youngest sister, Lisa, is a month short of 21. This book takes place in the late Autumn of 4 ASF.
We know Collin Murphy committed suicide when Karrin was 11, so Karrin can be a maximum of 12 years older than Lisa (in the case that he died before Lisa was born, but after she was conceived).
Therefore, in 4 ASF, Karrin is a maximum of 33 years old, or a maximum of 31 at the time of "Summer Knight."
In Summer Knight (2 ASF), Murphy's first husband's obituary states he was 41 years old. Therefore, there is a minimum of ten years' difference between the two of them.
Murphy herself says she was 17 when she and Gregory Taggart were married.
Now of course, this is assuming the far outside possibilities in age. It's more likely that there's 10 or 11 years' difference in age between Karrin and Lisa. The difference can't be too small, as Murphy needs to be old enough to have attained her rank. With 29 as the upper limit in "Storm Front," I'm guessing 27 as a lower limit.
I'm puzzled as to where I got 13 as the age difference between Karrin and Gregory. Eleven or twelve is far more likely, though I don't dismiss 13 as a possibility.
Hi everybody. I've been lurking around these boards for a while. You guys were asking about Elaine's last name? It is mentioned in the Publisher's Weekly review of White Night that her name is Elaine Mallory. How accurate this is, well, it's anyone's guess.
Gots annother math problem for yall---
how old do you think Victor's daughter would be circa WN ?
because if one female apprentice is fun for Harry-- two would be hilarious.
Where does he say this? He says in Proven Guilty that it comes down in family lines, but I don't remember any statement that it's matrilinear.
Alright, I just had a brain lock..At the cost of seeming really stupid...Who the heck is Victor? Not Kravos..i don't recall any discussion of his children from Grave Peril...This is bugging me because i recall the description of the children but can't place it...
tud
The one who was making the Third-Eye drug?
Hey, here's something about WN which is spoily without ruinning it for everyone...Who's in it?
I mean Besides Harry, of course!*G*
I know that we have Murph and Molly. I also know that 'Los puts in an appearance but how big a part does Butters and Thomas have and who else is involved (Besides Lash)?
tud..thanks for both letting know about ole Vic and not lambasting me about such a lapse..
Okay, I didn't see that this had been mentioned yet, if it has, sorry. At the beginning of Chapter 19 in Proven Guilty, Harry mentions that the Unseelie Accords had taken place 10 to 12 years earlier. I guess that puts Proven Guilty in 2004 to 2006?
Also, while I can't remember if there's any evidence to support this theory, I always assumed there have been more than one set of Unseelie Accords, just like our Geneva Conventions.
Extra datapoint I just noticed, Bob talking to Harry about Kemmler in chapter 3 of Dead Beat mentions that he worked for Kemmler for forty years, which gives us a Kemmler-finds-Bob date of 1921 or so.
George H.W. Bush
April 13, 1993: Sixteen suspected terrorists, in the employ of Saddam Hussein's Iraq, smuggled a car bomb into Kuwait with the intent of killing Bush as he spoke at Kuwait University. The plot was foiled when Kuwaiti officials found the bomb and arrested the suspected assassins. Bush had left office in January 1993. On June 26, 1993, the U.S. launched a missile attack targeting Baghdad intelligence headquarters in retaliation for the attempted attack against Bush.
Bill Clinton
October 29, 1994: Francisco Martin Duran fired at least 29 shots with a semi-automatic rifle at the White House from Pennsylvania Avenue, outside the south lawn, thinking that Clinton was among the men in dark suits standing there (Clinton was in the White House Residence watching a football game). No one was hurt and Duran was sentenced to 40 years in prison.
George W. Bush
May 10, 2005: While Bush was giving a speech in the Freedom Square in Tbilisi, Georgia, Vladimir Arutinian threw a live Soviet-made RGD-5 hand grenade towards the podium where he was standing and where Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili and their two wives and officials were seated. It landed in the crowd 18.6 metres (61 feet) from the podium after hitting a girl, but did not detonate because the red tartan (plaid) handkerchief wrapped tightly around it didn't allow the firing pin to deploy fast enough.[
Arutinian was arrested in July 2005 and admitted to throwing the grenade. He was convicted in January 2006, and was given a life sentence.
Remind me again about the young chap at the beginning of "Proven Guilty": was he just summarily convicted without a trial?
I know they talked about procedures and stuff: soul-gazes were involved if I recall correctly. Did this not constitute a trial?
“Warden Dresden,” he said. He had the sonorous voice of a trained speaker, and spoke English with a high-class British accent. “If you had some evidence that you felt would prove the boy’s innocence, you should have presented it during the trial.”
“I didn’t have anything like that, and you know it,” I replied.
“He was proven guilty,” the Merlin said. “I soulgazed him myself. I examined more than two dozen mortals whose minds he had altered. Three of them might eventually recover their sanity. He forced four others to commit suicide, and had hidden nine corpses from the local authorities, as well. And every one of them was a blood relation.” The Merlin stepped toward me, and the air in the room suddenly felt hot. His eyes flashed with azure anger and his voice rumbled with deep, unyielding power. “The powers he had used had already broken his mind. We did what was necessary.”
“You’ve captured a warlock?” the woman asked.
“She turned herself in, full cooperation. There are extenuating circumstances around it. I want her to have a hearing.”
“A hearing…” the young woman said. I heard paper rustling. “Warden, I’m sorry, but I don’t think we do hearings anymore.”
“Sure we do,” I said. “We just haven’t had one for ten or twelve years. Pass word to command and tell them we’ll use the same location, sundown tomorrow.
Fool Moon, page 222. Malcolm Dresden died, specifically, of a brain aneurism. I knew I wasn't imagining things. :) (well, of course there is the whole withheld information of Chauncy, but...)
My father sat across the fire from me.
Malcolm Dresden was a tall, spare man with dark hair and steady blue eyes. His jeans were as heavily worn as his leather hiking boots, and I could see that he was wearing his favorite red-and-white flannel shirt under his fleece-lined hunting jacket. He leaned forward and stirred the pot, then took a sip from the spoon.
I just ran a search, and the only reference I can find is in chapter 11 of Dead Beat, when dream!Malcolm visits Harry. I'm stunned. I could have sworn I remembered other references to his name.
I just ran a search, and the only reference I can find is in chapter 11 of Dead Beat, when dream!Malcolm visits Harry. I'm stunned. I could have sworn I remembered other references to his name.
Do you have the books on your comp so you can just ctrl-f? I guess that's pretty handy for stuff like this. I wondered how you found all the passages that you quote in the forums.
just a thought-- you might want to adjust Carlos BD a little bit back; In DB Carlos mentions ( while on Sue I think) that he was an apprentice at Harry's trail for Justin's murder. According to the timeline as is, that would make him about 8-10 years old at that point?
Yup. :D
I asked Jim about it, and he said Carlos was referring to Harry's trial in "Summer Knight." Check out his post here (http://www.jim-butcher.com/bb/index.php?topic=2320.msg51728#msg51728).
... you might want to adjust Carlos BD a little bit back; In DB Carlos mentions ( while on Sue I think) that he was an apprentice at Harry's trail for Justin's murder. According to the timeline as is, that would make him about 8-10 years old at that point? ...
I asked Jim about it, and he said Carlos was referring to Harry's trial in "Summer Knight." Check out his post here (http://www.jim-butcher.com/bb/index.php?topic=2320.msg51728#msg51728).
DB, p. 290 = Carlos in brown robe, during a Council meeting (probably SK).
DB, p. 404 = "A lot of them, like me, were apprentices when you were first tried after Justin DuMorne's death."
Based on chadu's post, I'm a bit confused...
The quote from DB p404 doesn't synch with Jim's response...
To me it looks like we're actually talking about two different things - one is where Harry remembers seeing Carlos, which is the Council meeting in SK (young apprentice hiding his grin).
The other is Carlos' knowledge of Harry (DB p 404) - he says he was an apprentice at the time of Harry's trial RE DuMorne, not that he was at the trial. I haven't seen anything that says someone couldn't be an apprentice at age 8-10... didn't Justin come get Harry when he was 10? I would think that you can become an apprentice at whatever age your magic begins to manifest, as long as someone takes you in.
Maybe this is a moot point, since it's been a while since the last post. I was just trying to work through the references and Jim's response. Sometimes it helps if I spell it out. (Bad pun not intended)
Based on chadu's post, I'm a bit confused...
The quote from DB p404 doesn't synch with Jim's response...
To me it looks like we're actually talking about two different things - one is where Harry remembers seeing Carlos, which is the Council meeting in SK (young apprentice hiding his grin).
The other is Carlos' knowledge of Harry (DB p 404) - he says he was an apprentice at the time of Harry's trial RE DuMorne, not that he was at the trial. I haven't seen anything that says someone couldn't be an apprentice at age 8-10... didn't Justin come get Harry when he was 10? I would think that you can become an apprentice at whatever age your magic begins to manifest, as long as someone takes you in.
I agree with you that Jim's comment and the quote from Carlos seem a little at odds. To me, the wording in Carlos' quote sounds like he was referring to the trial when Harry was 16. I think we have to assume it was just a slip in word craft.
On the other hand, yes, I think apprentices would start when their talent emerged for safety sake considering that the lack appears to produce warlocks on a regular basis. Harry and Elaine seemed to have blossomed around 10, somewhat later for Molly.
Actually, he was talking about Harry's confrontation with the White Council in "Summer Knight." :) If you read the scene with the Senior Council again, there's a mention of a young apprentice in a brown robe hiding a grin behind one hand.
IE, Ramirez. :)
Jim
Is this in the time line?
Harry found Mister 3 years BSF, SF paperback p88
Someone else mentioned it, and it bears repeating. Not that this timeline isn't already expansive and impressive (thank you for working on it) but wouldn't it be good to include Marcone on there?
(the incident regarding Beckitt's daughter, Marcone's rise to power, encounters with Dresden, becoming a Freelord in the Unseelie Accords)
Jim had no specific time frame in mind for Vignette (http://www.jim-butcher.com/books/dresden/vignette/), though I like to place it after SK, noting the reference to unicorns not being fun and prancy.
From Death Masks: I went down to a nearby diner for breakfast, and asked the waitress to turn on the news. She did.
"… extraordinary event reminiscent of the science-fiction horror stories around the turn of the millennium, what appeared to be an asteroid fell from space and impacted just outside the village of Casaverde in Honduras." The screen flickered to an aerial shot of an enormous, smoking hole in the ground, and a half-mile-wide circle of trees that had been blasted flat
Dictionary.com entry for reminiscent (http://)It just means something that reminds you of past events, usually in your own life experiences.
rem·i·nis·cent / Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[rem-uh-nis-uhnt]
–adjective 1. awakening memories of something similar; suggestive (usually fol. by of): His style of writing is reminiscent of Melville's.
2. characterized by or of the nature of reminiscence.
3. given to reminiscence: a reminiscent old sailor.
BTW, what I originally got out of that line from the announcer is that it was more a reference to around the 1900's, to be honest. Basically, a reference to H.G. Wells' novel War of the Worlds with the description of something falling to earth. I guess Mr. Butcher might well have meant that - or he might have been referencing the movies you mentioned - Armageddon, Deep Impact, etc...
Nothing personal, but I think you're over thinking the use of the word reminiscent.
It just means something that reminds you of past events, usually in your own life experiences.
BTW, what I originally got out of that line from the announcer is that it was more a reference to around the 1900's, to be honest. Basically, a reference to H.G. Wells' novel War of the Worlds with the description of something falling to earth. I guess Mr. Butcher might well have meant that - or he might have been referencing the movies you mentioned - Armageddon, Deep Impact, etc...
Where's Molly's age given in White Night? Is there a chance that it's an unreliable narrator?
I stripped the glove off my left hand and held it up, my fingers spread. It didn't look as horrific as it used to, but it was plenty ugly enough to make an impression on a nineteen-year-old girl.
Molly, my apprentice, was just barely out of her teens, and it was impossible not to notice what great legs she had when she stripped out of her trendily mangled jeans. She wrinkled her nose as she tossed them into the kitchen trash can. "Have I told you how much I love the wizard business, Harry?"
Where's heorot fall? The following October after It's my Birthday too?
I guess there's not much point in debate over the subject, since there was no intended time period for it, but I think the Vignette could have happened after DM, too, from this quote of Bob's:
"Okay, fine. Suppose we throw intelligence to the winds and only print the truth. 'Vampire slayer, ghost remover, faerie fighter, werewolf exterminator, police consultant, foe of the footsoldiers of Hell.'"
The "footsoldiers of Hell" phrase might be a reference to the Denarians. Of course, given their usual temperament and dastardly deeds, I suppose the term could be applied to most of Harry's enemies, but it seems to apply most readily to the Bad Penny Brigade.
I noticed a typo in Malcolm Dresden's timeline. Aneurysm is spelled with a "y" not an "i"
Historians as far as I know cant agree and place it anywhere from a few centuries AD in the decline of the Roman Empire all the way up to the 12th century or so during the time of chivalry.
But if Merlin was on the latter end of things, it would mean that it had already lasted near a millennium before he got it, and might indicate a more philosophical difference between the sword of Love and the swords of Faith and Duty. Im working on a Fidelacchius theory, but I wont clutter this thread up with it ;)
This is not really a subject for debate among serious historians any more, because there are Arthur stories going back to the early sixth century (Nennius' Historia Brittonum, the Annales Cambriae, a fair bit of indirect stuff in Gildas, who was born the year of the Battle of Badon); something held up the Saxons for two generations after the Romans left Britain, but, well, they call it a Dark Age because people are too busy staying alive to document it properly.Sweet, Thanks.
All depends on how well the sword was taken care of, and the Knights do seem inclined to take good care of their swords; staying in good shape over a millennium with a sequence of careful owners does not to me scream out some specific magical intervention causing this to happen.But they weren't careful owners; two thousand years of constant active use will wear and chip even the strongest of blades. Sharpening alone would take its toll after that long. And that doesn't explain why Amoracchius is the only one never to have been reworked when the other two have been many times.
Yes, at the oldest, Amoracchius is roughly 7-8 centuries old at least as long/broadsword's were not developed until the 1300's.
Don't make me hurt you. :D
*LOL* awwww go on, a timeline for the series would be neat :)
Yes, at the oldest, Amoracchius is roughly 7-8 centuries old at least as long/broadsword's were not developed until the 1300's.
I know this isn't the place for this, but since it's being discussed, is Amoracchius a broadsword or a longsword?
I don't know if this has been pointed out before, but eBay was only aquired by Paypal in October 2002, so as Priscellie points out in every post (I only noticed the sig, last week. Cool!!!), the earliest PG can be take place is July 2003.
Also, as previously shown, The latest Death Masks could have taken place was Feb. 2001. (TWA stopped flying in Dec. 2001)
Since (according to the second post in this thread) DM takes place 3 years before PG, we have seem to have two choices:
DM - Feb. 2000, PG - July 2003
DM - Feb. 2001, PG - July 2004
Hart.
Great detective work, Hart! However, I think those factors--especially the TWA thing--are likely slipups on Jim's part rather than indicators of the time. Having DM take place in 2000 or 2001 would mean that SF took place in 1997 or 1998, and therefore that Harry was born around 1972, a full two years before a young David Copperfield adopted that stage name. On the other hand, the airport security in DM does feel pre-9/11. Hmm.Poor Jim we pressure him to write faster then pick apart at the continuality.
Poor Jim we pressure him to write faster then pick apart at the continuality..
Maybe in in Dresden's world TWA was more successful? Maybe this is a hint that the CEO of TWA is magically talented (Maybe he's even the Gatekeeper/Cowl) ;D ;D ;DThey had a deal with Monoc... *pauses to imagine Ms. Gard in a stewardess uniform* ;D
In Restoration of Faith, Harry mentions "the Vargassis working out of Little Italy" in passing... implying to me that Marcone hadn't yet become the head honcho. OTOH, he seems to be pretty much established by SF to the point that Harry can talk about how crime has changed since he took over. Therefore, would 2 BSF be a good approximation for Marcone's rise to power?
4-6 BSF: The White Council holds their last hearing for a known violator of the laws of magic. In 6 ASF, Molly will be the first wizard to be tried in 10-12 years.
Um what about the korean kid I think that they put on trial and than behead?
Near the opening of PG.
Or did they skip the trial and just swing the sword?
Reasons:
1) The Obvious - Harry had to "exist" for the spell to lock to him. So at minimum it would have to have occurred within 8 months of his birth.
2) Baby Hair - In PG, Harry fails to find Molly using her baby hair. Bob states that this is because babies are mailable and Molly is no longer what she was then. If you extend that concept to a fetus, well, anyone who has seen a sonogram knows that an early pregnancy fetus does not much resemble a baby. The changes during this period are radical therefore it would make sense to wait as long as possible for that fetus to be very near it's completed development prior to trying to imprint it.
So in my book this would place the casting of the spell in the Third Trimester minimum, I think one could safely say October.
