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McAnally's (The Community Pub) => Author Craft => Topic started by: Yeratel on April 19, 2008, 03:30:02 AM
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Romance writer, publisher split up over plagiarism claims
Published: 4/18/08, 7:46 PM EDT
By HILLEL ITALIE
NEW YORK (AP) - Romance writer Cassie Edwards and publisher Signet Books have decided to break up after allegations emerged in January that in she lifted passages in several of her books from other sources.
"Signet has conducted an extensive review of all its Cassie Edwards novels and due to irreconcilable editorial differences, Ms. Edwards and Signet have mutually agreed to part ways," the publisher said in a statement Friday.
"Cassie Edwards novels will no longer be published with Signet Books. All rights to Ms. Edwards' previously published Signet books have reverted to the author."
Signet publicist Craig Burke said that the publisher, an imprint of Penguin Group (USA), would have no additional comment. Edwards, whose many books include "Bold Wolf," "Silver Feather" and "Falcon Moon," was not immediately available for comment.
A romance novel Web site called Smart B------, Trashy Books posted excerpts in January from Edwards' novels and placed them alongside similar passages from reference books and magazines.
Penguin initially said that Edwards, who lives in Mattoon, Ill., had "done nothing wrong" and that any use of other texts was protected by "fair-use doctrine."
Edwards has written more than 100 novels, although not all with Penguin, which has said that more than 10 million copies of her work are in print.
"Writing my Indian romances is my small tribute to those beautiful first people of our land who have suffered so much injustice," Edwards writes on her home page on Penguin's Web site. "And I have just begun. My upcoming books will continue with more passion and adventure and rich historical settings. Enjoy!"
In a phone interview in January, the author told The Associated Press that she indeed "takes" material from other works, but said she didn't know she was supposed to credit her sources. She then asked her husband to get on the phone. Charles Edwards said the author got only "ideas" from other books and did not "lift passages."
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On the Net: http://us.penguingroup.com
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*snerk*
If you read the passages in question over at the blog/website that exposed it (http://www.smartbitchestrashybooks.com/index.php) it is painfully obvious that Cassie Edwards has "taken or lifted" passages and worked them into her stories, and not very well either.
Even if this isn't against the law (she changed some of the words around) it's morally dubious at best and rather pathetic for a published author to do so. And don't give me that crap about crediting sources, you've been taught better than that from Elementary School onwards. You don't have to do a full bibliography but come on, if you're relying on source material that much an author's note saying "Hey I read these books and they helped me get my details straight" wouldn't be too much to ask.
And if she wants to "tribute the beautiful first people of our land who have suffered so much injustice" there are a hell of a lot better ways to do so than by writing trashy bodice rippers and badly written ones at that, but that's just my two cents.
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This http://www.newsweek.com/id/94543 (http://www.newsweek.com/id/94543) was the one that really made me laugh. Talking about ferrets as pillow talk after sex. And, I'm not 100% positive, I think that even just switching around a few words still counts as plagiarism. The article link I posted, is pretty much almost word for word the same thing, the few words switched aren't enough to hide that.
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Well, when you're getting paid by the pound for cranking out bodice rippers for the romance market, I guess it's pretty easy to pad them out by cutting and pasting geographical descriptions, cultural exposition, and nature references, instead of just doing the research and writing it in your own words. I expect we'll be seeing a lot more of this kind of thing, as a younger generation of authors rises up, since so many of them got through college by doing this same sort of thing on their research papers. I think it's funny that doing a simple Google search on keywords was able to lead so directly to the original source material on line. Still, it's hard to argue with success, and as the article notes, she's got 10 million copies in print.
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mediabistro.com broke this story several months ago. At that point, it was the first book that was discovered to have 'lifted' whole paragraphs and descriptions from an approximate 1935 novel that had won awards--if this is the same author (?) it just seemed trashy. I had no idea she had so many novels in print. The original article did make me curious to take a look at some of her jacket covers next time I visited a book store. Bob would approve of the artwork at least.
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I'm taking a personal interest in this thread as I have borrowed a single idea from a non-fiction work for my own story (though not the actual wording -- I'm not that ignorant or ethically challenged) and have lately begun to wonder whether what I've done constitutes plagiarism.
