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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Lord Kinbote on November 07, 2025, 03:08:04 AM
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The "When's the Next Book?!!" slider for Twelve Months has been REPLACED by a slider for Mirror Mirror. Wholly unexpected by me, notwithstanding his public pronouncement that he wants to be done with Mirror Mirror before the promo tour for Twelve Months.
As of this posting, it rests at 14%.
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Don't think he has a choice, because his readers have anticipated this book for years now. I don't think we would stand for a three or four year wait after Twelve Months for it.
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Also, in a recent video, his wife needs him to finish it before the new year I believe, over a comment or discussion with a redditor?
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Also, in a recent video, his wife needs him to finish it before the new year I believe, over a comment or discussion with a redditor?
IIRC, she got annoyed with some cynical/sarcastic online commentator who was going on about the pace of Jim's writing / likelihood of a multi-year completion, so she said firmly that he'd be done this year... and now is urging him not to make her wrong.
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IIRC, she got annoyed with some cynical/sarcastic online commentator who was going on about the pace of Jim's writing / likelihood of a multi-year completion, so she said firmly that he'd be done this year... and now is urging him not to make her wrong.
Hope it doesn't screw up the quality of the book, these things tend to go at their own time. But then again it might mean I will be able to finish the series before I die... ::)
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Hope it doesn't screw up the quality of the book, these things tend to go at their own time. But then again it might mean I will be able to finish the series before I die... ::)
It's the first time, I think, that Jim has been partnered in his life with another published author. I suspect she'll have more experience of what an author actually needs, and be more-able to support him. OTOH -- being a working author herself -- there's also some potential for her to draw off some of Jim's "writing mind" to support her.
I suspect we won't actually know how the time-and-attention flow works for Jim until we see several novels' output & timing (it may take that long for them to settle into their "new normal"): will he be on-pace for his prior best production rate?
I don't think we can hope for "novel-per-year," because these latest volumes are chonkier than the ones he was writing at that place (not counting first 3;(SF/FM/GP all published 2001, presumably because he was grinding away at writing while the first one was moving slowly through the agent/editor queue (as per an unproven author) rather than being given "nearly guaranteed NYT besteller" treatment/priority)... but the next ELEVEN novels were one per year(!) ... then blipping up to 1.5 years for SG; so 18 months per novel is my hope; but (alternating with Cinder Spires) that would be THREE years between DF novels :_(
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It's the first time, I think, that Jim has been partnered in his life with another published author.
IIRC, Butcher's first wife was a published author of romance novels.
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It's the first time, I think, that Jim has been partnered in his life with another published author. I suspect she'll have more experience of what an author actually needs, and be more-able to support him. OTOH -- being a working author herself -- there's also some potential for her to draw off some of Jim's "writing mind" to support her.
I suspect we won't actually know how the time-and-attention flow works for Jim until we see several novels' output & timing (it may take that long for them to settle into their "new normal"): will he be on-pace for his prior best production rate?
I don't think we can hope for "novel-per-year," because these latest volumes are chonkier than the ones he was writing at that place (not counting first 3;(SF/FM/GP all published 2001, presumably because he was grinding away at writing while the first one was moving slowly through the agent/editor queue (as per an unproven author) rather than being given "nearly guaranteed NYT besteller" treatment/priority)... but the next ELEVEN novels were one per year(!) ... then blipping up to 1.5 years for SG; so 18 months per novel is my hope; but (alternating with Cinder Spires) that would be THREE years between DF novels :_(
In fact it is not. I feel like we should avoid speculating on how JB’s personal relationships affect his writing timeline, beyond specific comments from the man himself.
Also for a while JB was releasing two books, a Dresden Files and a Codex Alera, every year.
Regardless, I’m incredibly excited both for Twelve Months and Mirror Mirror. I can’t even remember when Jim started talking about Mirror Mirror at this point. Was it before Changes?
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I don't think we can hope for "novel-per-year," because these latest volumes are chonkier than the ones he was writing at that place (not counting first 3;(SF/FM/GP all published 2001, presumably because he was grinding away at writing while the first one was moving slowly through the agent/editor queue (as per an unproven author) rather than being given "nearly guaranteed NYT besteller" treatment/priority)... but the next ELEVEN novels were one per year(!) ... then blipping up to 1.5 years for SG; so 18 months per novel is my hope; but (alternating with Cinder Spires) that would be THREE years between DF novels :_(
She may help him keep on track, as in finish one series before he starts writing the next. Though yes, many have enjoyed the other series that Jim has written during the past twenty years, part of the reason for the lags as long as five years between Dresden File books is he was writing other series, and in some cases more than one.
