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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Snark Knight on January 16, 2026, 01:57:47 PM
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So my local store let me pick up my preordered copy of Twelve Months when it came in this week, instead of the official release day.
I noticed something odd in an early chapter - on the way out of Harry and Lara's first date, she asks why he's avoidant of eye contact, and he explains soulgazes like it's her first time hearing about that.
But Carlos already did one with her, to scare himself out of attraction to her, back in White Night. And she seemed to know exactly what he was doing, telling him it wasn't going to scare her off. That seems like a miss for the betas not to have raised ... might this be another deliberate hint of something hinky going on with the continuity?
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Good catch. I didn't remember that incident, but I was a bit perplexed in reading the preview that Lara had never heard of a Wizard's ability to soulgaze.
Maybe it was awkwardly done to inform new readers and foreshadow their upcoming soulgaze. Maybe this time, we'll get some info on what Lara (or maybe Fitz) sees when soulgazing with Harry.
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Good catch. I didn't remember that incident, but I was a bit perplexed in reading the preview that Lara had never heard of a Wizard's ability to soulgaze.
Maybe it was awkwardly done to inform new readers and foreshadow their upcoming soulgaze. Maybe this time, we'll get some info on what Lara (or maybe Fitz) sees when soulgazing with Harry.
Very odd, also one has to wonder about Margaret, did she avoid soul gazing Lord Raith? Or did she not avoid it, and was so alienated by the White Council she didn't care what he was or what he had done? At least until she met Malcolm. However Lara has been around the block a few times, so it does seem implausable that she had no clue about soul gazes. Was she totally ignorant of the soul gaze between Harry and Thomas?
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... Maybe it was awkwardly done to inform new readers ...
This, I think.
Jim usually includes some new-to-Dresden exposition in every book, and this seems like an example.
I read the Amazon early-release chapters, don't have book in hand yet. But I kinda-sorta thought Lara was trying to elicit Harry to talk more, in hopes of gaining more insight.
Insight about Harry.
Insight about Soulgazes in general: her just knowing they exist, 'gazing on Carlos... these hardly make her an expert!
Also, plenty of people will play the "novice" card -- when they aren't -- for a plethora of reasons.
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This, I think.
Jim usually includes some new-to-Dresden exposition in every book, and this seems like an example.
I read the Amazon early-release chapters, don't have book in hand yet. But I kinda-sorta thought Lara was trying to elicit Harry to talk more, in hopes of gaining more insight.
Insight about Harry.
Insight about Soulgazes in general: her just knowing they exist, 'gazing on Carlos... these hardly make her an expert!
Also, plenty of people will play the "novice" card -- when they aren't -- for a plethora of reasons.
Or she is trying to stall. Since it was mentioned in an earlier book that Carlos soul gazed her and his reaction, no matter what it was. Though it sounds negative, he must have mentioned it to Harry. No, it doesn't make her an expert, but she may be afraid of what Harry might find out about her, or what she might find out about Harry. Is a soul gaze even possible with a full vampire? Does Lara have a soul to gaze, or is she like a full blooded Fae,no soul so no soul gaze possible? What is important here is context, I find it hard to believe that Lara doesn't know about soul gazes, or even more implausible hadn't heard of them, so what is she playing at? Does she want one, or does she not want one? And either way, what are her motives?
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Is a soul gaze even possible with a full vampire? Does Lara have a soul to gaze, or is she like a full blooded Fae,no soul so no soul gaze possible?
Thomas was fully activated as a vampire when Harry soulgazed him in Blood Rites. His species status is the same as Lara's.
So it works with WCV ... but I'd guess it would be worse with Lara since she's in harmony with her demon, compared to Thomas restrainig his.
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Thomas was fully activated as a vampire when Harry soulgazed him in Blood Rites. His species status is the same as Lara's.
So it works with WCV ... but I'd guess it would be worse with Lara since she's in harmony with her demon, compared to Thomas restrainig his.
Not really in my opinion. 1] Their mother set it up, so that might affect it. 2] In the soul gaze a lot of human Thomas remained, remember the mirror image struggle between the very weak human with glasses verses Thomas the vampire with the Hunger in control.
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Carlos 'gazed Lara.
I presume Harry could, too.
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Carlos 'gazed Lara.
I presume Harry could, too.