Just an idea, here-- things like hair or a picture or whatever are only necessary if you need to create a symbolic link to another person or object. I'm guessing that, if the other person is actually with you constantly, and is in fact inside of your own body, no such symbolic link is necessary. You're already touching them, so you probably have all you need to open a magical channel between you and them. In fact, with pregnancy being such a special case, one might speculate that there could be a constant, inseparable magical link between the mother and the child until the child is born and the umbilical cord is cut.Agreed Blood relation, especially the parent-child one, is a strong link in itself. Remember what Bob said about anchoring spells in bloodlines, like the loup-garou
0-1 BSF, late winter?: Thomas and Justine become involved. This is "nearly five years" before the events of Blood Rites, which takes place in late Autumn of 4 BSF [BR 14]. Justine is about 16, and Thomas is probably in his early- to mid-thirties. At the risk of sounding judgemental, eww.lol, i never knew he was THAT old XD BUT i guess age could be reletive, i would think that WC Vamps age slower than humans.
cool, with the info on Thomas, i can better.... well understand things for something.Weird. I always picture him as younger, but then he has to be older than Harry.
lol, i never knew he was THAT old XD BUT i guess age could be reletive, i would think that WC Vamps age slower than humans.
Weird. I always picture him as younger, but then he has to be older than Harry.wel, like i said. Thomas might be old in age, but he probably still looks quite young, upper 20's maybe. i would think that WC Vamps, being the semi-imortals they are, would age much slower. like how Wizards can live for many canturies before looking their age, WC Vamps would as well. they would carry that trait.
wel, like i said. Thomas might be old in age, but he probably still looks quite young, upper 20's maybe. i would think that WC Vamps, being the semi-imortals they are, would age much slower. like how Wizards can live for many canturies before looking their age, WC Vamps would as well. they would carry that trait.true. Plus if anything is going to age gracefully, it would be the come-hitherers. Besides, didnt they once say that Lara was a few centuries old?
Thank you very much for the timeline. I can see how a *lot* of work went into that.
I'm curious about the date for Ivy's birth. Could it be earlier? Perhaps by a year?
The events around her birth make me go "Hmmm"
Why do you ask?
this leads me to a thing...
when we first meet Ivy, she tells Harry that her mother is in a "persistive vegitative state" (and where have we heard that before? heh.)
but...(click to show/hide)
i is confuzled!!!
Re: Molly's age.
if i followed the gist close enough, molly was 17ALMOST18. thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis close to it.
so, when a year later she is 19, is it exactly a year, or is a year and couple months, or was there time dialation in Winter that affected her more or something?
does it say how old Molly is in SmF?
that may set her age back on track... (i would go look, but i lent my copy to my boyfriend's roommate...)
or it may change when the b/day story took place?
don't mind me, i get goofy ideas that i can help and then its never helpful
"A" is a broadword, and is the only one of the Three that has not been modified, meaning it's always been a broadsword. broadswords were developed and used as early as 1000 A.D., so unless it was the progenitor of all broadswords, Amorrachius (and possibly the Knights) is no older than a millenia (+/-)
Doesn't work if it's Excalibur, though; Annales Cambriae records Arthur's reign as 519 - 537 [ Badon to Camlann ]. Though Gildas records Badon as 570, the year of Gildas' own birth; there is some flex there, but not five centuries.Wait - do the Annales Cambriae actually refer to Arthur as a king?
Wait - do the Annales Cambriae actually refer to Arthur as a king?
Her age isn't given in SmF, but in "It's My Birthday Too," she's "just out of her teens," which only works with the WN "missing year" chronology. If we go by DM/PG chronology, she should be 19. At least he's consistent about his error. :D
Maybe it is not an error, we know she was taken in PG, but do we know how long she was gone int he Nevernever? Does time there work at the same rate as the rest of the Dresdenverse?
You have WAY TOO MUCH TIME ON YOUR HANDS!!
Yes. Yes, I do. And this is why I'm a beta. :D
Yes. Yes, I do. And this is why I'm a beta. :DSo, if we have lots of time we can be betas?
It's certainly a possibility, but... I think we would have found out if she was in Arctis Tor an entire year! Or even the 2+ months, which would be enough time for Molly to have the two birthdays.
What I thought was odd about Molly and Arctis Tor is she says she has no memory of events from about (I am guessing) from her getting jumped at the Carpenter House to Harry and company saving her from the evil Fetches. What happened during that time? There may have been time travel or time dialation. Murphy lost a day at Arctis Tor. I think Molly is speeding up time for herself so she will be 21 sooner and old enough to drink.
I don't think "But I was trapped in a time vortex!" would fly with the nice police officer asking why she was drinking when the date on her driver's license gives her two years to go. :D
Molly's good with illusions. She could make her driver's license date appear to change to another date like the Doctor's psychic paper. Actually Jim is much better than most authors in consistency. It is nearly impossible writing so many books not to make a few errors. Do apprentices get to take their WC wizard trials at a minimum age such as 21 or when their master feels they are ready?Trials or no, that would be one hell of a 21st birthday party. I hope they manage to keep the property damage to a minimum. ;D
You have WAY TOO MUCH TIME ON YOUR HANDS!!
4 ASF, Summer: Mold demons pwn the Beetle's interior. They were "a present from the guest villain a few months ago," whatever that means. *grin* Also, Harry travels to "exotic Oklahoma" and runs down a rogue storm sylph as a favor to the Summer Lady.In WN {ch 19} Harry tells Elaine that it was fungus demons that ate his car's interior 'right down to the metal'.
I don't know if this has been pointed out (I didn't see it; I did check first!), or how relevant it may be, as, like the eBay thing, it could easily be a case of real-time circumstances, but in Fool Moon Harry mentions driving by Cook County Hospital:Seems solid to me. When did the construction on the Stroger building begin? If Fool Moon takes place in October of 2002, that only leaves one, maybe two months until it opens. OTOH, if it takes place in 2001, that leaves a full year and a bit.
"I drove past Cook County Hospital, a virtual city of its own inside Chicago," (Fool Moon, 39, paperback).
Cook Country was replaced in late 2002/early 2003 with the John H. Stroger, Jr. Hospital of Cook County, which Harry mentions in Small Favor:
"The Stroger building, the new hospital that has replaced the old Cook County complex as Chicago’s nerve center of medicine" (Small Favor, 392, hardcover).
I'd say this places Fool Moon pre-2003 (I am tempted to extrapolate on the fact that no mention of the construction adjacent to Cook County was made, but that's just me getting too caught up), and Small Favor after, possibly recently after.
I'm tempted to combine that with the mention of "that pirate movie" (Small Favor, 77 hardcover), which is vague enough that it may or may not have been released in July 2003, and put Small Favor at the end of 2003. (Mind, there was another "pirates" movie that was released in 2005 that I can quite imagine Bob wanting to see, but I can't quite imagine it showing at a drive-in in Aurora, or Harry sitting through it with a pervy skull on the dashboard.)The problem with this is that it compresses all the books between Fool Moon (or Grave Peril) and Small Favor into one year (2003). This is clearly impossible, as numerous places in the books (referenced in the timeline) refer to months passing between each book - I believe the longest gap is between Death Masks and Blood Rites, which if I'm reading right seems to be more than a year and a half.
When did the construction on the Stroger building begin? If Fool Moon takes place in October of 2002, that only leaves one, maybe two months until it opens. OTOH, if it takes place in 2001, that leaves a full year and a bit.
Also, it just occurred to me that the first chapters of Grave Peril also take place at Cook, almost exactly a year later. this would seem to force the issue, dating Grave Peril to 2002 and Fool Moon, and consequently Storm Front, to 2001 - literally, "The end of the twentieth century and the dawn of the new millennium".
The problem with this is that it compresses all the books between Fool Moon (or Grave Peril) and Small Favor into one year (2003). This is clearly impossible, as numerous places in the books (referenced in the timeline) refer to months passing between each book - I believe the longest gap is between Death Masks and Blood Rites, which if I'm reading right seems to be more than a year and a half.
However, there was more than one "that pirate movie", the latest of which came out in 2007 and, assuming Small Favor takes place in November 2009* (!), that leaves plenty of time for it to trickle down to the drive-in, which I assume probably isn't very high on the blockbuster distribution chain. Actually, by that logic, it could, in fact, be the first "pirate movie". ;)
~1436: Vlad Tepesh, father of Dracula, is born.
Query for our Industrious Timeline Gnome: is Turn Coat happening the summer six monthsish after Small Favour or the summer eighteen monthsish thereafter ?
The reason I ask is a Turn Coat first chapter spoiler, to wit:.(click to show/hide)
It's a year and a half after.
I thought what he actually said was that it had been(click to show/hide)
-Poobs
Heres a question for you, when did luccio come back from sabbatical? Mentioned in SK, during the council meeting.
I don't think we've ever gotten confirmation that Luccio and Luciozzi are the same person. In fact, I'm confident they aren't. The list was being read in order of age, and Luccio is over a century younger than Ebenezar.Does Seniority=Age in the White Council? In the council meeting Injun Joe said there were people senior to the german in "experience and Art" which I had always assumed meant that both age and magical prowess were factors. And Luccio, while being relatively young(ish) was introduced as being next in line for a high council seat in DB.
And Luccio, while being relatively young(ish) was introduced as being next in line for a high council seat in DB.
I've had a little spare time, and i stumbled upon a really nice Timeline Tool, so i gave it a go.
It's still in its early stages, so there may be mistakes.
The Blue Lines over the individual events usually show the spread for those events that can not be exactly placed.
In some few cases they show the actual duration of the event.
This Timeline is based on the assumption that 0 ASF ist the year 2000.
have fun.
http://www.musterpuffer.de/JB/df/dftime.html
I've had a little spare time, and i stumbled upon a really nice Timeline Tool, so i gave it a go.
It's still in its early stages, so there may be mistakes.
The Blue Lines over the individual events usually show the spread for those events that can not be exactly placed.
In some few cases they show the actual duration of the event.
This Timeline is based on the assumption that 0 ASF ist the year 2000.
have fun.
http://www.musterpuffer.de/JB/df/dftime.html
25-26 BSF, October 31: Harry is born. Harry's mother, now Margaret Gwendolyn Dresden, dies in childbirth. She is murdered by a ritual entropy curse, courtesy of Lord Raith.
17-18 BSF: At age 10, Harry manifests his magical abilities and is adopted by Justin DuMorne a few weeks later. Elaine Mallory is adopted soon after.
8-9 BSF: After leaving Ebenezar at age 19, Harry roamed around for a while (between nine and twenty months) before winding up in Chicago. [NB: This is most likely to be on the short side of Jim's estimate]
~7 BSF: At age 20, Harry arrives in Chicago. Before he goes to work at Ragged Angel, he takes a number of jobs, one of which was as a dance partner with a senior-citizen organization.
5 BSF: At age 20-21, Harry starts working with Nicholas Christian ("Nick") at Ragged Angel. He spends three years there.
I was just checking something for another thread and when I looked here, I'm wondering how often a wizard comes into the magic before the age of 10? Based on the timeline, Carlos Ramirez was between 4 and 8 years old. His birth is given as 16-19 BSF and the trial is between 11-12 BSF. In DB Carlos seems to say that he was an apprentice at the time of Harry's trial. (top of page 375 of the hardback)
I thought that most Wizards tended to initially manifest in the early teens (basically the same time as puberty kicks in), but I may just be imagining that.
Or was there a correction to Carlos' birth somewhere that I missed, maybe? (or is this an unintentional slip in the book?)
Actually, he was talking about Harry's confrontation with the White Council in "Summer Knight." :) If you read the scene with the Senior Council again, there's a mention of a young apprentice in a brown robe hiding a grin behind one hand.
IE, Ramirez. :)
Jim
so as an odd off the wall question - at which point does Thomas' white hummer get trashed? it says at the beginning of Turn Coat that it had been destroyed. I thought this was at the fancy "gerbil habitat" in the suburbs where he goes to see Gard and Hendricks but it isn't.... so I checked further in the book and it seems like its fine all through Small Favour. So when did this happen?
And thanks for the heart attack with Strange Brew. I thought I had missed a Jim Butcher book coming out... it was unthinkable... :P
A year and a half passes between SmF and TC. Harry and Thomas have plenty of time to crash the Hummer!
lol so true! just wasn't sure if I was missing or forgetting something...
and in the same line of insurance nightmares, when did Murphy's car bite it?
I knew it was coming from the end of Summer Knight, but who else was Bummed out when you heard about Michael being crippled... seriously, Michael is a great character, and it seems really messed up to kind of write im off as not being a knight anymore and crippling him... any ideas if anything will change with him? or is he out for good... magic and everything... maybe he wont stay crippled ;) I know, wishful thinking
Something that might be worth adding to the timeline, but its a little different from the rest since its rather speculative.
Jim has said that he intends to do 20 Dresden books followed by an apocalypse trilogy. Well so far the books pace at between 1/2 and 1 1/2 years between books. If they stay on pace that puts the Apocalypse going down at in about 5-14 years or 15-24 ASF with the average being at around 19 ASF. its a pretty wide gap, I know, but its something we can be fairly sure is going to come around.
Not sure its something that fits the timeline, but every time i get somebody new hooked on these books they always ask me if anyone knows how long its going to last ans such, so the whole 20 books + apocalypse trology tends to come up a bunch
Something that might be worth adding to the timeline, but its a little different from the rest since its rather speculative.
Jim has said that he intends to do 20 Dresden books followed by an apocalypse trilogy. Well so far the books pace at between 1/2 and 1 1/2 years between books. If they stay on pace that puts the Apocalypse going down at in about 5-14 years or 15-24 ASF with the average being at around 19 ASF. its a pretty wide gap, I know, but its something we can be fairly sure is going to come around.
Not sure its something that fits the timeline, but every time i get somebody new hooked on these books they always ask me if anyone knows how long its going to last ans such, so the whole 20 books + apocalypse trology tends to come up a bunch
12-13 BSF: Faith Astor is born.
Maybe I'm just having a brain spasm, but who is Faith Astor?The little girl from Restoration of Faith.
Sam
The little girl from Restoration of Faith.
That explains it then. I haven't read any of the short stories.Restoration Faith is on the website! :) That one is easy enough to find/read...stupid library closest to my house making me drive w/gas at $2.15. :'(
Sam
That explains it then. I haven't read any of the short stories.
Sam
how the hell did harry keep bob a secret from the council? he didnt even know about the council yet apparntley had the foresight to hide bobNah, Bob was hidden by Justin, Harry just knew where to look in the rubble, Justin would have know how to hide something from the wardens since he had been one. At least that's my take.
Nah, Bob was hidden by Justin, Harry just knew where to look in the rubble, Justin would have know how to hide something from the wardens since he had been one. At least that's my take.huh...
~44-52 BSF: Michael is born.
~31-37 BSF: Charity is born. Dates are VERY approximate, but I'm working on narrowing it down.
This might be in here already (23 pages + lazy me = no research:
that puts them at 13-15 years apart in the timeline but The Warrior has this line:(click to show/hide)
hints to Changes Spoilers inside
Well, we should probably incorporate a major event in the life ofwe learned about recently into the Timeline.(click to show/hide)
Set somewhere aroundi would say. :-)(click to show/hide)
Well, we should probably incorporate a major event in the life ofwe learned about recently into the Timeline.(click to show/hide)
Set somewhere aroundi would say. :-)(click to show/hide)
I would query whether this is solid enough to go in the timeline, on the grounds that unless someone has info from Jim specifically, we do not know that(click to show/hide)
That's the fun thing with the edit button. But I'm not sure it doesn't happen(click to show/hide)
That's the fun thing with the edit button. But I'm not sure it doesn't happen(click to show/hide)
Last possibility is that she waswhen she left after GP. wich is highly unlikely.(click to show/hide)
I just don't think she could/would have kept that from him when she saw him in DM.
Yeah. No more discussion about the opening to #12 in this thread. I'm confident in my decision.*chanting softly* She knows something we don't know :o
*chanting softly* She knows something we don't know :o
Sorry I know you said the end but I just couldn't help myself :-[
Not to change the tack of the conversation but according to this time line Mister is a least 13 (that's how long Harry has had him) and still VERY spry. Either some of Harry's magic longevity is rubbing off or like Mouse he's no ordinary pet. Given how Mouse defers to him I wonder what's the deal. Although the Za Lord Guard say they have to defend the brownies from him so maybe he's normal and important character pet live a long time in DV.Mister is actually God in disguise, keeping an eye on Harry :)
Ive known cats that lived past 20, though Ill admit that they lost their spryness long before that.
The oldest cat I've met was 25, and I've known several who were in their twenties. I believe the world record is something like 38 years old. Remember, age itself isn't a disease, it just increases the likelihood of various diseases occurring. If a cat dodges the bullets of kidney disease, diabetes, hyperthyroidism, and arthritis, they can be quite active for a lot longer than you'd think.
Or maybe he's just part kneazel... ;-)
Guys, if you want to talk about cat lifespans, just ask, and I'll happily split off a thread for you. Otherwise, try to keep the Timeline thread free of chit-chat. Thanks!
Sorry, what started this is if the series goes on another ten or thirteen years, how old will Mister be? Or will he die? So it does have to do with the timeline sort of..
Is there a scene where Harry and Thomas realize they are half-brothers? Which book is it in?
