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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: RobReece on July 21, 2025, 01:48:37 PM
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I recently signed up for the News Letter that was offered on Jim's website, one of the emails I received contained a reading list of all the books and stories in the Dresdenverse, including the graphic novels, novellas and microfictions... I thought I was familiar with all of it and read it all except the graphic novels. But what surprised me is that it lists two novellas, The Law and one called "Out Law" that occurs after Twelve Months.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any additional information on this novella?
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I found "The Law," which I have, it came out a while ago and discussed here. However I couldn't find anything for "Out Law" by Jim Butcher.. I wonder if it was simply an error?
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If the list says "Out Law" occurs after Twelve Months then I suppose it's something Jim is writing now, or proposing to write soon and it will be released next year.
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The Law occurred after Battle Ground so perhaps it makes sense the next Dresden Files novella to take place after Twelve Months. From the title, my guess is Out Law will have something to do with the consequences of Harry being kicked out of the White Council. Though without reading Twelve Months or hearing Jim drop some clues, there is no way to be certain.
I see that Jim will be making an appearance at Dragon Con Labor Day weekend, maybe he will give the novella a mention, even though most attendees will want to hear something about Twelve Months.
In any case, great catch RobReece in getting that information and posting it here.
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The Law occurred after Battle Ground so perhaps it makes sense the next Dresden Files novella to take place after Twelve Months. From the title, my guess is Out Law will have something to do with the consequences of Harry being kicked out of the White Council. Though without reading Twelve Months or hearing Jim drop some clues, there is no way to be certain.
I see that Jim will be making an appearance at Dragon Con Labor Day weekend, maybe he will give the novella a mention, even though most attendees will want to hear something about Twelve Months.
In any case, great catch RobReece in getting that information and posting it here.
I was thinking along the same lines, since Harry is now an outlaw .. However when I couldn't find anything on it I thought possible error... It could be though that while planned, i.e. title, since nothing has been started yet and Twelve Months is still months away the only place it is mentioned at all is on Jim's website.
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These were my thoughts as well, just wanted to see if anyone else had more information.
Thanks everybody.
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It's worth noting that Jim has new short fiction coming out via Kickstarter short story collection. It wouldn't floor to me to discover he sets a short story immediately after a major DF book similar to the Murphy short story after Changes or the Christmas Eve story. Maybe he does something from Lara's or Maggie's perspective after Twelve Months. Maybe it's from Butters' perspective as he gets a third girlfriend, lol. Either way, this is now a strong possibility.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/unbroken/unbroken-new-tales-by-masters-of-fantasy
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This is just pure speculation. It is not based on anything in the novels or other Dresden Files shorter fiction. Having a short story or novella that takes place after Twelve Months could allow Jim to do something Jim claims he hasn't done in a Dresden Files novel, create a cliff hanger that leads directly into the next novel Mirror Mirror.
I'm thinking of the late 80's, early 90's TV show Quantum Leap, in which each episode would end with the main character finishing whatever mission he was on and then leaping into someone else's life and body, often in the middle of a dangerous situation. Dr. Sam Becket would always respond to these surprises by saying "Oh Boy" with varying levels of surprise and stress in his voice.
The next story or novella may be titled Out Law. It seems a reasonable possibility that a story with this title could involve the White Council. The last time Harry spoke to anyone in the Council it was Carlos Ramirez, who appeared to blame Harry for the deaths of Wardens Wild Bill, Yoshimo and the disappearance of Warden Chandler. With those facts in mind, I could see Harry being reminded of this, along with whatever else he might be accused of in the story itself, though eventually managing to exonerate himself. The Quantum Leap twist would be Harry being summoned into an incredibly dangerous situation where someone; more likely a bunch of someone's, are trying to kill him, but Warden Chandler is also there and the only person who can save Harry. Que Harry saying "Oh Boy."