Which means that Lara is lying to Harry if she does claim to be ignorant about soul gazes, not the best way to start a relationship.
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I have a feeling a few key beta readers have left in the last few years the ones who really pick up on tiny things.
I remember the good old days of these old forums and Jim and prescille and so many close to Jim were active here. There was a trust in Jim’s writing, everything felt so deliberate and thorough. And while the story is still very strong (12M is a favourite) I can’t help but think the tightness of the writing since PT is gone. It’s small things but then again Justine being on the island in cold days but it being the entire plot point for battle ground and the Jim claiming in an interview actually she wants nfected then.. it could get really plot holish and messy if they don’t tighten things up and pronto. More is at stake.
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I have a feeling a few key beta readers have left in the last few years the ones who really pick up on tiny things.
I remember the good old days of these old forums and Jim and prescille and so many close to Jim were active here. There was a trust in Jim’s writing, everything felt so deliberate and thorough. And while the story is still very strong (12M is a favourite) I can’t help but think the tightness of the writing since PT is gone. It’s small things but then again Justine being on the island in cold days but it being the entire plot point for battle ground and the Jim claiming in an interview actually she wants nfected then.. it could get really plot holish and messy if they don’t tighten things up and pronto. More is at stake.
I think this is a problem generally with series that a) have more than a dozen books and/or b) have large gaps between publication dates. Then there's the fatal flaw of doing a "untold story from earlier" book, which Jim has avoided doing ... so far.
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Jim usually includes some new-to-Dresden exposition in every book, and this seems like an example....
This is about the only thing I dislike about the Dresden files books. After the first 6 books explained the "Blue Beetle" to us over and over and over I was like "Yeah Jim, I already freakin know this....." If someone starts reading a book series at the end they deserve to be lost and not clued into the small details..
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This is about the only thing I dislike about the Dresden files books. After the first 6 books explained the "Blue Beetle" to us over and over and over I was like "Yeah Jim, I already freakin know this....." If someone starts reading a book series at the end they deserve to be lost and not clued into the small details..
That's what I call "filler," but at least we know the story behind the Blue Beetle and finally that plot thread was resolved. What pisses me off is the dozens of other plot threads that have been left dangling.
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This is about the only thing I dislike about the Dresden files books. After the first 6 books explained the "Blue Beetle" to us over and over and over I was like "Yeah Jim, I already freakin know this....." If someone starts reading a book series at the end they deserve to be lost and not clued into the small details..
It's funny. In the first book of a series the author is enjoined not to make a lot of digressions to explain characters and situations as distracting from the action and anyway the mystery builds engagement and suspense. In later books you get the main character asked a question on page 2 which causes him/her to consider the appearance and previous interactions with multiple people for four pages (to inform new readers what longtime readers already know) and then a reply of "no" when the reader has forgotten what the question was.
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That's what I call "filler," but at least we know the story behind the Blue Beetle and finally that plot thread was resolved. What pisses me off is the dozens of other plot threads that have been left dangling.
Surly these will be resolved though
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... Then there's the fatal flaw of doing a "untold story from earlier" book, which Jim has avoided doing ... so far.
Jim does this with many of his shorts.
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This is about the only thing I dislike about the Dresden files books. After the first 6 books explained the "Blue Beetle" to us over and over and over I was like "Yeah Jim, I already freakin know this....." If someone starts reading a book series at the end they deserve to be lost and not clued into the small details..
I think the conventional wisdom is that writers of long series should do this; it's not unique to the DF, there's lots of longer series that recap old info for new readers.
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I have a feeling a few key beta readers have left in the last few years the ones who really pick up on tiny things.
I think that might be the case. I noticed a scene in the lab in 12M described the summoning circle as fire-ruined copper. There were a couple of upgrades to the circle in previous books ... IIRC by Changes it was some complex mix of metals that he'd had to subcontract the svartalves to make.
Reverting that doesn't seem like a clue, it just seems like he's shorthanded on betas with a memory for details. Or else they themselves are also in the same trap of seeing so many drafts that they forget the published one.
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I have a feeling a few key beta readers have left in the last few years the ones who really pick up on tiny things.