So my question is: would one of the professional writers on board be willing to have me PM the two passages to him/her, tell me if it is in fact plagiarism, and offer some suggestions for fixing it if it is?
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Liz, just follow the link to the Newsweek article. The examples are right there, with passages from the book compared to direct passages from the ferret works. The author didn't just take ideas. She literally copy/pasted reference materials directly into her book as spoken conversation. Hilarity ensues when romance novel characters suddenly start to talk like encyclopedias. That's hawt.
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So my question is: would one of the professional writers on board be willing to have me PM the two passages to him/her, tell me if it is in fact plagiarism, and offer some suggestions for fixing it if it is?
Ideas aren't copyrightable, just the words. Themes and plots are used over and over again, for example "Young boy with unrecognized talents rises to become King of the land, with some supernatural aid" is a plot idea, and has been used with some success as the core of Jim Butcher's Codex Alera, E.B. White's The Sword In The Stone, and the Biblical stories of King David, among others.
Most genre Romance novels have, basically, the same plots, and the publishers generally supply guidelines to the authors so they don't deviate. Each writer is expected to generate their own characters and situations to flesh them out (so to speak), and the author in question here took a shortcut by wholesale borrowing of entire paragraphs written by other people.
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Most genre Romance novels, the publishers generally supply guidelines to the authors so they don't deviate. Each writer is expected to generate their own characters and situations to flesh them out (so to speak), and the author in question here took a shortcut by wholesale borrowing of entire paragraphs written by other people.
I've heard you talk about a book of 'plots' etc like this before and it really bugs me. This is the first time you've mentioned that publishers supply the plot. OOOWWWW, doesn't this bother anyone?
It's one thing to be handed a sequel type preplanned plot for a major franchise and asked to write it (Star Trek/Star Wars) and asked to wirte or rework a plot or novel into script or into graphic, but the idea this is frequent and typical for certain genres (is it?) really makes me uncomfortable. In fact, I'd love the chance to write television scripts to see what I could wring out of an actors performance and skill is exciting, but starting from ground zero with something?
NOT that it would be wrong---it's just that for me, it's personally wrong. Like pimping out the little talent I had or something. For a publisher to regulate an author's characters, plots, ideas--but only if they follow a pre-requested plot development--seems to fight with the author's creativity. Am I being naive? Anyone else have that kind of ---get me out of here type vibe to that concept?
i guess I'd feel bound up and I'm a very claustophobic person.
As I re-read this, I'm thinking---yeah but if they offered you a book contract and a start, I'd be first in line. Yuck, now I'm a whore... oh my, those slippery, slippery slopes.
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I've heard you talk about a book of 'plots' etc like this before and it really bugs me. This is the first time you've mentioned that publishers supply the plot. OOOWWWW, doesn't this bother anyone?
It's one thing to be handed a sequel type preplanned plot for a major franchise and asked to write it (Star Trek/Star Wars) and asked to wirte or rework a plot or novel into script or into graphic, but the idea this is frequent and typical for certain genres (is it?) really makes me uncomfortable.
It is. I have seen some romance-house requirements for authors, and they are drastically specific in all sorts of ways (as for example, no female leads in social positions where they could be the male lead's boss; strict rules about relative income levels, social positions, acceptable sexual histories for male and female leads - the particularly squicky bit there is that the limits on what they can have done seem to matter a sight less than the limits on what they can have enjoyed, because of having to find true fulfilment with each other and so on... )
NOT that it would be wrong---it's just that for me, it's personally wrong. Like pimping out the little talent I had or something. For a publisher to regulate an author's characters, plots, ideas--but only if they follow a pre-requested plot development--seems to fight with the author's creativity. Am I being naive? Anyone else have that kind of ---get me out of here type vibe to that concept?