OK, maybe Jim isn't a Quantum Leap fan, but I could still envision Out Law being used as a setup to the beginning of Mirror Mirror. With luck, by the time Out Law is released Jim will have finished be close to finishing the next Cinder Spires novel and be ready to start on Mirror Mirror. You may have noticed Jim hasn't done many personal appearances this year. Other than Dragon Con in Atlanta during the upcoming Labor Day weekend, I don't believe he has done a major convention this year. I know he cancelled an appearance this April in Chicago. With luck, maybe that means Jim is making great progress with that third Cinder Spires book. I know I'm looking forward to that novel because I very much enjoyed the second one, but also because the sooner Jim finishes it, the sooner he can start on Mirror Mirror.
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My thought was that TM would culminate with the wedding between Harry and Laura, but immediately prior to that, Harry gets switched with mirror Harry, so mirror Harry ends up married and not ours.
Book ends with that cliffhanger...
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This is just pure speculation. It is not based on anything in the novels or other Dresden Files shorter fiction. Having a short story or novella that takes place after Twelve Months could allow Jim to do something Jim claims he hasn't done in a Dresden Files novel, create a cliff hanger that leads directly into the next novel Mirror Mirror ...
I think Jim is pretty firmly set against putting plot-critical elements into the shorts.
He wants the novels to stand on their own.
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My thought was that TM would culminate with the wedding between Harry and Laura, but immediately prior to that, Harry gets switched with mirror Harry, so mirror Harry ends up married and not ours.
Book ends with that cliffhanger...
I don't know if we're going to have a full-on ST:TOS-Mirror,Mirror repeat, with Mirror!Harry coming to bide in Dresdenverse!Prime, while Harry!Prime goes to Mirror!Dresdenverse...
I was kinda-sorta thinking that Mirror!Harry was gonna summon Harry!Prime, and they'd both be in the Mirrorverse together for a while, with no Harry at all in Dresdenverse!Prime. The thing is, if Mirror!Harry tries to sub-in for Harry!Prime, Mab will be able to tell more-or-less instantly: the man standing at the altar is not her Winter Knight.
Hence, "mysteriously-vanished Harry."
This would make for the most-awkward of return situations for Harry!Prime, when he gets back home: he will have jilted Lara at the altar, and disobeyed the Winter Queen... both in a very-public manner... I don't think a box of chocolates and a bouquet of flowers will make an adequate apology.
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Well, not to be the skunk at the garden party... ::) But since this has been the most anticipated book of the series so far, I mean we've been speculating for years! It could turn out to be the most disappointing.... :-\ I don't envy Jim the pressure he must feel when he sits down to write this book!
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I don't know if we're going to have a full-on ST:TOS-Mirror,Mirror repeat, with Mirror!Harry coming to bide in Dresdenverse!Prime, while Harry!Prime goes to Mirror!Dresdenverse...
IIRC, at a signing or interview, years ago, that episode of Star Trek was the inspiration for MM, to the point (now I'm trying to remember what I'd heard...) that either he might have mirror Harry with a goatee like Kirk did or he might have him actually wear a hat instead...
That's why I think it will be a switch, ending the book with a switch back to the proper time stream. Then a good part of the next book could be Harry still dealing with all the stuff that mirror Harry messed up here. Since we wouldn't see what was happening here as we only get our Harry's perspective.
At least those are my theories...
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IIRC, at a signing or interview, years ago, that episode of Star Trek was the inspiration for MM, to the point (now I'm trying to remember what I'd heard...) that either he might have mirror Harry with a goatee like Kirk did or he might have him actually wear a hat instead...
That's why I think it will be a switch, ending the book with a switch back to the proper time stream. Then a good part of the next book could be Harry still dealing with all the stuff that mirror Harry messed up here. Since we wouldn't see what was happening here as we only get our Harry's perspective.
At least those are my theories...
I confess that a full-on switcheroo makes some sense, given the degree to which Jim seems to be citint the ST:TOS episode (and you're right: Jim has said that goatee's & eye-patches (and Harry in a Hat!) will be included!). FWIW, it was _Spock_ in the goatee, tho; not Kirk. But I think id-Harry in the dreams wears a goatee, so I suspect Mirror!Harry (who'll be "cooler" looking, and more id-driven than Harry!Prime) will also wear a goatee... more than a little foreshadowing, I think, and maybe some clues for how Harry!Prime can handle Mirror!Harry.