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... keep on track, as in finish one series before he starts writing the next ...
Jim has said that he often uses one series as a "break" from the other series; by the time he's finished one of the DF novels, he's kind of sick of writing Harry. But if he writes in another universe, he comes back to the DF enthusiastic about it.
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Jim has said that he often uses one series as a "break" from the other series; by the time he's finished one of the DF novels, he's kind of sick of writing Harry. But if he writes in another universe, he comes back to the DF enthusiastic about it.
I can see that, however five years between books in a series that is over twenty books long is unfair to fans. Maybe more isn't better? Edit the number of books and finish the series sooner.
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... Maybe more isn't better? Edit the number of books and finish the series sooner.
Given that BG was # 16 +1, taking the original 20vol series to 21...
and 12M is #18, taking it to 22...
I don't think Jim in heading in the direction you have suggested!
:o
He went 15 novels without adding any "extras" and now we've had TWO. There are 4 more to go before the BAT and I won't be surprised if there's another extra in there... ::)
It's gonna be so tragic for so many folks when it all finally wraps up after the BAT!
Whatever will we all find to complain about?
Which successful author shall we criticize for their writing habits?
;D
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He went 15 novels without adding any "extras" and now we've had TWO. There are 4 more to go before the BAT and I won't be surprised if there's another extra in there... ::)
It's gonna be so tragic for so many folks when it all finally wraps up after the BAT!
Whatever will we all find to complain about?
Which successful author shall we criticize for their writing habits?
So in reality there are seven books to go, the most optimistic time line is three to four years apart, you do the math.. We are talking another twenty plus years, and most of his fans that got him here won't live to see it.. And who knows Jim may not be able to write it..
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We are talking another twenty plus years, and most of his fans that got him here won't live to see it.
I've been doing that math for a few years, and I'm thinking I won't be here for the end. I had a friend pass in 2024 who had read up through Skin Game in 2014 but decided not to buy or read Peace Talks or Battleground in 2020. She knew she wouldn't be able to read the end of the series and figured she had other books to read and better things to do. (Plus, after 6 years since Skin Game's release, she had lost track of characters, plots, where things had been left, etc. and thought it simply wasn't worth the effort to re-familiarize herself with the series.)
I can't even say I'm cautiously optimistic that the series will be done in less than 20 years even with the recent developments (Butcher already tracking progress of Mirror, Mirror; his statements that he plans to be done with MM before touring on Twelve Months). And no matter what I can't envision he'd ever get back to a Dresden novel every 18-24 months. So I guess I'll stay irritated and take the novels one at a time, and maybe at some point make the same decision as my friend.
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I can't even say I'm cautiously optimistic that the series will be done in less than 20 years even with the recent developments (Butcher already tracking progress of Mirror, Mirror; his statements that he plans to be done with MM before touring on Twelve Months). And no matter what I can't envision he'd ever get back to a Dresden novel every 18-24 months. So I guess I'll stay irritated and take the novels one at a time, and maybe at some point make the same decision as my friend.
My dear old father used to say, "if" is half of life. It's true, I won't give up reading them, however I have a lot of other books to read and read them. However I still say he can finish the series with half the novels and do it well. It might even make the stories a bit more interesting as well.
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However I still say he can finish the series with half the novels and do it well. It might even make the stories a bit more interesting as well.
I'm sure Butcher could but he and his publisher would be leaving money on the table. I wouldn't ask Butcher to forego the payout he expects for the entire 25 books, or 26 or whatever the number is today. I've watched many a long running hit TV series continue past their expiration dates but understand that the actors are getting paid money on their second contract that offset the low pay of their first, the crew and all supporting contractors are employed and providing for their families, etc. I've no problem with that so long as they don't try to tell me "it's not about the money; we still have stories to tell."
But that doesn't mean that there aren't ways to accelerate the novel writing so that Butcher and his publisher get the financial benefits of all planned novels, while we readers get the conclusion quicker. In fact, I'd bet that Butcher would see more money by finishing the series quicker (and actually finish it and able to enjoy the rewards; he's not getting younger either) as there are readers who won't start an unfinished series because they've been burnt by other authors who don't finish. I wish they'd explore alternatives to the current pace, and figure out a quicker path to the end.
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I'm sure Butcher could but he and his publisher would be leaving money on the table. I wouldn't ask Butcher to forego the payout he expects for the entire 25 books, or 26 or whatever the number is today. I've watched many a long running hit TV series continue past their expiration dates but understand that the actors are getting paid money on their second contract that offset the low pay of their first, the crew and all supporting contractors are employed and providing for their families, etc. I've no problem with that so long as they don't try to tell me "it's not about the money; we still have stories to tell."