Well, with my worldview I'm the last person to write something supporting romantic love anyway, as the conventional Western social model of it gives me hives. I'm not sure I could really enjoy writing for an ongoing TV series or spin-off novels thereof, though, just because of the limits involved in keeping it ongoing; a random Star Trek writer is unlikely to get away with killing a major character or doing anything else that has real consequences for the setting, and the rules for what's acceptable in Star Trek spin-off novels twice got tightened when John M. Ford submitted books that stretched their comfort zone. ( The Final Reflection is a "historical" novel set among Klingons with some of the OS Trek characters in as babies; How Much for Just the Planet? is an unabashed Star Trek musical comedy. Both worth reading even if you're not generally a Trek fan, very much because of the ways they are not Trek novels.) I'm kind of attached to things having consequences, in my fiction.
i guess I'd feel bound up and I'm a very claustophobic person.
As I re-read this, I'm thinking---yeah but if they offered you a book contract and a start, I'd be first in line. Yuck, now I'm a whore... oh my, those slippery, slippery slopes.
Yes, it's hard to say whether one would sell out when nobody's actually buying.
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Ideas aren't copyrightable, just the words.
I'm aware of this, but am concerned since in my case the "idea" is rather a specific one: In Irwin Blye's Secrets of a Private Eye, a kind of manual on the methodology of private detectives, he mentions in passing a female client who insisted upon his wearing a trench coat whenever they met, even though this was not standard practice for him.
In my story, a female client insists upon the detective doing the same thing and there is a lengthy dialogue on the subject. Should I ever get this project to a point where I would consider submitting it, would I be advised to credit Blye's book, or alternately, provide a selected bibliography? (Or would it just be safer to cut the passage altogether? I hope not, since I think it's a pretty funny idea, myself.)
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It sounds like you would have a concern. i'd cut it. Or you could query the author to see if /she minds a nod or reference to his/her work. In the meantime, it doesn't sound like you are going to forget it's in there. If someone does opt on it, you could safely query your agent or your editor or your publisher.
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It sounds like you would have a concern. i'd cut it. Or you could query the author to see if /she minds a nod or reference to his/her work. In the meantime, it doesn't sound like you are going to forget it's in there. If someone does opt on it, you could safely query your agent or your editor or your publisher.
Thanks for the input! So in your opinion, it would be plagiarism? As I mentioned, I'm aware that one cannot copyright ideas, but does this apply to specific incidents as well?
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The plot summaries I mentioned is called Masterplots, which contains summaries of plots in literature in books, plays, and poems from all eras, organized and indexed by author, time period, type of plot, locale, characters, etc. It's a useful reference tool, and a mine for ideas to stimulate your own imagination in developing plots of your own. Most major libraries and universities have a set of Masterplots in the reference section.
All publishers have writer's guidelines of some sort, just so writers will know what kinds of things they're looking for. Publishers of genre fiction like Romance are more specific a lot of times, because they know what their target audience buys, and they don't want new authors of cookbooks of home repair manuals sending in submissions. Here's an example:
Writing Guidelines
Mills & Boon Historical Romance
Length: 75,000 – 90,000 words
Senior Editor: Linda Fildew
Editorial Office: London
This series covers a wide range of British and European historical periods from ancient civilizations (e.g. Greece, Rome) up to and including the Second World War.
The books should be historically accurate, sweeping the reader into the dramas, passions and intrigues of that particular chosen time. Against this authentic backdrop, the developing romance should be the main driving force of the story. Actual historical figures can appear, but the hero and heroine are nearly always fictitious. The level of sensuality can vary, dependent on the mood of each individual story. A query letter with a synopsis and first three chapters are advised.
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So in your opinion, it would be plagiarism?
I know just enough about law that I'm saying---"I think that you think it might be." That is enough to make it so. If I were a lawyer, I would NOT want to put you on the stand. Is that lawyerly and oily enough for you? I'm saying, until you try to publish it, I don't think it's an issue and can be addressed at that point, but it would be much easier to cut out the reference and sleep well at night, wouldn't it? Does that make sense?
If you simply can't let it go because it's such a fun reference, then cut it and put it somewhere that you can think about it later when you can have the advice of an agent or an editor or a publishing house.
Yeratel, guidelines, I'm familiar with. I think that Masterplots would be an interesting reference just for it's historic value and as a plot stimulator. I'll check it out at the library but I was definitely picturing something else in my mind!