I remember the good old days of these old forums and Jim and prescille and so many close to Jim were active here. There was a trust in Jim’s writing, everything felt so deliberate and thorough. And while the story is still very strong (12M is a favourite) I can’t help but think the tightness of the writing since PT is gone. It’s small things but then again Justine being on the island in cold days but it being the entire plot point for battle ground and the Jim claiming in an interview actually she wants nfected then.. it could get really plot holish and messy if they don’t tighten things up and pronto. More is at stake.
Um, question. Did you have another account before? Because the times when Jim were here where long gone (I think since I came here I only saw him posting once or twice) but you only have 25 posts?
Back on track. Yes. This topic irritated me a lot. I have a mild explanation in universe. Lara simply did not know the name of what she and Ramirez did. He knew there was a wizard thing, but she did not knew the name. So when Harry asked her if she knew of soulgazes, she was not sure. That could work but then Lara should have added a line, something like "ah, that was what we did". But the problem is that, unless I am misremembering, Harry was a witness of that soulgaze. So he should not have asked Lara if he knew what a soulgaze was, because he knew she knew. I know Harry is not in his right mind most of the book but that is important. Gosh, I would be glad if they make a revised version of the book with a modification in that dialogue. It has been done before.
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Sorry, still don't buy it, Lara is a powerful member of an influential vampire family and is over a hundred years old. Lara isn't a stupid woman, I doubt that she'd be ignorant about a lot of stuff about wizards and what they do.
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Sorry, still don't buy it, Lara is a powerful member of an influential vampire family and is over a hundred years old. Lara isn't a stupid woman, I doubt that she'd be ignorant about a lot of stuff about wizards and what they do.
She's between 200 and 300 years old, and even if she was under her father influence, she was still supposed to be smart and cunning, manipulative, etc. Dresden keeps saying that, all the way through Twelve Months. It makes no sense that she doesn't know. Unless, she's playing "damsel" to appeal to Harry.
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As I said, Harry shouldn't even have to ask. He saw Lara and Ramirez.
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Gosh, I would be glad if they make a revised version of the book with a modification in that dialogue.
I've considered going into ebooks and editing them before. I have edited title meta data so the Dresden Files books and short stories are in my preferred reading order.
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I've considered going into ebooks and editing them before. I have edited title meta data so the Dresden Files books and short stories are in my preferred reading order.
Interesting.
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Interesting.
If the old saying that "consistency is the Hop goblet of a small mind," then I have a small mind. That stuff drives me crazy.
I definitely wouldn't go in and change everything before the end of the series though. Because what if Jim is actually doing something with all of the inconsistencies?
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If the old saying that "consistency is the Hop goblet of a small mind," then I have a small mind. That stuff drives me crazy.
I definitely wouldn't go in and change everything before the end of the series though. Because what if Jim is actually doing something with all of the inconsistencies?
Yes, I've mean they should officially change it, like when in some editions of Storm Front Bianca's girl had a different name (one was Paula, I forgot the other one). And that would only happen if it is a true mistake. In this case it is, because it is not like the metal of his summoning ring. It is something important for both of them, and soulgazes are something you do not forget. I don't know, the only explanation I could think was Lara not knowing the name "soulgaze" and Harry not being in a good mental state.
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Or some intentional continuity errors because of some multiverse or time travel plot element. I don't really see that, but a lot of people think so.
Another error I saw was Dresden's gargoyles chased Molly's fae delivery men in "Good People," if I'm remembering Molly's short story that goes along with "Christmas Eve."
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Yes, I've reread both stories yesterday, and yes. Also, Molly gave lots of people gifts "from the wizard of Chicago". At least one of them could have said thank you, but not, there were angry mobs. Harry really needs better PR. Perhaps Paranoid Harry and some paranetters should be on the job, spreading the word that supernatural is going to be, you like it or not, and it is better to have some supernatural good guys to defend people. Harry had been doing all his best, I want he is recognized and thanked for someone beyond Matias.
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Yes, I've reread both stories yesterday, and yes. Also, Molly gave lots of people gifts "from the wizard of Chicago". At least one of them could have said thank you, but not, there were angry mobs. Harry really needs better PR. Perhaps Paranoid Harry and some paranetters should be on the job, spreading the word that supernatural is going to be, you like it or not, and it is better to have some supernatural good guys to defend people. Harry had been doing all his best, I want he is recognized and thanked for someone beyond Matias.