Yes, but there is nothing sadder than a television series that has continued past it's expiration date. The actors get older, go to other roles, even die, the series has a wonderful logical ending, only to continue often with diminishing returns. We fans are loyal and continue on, they are counting on that, the writers even try to pretend that some of the events early in the series didn't happen as they try to keep the story going. It is about the money and not about the art sadly.
But that doesn't mean that there aren't ways to accelerate the novel writing so that Butcher and his publisher get the financial benefits of all planned novels, while we readers get the conclusion quicker. In fact, I'd bet that Butcher would see more money by finishing the series quicker (and actually finish it and able to enjoy the rewards; he's not getting younger either) as there are readers who won't start an unfinished series because they've been burnt by other authors who don't finish. I wish they'd explore alternatives to the current pace, and figure out a quicker path to the end.
Agreed, the novels could have a lot more content and less filler to move the story along. I get tired of having to buy yet another book in the intervening years to get a few lines furthering the series in a short story. With each book there are also more and more loose ends that will remain, loose.. That isn't very satisfying, I also think a lot more could have been done with Murphy for example after she got a Holy Sword broken. Yeah, I am aware that was great for Butters, but the fact that she was very arrogant in thinking she knew better than the Almighty as far as the rules governing the Holy Swords would have been an interesting read. Did those differences or would those differences have ultimately split her and Harry up had she not been killed?
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We fans are loyal and continue on, they are counting on that, the writers even try to pretend that some of the events early in the series didn't happen as they try to keep the story going.
You're a better fan than me. I can walk away, and have, from series for which I was an enthusiastic early adapter, participated in forums and podcasts, and otherwise annoyed people with my thoughts and cheerleading. The X-Files comes immediately to mind as an example. I quit watching seasons before it ended; I think I even left before Duchovny. I'm hoping the Dresden Files isn't added to the list. But my relationship to the series isn't solely up to me.
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You're a better fan than me. I can walk away, and have, from series for which I was an enthusiastic early adapter, participated in forums and podcasts, and otherwise annoyed people with my thoughts and cheerleading. The X-Files comes immediately to mind as an example. I quit watching seasons before it ended; I think I even left before Duchovny. I'm hoping the Dresden Files isn't added to the list. But my relationship to the series isn't solely up to me.
Oh I have walked away, but it's hard when you make friends and contacts in the forums to totally give it up. Battlestar Galactica, Game of Thrones, and JAG,[for those who remember that show] comes to my mind.
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... I can't even say I'm cautiously optimistic that the series will be done in less than 20 years even with the recent developments (Butcher already tracking progress of Mirror, Mirror; his statements that he plans to be done with MM before touring on Twelve Months). And no matter what I can't envision he'd ever get back to a Dresden novel every 18-24 months ...
I'm "cautiously optimistic" for just a hair under 20 years, presuming his health holds up (he's pretty fit, but no longer a youngling) and he doesn't suffer life-disrupting tragedies or logistical obstacles.
I'm figuring a 15-18 month per novel pace; alternating DresdenFiles with CinderSpires (as he says is his plan on an ongoing basis), that'd be 30-36 months before we're all abuzz with "Fight Night tracking on Butcher's Official Site". I don't think faster than that is at all likely; but I'd be thrilled to be proven wrong!
FN (or whatever the title is) will be vol.19 of the DF; then 20, 21, & 22; by my estimate (above) taking 120-144mo = 10-12 years to wrap up "the Dresden Files" proper.
Then the BigApocalypticTrilogy, which (at one point) Jim said he saw as one big story, and planned to write as one big push, not alternating other books; figuring the "same" per-novel-pace for 3-in-a-row, and presuming his "palate cleanser" novel between the DF proper and the BAT, that'd be another 60-72 months = 5-6 years.
So 15-18 years, if my Jim'stimates are right and I did my math right (and RL doesn't strike).
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So 15-18 years, if my Jim'stimates are right and I did my math right (and RL doesn't strike).
A lot can happen in that time, and the creative mind isn't a machine, well, not just yet anyway.
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It's Jim's story, he can write it when and how he likes. He can allow our desires to influence him, but my opinion is that he doesn't owe us anything. He's the artist, we just get to enjoy his art.
All that said, would I enjoy seeing them every 18 months or so, sure, but I'm not going to complain, I'll take them when I can get them. If for some reason I don't make it to the end, it's been a wild ride and not seeing the end of it won't bother me anymore.