Yup. "Blood Rites."
Just to clarify a touch. Yes and no. Harry finds out in Blood Rites, but Thomas had already known since before they met in Grave Peril.
Whoa Whoa Whoa... Where do we learn about susan's story aboutAs a teaser Jim told us the first line of the next book, ChangesThat seems like a huge fact I missed!!(click to show/hide)
Raven
~1 BSF: Harry meets Susan (it's described as a "couple years" before the events of "Grave Peril")
I just noticed that when Harry met Sal.. er... Susan *g* is tied down even more by this line in Storm Front.
She had been tracking me ever since interviewing me for a feature story, right after I'd opened up my business.
p.55 Paperback
I just noticed that when Harry met Sal.. er... Susan *g* is tied down even more by this line in Storm Front.
She had been tracking me ever since interviewing me for a feature story, right after I'd opened up my business.
p.55 Paperback
“I thought you were getting another paycheck now.”
I sighed. “Yeah. But the rate of pay was set in 1959, and the Council hasn’t given it a cost-of-living increase since. I think it comes up for review in a few more years.”
“Wow. That’s even slower than City Hall.”
Vignette should probably be labelled as after Death Masks since Bob mentions Harry is a "foe of the footsoldiers of Hell" which likely is talking about the Denarians.
Hum, I wonder if it's worth noting that the White Council is pre-roman at a time when that was Etruscan, and the White Court speaks Etruscan? Like did the White Council form in reaction to the White Court?
This ones a bit more shaky without more JB clarification, but:
The White Council has been around since pre-roman times, which based on google research puts it before 753 bc if we take pre-roman as the Roman Republic/ Before that there was a roman kingdom, but it was a province of the Etruscans before that (founded most likely around 800bc but maybe as early as 1000 bc as a small trading settlement). The problem is that we know its older than that, but not how much older, unless we want to use the beginning of the Iron Age as the cutoff, which would have been about 1200 bc in that part of the world.
Hum, I wonder if it's worth noting that the White Council is pre-roman at a time when that was Etruscan, and the White Court speaks Etruscan? Like did the White Council form in reaction to the White Court?ya, I thought that was interesting too...
This might need it's own little thread....
The Red king is about 4000 years old, making his birth/rebirth at around 3000 bc
Sure you don't mean 2000bc?...*facepalm* What is this math you speak of? If ida wanted schooling ida gone to school. :P
“I thought you were getting another paycheck now.”
I sighed. “Yeah. But the rate of pay was set in 1959, and the Council hasn’t given it a cost-of-living increase since. I think it comes up for review in a few more years.”
“Wow. That’s even slower than City Hall.”
Which, actually, makes me think - Little Chicago seems important enough to merit an entry... We know Harry's been working on it for a good while when we first see it - I don't have the text to hand (mea culpa), but it ought to be fairly clear when he started it.
How old is Molly in 'Turn Coat'?
Sadly, Harry reveals that he was lying his ass off a few pages later when he goes downstairs and it's the big reveal of Little Chicago. He's been using most of his money on getting all the pewter casts made of all the buildings in the city. He even makes some smart-ass comment about them actually not paying too badly for being out-of-touch wizards and all.
4-6 BSF: The White Council holds their last hearing for a known violator of the laws of magic. In 6 ASF, Molly will be the first wizard to be tried in 10-12 years.Priscellie, someone may have commented on this before I did not go through all the pages of comments but...In PG Harry watches beheading of Korean warlock in Chicago, this is before Molly's trial so shes not first in 10 to 12 years
Priscellie, someone may have commented on this before I did not go through all the pages of comments but...In PG Harry watches beheading of Korean warlock in Chicago, this is before Molly's trial so shes not first in 10 to 12 years
Thanks for putting this together
BSF timeline
29 BSF: Karrin Murphy is born. Harry observes that her first husband looked about ten years older than her, guessing that Murph was 18 at the time [SK 86], so I originally put her at 30 BSF. However, assuming Lisa has the same father as Karrin and given Karrin's age at the time of her father's suicide (11), I had to adjust the date.
25 BSF, October 31: Harry is born. Harry's mother, now Margaret Gwendolyn Dresden, dies in childbirth. She is murdered by a ritual entropy curse, courtesy of Lord Raith.
Harry's timeline
AGE 27-28: Storm Front (Correction: Jim says Harry is in his mid-twenties in Storm Front. I figure it's not too much of a challenge to compress the time between his departure from Ebenezar's to the beginning of Storm Front by a year or two.)
Karrin's timeline
AGE 27-29: Storm Front
That warlock was never given a full trial. He didn't have anyone speaking on his behalf, as Harry defended Molly.Yup, confirmed in the conversation with the newbie warden manning the telephones in Ch 43 of PG.
Yup, confirmed in the conversation with the newbie warden manning the telephones in Ch 43 of PG.
I did notice while searching my ebook for the quote (i love technology) that it is the same exact 10-12 years since the most recent version of the Accords were signed, but the timeline shows them staggered a bit?
Is the timing of "Even Hand" publicly known yet ?
Hey, where does the Gatekeeper fit into all of this? I don't see anything on him...
With extra EEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.
(Because he certainly doesn't have extra "i". *rimshot*)
With extra EEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.
(Because he certainly doesn't have extra "i". *rimshot*)
Hold on one second..Charity may not have been purposly usibg magic but Harry stated thatshe might be using subconsiously when she makes/repairs the armour..so I dothink we may see another Carpenter withtalent
June 18 -- A rain of frogs, Harry makes his deal with Mab, the Council meeting is held, and Elaine returns.
Excellent leg work, LogicMouse! I'm pretty sure Jim's mental timeline isn't that precise, though. :D
Thoughts?
It seems like the most troubling assumption is that Merlin was still around and acting as the Merlin when the White Council HQ moved to Edinburough. That doesn't have to be true. Merlin could have left ownership of the area to the White Council, and they could have decided to move there centuries later. The Council seems kind of slow to change, and moving the HQ from wherever it was(Rome, maybe?) to Edinburough would be a pretty big one. It might have taken a couple of centuries for them to decide do relocate.
If they had a huge cool fortress and didn't move into it on a scale of centuries, I'd be interested to know the reasons, because I'd presume there'd have to be reasons of some sort.
If they had a huge cool fortress and didn't move into it on a scale of centuries, I'd be interested to know the reasons, because I'd presume there'd have to be reasons of some sort.
It's not hard for me to imagine the White Council being slow to inhabit a new headquarters. The older members have most of the political clout in the Council, and in general they are more conservative. Why move to some big, snazzy new headquarters just because it's there? Especially when their pre-Edinburough HQ presumably already had lots of protective wards and established routes through the Nevernever, and was the place everyone was used to?True. Though remember this is the same guy who wrote and enforced the Seven Laws of Magic, (re)founded the White Council. That could have left them primed for change, unlike the much more settled version of the council we see now. And he couldn't have done all that without some pretty big clout politically and otherwise, enough to get people moving. And in less the peaceful times, sitting on one of the largest ley line convergences in the world aint bad either. Power is always a good motivator.
Given a couple of centuries for the younger members to gain control of the Council, though, and they would eventually see that a move was for the best.
~1436: Vlad Tepesh, father of Dracula, is born. He is a half-mortal like Kincaid, and he is formidable, dangerous, and cruel. Kincaid, called the "Hound of Hell" or the "Hellhound," serves as his right arm for centuries.Vlad III, known as Vlad Tepes, is better known as Dracula. The father of Dracula is Vlad II, who was known as Vlad Dracul (or as it is spelled in the Dresden Files, Drakul). Thanks to Aluman for posting this originally. Also as Landing put it, "we don't know if that is the actual date of his birth in the dresdenverse. He could have been born a thousand years before but just told that as his birth date to the mortals. " I thought changing it to say "The date mortal history says Dracula was born" would be better.
This might be in here already (23 pages + lazy me = no research:QuoteQuotethat puts them at 13-15 years apart in the timeline but The Warrior has this line:
~44-52 BSF: Michael is born.
~31-37 BSF: Charity is born. Dates are VERY approximate, but I'm working on narrowing it down.
"Charity answered the door when I knocked, She was of an age with Michael...."
That might insinuate that Charity and Michael are closer then 13 years apart in age. It's not much help, but it's something?
4ASF Murphy begins teaching Harry to stick fight.
From Heorot:
"I don’t think Caine knew much about quarterstaff fighting. Murphy had been teaching it to me, however, for almost four years."
1959 (≈41 BSF) Rate of pay for wardens is set.Quote from: Proven Guilty: Chapter 5“I thought you were getting another paycheck now.”
I sighed. “Yeah. But the rate of pay was set in 1959, and the Council hasn’t given it a cost-of-living increase since. I think it comes up for review in a few more years.”
“Wow. That’s even slower than City Hall.”
The Red king is about 4000 years old, making his birth/rebirth at around 2000 bc
The White Council moved their headquarters to Edinburgh in the "just under five hundred years" ago, putting it in the mid 1500's
At least 25 BSF Susan Rodriguez is born. She's the only one old enough to rent a van in Fool Moon.
Jim confirmed at last night's signing that Harry is "about one year younger" than Jim, which would put him at 37. Coincides decently well with our timeline.This was posted on April 10, 2010 so it is most likely referring to his age during Changes.
Quote from: PriscellieJune 18 -- A rain of frogs, Harry makes his deal with Mab, the Council meeting is held, and Elaine returns.I would like to make a small and mostly insignificant correction: this should more accurately be called "a rain of toads."
"I went out to New Mexico this spring."And on the next page:
"Why?"
Helping Luccio train baby Wardens,"
"So we spent about two days turning thirty acres of sand and scrub into glass. Then a couple of the Read Court's ghouls showed up and killed two kids."
QuoteAnyways, things that indicate a specific time for The Warrior:
Main Identifiers
-It is the end of softball season (though it doesn't specify it is a regularly timed softball season).
-It takes place between Small Favor(November, 8ASF) and Last Call (March, 10ASF)
-Harry gives the time between it and the end of Small Favor to be at least year (Side Jobs 217) or months and months depending on the estimate.
Other Possible Identifiers
-Charity is old enough that "her golden hair hid fairly well any strands of silver that might have shown."
-It is warm enough to be playing with a soccer ball outside and moderately temperatured enough for Dresden to not mention the temperature except to mention that during the night it grew cold enough for the water (on the grass that was from the rain) to make his socks uncomfortable.
-Harry is old enough and familiar enough with Harry to climb on him. ;D
-The girls in Alicia's age group are of an age where Harry calls them girls and then corrects himself and calls them young women (he guesses).
-It's construction season and they are just putting up the house's frame.
-It is warm enough to be wearing shorts (Side Jobs 244)QuoteNote there is another relevant quote I just found on the time between The Warrior and Small Favor.
"Months in bed and more months in therapy had left him a shadow of himself, and he had never added all the muscle back on."
So this muddies the issue on whether he experienced months in bed before a year of therapy, the second time the year of therapy includes the months in bed, or even if the time between it is months instead of a year since the year could just be rounding up.
If it is at least a year between Small Favor and the Warrior then it takes place between November of 9ASF and March of 10ASF. However, we know that it has to take place at the end of a softball season (even if it might be an irregularly timed one) and during a time where it is warm enough to wear shorts (nor at extreme enough temperatures for Harry to comment on it). So it is extremely unlikely to be any time between those two dates and thus Harry has got to be rounding on the estimate of a year.
The last major loup-garou rampage happened around Gevaudan, France, back in the sixteenth century.
Hey Dresdenites,
I've been trying to place AAAA Wizardry into the Dresden chronology, and here's what I have so far:
7 ASF, May- White Night. The Paranet is formed soon after.
8 ASF, circa May- earliest time for the flashback from AAAA. Dresden mentions the Paranet existing for a year.
9 ASF, circa May- the earliest Harry's narration to the young Wardens can occur, since it takes Megan most of a year to recover from the events of the flashback.
11 ASF, October- Changes- the story logically takes place before here due to said novel's events.
So our range is somewhere between the short story Backup and Changes. In other words in the range of these dates (and novels),
*November 8 ASF- Small Favor, predating the narration.
*May 9 ASF- earliest date of Harry's narration.
*Summer 10 ASF- Turn Coat
*October 11 ASF- Changes
Can anyone (shy of Jim himself, who is also welcome to respond :) ) narrow this down further?
Alright, let's use other details. I couldn't find any weather mentions, the comments in the sidebar from Harry and Billy mention it in context of being a casefile. That is, the DFRPG, as evidenced through comments about Morgan and such, is written in-universe before Turn Coat. The comments next to the story imply that it was also written in-universe and is thus before Turn Coat.Priscellie on AAAA Wizardry
By that logic, we have a timeframe of May 9 ASF- Summer 10 ASF (Turn Coat).
From Jim, when he handed off the story to Fred and me to beta: "It's set between Small Favor and Turn Coat."
I would question the original date given since we don't know if that is the actual date of his birth in the dresdenverse. he could have been born a thousand years before but just told that as his birth date to the mortals.I agree. I would probably say something like "The date mortal history says Dracula is born" if I was writing the timeline.
"I went out to New Mexico this spring."And on the next page:
"Why?"
Helping Luccio train baby Wardens,"
"So we spent about two days turning thirty acres of sand and scrub into glass. Then a couple of the Read Court's ghouls showed up and killed two kids."
IIRC, Jim has said a few times that Dresden is several months younger than himself, or has said he's almost a year younger.I think you missed the point of my post. Harry could be a year younger than Jim and still not have a birth date anywhere near Jim's. That's because we don't know when the books occur. Harry could be born in 1980 for example and still be 25 in Storm Front (and thus of an age with Jim when he wrote it) because of that lack of knowledge.
JB's birthdate is 26 October 1971. Harry Dresden's birthday is 31 October, so that would most probably put it at 1972. It places Dresden just a few days off from one year younger than Jim himself.
With other info, that Dresden was twenty-five in Storm Front, then IRL that would come out to 1997 if Dresden were twenty-five just about to turn twenty-six, or 1996 if he were twenty-four turning twenty-five, if I counted right.
Storm Front was released in the spring of 2000. Jim had already written the next couple of books by the time SF was sold and was engaged in seeking an agent and a publisher during the late 1990's. The timeline for Dresden's age compared to roughly when Jim was writing those early novels and the corresponding RL dates seem IMO to meld moderately well.
Disagreements? Info I've missed? RL info which I've used is wrong?
(If discussing this is inappropriate for the purpose of this particular Timeline additions thread, I could snip it out into a different thread instead.)
Correction: I was looking up where Harry's birth year was given and realized that it is based off Jim's comment that Harry is about nine months younger than he is. That doesn't necessarily mean Harry's was born nine months after Jim. It could simply mean that Harry is Jim's current age minus nine months during Changes. Since we don't know the exact date of the books that doesn't tell us much since a variable minus a constant is still a variable. For example if a book was set in the Forgotten Realms, both the character and the writer could be the same age (both being 29) even if the character was born in 1374 DR and the writer in 1982 C.E..Well, you can always use pop-culture ;) For example,
Well, you can always use pop-culture ;) For example,They have been used in the past, they just don't generally narrow it down enough. Thank you for that though..(click to show/hide)
I know I'm nitpicking, but 1393 and 1436 are years, not dates. Especially considering the uncertainty of the exact timing of these events, may I suggest changing these entries (or at least their first sentences) to something like:The tilde is what indicates that they are approximate. As for the content of the further note on timing, it is too vague and based on assumptions to be addable to the timeline.
'The (approximate) year in which mortal history says Vlad Drakul was born.'
and
'The (approximate) year in which mortal history says Vlad Tepes, a.k.a Dracula, son of Vlad Drakul, was born.'
A further note on the timing here: we have to assume some number of years (between Drakul's birth and his rise to power (and hence, his employment of Kincaid). The birth of Vlad Tepes(h)/Dracula, however, is a pretty definite time by which Drakul had consolidated power, if Vlad-the-younger went to the Black Court as a way to rebel against his father. (We can also assume that Tepes was fairly young when he did so, if his turning is referred to as a 'teenage rebellion thing'--though I don't think we can necessarily interpret 'teenage' literally.)
The timing of the events, perhaps-- but I think it's fairly safe to say that Baby!Drakul did not begin his existence with a fully formed power base, but acquired it in the fifty or so years between his birth and the birth of his son.But the problem is that we have absolute no clue when either of those things happened beyond just guessing. It is reasonable to say that Drukul wasn't born with a fully formed power base but considering he is Vlad II (and Dracula is Vlad III), it is also reasonable to say the opposite. That is an example of why speculation does not go in a definitive timeline.
Likewise, Baby!Tepes was not born a Blampire--Blampires are made, not born-- he decided to be turned, and did so, per Eb, in some sort of backlash to his father some years (on the order of one to a few decades, even) after his birth. Given the approximate nature of the years you posted, I don't think the accuracy of the timeline would be damaged by notes on the timing of Drakul's rise to power and the turning of his son to the Black Court. The point is, neither event is immediate to their respective births.
How do we know that "the Warrior" pre-dates "Last Call" chronologically?
Does it say so in SJ? I don't have my copy with me.