In fairness, the gifts were anonymous, they don't know that Harry was behind it. For all of that the people continue to suffer because all the joys and comfort of their modern lives have been pulled out from under them and they want it back last week, with interest! That kind of suffering knows no patience, also they now know that the supernatural world was behind their suffering and who has been the loan openly supernatural guy in their world the last twenty years? Harry Dresden P.I. and wizard, you can find him in the Yellow Pages, Harry said it himself.. So yeah, that makes him the goat, and the target of their ire..
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The gifts were from "the Wizard of Chicago". And yes, I understand and that is why I said better PR are needed. The citizens should learn that the supernatural has come to stay and it is better to treasure those who know how to fight it.
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Or some intentional continuity errors because of some multiverse or time travel plot element. I don't really see that, but a lot of people think so.
There's a WOJ about a very small number of continuity changes being a Hint towards something. In a lot of cases though, it does come down to he forgets which version of some previous book was a draft and which got published.
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There's a WOJ about a very small number of continuity changes being a Hint towards something. In a lot of cases though, it does come down to he forgets which version of some previous book was a draft and which got published.
I don't recall that one.
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I think Lara only has something to win by saying no every time Harry asks if she knows something about magic. Then she gets to learn by having him explain it and maybe some day have an edge because Harry thinks she has no knowledge of magic when actually she has some.
I cannot see what she has to win by saying yes, she knows.
I think it is understandable that Harry forgot with the state he is in.
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I think it is understandable that Harry forgot with the state he is in.
Perhaps; but can she be sure of his state?
Lara, after all: was also present!
So she knows that Harry knows, somewhere inside.
As he "comes back to himself," she must realize that Harry's going to recognize that she has been "playing dumb" (if that's what was going on).
(of course, now that Harry has "turned the tables," that may not matter so much)
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The continuity here definitely bothered me, but I can see how it can be argued that she was playing Harry.
The main problem I had was that the soul gaze itself was a bit anticlimactic. The description of it was cool, but it seemed like in this Soul Gaze they both shared the same vision? Or maybe I misread it. And then it seemed like she didn't really have that much of a reaction (unless I totally missed it).
I was expecting a payoff from him saying bad A his previous reactions had been.
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Lara's reaction:
“Empty night,” she breathed, panting. “Oh, empty night.”
It took me a minute to recover from the intensity of the experience. Finally, I got my breathing under control and looked up at her.
Lara was just staring at me. We both lowered our hands. She began to slowly shake her head.
“You’re unlike anyone I’ve met,” she said quietly. “And I’ve met a great many.”
I'd say it's a fairly strong reaction. My favorite reaction to someone soul gazing Harry is still Denton declaring he doesn't believe in Hell.
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I had a different take on the soulgaze between Harry and Lara. After long consideration, I think two things happened and neither of them is a continuity error. This isn’t a defense of Jim’s writing in Twelve Months, just my subjective analysis of it.
First and most obvious, I think Lara never having soulgazed Carlos Ramirez or any other wizard is just one more example of the Dresden Files taking place in a multiverse. Just like we have read about the Better Future Society and the Brighter Future Society and Bianca having a girlfriend / vampire saliva addicted slave with different names.
The idea of a multiverse is hardly new. According to whatever A.I. I was using, the first use of a multiverse in fiction goes all the way back to a short story published in Astounding Fiction in 1934. Unfortunately for Jim, Marvel has made some truly half-assed use of the multiverse concept in their movies and TV shows in the past decade, making the idea of a multiverse seem rather lame for many people. I’m hoping that Mirror Mirror will put Jim’s use of the multiverse to bed so we don’t have to see Jim use it again.
This brings me to the second thing I believe I have detected. However, this is completely subjective on my part. I admit I could be wrong about this. About eight or nine years ago, I saw Jim at a Con; I’ve seen him a couple of times, and he said something about wanting to make his writing more compact and being to tell stories in a more efficient manner. Clearly this didn’t happen in Peace Talks and Battle Ground, seeing as Jim originally wanted the entire story he told there to be a single novel. He has been far more successful in Twelve Months. If we ignore Peace Talks and Battle Ground, because originally they were supposed to make up a single novel, the word count for Twelve Months is the lowest Jim has used since Turn Coat was released and Turn Count is only about 6,700 words shorter than Twelve Months.