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It's Jim's story, he can write it when and how he likes. He can allow our desires to influence him, but my opinion is that he doesn't owe us anything. He's the artist, we just get to enjoy his art.
Eh, I tend to disagree –as an artist myself, mind you– he doesn't make his "art" for free, he doesn't gift it away, he charges money for it, his work meets the world as part of an economical transaction, we've all helped pay for his mortgage. So, maybe he doesn't owe us the ending we all want, but he owes us explanations, and effort, above all, and yes, IMO, an ending as long as it's in his hands. Life happens to all of us, doesn't matter what type of work you do, we all have deadlines and it's only professional and ethical to strive to fulfill our commitments. The whole thing about a creative endeavor being this mystical thing that needs the "artist" to be in a special frame of mind to create just under the right set of circumstances is, at best, naive or a misunderstanding. Jim himself acknowledges this in interviews, and most people in creative industries would, unless they have delusions of grandeur.
Personally, I hope we never see the TV show get the green light until he's finished with the series in the books, because otherwise, most likely, it will interfere with him finishing the series.
I also think there are things in the series that went past the acceptable timeline, I mean, it's been about 14 years in-universe for Harry and he still doesn't know what a starborn is, or what his mother actually did. And then, Jim keeps adding basically the same character but just with a twist, I mean, Goodman is just Kincaid 2.0 and honestly, I would have preferred to explore Kincaid's character further than to have to learn another name (personally, I dunno why people are so excited about Goodman). We keep repeating the scenes where Thomas gets incapacitated, and Harry only looks for advice with Michael who should have been retired for good from the series by now and let other characters like William take the spotlight (fortunately it seems like William will be more prominent in Twelve Months).
So, I'm in favor of him starting to wrap things up and focus on The Dresden Files and not side stories.
In fact, I'd bet that Butcher would see more money by finishing the series quicker (and actually finish it and able to enjoy the rewards; he's not getting younger either) as there are readers who won't start an unfinished series because they've been burnt by other authors who don't finish. I wish they'd explore alternatives to the current pace, and figure out a quicker path to the end.
Agree.
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I also think there are things in the series that went past the acceptable timeline, I mean, it's been about 14 years in-universe for Harry and he still doesn't know what a starborn is, or what his mother actually did. And then, Jim keeps adding basically the same character but just with a twist, I mean, Goodman is just Kincaid 2.0 and honestly, I would have preferred to explore Kincaid's character further than to have to learn another name (personally, I dunno why people are so excited about Goodman). We keep repeating the scenes where Thomas gets incapacitated, and Harry only looks for advice with Michael who should have been retired for good from the series by now and let other characters like William take the spotlight (fortunately it seems like William will be more prominent in Twelve Months).
Agreed with all of that, books are now full of padding and not a lot of furtherance of the story, lots of plots and characters left hanging.
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I think I simultaneously agree with many of you, even those who said opposite things ;D ;D
I still like the DF books, some less than others. I like some of the new characters, like Goodman Grey, but I could have lived without them. The fact that I enjoy the books does not mean that I don't feel they are dragging. More characters are added and they are indeed too many loose ends. Like, now we are having Librarians? A full organization that never appeared before? Harry is having a new apprentice? (perhaps not a new character, but still, we have already seen mentor Harry. He should be too busy right now).
We have not seen characters like Elaine (I don't particularly miss her, but that is not the point), Ivy, Kinkaid, in lots of time. And at least we have an in universe reason for that. There are other characters who disappear without a trace (like Vince, was it? the p.i. Or other characters I even forgot the names, the kid who may be Tera's son). I wish we begin having answers and wrapping things so at least I hope we tick some squares with the starborn thing.
I wish there are less books. Like do MM, then the fight one and then the BAT! But those are my wishes. And Jim does not work for me. Yes, I give him money for his work, but that is a exchange. He is not my employee. So I have no reason to complain. He does what he wants, he writes what he wants, at his pace, and that is fine. I owe him too many happy hours and this forum, so I am for ever grateful.
Take all the time you need, Jim.