Does it say so in SJ? I don't have my copy with me.
Jim outright saying "this is the order" doesn't qualify as evidence? :DI think the question is the order of the short stories between SF and TC- unless he gave the order of the shorts too?
The Warrior can take place a full year after Small Favor. Heck, I don't think there's any reason why it couldn't take place in January or February of 10 ASF.They mention a softball season ending- this would imply maybe a full summer season (unlikely given Michael's injuries), or more likely a seasonal high school sport Michael coaches (allowing it to be spring 10 ASF, around or after Last Cal, before TC).
I think the question is the order of the short stories between SF and TC- unless he gave the order of the shorts too?
I think the question is the order of the short stories between SF and TC- unless he gave the order of the shorts too?As stated it must be before Last Call, as a result it can't be in 10ASF since it would be too cold (they are playing softball and wearing shorts). Thus it is either close to the end of spring or the end of summer in 9ASF (they are close to the championship). While a regular softball season ends in May or June, they could be in a summer league.
They mention a softball season ending- this would imply maybe a full summer season (unlikely given Michael's injuries), or more likely a seasonal high school sport Michael coaches (allowing it to be spring 10 ASF, around or after Last Cal, before TC).
From Jim, when he handed off the story to Fred and me to beta: "It's set between Small Favor and Turn Coat."Is this for AAAA Wizardry or The Warrior?
I think I'm the only one that feels that Vignette takes place before Storm Front but after Restoration of Faith? For Bob to have waited 5 or 6 years to say anything about his ad is kind of astounding. I like to think that in Vignette, Harry is looking at his ad in the phonebook for the first time.Butcher stated in Side Jobs that it "Takes place between Death Masks and Blood Rites."
I don't think Harry's ad was new at the time of Vignette. I always thought it had been in the phone book a few years, and Harry and Bob were considering revising it. Why would Harry have let the ad go to press if he wasn't confident about how he was representing himself?
Butcher stated in Side Jobs that it "Takes place between Death Masks and Blood Rites."
Yeah, I know that. But it felt as if it was earlier for a while. The only thing that keeps it from being earlier is Jim's timeline and Bob mentioning things from the first five books.
...well, then. :DI don't mean to bug you but are you going to be starting a new timeline since the old one is locked?
I don't mean to bug you but are you going to be starting a new timeline since the old one is locked?
I'll be integrating these additions into the current timeline when I get a free moment. It only appears "locked" because it's in the FAQ section. I'm still able to access it! I'm thinking it might be best to move it back here to DF Spoilers and merging this thread into it.That would be excellent. :)
Moved and merged! You should all be able to respond to the Timeline thread now.
Good call
May I recommend a sticky cleanup between now and the GS release?
The "old" WoJ compilation is quite chuckable since it has been superseded. The orignal interview list is now redundant, but IMO still diserves honor... Maybe the Display Case?
Is there any way the Crowd Project and WoJ threads could be merged without losing clarity/ease of access, Serack?
4ASF Murphy begins teaching Harry to stick fight.
From Heorot:
"I don’t think Caine knew much about quarterstaff fighting. Murphy had been teaching it to me, however, for almost four years."
1959 (≈41 BSF) Rate of pay for wardens is set.Quote from: Proven Guilty: Chapter 5“I thought you were getting another paycheck now.”
I sighed. “Yeah. But the rate of pay was set in 1959, and the Council hasn’t given it a cost-of-living increase since. I think it comes up for review in a few more years.”
“Wow. That’s even slower than City Hall.”
The Red king is about 4000 years old, making his birth/rebirth at around 2000 bc
The White Council moved their headquarters to Edinburgh in the "just under five hundred years" ago, putting it in the mid 1500's
At least 25 BSF Susan Rodriguez is born. She's the only one old enough to rent a van in Fool Moon.
Jim confirmed at last night's signing that Harry is "about one year younger" than Jim, which would put him at 37. Coincides decently well with our timeline.This was posted on April 10, 2010 so it is most likely referring to his age during Changes.
Quote from: PriscellieJune 18 -- A rain of frogs, Harry makes his deal with Mab, the Council meeting is held, and Elaine returns.I would like to make a small and mostly insignificant correction: this should more accurately be called "a rain of toads."
"I went out to New Mexico this spring."And on the next page:
"Why?"
Helping Luccio train baby Wardens,"
"So we spent about two days turning thirty acres of sand and scrub into glass. Then a couple of the Read Court's ghouls showed up and killed two kids."
QuoteAnyways, things that indicate a specific time for The Warrior:
Main Identifiers
-It is the end of softball season (though it doesn't specify it is a regularly timed softball season).
-It takes place between Small Favor(November, 8ASF) and Last Call (March, 10ASF)
-Harry gives the time between it and the end of Small Favor to be at least year (Side Jobs 217) or months and months depending on the estimate.
Other Possible Identifiers
-Charity is old enough that "her golden hair hid fairly well any strands of silver that might have shown."
-It is warm enough to be playing with a soccer ball outside and moderately temperatured enough for Dresden to not mention the temperature except to mention that during the night it grew cold enough for the water (on the grass that was from the rain) to make his socks uncomfortable.
-Harry is old enough and familiar enough with Harry to climb on him. ;D
-The girls in Alicia's age group are of an age where Harry calls them girls and then corrects himself and calls them young women (he guesses).
-It's construction season and they are just putting up the house's frame.
-It is warm enough to be wearing shorts (Side Jobs 244)QuoteNote there is another relevant quote I just found on the time between The Warrior and Small Favor.
"Months in bed and more months in therapy had left him a shadow of himself, and he had never added all the muscle back on."
So this muddies the issue on whether he experienced months in bed before a year of therapy, the second time the year of therapy includes the months in bed, or even if the time between it is months instead of a year since the year could just be rounding up.
If it is at least a year between Small Favor and the Warrior then it takes place between November of 9ASF and March of 10ASF. However, we know that it has to take place at the end of a softball season (even if it might be an irregularly timed one) and during a time where it is warm enough to wear shorts (nor at extreme enough temperatures for Harry to comment on it). So it is extremely unlikely to be any time between those two dates and thus Harry has got to be rounding on the estimate of a year.
The last major loup-garou rampage happened around Gevaudan, France, back in the sixteenth century.
Hey Dresdenites,Priscellie on AAAA Wizardry
I've been trying to place AAAA Wizardry into the Dresden chronology, and here's what I have so far:
7 ASF, May- White Night. The Paranet is formed soon after.
8 ASF, circa May- earliest time for the flashback from AAAA. Dresden mentions the Paranet existing for a year.
9 ASF, circa May- the earliest Harry's narration to the young Wardens can occur, since it takes Megan most of a year to recover from the events of the flashback.
11 ASF, October- Changes- the story logically takes place before here due to said novel's events.
So our range is somewhere between the short story Backup and Changes. In other words in the range of these dates (and novels),
*November 8 ASF- Small Favor, predating the narration.
*May 9 ASF- earliest date of Harry's narration.
*Summer 10 ASF- Turn Coat
*October 11 ASF- Changes
Can anyone (shy of Jim himself, who is also welcome to respond :) ) narrow this down further?
From Jim, when he handed off the story to Fred and me to beta: "It's set between Small Favor and Turn Coat."
See PM
Oh my goodnessThat site has an extremely poor rating (http://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/musterpuffer.de) (Trustworthiness, Privacy, and Vendor Relieability-wise) according to users of WOT and is listed on anti-spam company joewein.de's spam blacklist. Click on it at your own risk.
I just noticed this: http://www.musterpuffer.de/JB/df/dftime.html
in Tsunami's signature.
Other than it's usage of the RL timeline rather than the BSF time reference, it's frigin amazing.
Did you make it yourself Tsunami? How did you get ahold of the code from MIT?
That site has an extremely poor rating (http://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/musterpuffer.de) (Trustworthiness, Privacy, and Vendor Relieability-wise) according to users of WOT and is listed on anti-spam company joewein.de's spam blacklist. Click on it at your own risk.
Edit: Someone should probably inform Tsunami that they might want to move their timeline to a different site.
I just found something interesting. If I was to guess I would say that this is referring to the below event, just with the wrong century.Quote from: Fool Moon pg63The last major loup-garou rampage happened around Gevaudan, France, back in the sixteenth century.
The first generally-recognized silver bullet story comes from France. In the 1760's in the town of Gevaudan, a series of animal attacks left at least sixty people dead. Some estimates put the death toll over 100, but circumstances attending many of the deaths are ambiguous. There were numerous eye-witness reports of a large, highly aggressive animal who carried out these attacks, often seeking out human prey in preference to cattle or even sheep nearby. The creature became known as the "Beast of Gevuadan".
The deaths were real, and well documented, but the creature responsible remains an enigma. Superstition and folk stories have become so thoroughly entwined that it is difficult to say what kind of beast it was, or even what it may have looked like. The local peasants were convinced that it was a werewolf (a loup-garou). Several people claimed to have shot or stabbed the monster, but without effect. In one account, two hunters shot it with rifles from close range, soring multiple hits. The beast limped away, apparently hurt, only to reappear and kill a few days later.
Professional hunters and trappers were dispatched with instructions to kill the beast. None were able to slay it, though several were apparently attacked and killed. Whole villages were abandoned when the beast was sighted nearby. Eventually, large groups of hunters and trackers, dogs and warriors were sent to search for the beast. Finally, one such group of men was attacked. Jean Chastel, a member of the group, had loaded a pistol with a silver bullet, with which he shot and killed the monster.
I just found something interesting. If I was to guess I would say that this is referring to the below event, just with the wrong century.
There's a cool French pseudo-documentary about the Beast of Gevaudan; Brotherhood of the Wolf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brotherhood_of_the_Wolf). I saw it on TV a few years ago. The Wikipedia article about it also indicates 1700's rather than 1600's.The sixteenth century is the 1500s so the date is even further off, if it is intended to reference that event.
LML
The sixteenth century is the 1500s so the date is even further off, if it is intended to reference that event.Yep, you're right. I was only looking at your earlier comment, rather than the previous one which actually said "sixteenth century" so I mis-remembered. Thanks.
The sixteenth century is the 1500s so the date is even further off, if it is intended to reference that event.
The next person who uses "reference" as a verb will be actioned with a fonging by the low-hanging fruit. ;D
(... just kidding, in case I'm being too deadpan. :) )
What about dereferencing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dereference_operator)?
The next person who uses "reference" as a verb will be actioned with a fonging by the low-hanging fruit. ;D
(... just kidding, in case I'm being too deadpan. :) )
While the use of "action" and "gift" as verbs makes me twitch, I've never had a problem with "reference."
I'd looked on a little tree-spirit being with my Sight when I'd been about fourteen, the first time it had happened to me, and I still had a perfect picture of it in my head, as though I was still looking at it, a little cartoonish being that was part lawn gnome and part squirrel.
You got to have some serious magical chops before a soulgaze is an issue--and yes, it's one of the markers that the Council uses to see if you make the cut, though it's far from the only one. There are folks running around who can do it who aren't on the Council, but not many of them.
Charity was small potatoes in the magic department, for a number of reasons. It was never an issue with her.
Jim
Spoilers from the short story Curses- the preview of the first fifth is on Amazon....(setting it between ?? and Changes)(click to show/hide)
Isn't the use of 'gift' as a verb just...archaic?
(circa 1550's, according to Merriam-Webster.....)
Spoilers from the short story Curses- the preview of the first fifth is on Amazon....(click to show/hide)
Summer Knight, CH 23, while talking to Lea at the Stone TableQuoteI'd looked on a little tree-spirit being with my Sight when I'd been about fourteen, the first time it had happened to me, and I still had a perfect picture of it in my head, as though I was still looking at it, a little cartoonish being that was part lawn gnome and part squirrel.
FWIW, Jim wrote the story in 2008. :D
Yeah, I'm a proponnet of Storm Front being set in 2000- makes chronology a ton easier.
Also, one thing I picked up re-reading Death Masks- it's an election year. (DM 116). Does that help any?
EDIT: City elections are every four years- 2003 being the most likely (too late in the series to be 1999 or early for 2007)- making 2000 Storm Front.
I HAVE SOLVED THE TIMELINE CONUNDRUM. Nobel Prize, please.
Already mentioned in my sig :D
You get a STACK of Nobel Prizes MADE OF CHOCOLATE.
Of course, Jim's chronological planning skills leave a lot to be desired (see: The Great Copperfield Retcon and Molly and Isana's TARDISes), so I'm sure there is information in the books that contradicts this. However, it's awesome to see some solid evidence for putting Storm Front in 2000, other than sheer numerological convenience! Thank you!
According to Priscillie's announcement (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,21658.msg942660.html#msg942660) of the book it's in, Naked City, "Curses" occurs between Small Favor and Turn Coat. So there's that.
LML
Going off of SF=2000, this would likely be (in-universe) as the 2009 season (9 ASF), where the Cubs still almost took the division title. (I know Jim wrote it in '08, but chronologically it fits anywhere in '07-'09 (all decent seasons for the Cubs).
EDIT: Sorry for double post.
Spoilers from the short story Curses- the preview of the first fifth is on Amazon....If one were to briefly describe Mouse to a person who had never seen or heard about him before, would you explain him as comparable to a small timid rodent or to a large, shaggy, sometimes dangerously bellicose critter?(click to show/hide)
Harry began to build Little Chicago not long after he began to receive Warden pay. Luccio made him a warden in Dead Beat.(click to show/hide)
Going off of SF=2000, this would likely be (in-universe) as the 2009 season (9 ASF), where the Cubs still almost took the division title. (I know Jim wrote it in '08, but chronologically it fits anywhere in '07-'09 (all decent seasons for the Cubs).
Zambrano has pitched for the Cubs since 2001. More importantly, from Curses, Harry thinks Tampa might have a chance. This puts 2008, 2009 as pretty likely, as Tampa didn't really start looking good until then. hat he thought them a threat to the Yankees for a postseason title...well. He'd had to have seen them pull off a good run at least once (as in 2008) to take them seriously.
Also, Harry called them Tampa Bay-- but he called everything else by team name (Cubs, Yankees, Phillies)-- this is something I know I started doing after their name-switch in 2008. It just...sounds wrong....to call them the Rays.
The next thing to do is to try to pin down which game Harry saw at the end of the story. Lessee. Zambrano started at Wrigley. In 2009. and it was late enough in the season (and the Cubs were doing well enough) that the management was looking into removing the curse (and 'Who do you like for the postseason' was not a silly question to ask....) So. Probably after the All Star Game. We have 7/27, 8/25, 8/30 and 9/15. I suspect that his start on 9/30 was too late in the season for the removal of the curse to really make a difference, as at that point, they were 8 games back and not going to the postseason. It was looking really, really unlikely on 9/15, too (5.5 games back in the wild card, 8.5 back in the division). Though I suppose the game Harry attended doesn't have to have been immediately following the case.
Yeah, I'm a proponnet of Storm Front being set in 2000- makes chronology a ton easier.Actually, the interesting thing about your attempt versus the other attempts to pin down the timeline definitively through minor details is that Jim more than likely knew when the Chicago Mayoral elections take place since Death Masks took place in late February and the mayoral election always occurs in Chicago on the last Tuesday in February. That could, of course, be a coincidence but it would seem to be an awfully convenient one if it is.
Also, one thing I picked up re-reading Death Masks- it's an election year. (DM 116). Does that help any?
EDIT: City elections are every four years- 2003 being the most likely (too late in the series to be 1999 or early for 2007)- making 2000 Storm Front.
I HAVE SOLVED THE TIMELINE CONUNDRUM. Nobel Prize, please.
Besides, being able to help pin SF at the year 2000? Totally made my week.We shall form the Society of 2000.Or would have, if there hadn't been a new chapter.
Actually, the interesting thing about your attempt versus the other attempts to pin down the timeline definitively through minor details is that Jim more than likely knew when the Chicago Mayoral elections take place since Death Masks took place in late February and the mayoral election always occurs in Chicago on the last Tuesday in February. That could, of course, be a coincidence but it would seem to be an awfully convenient one if it is.Yea that was my logic too- it's not a random day of the week Jim might've misplaced, or a baseball game that could've been any of 3 seasons (although thanks to this and cass I'm pretty sure it's '09)- it's still a minor detail, but one that has more weight and merit to it.
Yeah, I'm a proponent of Storm Front being set in 2000- makes chronology a ton easier.In terms of being easier to calculate chronologies, yes, setting Storm Front as if it were 2000 would be way more convenient. In terms of when they were actually written, and unless Jim was for some reason intentionally setting the early books future-dated, IIRC Jim has said in Q&A sessions that he had written SF while still at the University of Oklahoma, and also that Fool Moon and Grave Peril were ready before Storm Front eventually sold.
Also, one thing I picked up re-reading Death Masks- it's an election year. (DM 116). Does that help any?
EDIT: City elections are every four years- 2003 being the most likely (too late in the series to be 1999 or early for 2007)- making 2000 Storm Front.
I HAVE SOLVED THE TIMELINE CONUNDRUM. Nobel Prize, please.