But equally-much to the ST episode, I'm expecting to see echoes of the old Jimmy Stewart pic, It's a Wonderful Life: Harry will get to see how very much he was a force for good in his home 'verse, how a darker Harry makes for a darker 'verse.
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I confess that a full-on switcheroo makes some sense, given the degree to which Jim seems to be citint the ST:TOS episode (and you're right: Jim has said that goatee's & eye-patches (and Harry in a Hat!) will be included!). FWIW, it was _Spock_ in the goatee, tho; not Kirk. But I think id-Harry in the dreams wears a goatee, so I suspect Mirror!Harry (who'll be "cooler" looking, and more id-driven than Harry!Prime) will also wear a goatee... more than a little foreshadowing, I think, and maybe some clues for how Harry!Prime can handle Mirror!Harry.
But equally-much to the ST episode, I'm expecting to see echoes of the old Jimmy Stewart pic, It's a Wonderful Life: Harry will get to see how very much he was a force for good in his home 'verse, how a darker Harry makes for a darker 'verse.
I can see that, we have seen Harry go into severe clinical depression in the past, notably after Grave Peril after Susan was half turned and left him for South America. The events of Summer Knight helped to pull him out of it, but at the beginning of the book he was in pretty bad shape. Yes, in Changes he did arrange his suicide but that was more about outside influences, i.e. Lasciel, which finally pushed Harry over the edge.. This allowed Uriel to intervene as we all remember.
Post Battle Ground, the death of Murphy, being kicked out of the White Council, being rejected by those he thought were friends like Carlos, the condition of Thomas, Justine/baby, all the death in Chicago, forced marriage to Lara, estrangement from Eb, financial struggles, and who knows what could be going on with preteen Maggie; anyway, I can see Harry coming to the conclusion that the world would be better off if he had never been born... Enter the Angel Clarence, or most likely Uriel, who tells him he can arrange that, and does... More lessons for Harry..
I can also see the alternative universe thing ala Star Trek, good Harry verses bad Harry, and as you suggest, Harry having to repair the damage when things go back to "normal."
But you know what? While both ideas might have been cool fifteen or so years ago when we first heard about it.. I am wondering if the time for Mirror Mirror has past? I mean we sort of had a version of it in Ghost Story. While the idea of Harry having to clean up the mess that his evil counterpart made for the next couple of books seems cool, if it doesn't advance the series towards the BAT, what's the point? I am tired of waiting sometimes years for the next book, the book is okay but it really doesn't advance the series all that much.. A few crumbs here, a few crumbs there doesn't cut it!
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... While the idea of Harry having to clean up the mess that his evil counterpart made for the next couple of books seems cool, if it doesn't advance the series towards the BAT, what's the point? ...
I think we will see some "advance BAT:" Jim has said that -- absent Harry being the Lone Monkeywrench -- the "bad guys" in the Mirrorverse will have advanced their plans quite a bit further than they have in the Prime'verse.
I expect we'll see things like "the White Council has already fallen" (because Harry never took down the Rampires, who had time to gather strength and strike decisively) ... but maybe Harry can learn who the traitor(s) on the council are(were), who is now operating openly as a "Wizard of the Circle?"
I expect we'll see Murphy, but one who never learned to trust Harry (and for good reason), never worked with him as a genuine ally. So her world has been getting darker... and Harry is part of her problem, one of the Bad Guys. She's bitter, and hurting, and has zero trust for Harry Blackstone Copperfield Dresden. And Harry -- still grieving her loss -- has to face angry distrusting embittered Karrin.
Sounds like catnip for Jim!
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I think we will see some "advance BAT:" Jim has said that -- absent Harry being the Lone Monkeywrench -- the "bad guys" in the Mirrorverse will have advanced their plans quite a bit further than they have in the Prime'verse.
I expect we'll see things like "the White Council has already fallen" (because Harry never took down the Rampires, who had time to gather strength and strike decisively) ... but maybe Harry can learn who the traitor(s) on the council are(were), who is now operating openly as a "Wizard of the Circle?"