On the other hand, it is true that I do not understand the commercial side of this. I have no data but I would think Jim is not making such a good profit with the DF as before. Let me explain my rationale. Let's have a universe of DF readers and think in the next book. There is a subset of the readers which are people like has been reading for years. Most of that subset is going to buy the next book, but some of them are not, because they grow tired of the book, or bored, or has no money, or are not able to read anymore, or they just died. So, the subset is reducing. Then there are new readers. People who heard the series is great, or began reading the books because they were at their parent's or just sees him in the media (or actual bookstores or libraries) and got interested. But how many new readers decide to began reading a saga with 19 books and many more to come? I think the universe of reading is having a negative balance between loosing and adding readers. Is the remaining subset enough? Perhaps. But I think if Jim wrapped the saga he would have a big wave of readers (new and returning ones, their interest piqued) and he would be able to begin an entirely new saga that could attract new readers (of course, many would be DF readers, as they probably like JB style). So, I see economic profit in wrapping more than in spreading the saga. But well, that is me and it may be factors I don't know, or I am wrong about.
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28%!
Nice!
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On the other hand, it is true that I do not understand the commercial side of this. I have no data but I would think Jim is not making such a good profit with the DF as before. Let me explain my rationale. Let's have a universe of DF readers and think in the next book. There is a subset of the readers which are people like has been reading for years. Most of that subset is going to buy the next book, but some of them are not, because they grow tired of the book, or bored, or has no money, or are not able to read anymore, or they just died. So, the subset is reducing. Then there are new readers. People who heard the series is great, or began reading the books because they were at their parent's or just sees him in the media (or actual bookstores or libraries) and got interested. But how many new readers decide to began reading a saga with 19 books and many more to come? I think the universe of reading is having a negative balance between loosing and adding readers. Is the remaining subset enough? Perhaps. But I think if Jim wrapped the saga he would have a big wave of readers (new and returning ones, their interest piqued) and he would be able to begin an entirely new saga that could attract new readers (of course, many would be DF readers, as they probably like JB style). So, I see economic profit in wrapping more than in spreading the saga. But well, that is me and it may be factors I don't know, or I am wrong about.
I agree with this, especially when so little is done to actually further the story with each new book, only new questions.
I think I simultaneously agree with many of you, even those who said opposite things ;D ;D
I still like the DF books, some less than others. I like some of the new characters, like Goodman Grey, but I could have lived without them. The fact that I enjoy the books does not mean that I don't feel they are dragging. More characters are added and they are indeed too many loose ends. Like, now we are having Librarians? A full organization that never appeared before? Harry is having a new apprentice? (perhaps not a new character, but still, we have already seen mentor Harry. He should be too busy right now).
Yes, then when introduced, dropped again because there is only so much page space. Things that should have been fleshed out, are never fleshed out! I am thinking of Murphy now, her attitude in Skin Game that lead to a Holy Sword being broken, other than her physical injuries were never addressed! No second guessing on her part?
I wish there are less books. Like do MM, then the fight one and then the BAT! But those are my wishes. And Jim does not work for me. Yes, I give him money for his work, but that is a exchange. He is not my employee. So I have no reason to complain. He does what he wants, he writes what he wants, at his pace, and that is fine. I owe him too many happy hours and this forum, so I am for ever grateful.
Actually we are Jim's employer, we buy his books, this is how he and his publisher make their profits.
I don't pretend to understand the commercial side of it either, that's why I never bought the reasoning for splitting Peace Talks and Battleground into two books. I know what we were told, about it was to keep the cost down to us because one book was too long.. However if you do the page count, the two books didn't add up to more than many books I had recently bought, and the price for the eight hundred page book was no more or not much more than a three or four hundred page book.. What is more if you add up the price of paying twice instead of once, it cost me more money!! What is worse, it was obvious to many of us that story wise, splitting it into two books hurt, not helped the story Jim was trying to tell!
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Actually we are Jim's employer, we buy his books, this is how he and his publisher make their profits.
We are his clients, not his employers or bosses. He offers what we want to sell and it is up to us if we want to buy it or not.
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We are his clients, not his employers or bosses. He offers what we want to sell and it is up to us if we want to buy it or not.
I think that is a matter of point of view, yes, we are his clients or customers, but at the same time since we have the final say on buying his books or not, we are also his employers. Because if we don't buy, the publisher won't employ him because they won't make money. I think we are both right.
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Ok, as long as I am right you can be right too :P :P :P
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;)
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Also, in a recent video, his wife needs him to finish it before the new year I believe, over a comment or discussion with a redditor?
Welp, he looks unlikely to hit "by the new year!" ;)
It has been stuck at 28% complete for over a month. :o
Maybe we can generously presume the timeframe was "a year" (i.e. from whenever the reddit exchange occurred) rather than a hard-dated "by new years."
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I saw the video and interpreted it the same way as RobReece. I did read his comment first, so that may have colored my interpretation. Jim has also repeatedly said he wants Mirror Mirror finished before/by the time he does his book tour.