To make his writing more compact I think Jim is; sometimes, becoming more sparse or Spartan with his use of dialogue, trying to convey what he wants with as few words as possible. There are times when he simply can’t do this. For example, if Harry and Mab are having a conversation / debate about something, the nature of the relationship Jim has set up with those two characters and the complex counter-arguments Mab may use to support her case, sparse use of language may be difficult to impossible to achieve, but is more achievable with other characters.
So in Twelve Months, when Harry asks Lara, “Do you know what a soulgaze is? Lara replies, “What little you’ve said. I’ve…I’ve read descriptions of them.” That is an example of sparse language to make a point. It’s enough to tell me we are in one universe of the multiverse where Lara never had a soulgaze with Ramirez, but at the same time, as dialogue between these two specific characters it feels a bit weak to me. Worse, it makes Lara seem ignorant and weaker than she should be. When I say Lara’s seems weaker, I mean less like the intelligent and competent leader of the White Court Lara is supposed to be.
As I said above, this is just my interpretation of what Jim is doing as a writer today compared to how he wrote the older novels in the series. I strongly suspect that if this conversation had taken place in Blood Rites or White Night; prior to Carlos and Lara’s soulgaze, I think Lara’s answer would have been more complete. Maybe something like this: “Of course Dresden, the White Court keeps extensive intelligence files on wizard capabilities. However, while I’ve read descriptions of what a soulgaze is, I’ve never experienced one and to my knowledge no one else in the White Court has either. I suppose this is one area where my knowledge may be less than adequate.”
This way Lara would have continued to be the highly competent character we met in the earlier novels and less the; damsel in distress is an exaggeration, watered down version of Lara we got here. I think there is no way; even in a part of the multiverse were she didn’t have a soulgaze with Carlos Ramirez, that Lara didn’t read an intel report about wizard soulgazing ability. It should have been explicitly stated.
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@Kurtin: Yeah, Lara definitely had to have known more than she appeared to in this book. Even Marcone in Storm Front knew what a soul gaze was.
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Lara's reaction:
I'd say it's a fairly strong reaction. My favorite reaction to someone soul gazing Harry is still Denton declaring he doesn't believe in Hell.
Speaking of reactions. Can someone remind me the reaction of Parker, the streetwolf, please? He was the one seeing He Who Walks Behind?
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"Parker's face was stunned. ... I recovered from it before he did."
Not much in there about it.
I didn't like the soulgazes in 12 Months. I feel like they are normally more impactful and tell us more about the character. Bear and Lara's soulgazes basically tell us she's a Valkyrie, she's a White Court vampire. Lara's tells us a little more than that, but not much.
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I don't think the multiverse term should be used, because in my opinion it can too easily become a crutch for sloppy writing. Yes, it does have it's place in a story or series, but it can also be a slippery slope in a series.
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"Parker's face was stunned. ... I recovered from it before he did."
Not much in there about it.
I didn't like the soulgazes in 12 Months. I feel like they are normally more impactful and tell us more about the character. Bear and Lara's soulgazes basically tell us she's a Valkyrie, she's a White Court vampire. Lara's tells us a little more than that, but not much.
Thank you! Damn, I really wants to see what people sees soulgazing Harry or at least I want someone telling what they saw.
About the soulgazes in TM. I am ok with the Bear one, it is more or less what I would expect and confirm that she is not Murphy and that she is the real deal. But the Lara one was weird, with all the dialogue, I don't know. That dialogue would be in their memories for ever and that could be a lot of time.
Edited: I regret that we did not see any Bear reaction, especially because the soulgaze was done in a terrible moment, when Harry was not only grieving but misfiring and hungover. I wonder if that had any effect on what Bear saw. I wish they had talk about the soulgaze later.
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Jim had strongly hinted that we would see a soulgaze in Mirror Mirror between Harry and iHarry. You could take what Jim said to also imply it will cause him to talk to other people about what they saw when they gazed him.