In terms of being easier to calculate chronologies, yes, setting Storm Front as if it were 2000 would be way more convenient. In terms of when they were actually written, and unless Jim was for some reason intentionally setting the early books future-dated, IIRC Jim has said in Q&A sessions that he had written SF while still at the University of Oklahoma, and also that Fool Moon and Grave Peril were ready before Storm Front eventually sold.Harry being a year younger than Jim has nothing to do with Harry being born a year after Jim. If Jim wrote the first book when he was 26 and Harry was 25 that would make Harry a year younger than Jim when it was written and since the books are usually set about a year apart and almost always released a year apart that gap in age would always remain relatively the same. The books could have been set in 1225 DR (the Forgotten Realms calender) or in 15000 B.C.E. and Harry's age difference from Jim would remain the same.
Since SF was published April 2000, it would seem that those were written in the late 90's. For Harry to be about a year younger than Jim, Harry would have been 25 in 1997.
The only other real-world date that comes to mind is that Stroger replaced the old Cook County Hospital in December 2002. Of course, hospital construction must have been in progress for quite some length of time before that, so Jim could have become aware of the upcoming hospital move some years ahead of the actual move if he was tracking major Chicago planning.
The end of the twentieth century and the dawn of the new millennium had seen something of a renaissance in public awareness of the paranormal.
Now if only this kind of sluthing could determine who was on Demonreach with Peabody.Did you see my post in the new WOJ/transcription thread?
Did you see my post in the new WOJ/transcription thread?
In terms of being easier to calculate chronologies, yes, setting Storm Front as if it were 2000 would be way more convenient. In terms of when they were actually written, and unless Jim was for some reason intentionally setting the early books future-dated,
I think a number of people do that just to have lead time in case of, oh, your series being set in New Orleans and Hurricane Katrina happening, or something of equivalent scale that would turn your series into explicit alternate history if you did not have lead time.
*sigh*
I guess we're just not good enough, Serack. ;D
I'll do the TC re-read tonight, happy?
HARRY'S TIMELINE:
AGE 0 (1972): Harry's mother, now Margaret Gwendolyn Dresden, dies in childbirth. She is murdered by a ritual entropy curse, courtesy of Lord Raith. Jim says Harry is about a year younger than him, so he would have been born in 1972.
If 1972 is correct then SF is set in 1998 or on the other hand if SF is set in 2000 then Harry was born in 1974.
The 1974 date fits my pet theory that Harry was born under a full moon
...I need to tell Jim that, because that's FREAKING AWESOME. I don't think he intended it at all, and it's a ridiculously cool coincidence.
Has anyone brought up the fact that Ortega can't be from the 13th/14th century because in changes Lea says that Arriana turned Ortega because he was a conquistador which would put him at the 16th century because the conquistadors didn't go to the Americas till then so Arriana would have no reason to hate conquistadors until then.
Has anyone brought up the fact that Ortega can't be from the 13th/14th century because in changes Lea says that Arriana turned Ortega because he was a conquistador which would put him at the 16th century because the conquistadors didn't go to the Americas till then so Arriana would have no reason to hate conquistadors until then.
There's no reason Ortega wasn't already 200-300 years old at the time of the conquistadors. Or were you trying to say something else?
Good points, folks. That oughta teach me not to post when I should be in bed. :)
Harry being a year younger than Jim has nothing to do with Harry being born a year after Jim. If Jim wrote the first book when he was 26 and Harry was 25 that would make Harry a year younger than Jim when it was written and since the books are usually set about a year apart and almost always released a year apart that gap in age would always remain relatively the same. The books could have been set in 1225 DR (the Forgotten Realms calender) or in 15000 B.C.E. and Harry's age difference from Jim would remain the same.
@Priscellie: Note that this mistake of logic is still reflected in Harry's personal timeline.
The next person who uses "reference" as a verb will be actioned with a fonging by the low-hanging fruit. ;D"Uh, betray us, and I will fong you, until your insides are out, your outsides are in, your entrails will become your extrails I will w-rip... all the p... ung.... Pain, lots of pain." -A Knight's Tale (I love that movie)
(... just kidding, in case I'm being too deadpan. :) )
@Priscellie: Could you remove the bit about Harry being born in 1972 from his personal timeline?
So you don't have to search for it, here is my point about it.
Removed!Thanks.
Some of the earliest dates are out of order.
I've been reading over the timeline closely and the individual timelines need to be updated from the information in the main timeline. For example, Harry and Murphy's ages have been established for Storm Front but their timelines don't reflect that.
The identifier in Side Jobs says Aftermath takes place an hour or two after the end of Changes, instead of the 45 minutes which Jim stated it was. Since the hour or two is the most recent estimate (and also the published estimate) and 45 minutes was stated iirc while he was still writing, the hour or two is more likely to be the correct one.
Quote from: Chuck Chuck RazoolAt least 25 BSF Susan Rodriguez is born. She's the only one old enough to rent a van in Fool Moon.
I'm not sure if this one is important enough except in a timeline of Luccio's life but during the Camp Kaboom segment Luccio says "it had been a hundred and forty years since I'd put up with either sexual desire or a monthly cycle."Quote from: Fool Moon pg63The last major loup-garou rampage happened around Gevaudan, France, back in the sixteenth century.
You could add the flashback from AAAA Wizardry to the timeline (see below).Hey Dresdenites,
I've been trying to place AAAA Wizardry into the Dresden chronology, and here's what I have so far:
7 ASF, May- White Night. The Paranet is formed soon after.
8 ASF, circa May- earliest time for the flashback from AAAA. Dresden mentions the Paranet existing for a year.
9 ASF, circa May- the earliest Harry's narration to the young Wardens can occur, since it takes Megan most of a year to recover from the events of the flashback.
11 ASF, October- Changes- the story logically takes place before here due to said novel's events.
So you don't have to search for it, here is my point about it.
I'm not getting why you think that because Jim writes Harry as a year younger than him for some of the series he will necessarily continue to do so.I wasn't saying that nor do I think that. My only point is that Jim stating that Harry is 9 months younger than him does not necessarily mean that Harry was born nine months after Jim. When I said "always" I only meant to refer to the currently released books and the likely hood of the trend continuing. I was typing quickly and should have chosen better phrasing.
Not to change the tack of the conversation but according to this time line Mister is a least 13 (that's how long Harry has had him) and still VERY spry. Either some of Harry's magic longevity is rubbing off or like Mouse he's no ordinary pet. Given how Mouse defers to him I wonder what's the deal. Although the Za Lord Guard say they have to defend the brownies from him so maybe he's normal and important character pet live a long time in DV.
At least 25 BSF Susan Rodriguez is born. She's the only one old enough to rent a van in Fool Moon.
I've waded through 19 pages wondering if anyone mentioned Susan's birth. Kind of important and should at least have a range listed.
"But Beckitt died almost seven years ago. He was killed in prison."
"67 MILLION YEARS BSF: Sue roams the Earth!"
It would be beyond awesome if Harry ended up quite far back in time and managed to save a little t-rex egg from being eaten by a mean and nasty dinosaur.
Thus DB would be one Sue repaying his saviour after a long long wait.
Actually, in Dead Beat Harry says that Sue is only 65 million years old. That would technically put her at: 64,999,995 years BSF.
:P
The Field Museum's website estimated 67, if I recall correctly. :D
Bah, what's 2 million or so years (give or take) among reanimated friends?
I think being named an Esquire of the Summer Court was separate from being granted one favor. As I understand it, it's a title that was bestowed on him, and (unless Titania revokes it I guess) it's life long.That would be my take on it also. The favor (and the leaf pin which signified it) was a one time use kind of thing. (The sidhe would doubtless be very uncomfortable with any mortal to ever have a permanent right to claim one favor after another forever.)
I dunno, Serack, I don't think he just keeps the title like a former president. I think he still actually is an Esquire of the Summer Court.
And, of course, Harry being an Esquire of Summer as well as the Winter Knight must cause no end of headaches for each court's royal office of protocol. :D
Also, May 9, 11, and 13 were the three feast days for the Roman festival of Lemuria. This was when the Romans were supposed to perform rites that would exorcise the lemures from their homes.
Ok this observation by Tempus Corvus absolutely rocks, and I wanted to make sure it got into this topic.
Prisc, I don't remember getting an exact date from the book, what's your source for GS starting on May 9th?
I'm not Priscellie, but I can answer. Stu tells Harry straight out in Chapter 4 that the date is May 9th. He also says that it's been more than six months since Harry died.
Hmm... this may've already been asked elsewhere, but I wanted to see if anyone could answer this for me.
So I was bad, and picked up a copy of Naked City at my local bookstore. Jim says his short in it, "Curses", takes place between Small Favor and Turn Coat. However, during the events of "Curses", Harry is introduced as(among other things. However, wouldn't that have ended when Harry(click to show/hide)near the end of the book? Or is he still considered the former even after the latter happened? o_O(click to show/hide)
Is this dating from an interview or something else? I checked it out from my library last week, and was wracking my brain trying to figure out the timing of the story, with no internal clues that I could spot.
Fixed the stuff about Vlad Drakul and tweaked Charity's birth. Also added the French and Indian War. If you haven't already, can someone put together a list of WoJ stuff Jim has said happened during that time? It's kind of a magnet date for awesome, apparently!
[/snip]
If I ever do any major work (IE, novels) from alternate characters, I probably could not set them in the time period of the Dresden Files. I have several neat ideas, and the one that appeals to me the most is writing the French and Indian war years from the viewpoint of a young Ebenezar McCoy and his associates. The first duel between Eb and Listens-to-Wind is pretty epic in my head. :)
[/snip]
Hmm... this may've already been asked elsewhere, but I wanted to see if anyone could answer this for me.
So I was bad, and picked up a copy of Naked City at my local bookstore. Jim says his short in it, "Curses", takes place between Small Favor and Turn Coat. However, during the events of "Curses", Harry is introduced as(among other things. However, wouldn't that have ended when Harry(click to show/hide)near the end of the book? Or is he still considered the former even after the latter happened? o_O(click to show/hide)
Wow, dunno how this slipped by me Priscellie. Here goes:
I think Jim touched on the French and Indian war again at KC the other day. I'll be extracting stuff from it later when it gets fully posted on youtube or when I post the audio that laura118b gave me.
I recorded the audio from Mr. Butcher's Beavercreek signing, and I am uploading it presently. There weren't too many earth-shattering details revealed (as per usual), but there were some good quotes and interesting stories.
Highlights (may be paraphrased, some I am writing down from memory):
[/snip]
Q: "Are we ever going to meet Margaret LeFey's Mother?"
A: "She was a mortal, and died somewhere around 1810. We'd only meet her if we go back to the French and Indian War [referencing his earlier statement that he has considered writing books from back during the French and Indian War"
[/snip]
Got some info on the timing of Margret's Mom's death, and another reference to the F&I war.
So, if we assume 1810 as the last year Maggie LeFay could have been born, and sometime around 1970 or so as the year she died, then Maggie LeFay was, at minimum, 160 years old at the time of her death. She could've been as much as 80 or 90 years older than that, but she couldn't have been any younger.
He (Harry) was not truly your apprentice. You kept watch over him for a mere two years.This would support Harry living with McCoy for 2 rather than 3 years, but it's possible Mai was misinformed (a little unlikely given the amount of attention Harry got), or forgot it was 3. Thoughts?
Possibly I'm just interpreting incorrectly, but doesn't Storm Front take place in (lateish) March, not April?A full year before I looked online for Jim Butcher stuff and found this forum I had first started reading the Dresden Files. I have made my own simple document, strictly for my own personal use, for two or three authors where I plan to read several related books of theirs and wanted to keep track of when each novel takes place, significant events occur, major characters are introduced to the storyline, that kind of stuff. From that info, not from the official timeline here on the forum, I had put down when Storm Front appeared to begin per its info in-text. Like you, I had Storm Front as beginning in March.
Re: Anyway, it had been a slow month. A slow pair of months, actually. My rent from February didn’t get paid until the tenth of March, and it was looking like it might be even longer until I got caught up for this month. mid Chapter One [sorry, epubs only right now], and It was cool and windy, like it usually is in March, and she wore a long coat that covered her pantsuit. from the beginning of Chapter Two.
Possibly I'm just interpreting incorrectly, but doesn't Storm Front take place in (lateish) March, not April?
Re: Anyway, it had been a slow month. A slow pair of months, actually. My rent from February didn’t get paid until the tenth of March, and it was looking like it might be even longer until I got caught up for this month. mid Chapter One [sorry, epubs only right now], and It was cool and windy, like it usually is in March, and she wore a long coat that covered her pantsuit. from the beginning of Chapter Two.
A full year before I looked online for Jim Butcher stuff and found this forum I had first started reading the Dresden Files. I have made my own simple document, strictly for my own personal use, for two or three authors where I plan to read several related books of theirs and wanted to keep track of when each novel takes place, significant events occur, major characters are introduced to the storyline, that kind of stuff. From that info, not from the official timeline here on the forum, I had put down when Storm Front appeared to begin per its info in-text. Like you, I had Storm Front as beginning in March.
However, I do keep to the forefront of my mind that this forum timeline is one to which Jim has always had access. If he's left it as saying April without making any comment to the contrary, I kinda figure author trumps plain ol' me for knowing the straight dope. (Not to mention Timeline Chick and Industrious Little Gnome too, She doesn't do sloppy or casual work. She's rather amazingly correct as to details.)
Heh, yup. Just after WN was released, I pointed out that Molly had somehow celebrated two birthdays in the ten-month span between "Proven Guilty" and "White Night" and coyly floated that if Jim needed a Timeline beta... :DAnd thus a proto-goddess grew into a glorious Goddess in her own right, complete with cult devotees.
*Turn Coat:This would support Harry living with McCoy for 2 rather than 3 years, but it's possible Mai was misinformed (a little unlikely given the amount of attention Harry got), or forgot it was 3. Thoughts?Everything between two and three will be rounded up or down depending on the personal agenda of the one talking.
Hey, Priscellie, is there any chance that this timeline might get the glossy-treatment and a printed copy one of these days? I'd love to be able to purchase a wall-scroll of the timeline... maybe through the JB store?
*Turn Coat:This would support Harry living with McCoy for 2 rather than 3 years, but it's possible Mai was misinformed (a little unlikely given the amount of attention Harry got), or forgot it was 3. Thoughts?Mai is known as "Ancient". Odds are, a few years either way could slip by her attention. They probably start to slide together pretty well once you're more than a few hundred years old.
That might be fun! Not sure if there would be enough interest to justify the time and expense, though.Conceivably another Kiva support project if the pricing could be kept in an accessible range? Though 'Cellie might have difficulty carving enough time away from other needs this year.
Conceivably another Kiva support project if the pricing could be kept in an accessible range? Though 'Cellie might have difficulty carving enough time away from other needs this year.
The other part of it is that as soon as the next book comes out it will become outdated.
I've had a little spare time, and i stumbled upon a really nice Timeline Tool, so i gave it a go.
It's still in its early stages, so there may be mistakes.
The Blue Lines over the individual events usually show the spread for those events that can not be exactly placed.
In some few cases they show the actual duration of the event.
This Timeline is based on the assumption that 0 ASF ist the year 2000.
have fun.
http://www.musterpuffer.de/JB/df/dftime.html
Also, I would like some sort of zoom-to-event function.
Looking at the API and seeing that it's open source it seems like its feasible to add whatever you want, worst case scenario you just add standard links below the rendered timeline that link to specific areas.
I'm tempted to get into it but am too busy right now with full time work and school plus 4 kids.
A lot of them, like me, were apprentices when you were first tried after Justin DuMorne's death. A lot of them are still apprentices.So if Harry was tried at the age of 16, Ramirez would be 6yrs old, right? Isn't that a little early to be apprenticed, or does the apprenticeship typically start before the wizards actually manifest magic?
When did Ramirez become an apprentice? According to him in Dead Beat, So if Harry was tried at the age of 16, Ramirez would be 6yrs old, right? Isn't that a little early to be apprenticed, or does the apprenticeship typically start before the wizards actually manifest magic?
When did Ramirez become an apprentice? According to him in Dead Beat,QuoteA lot of them, like me, were apprentices when you were first tried after Justin DuMorne's death. A lot of them are still apprentices.
So if Harry was tried at the age of 16, Ramirez would be 6yrs old, right? Isn't that a little early to be apprenticed, or does the apprenticeship typically start before the wizards actually manifest magic?
To expand on an earlier timeline attempt
October 22 2011: Maggie abducted
October 23: Changes begins
October 24: Susan and Harry meet-to when Harry contacts Ivy and gets to meet Marcone
OCtober 25: Up to Harry collapsing unconcious
OCtober 26:Up to first arrival at Chichen Itza
October 27 2011:Final battle at Chichen Itza, Harry dies. Maggie rescued. Arianna and father and Court die. I say this based on the 6 months, and if it was a week earlier they may as well have said 7 months
I just made this account to ask whether it's a mistake in just my books or in all the books, because I remember when I read it recently, in book 4 (Summer Night) McCoy called the Merlin Alfred, but in every book after that it says his name is Arthur. And then I noticed in this timeline he was also referred to as Alfred, so my question is what's his name, and whether anyone else noticed this or if it's just my version of the books? (Bear in mind that they're in e-book format)
7 ASF, June: The Alphas will graduate.
Minor quibble:U Chicago's on the quarter system, and as far as I can tell, most quarter system schools have their graduations in June.