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Thanks for the input! So in your opinion, it would be plagiarism? As I mentioned, I'm aware that one cannot copyright ideas, but does this apply to specific incidents as well?
It doesn't sound like plagiarism to me, unless you lift a whole passage from another book about a woman with a Sam Spade fixation.
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I've just been looking over copyright and plagiarism law, and from what I can tell, what I've done is and isn't plagiarism. In other words, there's a huge grey area. As far as I can tell, if I credit Mr Blye in some way, I'm OK (the whole thing being hypothetical at this point, as I'm only on Chapter 5 of a projected 21 chapters of my Magnum Opus.) Thanks for all the discussion this has generated!
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Mr. Blye and others. Remember, if you rip off more than 20 sources it's "research".
Maybe this could get you started:
http://sherlock-holmes.classic-literature.co.uk/the-adventure-of-the-copper-beeches/
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It seems to me that a detective in a trenchcoat has been around long enough to become a stereotype. It didn't originate with Mr. Bly, either. Put your own original spin on it, and just consider it an homage to the history of the Hard Boiled Dick.
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*applauding Yeratel*
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It seems to me that a detective in a trenchcoat has been around long enough to become a stereotype. It didn't originate with Mr. Bly, either. Put your own original spin on it, and just consider it an homage to the history of the Hard Boiled Dick.
I agree.
The word we may be looking for here is "trope".
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The word we may be looking for here is "trope".
For "Hard Boiled Dick", in the sense used, I'm pretty sure stereotype is what I meant. If you're thinking a detective in a trenchcoat is a trite and overused cliche, then in that sense "trope" may be appropriate. When writing for a general audience, I refrain from whipping out my William F. Buckley Vocabulary, anyway. :)
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Ahh but I miss his pithy commentary
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For "Hard Boiled Dick", in the sense used, I'm pretty sure stereotype is what I meant. If you're thinking a detective in a trenchcoat is a trite and overused cliche, then in that sense "trope" may be appropriate. When writing for a general audience, I refrain from whipping out my William F. Buckley Vocabulary, anyway. :)
How about "stereotrope"?
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How about "stereotrope"?
If you stare at it long enough a Private Dick pops out?
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If you stare at it long enough a Private Dick pops out?
Like in those "Magic Eye" posters. :D
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I see a best seller in the making. Forget the stupid polar bears and rainbows. let's get to the good stuff!
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I'm ... concerned since in my case the "idea" is rather a specific one: In Irwin Blye's Secrets of a Private Eye, a kind of manual on the methodology of private detectives, he mentions in passing a female client who insisted upon his wearing a trench coat whenever they met, even though this was not standard practice for him.
You're fine. Generally, two types of borrowing constitute plagiarism:
1. Uncited direct quotations (including those that have had a word or two switched around)
2. Sequences of ideas supporting a point
#2 is applicable to nonfiction. It essentially means that you can't go look at someone's journal article, copy his logic, and write a book on the same topic using the same argument without citing him. Endlessly derivative plots in fiction are fine. If I were you, I would write a preface acknowledging any significant influences, but I wouldn't worry about unintentional plagiarism unless you find yourself accidentally copying the actual text of someone else's work. (It is possible to do this from memory. I've caught myself accidentally doing it in papers on a couple of occasions. Luckily, I noticed in time and was able to put in citations.)
If you want a readable guide to plagiarism, take a look at academic honesty codes. Most universities have lots of webspace devoted to the subject. A real case on a relevant topic is the controversy over Frozen and Dorothy Lewis. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frozen_(play) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frozen_(play))) Notice that Frozen borrows much more from Lewis' work and real life than your one puny little idea. The references were of a type where people other than Lewis and the playwright were able to easily recognize their source--yours isn't.
Also remember that plagiarism and copyright infringement are totally different concepts. An act can easily be one or the other or both. You cannot copyright ideas, but ideas are often plagiarised. You are not plagiarising if you cite, but you may be using more text than you're allowed under fair use, which would mean you're violating someone's copyright.
The bottom line: you are borrowing a single real event for a work of fiction. It's not plagiarism, it's not copyright infringement, and it's not the type of thing Blye would be able to sue you for emotional damages over. Stop worrying.