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I think you guys are reading too much into the words and not enough into the scene. Laura is used to everyone in the room just flat out staring at her and here she is on an official date that she knows is being watched by multiple people and he won’t even look her in the face. She also knows for her to be respected by the whites she needs to clearly be the “dominant” one in the relationship, but she also knows Harry well enough that if she just flexes her mojo it will not play out well. So, what does she do? She plays the shy but observant girl asking a deeper question than he is used to similar to the way Lash approached him. She does this for a couple of reasons. First, she wants to soul gaze with Harry because she feels that she got more from Carlos than he got from her. Second, she wants to see if Harry is put together enough to call her out for her bull shit. She sets up a future where the way forward is the gaze but seems like she respects his need for time while getting a temp for how observant he is currently. Regular hot girls can lie and be manipulative and she is the queen of the whites. I assume everything she says true or not is to get something she wants. And Jim can be writing it like that for all those reasons and as a way to explain it to the newbies
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It is an interesting idea that Lara is testing Harry's mental state. Instead of saying "are you daft? Of course I know what a soulgaze is, you saw me and that warden sharing one", she is playing around.
I don't know, it is a scene that does complicate things, because we readers are not sure if it is an honest mistake that beta readers did not caught, or if it is something that really should happen in universe.
Jim had strongly hinted that we would see a soulgaze in Mirror Mirror between Harry and iHarry. You could take what Jim said to also imply it will cause him to talk to other people about what they saw when they gazed him.
I don't see that implication. We are probably going to see what Harry sees in the other Harry, but that is not what people see in our Harry.
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Honestly my questions about what people see when they soul gaze Harry all are around why members of the Sr council haven't done it. When Harry had to watch that kid get his cut off I thought merlin said that both him and Morgan soul gazed him. Why did no one do it at Harry's trial especially Morgan and if they did why didn't it change their opinion of him. Has what people see changed? Susan fainted but that cop in battle ground acted like Harry wasn't there to hurt him but he didn't want to be in the same state as him not thank God he is pointed at the monsters. And most of all what did the kraken see and why doesn't Harry brag about it making it flinch
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I don't think Harry would brag about that because it was a horrible experience. And about the rest...I think soulgazes are dangerous. You live all your life with the memory of something potentially horrible. And the Senior Council knows things about Harry (starborn, at the very least) that made them mistrust him. I do not think they want to risk soulgazing Harry. But perhaps is also because if they see nothing wrong and had to release Harry of any charge, Harry would know them very well, and that could be dangerous for them too. I mean, good or evil, Harry is dangerous and not someone to mess with, and he is now bound to obey Mab's word and (from the Council POV) perhaps even in a thrall by a white vampire or two. You don't want a person in that condition to know you intimately. At least, that is my take on the topic.
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I don't see that implication. We are probably going to see what Harry sees in the other Harry, but that is not what people see in our Harry.
At the book tour event I went to people asked about when/if Jim will show us what people see when Harry soulgazes them. I didn't listen to it, so this is the AI transcription.
it's going to be very, very hard to do that, unless Dresden goes and talks to people about it.
Can you have a little bit more emotional intelligence too? Have to clean all that off, uh. The only way it might happen is if you somehow. Uh, manages to to, you know, meet some sort of clone of himself. Which brings us to the next book Mirror Mirror.
Somewhere later he says something that important can't happen in a short story, so we won't get it from another character's point of view.
On Harry being soulgazed as part of his trial, Eb does say that Harry gazed Morgan. It's in the early part of their first conversation in Turn Coat before Eb figures out what Harry is up to.
“If he did it.” I shook my head. “I just keep asking myself who profits most if we axe Morgan ourselves.”
Ebenezar grimaced. “It’s ugly all the way around,” he said, “but there it is. I reckon you ’gazed him, Hoss, but it ain’t a lie detector. You know that, too.”
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The continuity here definitely bothered me, but I can see how it can be argued that she was playing Harry.
The main problem I had was that the soul gaze itself was a bit anticlimactic. The description of it was cool, but it seemed like in this Soul Gaze they both shared the same vision? Or maybe I misread it. And then it seemed like she didn't really have that much of a reaction (unless I totally missed it).
I was expecting a payoff from him saying bad A his previous reactions had been.
Lara seeming not to know what a soul gaze is leads to so many questions.
1) how open are wizards to telling people what it is? Is it public knowledge
2) and how much information is out there about it?
3) how accurate is the information? Do the wizards tell people they can't control what one sees and how it is triggered.
Lara should know what a soul gaze is. She experienced one. From a dolist reason Jim wanted to reintroduce the concept. From a watsonian reason Lara wanted more info about them