I think it's mostly just middle and high schools that graduate in June. Most every college graduation I've seen has been held in May at the latest. Or does the University of Chicago usually have it later?
"It was when Billy was about four that Victor found the magic. I don't know where. But he started getting obsessed with it. He brought home books and books. Strange things. He put a lock on the door to the attic, and after dinner he'd vanish up there. Some nights, he wouldn't come to bed. Some nights, I thought I could hear things, up there. Voices. Or things that weren't voices." She shuddered.
A girl, on the gawky end of preadolescence, with hair the color of her mother's, leaned out into the hallway. "Mom?" she said in a quavering voice. "Mom, are you okay? Do you want me to call the police?" A boy, perhaps a year or two younger than his sister, poked his head out, too.
You know, given what we know now (or at least has been insinuated by Butcher), should an "apparently" be added to the note of Collin Murphy's suicide, or perhaps that he's found dead, apparently having committed suicide?
Umm.. there's a weirdness with the Harry-gets-his-magic-and-moves-in-with-Justin timeline which should probably be mentioned, if it hasn't already.
SK is the only mention of him being ten. If there are others, I have yet to find them anywhere. However, there are two mentions of him being twelve in GS, and I know for certain there's a WoJ supporting it; I just can't seem to be able to dig it up.
Umm.. there's a weirdness with the Harry-gets-his-magic-and-moves-in-with-Justin timeline which should probably be mentioned, if it hasn't already.
SK is the only mention of him being ten. If there are others, I have yet to find them anywhere. However, there are two mentions of him being twelve in GS, and I know for certain there's a WoJ supporting it; I just can't seem to be able to dig it up.
His first unconscious manifestation, the long jump, was when he was ten. He was adopted soon after. Harry was twelve when he consciously produced his first spell: "flickum bicus."
How old were Eb and Maggie Sr when they first manifested a talent?
Same age as Harry–around 12 or 13.
What's this then?
Did the manifested talent bit just refer to consciously casting a spell rather than random bursts?
Also, that's a rather large gap between first use and first conscious use.
Can anybody tell me the exact time Lisa Murphy married Richard Boughton? If so, in what story is this mentioned?We find out they're engaged in Blood Rites, Chapter 28. I don't recall that the wedding date is on page anywhere.
We find out they're engaged in Blood Rites, Chapter 28. I don't recall that the wedding date is on page anywhere.
Ok thanks!The only wedding I recall on page is Billy & Georgia's wedding, which was in the short story Something Borrowed (Takes place between Dead Beat and Proven Guilty).
Somehow I had the impression Harry was at that wedding (imagine Harry at the wedding with the family of Murphy). Clearly i am mistaken.
Ok thanks!
Somehow I had the impression Harry was at that wedding (imagine Harry at the wedding with the family of Murphy). Clearly i am mistaken.
Yep. You may be remembering the Murphy family reunion picnic in Blood Rites.
This has probably been asked before, but this is a huge thread...I've usually gone with the context of placing Harry just about a year younger than Jim. I don't know (textev) if that's accurate but it would give Jim the advantage of being also being within a year or so of the same age as Harry during the writing months. In March 0 ASF, that would set Harry at a few weeks less than 25-1/2. (Yes, I know that sometimes Jim has gone back to set a shortie in an earlier time setting, such as Irwin Pounder's earlier years, but Harry's own timeline in the books seems to roughly echo RL time.)
How do we square:
"25 BSF, October 31: Harry is born."
and:
"0 ASF, March: Storm Front. Harry is 25, according to Jim, and he's been wizarding professionally for two years. We can reasonably place the year 0 in the timeline within a year or two of 2000, and there's a fair amount of evidence indicating that it could be 2000."
with:
"AGE 27-28: Storm Front" ?
I'm in favour of the first two, since making him 25 in 2000 is easier for me to remember and calculate from, as we'd share the birth year 1975.
Yeah, but if you go any earlier than 1975, you get into another small problem: David Copperfield wouldn't have had his stage name yet.
Though maybe Jim hadn't quite thought that one through? :-\
Jim has told me, "His birthday was actually 1976. I've always meant him to be about five years younger than me."Always worth it to hear the word from The One Who Actually Knows This Stuff.
This may introduce plotholes, but I don't think it's any more hole-y than any other year. :D
is there a timeline for the RL stuff? like jim was born, jim wrote(uhh what was that short with murph and the troll?) when in this class on so and so date or even just the release dates? i didn't start reading til just before TC came out so idk nothing from before that. kinda a blessing, if i'd had to wait for each book from SF i'd have gone batty by now. anticipation and waiting fry my brain.
The release dates are all on Wikipedia, as is Jim's birthday. I don't see a need for a timeline for it.well. that IS a timeline. just not done here. which does answer my question roundabouts. thanks.
is there a timeline for the RL stuff? like jim was born, jim wrote(uhh what was that short with murph and the troll?) when in this class on so and so date or even just the release dates?For the real-life events, organizations and places which have been touched on during the DF, several examples have been mentioned even within this timeline thread, if I remember correctly. Others could be quickly researched.
I didn't see Thomas's birth listed on the timeline, or did I overlook it? If Harry is Oct 21, 25 BSF, then Thomas should be Feb 14, 31 BSF.
You overlooked it. It's there!
All in All I think the 1974 birth is the most plausible; it even adds nice parallels to the real world
ex
1.) Mayoral elections line up and the Terrorist paranoia that Nick presumably planned to exploit in the aftermath of the deadly plague. Also
2.) Beginning of the War on Terror corresponds with the beginning of the Vampire War; End of Iraq War and death of bin laden corresponds with the end of the Vampire War
...What else am I missing? Seems very likely I need to inform Jim he's wrong. :D
Another small item for the timeline:
21 October 1805 - Admiral Horatio Nelson dies of a gunshot wound suffered at the Battle of Trafalgar. Gard is present and takes the fatal bullet from his body. (From "Even Hand")
Nice one! Thanks!
Not to mention appropriate to a certain person we know. :)
Fantastic catch, Sharlee!
We should make a list of reasons why Harry's birth should be in certain years.
1974 (SF in 1999)
- Works with mayoral elections
- Dovetails with major post-9/11 historical events: terrorist paranoia, War on Terror, end or Iraq war, and death of bin Laden
- Closest to Knight Rider timeline
- Lydia's prophetic dream about the Challenger disaster in 1986 hits at a more plausible age (while still certainly plausible for Harry being born in 1976). Assuming she's talking about the assassination attempt on Reagan in 1981, this is also the most plausible.
- CON: David Kotkin (age 18) takes the stage name "David Copperfield" in 1974, though his career doesn't take off until 1975. Still, if Malcolm knew him from the SAM and even helped him choose a name, this isn't a deal-breaker.
1976 (SF in 2001)What else am I missing? Seems very likely I need to inform Jim he's wrong. :D
- WoJ (who can be fallible)
- David Copperfield attains fame in 1975.
- Holy cats, I am seriously coming up blank here.
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var year = parseInt(data.year.value);
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var result = "<table style\"width:100px;\">\n"
+ "<tr><td style=\"width:400px;\">Story/Event</td><td style=\"width:600px;\">Estimated Date</td></tr>\n"
+ "<tr><td style=\"width:400px;\" class=\"harry\"><strong>Harry Dresden is Born</strong></td><td style=\"width:600px;\">October 31st, " + (yearpre - 26) + "</td></tr>\n"
+ "<tr><td style=\"width:400px;\" class=\"harry\"><strong>Malcolm Dresden dies (6)</strong></td><td style=\"width:600px;\">After October 31st, "
+ (yearpre - 20) + ", before October 31st, " + (yearpre-19) + "</td></tr>\n"
+ "<tr><td style=\"width:400px;\" class=\"harry\"><strong>Harry learns shielding (10)</strong></td><td style=\"width:600px;\">After October 31st, "
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+ "<tr><td style=\"width:400px;\" class=\"harry\"><strong>Harry arrives in Chicago</strong></td><td style=\"width:600px;\">[Sometime in "
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+ "<tr><td style=\"width:400px;\" class=\"harry\"><strong>Harry joins Ragged Angel</strong></td><td style=\"width:600px;\">[Sometime in "
+ (yearpre - 5) + ", possibly " + (yearpre - 6) + "]</td></tr>\n"
+ "<tr><td style=\"width:400px;\" class=\"short\"><em><u>Restoration of Faith</u></em></td><td style=\"width:600px;\">Sometime in [late] "
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+ "<tr><td style=\"width:400px;\" class=\"harry\"><strong>Harry starts his own detective agency</strong></td><td style=\"width:600px;\">[Sometime in "
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+ "<tr><td style=\"width:400px;\" class=\"novel\">Storm Front</td><td style=\"width:600px;\">March " + year + "</td></tr>\n"
+ "<tr><td style=\"width:400px;\" class=\"novel\">Fool Moon</td><td style=\"width:600px;\">October " + year + " (during Full Moon)</td></tr>\n"
+ "<tr><td style=\"width:400px;\" class=\"short\"><em><u>B is for Bigfoot</u></em></td><td style=\"width:600px;\">Sometime in " + (year + 1) + "</td></tr>\n"
+ "<tr><td style=\"width:400px;\" class=\"short\"><em><u>Ghoul Goblin</u></em></td><td style=\"width:600px;\">After October "
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+ "<tr><td style=\"width:400px;\" class=\"novel\">Grave Peril</td><td style=\"width:600px;\">October " + (year+1) + "</td></tr>\n"
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+ "<tr><td style=\"width:400px;\" class=\"novel\">Death Masks</td><td style=\"width:600px;\">Late February " + (year+3) + "</td></tr>\n"
+ "<tr><td style=\"width:400px;\" class=\"harry\"><strong>Maggie is born</strong></td><td style=\"width:600px;\">Tail end of " + (year+3) + "</td></tr>\n"
+ "<tr><td style=\"width:400px;\" class=\"short\"><em><u>Vignette</u></em></td><td style=\"width:600px;\"> Sometime in " + (year+3) + " or " + (year+4) + "</td></tr>\n"
+ "<tr><td style=\"width:400px;\" class=\"novel\">Blood Rites</td><td style=\"width:600px;\">Late Autumn " + (year+4) + "</td></tr>\n"
+ "<tr><td style=\"width:400px;\" class=\"novel\">Dead Beat</td><td style=\"width:600px;\">October 31st, " + (year+5) + "</td></tr>\n"
+ "<tr><td style=\"width:400px;\" class=\"short\"><em><u>I Was a Teenage Bigfoot</u></em></td><td style=\"width:600px;\">November(?) " + (year+5) + "</td></tr>\n"
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+ "<tr><td style=\"width:400px;\" class=\"short\"><em><u>Day Off</u></em></td><td style=\"width:600px;\">[Spring?] " + (year+9) + "</td></tr>\n"
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+ "<tr><td style=\"width:400px;\" class=\"short\"><em><u></u>Last Call</em></td><td style=\"width:600px;\">March " + (year+10) + "</td></tr>\n"
+ "<tr><td style=\"width:400px;\" class=\"novel\">Turn Coat</td><td style=\"width:600px;\">Summer " + (year+10) + "</td></tr>\n"
+ "<tr><td style=\"width:400px;\" class=\"short\"><em><u>Bigfoot On Campus</u></em></td><td style=\"width:600px;\">mid-October " + (year+10) + "</td></tr>\n"
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+ "<tr><td style=\"width:400px;\" class=\"novel\">Changes</td><td style=\"width:600px;\">October " + (year+11) + "</td></tr>\n"
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</script>
<h3>Dresden Timeline Adjuster</h3>
<p>Based on the timeline found <a href="http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,1592.0.html">here</a>, I've tried to place a year to the
novels and short stories (I'll attempt to expand this, eventually). Just insert the year you believe <em><strong>Storm Front</strong></em> takes
place in and hit the button - this page will handle the rest.</p>
<p>Text in <text class="harry">red</text> represents key moments in Harry's life before Storm Front, plus a few extra items.
Text in <text class="novel">green</text> are the spots for full-length novels.
Text in <text class="short">blue</text> represents all of the other short stories and graphic novels published to date or known to be coming out.</p>
<p>Any text in brackets is personal extrapolation.</p>
<form>
Year for Storm Front:<input name="year" type="text" value=2000> Harry's Age:<input name="age" type="text" value=25><br/>
<input type="submit" value="Calculate" onClick="year_calc(this.form); return false;"><br />
</form>
<p>
<div id="output" style="width:1000px;">
<br />
</div>
</p>
</body>
</html>
Uh, the Ladies, Queens and Mothers, their mantles change very, very, very rarely in general. I mean, Mab’s been there for better than 1,000 years. And Maeve’s been there….there was a Winter Lady before Maeve, uh, in Mab’s time. And she didn’t fare so well the last time a Starborn was running around. And so….Mab and Maeve, um, **unintelligible**, I leave things here, don’t miss ‘em. I love to drop teases and hints and walk away smiling, but anyway. They don’t change very often at all.
First, let me say that these details have been super valuable to some work I've been doing for building a Dresden Timeline. Thanks to all who put forth details and edits. Well Done!
Moving on: I've been doing some research into Dresden Timeline as I've been trying to build an accurate timeline for the Dresden Files Role-Playing Game I'm running. I've always figured that Storm Front took place somewhere around 1999-2001 and that worked for the most part, but while doing research I decided that being able to track the moon, and seasons would be valuable information for running the game. One of the primary NPC's in the game is type of Lunar cycle Theriomorph. Thus, part of my research led me to build a timeline/spreadsheet of every Solstice and Equinox, in addition to every full moon and blue moon (two full moons in same month) and every total lunar eclipse from 1950 until 2015. Thus when I started to flesh out the details for Harry's birth date I knew I was going to arbitrarily place it on Halloween somewhere in the years 1974-1976 for the purposes of my game. When I cross referenced October 31st with my newly updated Full Moon Calendar I found that in 1974 Halloween was also the day of a Blue Moon.
Again, while Dresden details aren't specific for time frame, I'd say that this detail jumped out at me as potentially important detail. I personally think it is reasonable to suggest that Harry Dresden's birth date is October 31, 1974.
I'm trying to pin down any information about canonical events in the 1940s. This seems like an excellent place to pose such a question.
Any idea on the canonical dates for the Black Cats? Jack Murphy?Well the Jack Murphy and the black cats would have been much later, since Murphy has memories of her dad; He killed himself around 17 BSF.
Solid information about any supernatural groups active in the area during that time? Especially the White Court.
How much to we know about Kemmler and the White Council during World War 2?
Any references or thoughts would be helpful.
Well the Jack Murphy and the black cats would have been much later, since Murphy has memories of her dad; He killed himself around 17 BSF.
As far as WWII, the only things that come to mind was the talk of Kemmler raising mass graves and that brief description of Klaus the Toymaker vs the Nazi Sorcerer that was summoning demons(click to show/hide)
Here's another picky little historical tidbit:
In "Aftermath", Stallings mentions the FBI searching for clues to who attacked their building in Changes, and one of the names he drops is Osama bin Laden. Given that bin Laden was killed on May 2, 2011, this could be interpreted in two possible ways:
1) Changes could have happened before bin Laden's death. This would push back the estimated date of that novel to 2010 at the latest, and put Harry's birth in 1973 or earlier, not 1974.
2) Changes happened in 2011, but Bin Laden's death was recent enough for Stallings to sarcastically mention him as a suspect. Note that the other "suspect" Stallings mentions is Bigfoot -- and so far as we know, Stallings has no clue that Bigfoot is real in the Dresdenverse -- which is consistent with the notion that he's being sarcastic, here (i.e. "These feds are so clueless, they even suspect urban legends and a dead guy.").
In any case, unless Stallings is some sort of conspiracy crackpot, this surely supports the idea that Changes can't have happened any later than 2011. By 2012, even sarcastic references to anyone still hunting for bin Laden will have gotten far too stale for anyone to bother making.
Somewhat relevant: Jim wrote the story in early 2010. :D
Yeah, this nestles in nicely with the growing consensus that Storm Front takes place in 1999. Great catch!
We don't know for a fact Harry was exactly 25 in Storm Front. I can't imagine him being younger than 24, but yeah. Not necessarily 25.Fair point - I'd thought that we'd gotten some confirmation from Jim on that one, but you'd know much better than I would. The rest of this isn't an argument against your logic (or anyone else's) per se - rather it's an attempt to finally get to the bottom of all this. :) In all seriousness - please feel free to show I'm wrong on anything here. I'd rather have the right answer than think I do and be wrong.
Another thing for the pre-SF timeline. Morgan nukes a naagloshii at a Nevada testing facility in the fifties. Mentioned in page 55-56 in Turn Coat.
Dresden: "Stars and stones . . . that's . . . kind of Cool."
Morgan: "Gets me to sleep at night"
;)
From Backup, Thomas received his pendant from his mother on his fifth birthday.
Harry Carpenter is born and instantly doomed to get beaten up every day of his life.
Um, why? Is something wrong about his name? ???
It sounds like "Hairy Carpenter." It's not a very attractive mental image. :D Harry even makes a "poor kid" comment when Michael tells him his new son's name.
Another couple of additions to the timeline:
- Events of Ghoul Goblin happen "weeks" after Fool Moon. Probably not many, as there's no snow on the ground and Harry takes a dip in Lake Michigan without freezing half to death.
- Harry meets Father Forthill at some point between Ghoul Goblin and Grave Peril. (He claims that he's never seen a ghoul before in the former, while he thanks Forthill for blessing some holy water for use against ghouls in the latter.)
I'll re-read Ghoul Goblin tonight and check again if it gets any more specific about the date. Also there are some backstory events for other characters Harry met in that adventure, if it's appropriate to include dates for those.
Note that there's one obvious dating discrepancy in the Ghoul Goblin comic: at one point, Deputy Tremaine says that Mayor Cedar was elected in '98, which contradicts Cedar's own remark that she's been running the town for 15 years. As other commentary suggests that she ran for office very soon after returning from Egypt, it seems likely that this is a math error: Butcher must've subtracted 15 from the year when he wrote Ghoul Goblin, temporarily forgetting that it was set shortly after Fool Moon and thus, needed to be backdated a bit.Was the context specifically about the position of Mayor, or could Cedar have been referring to general Influence over the town rather than the actual elected position?
Was the context specifically about the position of Mayor, or could Cedar have been referring to general Influence over the town rather than the actual elected position?
Was the context specifically about the position of Mayor, or could Cedar have been referring to general Influence over the town rather than the actual elected position?
Considering Boone Mill's apparent size, it doesn't seem like the sort of place to have a very complicated political hierarchy. Possibly if Cedar had owned most of the town, she might justifiably be able to claim she'd been "running" it before being elected, but it's pretty clear that the elder Talbot brother is Boone Mill's top employer and richest resident, not her.Where is Boone mill located? I lots of the country Winter does not equal consistent snow. Especially since Summer gained the upper hand and caused Global Warming ;)
BTW, I disregarded the blurb at the beginning of Ghoul Goblin that says it's "months" since Fool Moon, as the lack of snow on the ground makes it clear it's not winter yet. It's not part of the actual story anyway, just an out-of-verse update for the readers, so I think we should write it off as another Covers Always Lie goof, like Harry's nonexistent hat.
Oh, one more I spotted:
~30 years before Dead Beat: Collin Murphy saves rookie CPD officer Rawlins from an unspecified supernatural creature in a dark alley, killing it with a shotgun full of rock salt.
Oh, one more I spotted:
~30 years before Dead Beat: Collin Murphy saves rookie CPD officer Rawlins from an unspecified supernatural creature in a dark alley, killing it with a shotgun full of rock salt.
In 1961, you forgot to include that Justin Dumorne acquired Bob the Skull from the "smoldering ruins of Kemmler's lab".
No exact date given, but Bombshells strongly implies that either Daniel or Matthew Carpenter served in Afghanistan. Can we figure out which, and narrow down when this may have happened?
Assuming that Jim knows that you need to be 18 and a high school graduate to join the service, I believe the only possible person it could be is Daniel. I'm not sure any of the other kids are out of high school yet (during "Bombshells")
Assuming that Jim knows that you need to be 18 and a high school graduate to join the service, I believe the only possible person it could be is Daniel. I'm not sure any of the other kids are out of high school yet (during "Bombshells")
Another suggestion that just came to me, no specific reference: If we assume Mouse had a normal development pattern for a dog (and his vet didn't seem to spot anything odd), he would've been born about 8-9 weeks before Blood Rites. Old enough to be paper trained and to handle Thomas's large breed puppy chow, but still be small enough that Harry doesn't initially realize he's that adopting a woolly rhinoceros. ;DI doubt he is normal on any side of that. By angelic confirmation we know they dont age normally, and even an exceptionally young puppy of a 200+ lb breed would never have been small enough to fit in harry's duster pocket.
Another suggestion that just came to me, no specific reference: If we assume Mouse had a normal development pattern for a dog (and his vet didn't seem to spot anything odd), he would've been born about 8-9 weeks before Blood Rites. Old enough to be paper trained and to handle Thomas's large breed puppy chow, but still be small enough that Harry doesn't initially realize he's that adopting a woolly rhinoceros. ;D
This (http://www.pinterest.com/pin/249527635576242831/) is a Tibetan Mastiff at 10 weeks. :DHarry's coat pockets must be bigger on the inside.
Harry's coat pockets must be bigger on the inside.Bag of holding
Bag of holding
This (http://www.pinterest.com/pin/249527635576242831/) is a Tibetan Mastiff at 10 weeks. :D
Also, Baby Borden would have been born two months after Changes, assuming no complications. Georgia was 7 months pregnant in Aftermath.
Anyone know if name or gender has ever been mentioned?
WoJ is girl. No name, as far as I'm aware.perhaps it's in the timeline and I'm just not seeing it...but where is Maggie LeFae's birtdate
perhaps it's in the timeline and I'm just not seeing it...but where is Maggie LeFae's birtdate
I don't think there is enough information to get that specific.So sometime after Eb reached maturity and possibly a score of years before Thomas was born
I know I'm being picky here, but ... you have SG in February. Typically the ice on the Great Lakes doesn't start breaking up until March.
"Your friends have been trying to visit you for several weeks, but the lake ice has held unusually long this year. Alas.”
Butcher, Jim (2014-05-27). Skin Game: A Novel of the Dresden Files (p. 9). Penguin Group US. Kindle Edition.
This year, they brought in an Ice Breaker to break the ice. I could totally see the ice being a problem until late March or early April if Mab is taking a hand in it.
It specifically says "February" elsewhere in the book, alas.Thanks for the info.
And Maggie was over a hundred when her boys were born.
Thanks for the info.A few explanations.
Let's see if I understand the timeline between Changes and Skin Games.
GS happend 6 months after Changes. Then Cold Days happend 3 months after that.
So if Cold Days happened at the end of October, going backwords, Ghost Story happened somewhere at the end of July and Changes near the end of February all in the same year???
Going forward from Cold Days. Harry hasn't seen Molly in more than a year and its February in Chicago (although someone is confused about what weather is like in Chicago area in February) ....so Skin Games is about a year and 4 months later.
Also, if Magaret Gwendolyn LeFae was about 100 when she had her kids....isn't that a bit of a stretch.... I understood wizards live along time but they still age and get older...at least in looks.....is this a conundrum or is it that in wizard biology...turning 100 is like mortals turning 30.
Thanks for the info.
Let's see if I understand the timeline between Changes and Skin Games.
GS happend 6 months after Changes. Then Cold Days happend 3 months after that.
So if Cold Days happened at the end of October, going backwords, Ghost Story happened somewhere at the end of July and Changes near the end of February all in the same year???
Going forward from Cold Days. Harry hasn't seen Molly in more than a year and its February in Chicago (although someone is confused about what weather is like in Chicago area in February) ....so Skin Games is about a year and 4 months later.
Also, if Magaret Gwendolyn LeFae was about 100 when she had her kids....isn't that a bit of a stretch.... I understood wizards live along time but they still age and get older...at least in looks.....is this a conundrum or is it that in wizard biology...turning 100 is like mortals turning 30.
Jim recently commented on the nature of wizard aging, hinting that female wizards can "cheat" the usual limitations on fertility. He didn't comment further. Curious!
*Points at the fountain of youth*
A few explanations.thanks...makes sense
Margaret spend a lot of time in the nevernever so her body did not go through all those years, she was physically younger than chronologically.
Different wizards might, depending on their talent and use of magic, experience ageing differently. We have only a limited data set.
Margaret spend a lot of time with Lea, she might have been in the process of becoming something else.....
Not quite. Changes and Cold Days take place about a year apart, with Ghost Story at the approximate midway point. See the first posts on this thread:
11 ASF, October: Changes
And 45 minutes later: Aftermath, a novelette from Murphy's POV, published exclusively in Side Jobs.
12 ASF, May 9th: Ghost Story
12 ASF, September: Bombshells, the Molly-POV story from Dangerous Women.
12 ASF, October 31: Cold Days
14 ASF, late February: Skin Game
She wore a soft blue nightgown and a shawl to ward against the October chill in the night, and her bright blue eyes flicked around alertly.Chapter 28:
I felt myself grinning fiercely as he vanished through the broken window and into the cool air of the October night.And Chapter 33:
“Yes, my liege!” Toot said. He brandished his sword with a flourish, sheathed it, and zipped straight up into the October sky.
Sir Stuart pursed his lips. “It seems to me that if your demise was to leave someone vulnerable, something would have happened to them already. It’s been six months, after all.”
I felt my jaw drop open. “W-what? Six months?”
The ghost nodded. “Today is the ninth of May, to be precise.”
“You do that every day. Talk before you’ve gotten anything down your throat. Drink.”
I did. Campbell’s. And it was awesome. I flashed on a sudden memory, of being sick when I was very young. I couldn’t remember where we’d been, but my dad had made me chicken noodle soup. It was the same.
“I think… I remember some of it,” I said, after several sips. “Your name is… Sarah?” She frowned, but I shook my head before she could speak. “No, wait. Sarissa. Your name is Sarissa.”
She lifted both eyebrows and smiled. “That’s a first. It looks like you’re finally coming back into focus.”
From Changes, chapter 18:Chapter 28:And Chapter 33:thanks. One reference from each book is enough. :)
And from chapter 4 of Ghost Story:
As for Cold Days, Harry spends a substantial length of time achieving the necessary consciousness to remember a conversation. There's a big gap between waking up on Demonreach in the final moment of Ghost Story and the first scene of Cold Days:
The exact length of time can be flexible, as it takes place in the Nevernever, which doesn't have to have a 1:1 correlation with the mortal world.
It specifically says "February" elsewhere in the book, alas.
And Maggie was over a hundred when her boys were born.
Do we know when Harry and Michael met? (Is there a short story crammed somewhere odd that I've missed?)
Think of the Timeline, Jim. We need it to be complete. ;-)Wait for the time travel book and then the whole time line will be an incomprehensible mess. ;D
How did Michael know about Elaine in Grave Peril?
At that point Michael and Harry had had enough bonding time for Harry to share some things with Michael that he hadn’t shared with anybody else. He’d actually known Michael for about a year by the time Grave Peril got started.
Found this in the transcript from Jim's Booknation Talk interview last month:
That would put it right around Fool Moon, since both it and GP were October stories, but no idea where it falls between them. Any hint of Harry knowing Michael in Ghoul, Goblin?
Found this in the transcript from Jim's Booknation Talk interview last month:
That would put it right around Fool Moon, since both it and GP were October stories, but no idea where it falls between them. Any hint of Harry knowing Michael in Ghoul, Goblin?
Jim misremembered. Harry and Michael knew each other at least 5 years before "Grave Peril." As he moved to Chicago 6 years before Grave Peril, they'd known each other 5-6 years.Ah, kk, That makes more sense actually, 1 year seemed a little short a time-span for Harry to open up that much, given his reticence with other friendships.
This one's extremely trivial, but considering how little we know about Harry's parents, it might rate a mention for completeness's sake:
25 BSF, some time between August and October - Malcolm Dresden and his heavily-pregnant wife Margaret visit the Lincoln Memorial.
This comes from the photograph Harry mentions in Death Masks, as his only remaining tangible image of his mother.
4 BSF, summer - Murphy and SI eliminate two trolls, and do it without help from Harry who is off chasing tornadoes.BSF is Before Storm Front, that happened after.
Correcting an error.
in the Timeline War Cry is listed as 6 ASF, March
In Issue one, Harry says that it's been 4 months since Yoshimo broke her leg. That sets War Cry in February 6 ASF.
*headdesk*
WHY would they change that? Even with wizard healing, 5 months was pushing it in terms of credibility for Yukie's level of mobility. Siiiiiiigh.
*headdesk*
WHY would they change that? Even with wizard healing, 5 months was pushing it in terms of credibility for Yukie's level of mobility. Siiiiiiigh.
Correcting an error.
in the Timeline War Cry is listed as 6 ASF, March
In Issue one, Harry says that it's been 4 months since Yoshimo broke her leg. That sets War Cry in February 6 ASF.
Dead Beat is at the very end of October (29th - 31st). Precisely 4 months would put us into the end of February/beginning of March, depending on the day of the break and whether or not it's a leap year... so it's hard to get precision on exactly when Jim is placing this.
True, it could have been the first week of March. Though that is still verging on month 5.
Technically late May is still spring. I shall have to notify him of this, when betadom begins. :D
Astronomically Summer starts in June, but I've always referred to Summer as starting at the end of May, at least in the UK everyone I know follows that rule, we're british so we need all the summer we can get. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same in the US, usually there's a holiday that goes with it like Memorial Day.I usually think of it as:
I usually think of it as:Is that the astronomical way?
- Spring: March, April, May
- Summer: June, July, August
- Autumn/Fall: September, October, November
- Winter: December, January, February
The astronomical way is:
Spring: March 20 - June 20
Summer: June 21 - September 22
Fall: September 23 - December 20
Winter: December 21 - March 19
Your way makes a lot more sense to me, though.
(We'll also not get into how that might impact, say, Mab during a visit to New Zealand...)Well, fwiw, there is a WOJ about the Stone Table that indicates both courts have access to it when and where they should. So it appears that while Summer is in power in the Northern Hemisphere, Winter is in Power in the Southern, and Vice Versa.
Well, fwiw, there is a WOJ about the Stone Table that indicates both courts have access to it when and where they should. So it appears that while Summer is in power in the Northern Hemisphere, Winter is in Power in the Southern, and Vice Versa.
There seems to be a math error in this:I agree with you here. I've tried to point out the same thing. FWIW, I'm still in the "Storm Front is in 2000" camp, which would have Harry being born in '74, as you've mentioned.
Still, there is compelling data that suggests "Storm Front" takes place in 1999, putting Harry's birth in 1974:
IF 3 ASF is 2003 then 0 ASF would be 2000, and if Harry was 25 in March of 2000 then he would have been born in 1974.(remember his birthday is October 31)
Harry being born in '74 does not conflict with Copperfield because Copperfield's first big job in show business was starring in the musical "The Magic Man" which opened in Chicago in March of 1974
There seems to be a math error in this:
Still, there is compelling data that suggests "Storm Front" takes place in 1999, putting Harry's birth in 1974:
IF 3 ASF is 2003 then 0 ASF would be 2000, and if Harry was 25 in March of 2000 then he would have been born in 1974.(remember his birthday is October 31)
Harry being born in '74 does not conflict with Copperfield because Copperfield's first big job in show business was starring in the musical "The Magic Man" which opened in Chicago in March of 1974
What year was Dresden born?
Uhhhhh…ahhh…let’s see… the first book was in 2000 and he was 25 in that book, so what’s that, mid nineteen-seventy… five?...yeah… '75, '76? He’s about 5 years younger than me.
They're supposed to be close to the same age…“Close” and 12-17 don’t match well. The least differential I can compute with those #’s is a 9 year difference -- still not “close”.
The dates of "36-39 BSF" correlates with Charity being 22-25 when she was rescued.???
Series (After Storm Front)
11 ASF, October: Changes
And 45 minutes later: Aftermath, a novelette from Murphy's POV, published exclusively in Side Jobs.
12 ASF, May 9th: Ghost Story
Changes happens in October of 11ASF.
Ghost Story Starts May 9th 12ASF.
In GS Harry is told he’s been “gone” 6 months (May to October is only 5 months). Are we a month off here, or did Changes happen late enough in October (very near the 31st) that “Early May to Late October” is considered “close enough” (whole of May thru Oct inclusive is 6 months).
Maybe it's just me, and maybe the rest of this thread is TL; DR to check, but I always thought that Changes was set in November, it being six months before May and all... There would DEFINITELY have been some sort of mention about Harry's b-day coming up in Changes had it been in October, especially if it was so late in the month...
7 ASF, May: White Night. Marcone becomes the first vanilla human freeholding lord under the Unseelie Accords. Molly is 19, somehow having celebrated two birthdays in the ten months between this book and Proven Guilty, in which she was 17.
First Issue of Down Town. Harry says White Night was a few months ago, yet he also says that Molly is 20 and there is snow on the ground [at least near Harry's house]. Snow or not, it is clearly cold.
For Molly to be 20, it would have to be 2008 (8 ASF). Is this set in January 2008? Does this mean that Mollys' Birthday is in January?
It's set in February, in the days before the short story "It's My Birthday Too," which takes place on Valentine's Day. In that story, Molly is referred to as being "just out of her teens."
There seems to be a math error in this:
Still, there is compelling data that suggests "Storm Front" takes place in 1999, putting Harry's birth in 1974:
IF 3 ASF is 2003 then 0 ASF would be 2000, and if Harry was 25 in March of 2000 then he would have been born in 1974.(remember his birthday is October 31)
Harry being born in '74 does not conflict with Copperfield because Copperfield's first big job in show business was starring in the musical "The Magic Man" which opened in Chicago in March of 1974
I'm not sure where you're getting your "If 3 ASF is 2003" supposition.
0 ASF, March: Storm Front. Harry is 25, according to Jim, and he's been wizarding professionally for two years. We can reasonably place the year 0 in the timeline within a year or two of 2000, and there's a fair amount of evidence indicating that it could be 2000.
...
3 ASF, late February: Death Masks. Susan has been gone about a year and a half.
Note that we can place this book "a few years" after 1997, when the Shroud was nearly destroyed in a mysterious fire (http://www.parascope.com/articles/0597/shroud.htm). [DM 28]
Also, this is a mayoral election year, so we can assume with confidence that this book takes place in 2003. (thanks, Katarn!)
Sorry to rehash this point - I've been away a while - but I think Beamer is correct.I covered this in a post on the previous page but...
We have no information whether Victor had ever demonstrated talent previously. We would probably have to accept this as a “retcon”, as it is later established that unused talents atrophy. Mort Lindquist is one example. He never completely lost it and worked his way back into it. Charity Carpenter is another. We’ve been lead to believe that she could, theoretically, recover her talent but it would be a long, difficult process. Regardless, Victor is a “natural” who “found” his magic – or, as we’ve come to believe, was likely introduced to it… at about age 30-35...and likely coached to some degree. A question is, when did this happen in the story timeline?
We know from the FBI agent in Changes that some people with magical talent can make use of it unconsciously, without actually knowing that talent exists. Agent Tilly was able to tell if people were lying to him, retaining that knack and even putting it to use professionally, without knowing where his insights came from. Possibly Sells' talent had a similarly low-key manifestation that he didn't recognize as such, or just didn't opt to tell his wife about, until something convinced him to investigate whether it had a supernatural basis.Agreed. The key difference seems to be that Tilly is activly, if unconsciously, exercising his power, whereas Charity was very consciously avoiding anything close.
Omg, isn't there a WoJ or canon reference somewhere that says Mac opened his Bar around the same time Harry moved to Chicago?
I'll scour the more recent WoJs to be sureStill haven't found it? Idk for sure, maybe m way off cause I haven't had my books with me for a few, but maybe Harry says something about when Mac got there in monologue in one of the two or three most recent books, when he's headed there for one of the various meetings. Idk for sure though.
What we know about Mac: he opened his pub a few years before Harry Dresden came to Chicago; nobody knows where he’d been before that or what he’d done.
{Arachnid Alien to the Rescue} Technically not a WoJ, but here's a quote from the entry on Mac in the DFRPG:
The rest of the description is taken completely from the books, so it's not impossible this part is as well.
{Arachnid Alien to the Rescue} Technically not a WoJ, but here's a quote from the entry on Mac in the DFRPG:Quote from: Our World page 180What we know about Mac: he opened his pub a few years before Harry Dresden came to Chicago; nobody knows where he’d been before that or what he’d done.
The rest of the description is taken completely from the books, so it's not impossible this part is as well.
Edit: Perhaps our timeline chick can verify this factoid with Jim or the RPG crew that have access to the notes Jim provided. BTW, I skimmed through the beginning of Heriot and didn't find anything on this.
I sipped at the ale and mused. I knew little of Mac's background. He'd opened the tavern a few years before I'd moved to Chicago. No one I'd talked to knew where he'd been before that, or what he had done.
Eldest Gruff pointed out later that this is also referenced in DB. Much better source.
Perhaps it's worth adding this little tidbit to the wiki entry on Mac.
I just came across this in his topic in the theory section.
That topic is passing Go, collecting it's $200 and then plopping down in the DFRC!
(Oh, and I'm kinda proud at my contribution to this eventual addition to the timeline ;) )
Sweeeet.
here ya go
(http://media.winnipegfreepress.com/images/333*342/4670194.jpg)
"Hngh," Nick said. Lines appeared on his brow. "There's one, where they all wear the hoodies with the hoods up all the time. Got rolling maybe three or four years back. They don't call themselves anything, but the gangs call them the Big Hoods. No one knows much about them."
The entry for Drakul's birth says that he is a Half-Mortal, Half-Demon scion. Is that confirmed? There is a lot of speculation circling him and his heritage, with either Demon or Dragon being the front-runners. If this has been settled I want to let folks know.So, the AMA is still in progress, but we got this answered...sort of:
"Drakul wasn't a scion of anything! He was something entirely unhuman that got trapped in human form."
So, the AMA is still in progress, but we got this answered...sort of:
Dracula was his half-human child, who naturally had enormous paternal issues, and wound up creating himself as the first Black Court Vampire in an effort to win his father's approval.
Victor Sell's children, are they listed on the timeline? Not sure how old they were in Storm Front.Page 43, post #657. Exact ages aren't given in text, but close approximations are given.
What about Elaine? She is starborn and it appears from their conversations together that Harry and Elaine are the same age or very close to it. Was she born on the same day that Harry was?Not the same day. I think either WOJ or the books say it was within a few months, though.
ARE WE EVER GOING TO MEET LEFAY'S MOTHER?
As in Ebenezar's wife? Well, not unless we go back and do the French and Indian War thing probably.
ARE WE GOING TO FIND OUT WHO SHE IS?
She was a mortal. She died somewhere around 1810 I think. I've got it all written down somewhere. Plus I can check Wikipedia. I often look at Wikipedia before I go somewhere else. Because you guys keep track of it way better than I do. I mean, by the time Im done with a book, I've seen 7 or 8 slightly different versions, and then maybe 2 or 3 versions that I chose not to write, so by the time you get to Book 13 of the series, that's 13 times 12 - that many different versions of the book so it starts getting hard to do the book-keeping in my head with all of that - so I go to Wikipedia - which is great.
Which gives us an age for Margaret, since she'd then have probably been born around 1800 (give or take 2 years).
Two new dates in the timeline are the "birth" of Mavra ~600 years ago and Ebenezer becoming the Blackstaff in 1885-6.
Source?
It certainly gives us a tidy age range! While we don't yet know exactly how old she was when her mother died, that WoJ makes me believe she was no older than her early teens, so she was likely born sometime between 1797 and 1810. What most interests me is that this means she and Luccio are close to the same age. :D
Source?
Might be worth adding to the timeline, along with the Luccio Entry, "Circa 1800" a mention of Margaret's Birth.
Time stamped link in new Q&A podcast for Eb gaining blackstaff (https://youtu.be/4Gmu76ritoQ?t=2959)
Timestamped link to Mavra WoJ (it covers a little more than her age, which is at the end of that answer) (https://youtu.be/4Gmu76ritoQ?t=1386)
I did so yesterday. :D
It certainly gives us a tidy age range! While we don't yet know exactly how old she was when her mother died, that WoJ makes me believe she was no older than her early teens, so she was likely born sometime between 1797 and 1810. What most interests me is that this means she and Luccio are close to the same age. :D
Might be worth adding to the timeline, along with the Luccio Entry, "Circa 1800" a mention of Margaret's Birth.
If this is right, it doesn't fit with her bearing Thomas and Harry when she does. Is there any way she could have been born a few decades later?
I'm a newbie here, so please treat me gently. Apologies if this isn't the right place to bring this up.Welcome to the forums Retrosteve. Usually discussions like this happens in the DF Spoilers section here (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/board,3.0.html?PHPSESSID=ijk72liscs6egp4in5n8l3e570). The Reference Collection is generally kept as somewhere for people to look up facts and archived theories for use in the spoilers section discussions.
We've had several tidbits stating how wizards live a long time but don't stay young and pretty as they do so. Harry, at 38, already notices that he looks older than Thomas. From the way Harry describes the older wizards and their ages, it looks like they age near-normally up to about age 40-50, then slow down their aging drastically afterward, stretching their decrepitude for another 2-3 centuries.
Luccio mentions that she hasn't had menses or felt much sexual desire for over a century.
By that measure, her contemporary Margaret LeFay at 100 should have gone through menopause about 40-50 years ago, and should not be giving birth, right? She might be a perfectly-healthy woman of apparent age around 65.
If this is right, it doesn't fit with her bearing Thomas and Harry when she does. Is there any way she could have been born a few decades later?
"He's never been easy to read. And I've known him since I was sixteen years old.TC, Ch. 49.
1731 (269 BSF): Aleron LaFortier is born.posting 1738 the latest reasonable date of Eb's birth be reasonable?
1754 to 1763: The French and Indian War. According to Jim, this was an eventful time in Ebenezer’s life!
Looking at Wikipedia, Krakatoa happened in 1883, so either Jim was mistaken about Eb's getting the Blackstaff, or there's some time-shenanigans going on (not completely crazy, since it sounds a little like what might have happened had the "banefire" gone off).Good catch. In BR Eb claimed credit for Tunguska (1908), New Madrid (1811-1812, 1895, or 1968), and Krakatoa (1883). In the case of Krakatoa I guess it's possible that he did something to destabilize it that resulted in a delayed eruption a couple years later. But my inner child is hoping for Time Travel (because Time Travel!)
Either way, this seems to have been one of the first missions of Ebenezer as Blackstaff (perhaps the one in which his predecessor died?).
- CON: Butters assures Harry that he's vaccinated against smallpox, but routine vaccination of the American public stopped in 1972 after the disease was eradicated in the United States.
Someone (or even I) may have already said this, but I was born in 1974, in the United States, and I had the smallpox vaccination (and I have the scar to prove it).
I'm not suggesting that people born after 1972 couldn't have been vaccinated, but at a time when Butters barely knows Harry, he states "You're vaccinated" with zero hesitation whatsoever. It's Butters' certainty that causes me to pause over that detail. Unless Butters assumes Harry is a few years older than he really is (maybe the same age as Murphy?), I'm considering it a conflict.It wouldn't be that off an assumption -- as Professor Henry Jones, Jr. once said, "It's not the years, it's the mileage." Harry's been through a lot, it wouldn't surprise me if people tended to assume he's older than he actually is.
I'm not suggesting that people born after 1972 couldn't have been vaccinated, but at a time when Butters barely knows Harry, he states "You're vaccinated" with zero hesitation whatsoever. It's Butters' certainty that causes me to pause over that detail. Unless Butters assumes Harry is a few years older than he really is (maybe the same age as Murphy?), I'm considering it a conflict.Don't smallpox vaccinations leave distinctive scarring? I forget the exact context of Butter's remarks, could he be referring to that?
Don't smallpox vaccinations leave distinctive scarring? I forget the exact context of Butter's remarks, could he be referring to that?
And ack! I realized my statement "works with Knight Rider timeline" is no longer accurate. I made note of that in the timeline before Ghost Story was written, and in Ghost Story Harry states that he was 13 when the show was on. I didn't notice when I was betaing that in order for that detail to fit, Harry would've had to have been born between 1968 and 1973, which directly contradict the David Copperfield stage name timeline.
An easy retcon/explanation could be that Harry was watching Knight Rider reruns, but I'm not sure if the show did reruns on Fridays in 1987-1988.
I can't find proof, but I am fairly certain that Knight Rider did rerun after it ended. Reminds me of how I remember being a big fan of the original Star Trek, even though I was only about 4 or 5 when it ended. I used to watch it on reruns in the early 70's.
It definitely reran in '87 and '88--I found quotes from people online who recall watching reruns those years--but I jut don't know the day of the week they were on. Harry specifically says he watched them on Friday.
Just noticed that Jury Duty isnt on the timeline. I think it's supposed to be set after Skin Game, yes?
I just ran across an Anthology Pre-Order offer on Amazon, which Jim is apparently the author of? It doesn't say anything about the names of the short stories included ... and the new book isn't on this site, as far as I can see.It is an anthology of short stories edited by Joseph Nassise, which includes a reprinting of Even Hand, a Dresden Files short story told from the point of view of John Marcone, which was originally published in Dark and Stormy Knights, edited by Pat Elrod. Jim was the first Aurthor listed and I think Amazon's system just displays his name first. All of the Dresden Books and Short Stories are listed Here (http://www.jim-butcher.com/books/dresden) if you need a reference.
Would you clarify the details about "Urban Enemies" by Jim Butcher releasing on August 1, 2017?
Thanks!
https://www.amazon.com/Urban-Enemies-Jim-Butcher/dp/1501155083 (https://www.amazon.com/Urban-Enemies-Jim-Butcher/dp/1501155083)
1812: Ebenezar causes the New Madrid Earthquake [BR, 297], the largest earthquake ever recorded in the contiguous United States and an estimated 8.0 on the Richter scale. Clearly, he's been Blackstaff for a long time!
Eb took up the Blackstaff in 1884-1885 somewhere in there. The Blackstaff chooses his successor.
Hey Priscellie, Jim gave us a ballpark figure for when Eb took up the blackstaff that conflicts with this. Someone quoted ya on reddit and I was like, "Wait a minute..." and had to go digging.
Jim tends to be more prone to mistakes when he's speaking off the cuff (and y'know, not being betaed :D), but who knows? I'll run it by him.
Series (After Storm Front)
0 ASF, April: Storm Front. Harry is 27 or 28, and he's been wizarding professionally for two years. As an anonymous reader points out, "I was just starting Storm Front again, and I noticed this:Quote from: Storm Front chapter 1The end of the twentieth century and the dawn of the new millennium had seen something of a renaissance in the public awareness of the paranormal...which would seem to imply that the events of Storm Front take place no earlier than 2000." I'm guessing 2002 at the very earliest, meaning that the Dresden books occur a few years into the future with respect to when they're published.
I'm tired of living in the shadows...It was ME! I'm the anonymous tipster...but seriously, did I forget to sign that email?
Ebenezar shrugged. “He’s never been easy to read. And I’ve known him since I was sixteen years old.
Bolding of quote from book added:
which would seem to imply that the events of Storm Front take place no earlier than 2000." I'm guessing 2002 at the very earliest, meaning that the Dresden books occur a few years into the future with respect to when they're published.
I'm tired of living in the shadows...It was ME! I'm the anonymous tipster...but seriously, did I forget to sign that email?
I can't find a reference to the bolded quote in the timeline any more... I searched through the replies in the topic and couldn't find the reason, so can you provide it?
Random bit of specificity I can across that might fit in the "Eb and Langtry have know each other since way back" item:
It definitely reran in '87 and '88--I found quotes from people online who recall watching reruns those years--but I jut don't know the day of the week they were on. Harry specifically says he watched them on Friday.According to the Wiki, The first season was aired on Sunday nights.
According to the Wiki, The first season was aired on Sunday nights.
However, when the year changed from 1982 to 1983, it was moved from Friday's to Sundays.
Then in March of 1985, it was moved back to Fridays. Which is where it stayed until the end of it's run.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Rider_(1982_TV_series)#Episodes[/url)
According to the Wiki, The first season was aired on Sunday nights.
However, when the year changed from 1982 to 1983, it was moved from Friday's to Sundays.
Then in March of 1985, it was moved back to Fridays. Which is where it stayed until the end of it's run.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Rider_(1982_TV_series)#Episodes[/url)
According to this nifty old promo, Knight Rider aired weeknights at 5pm on USA in 1987 in at least one market. So, Friday works just fine.
https://youtu.be/Z5uJm0UTcUc
According to this nifty old promo, Knight Rider aired weeknights at 5pm on USA in 1987 in at least one market. So, Friday works just fine.Dude! Incredible research-fu! You rock.
https://youtu.be/Z5uJm0UTcUc
Should 14 October 1066, The Battle of Hastings, be listed on this timeline? We know from the text (CD I believe) that Mab and Titania ascended to their roles then. And we further know from various WOJs that this is when the Fae begin their guardianship of the Outer Gates. These seem quite worthy of inclusion.What we know and what we infer are two vastly different things fyi. That's not known. We know they last talked at Hastings, and a few other things iirc, but not that itself. It's a probably accurately surmised though.
What we know and what we infer are two vastly different things fyi. That's not known. We know they last talked at Hastings, and a few other things iirc, but not that itself. It's a probably accurately surmised though.
"I have not exchanged words with my sister since before Hastings."
And when you are assuming, you make an ass out of u and some guy name Ming.
She said the last time they'd spoken was at Hastings. We are assuming it's the battle of....If the quote from Cold Days is accurate, her exact words (very important with the Fae) were "before" Hastings, which indicates that Titania is thinking of it as an event, not a location. Strictly speaking it doesn't require that either of them be at the battle or that the conversation had anything to do with Norman-English politics, only that it happened before the battle.
Don't know what I like better, the eyebrows or the 'stache.Pretty sure they came from the same ferret... :P
If the quote from Cold Days is accurate, her exact words (very important with the Fae) were "before" Hastings, which indicates that Titania is thinking of it as an event, not a location. Strictly speaking it doesn't require that either of them be at the battle or that the conversation had anything to do with Norman-English politics, only that it happened before the battle.
Then again, we don't know how long before Hastings either, right?Well she remembered something vaguely about no Normans yet and a saxon king so that is between around 900AD and 1066AD :)
CON: Butters assures Harry that he's vaccinated against smallpox, but routine vaccination of the American public stopped in 1972 after the disease was eradicated in the United States.Butters is six years older than Harry. I wouldn't be surprised if Butters just assumes Harry is the same age as him. Butters could just be assuming that anyone who is an adult going around doing adult things like gruesome murder investigations can't be younger than him.