I expect we'll see Murphy, but one who never learned to trust Harry (and for good reason), never worked with him as a genuine ally. So her world has been getting darker... and Harry is part of her problem, one of the Bad Guys. She's bitter, and hurting, and has zero trust for Harry Blackstone Copperfield Dresden. And Harry -- still grieving her loss -- has to face angry distrusting embittered Karrin.
Sounds like catnip for Jim!
Maybe, but while interesting, it advances nothing! Or very little, in a lot of ways it rehashes the same story but from a different point of view... Harry calls himself the wizard of Chicago now, he is dealing with a lot there, rather the story was about that, there are so many loose ends that have never been resolved..
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... Harry calls himself the wizard of Chicago now, he is dealing with a lot there, rather the story was about that ...
That has just happened, at the end of last book! But yes, I think we'll see some of that. I think the upcoming book -- Twelve Months -- will have a lot of "Harry in Chicago" events.
Him and Maggie (and likely City & State wanting to look in (courtesy of someone pulling strings, to entangle Harry & slow him down)).
Harry going on "dates" with Lara, because the Winter Knight is "courting" the White Princess.
Harry interacting with his Bannermen (hundreds of whom survived).
Possibly getting back to "working for a living" -- I haven't seen the WoJ, but several folks report that Jim says Harry is out of diamonds.
Harry interacting with Chicago PD (as the last person to see Karrin Murphy alive; but also as a "person of interest" in several investigations just previous).
Maybe even Harry seeking therapy for PTSD, grief, etc.
(but we were speculating about the book after that (or maybe the next one after that (d'we know for sure if Wrestling comes before or after Goatees&Eyepatches?_ ... whichever, neither of them has even been begun yet!)) We'll see some "Wizard of Chicago" in the just-finished book currently enqueued for release with Penguin/Roc)
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That has just happened, at the end of last book! But yes, I think we'll see some of that. I think the upcoming book -- Twelve Months -- will have a lot of "Harry in Chicago" events.
It's more than that, it's the next phase of the story.
(but we were speculating about the book after that (or maybe the next one after that (d'we know for sure if Wrestling comes before or after Goatees&Eyepatches?_ ... whichever, neither of them has even been begun yet!)) We'll see some "Wizard of Chicago" in the just-finished book currently enqueued for release with Penguin/Roc)
Honestly, he could do Mirrormirror in an appendex after he finishes the series..
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I've never heard of the Out Law novella, but I agree that it makes sense to dovetail with Harry's status as an outlaw of the White Council. It could be set after Twelve Months and explore some of the fallout from that. Another idea I had was it being set from the perspective of someone on the White Council like Ramirez tasked with keeping an eye on Harry and seeing how he navigates being an "out law." Carlos could keep coming up against examples of Harry using his power for good which contrasts with what he has been told/believed leading him to possibly change his mind or challenge the White Council on Harry's behalf.
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Another idea I had was it being set from the perspective of someone on the White Council like Ramirez tasked with keeping an eye on Harry and seeing how he navigates being an "out law." Carlos could keep coming up against examples of Harry using his power for good which contrasts with what he has been told/believed leading him to possibly change his mind or challenge the White Council on Harry's behalf.
Up to now, the only formats Jim has released from others perspectives are short stories and micro fictions. I'm not thinking he'd release a novella from another character's point of view.
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Honestly, he could do Mirrormirror in an appendex after he finishes the series.
Honesty, I'm expecting to see a lot of clues/reveals in Mirror Mirror: as the ripples spread down the timeline from the one Choice, everybody will react differently. Harry will gain otherwise-impossible-to-gain insights, see the covert operators operating differently and be able to draw compare/contrast conclusions.
Obviously, Jim won't be spoiler'ing the entire rest of the series, but the potential to reveal material in legit ways (that would otherwise "need" to be concealed for in-universe reasons) is huge.
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Honesty, I'm expecting to see a lot of clues/reveals in Mirror Mirror: as the ripples spread down the timeline from the one Choice, everybody will react differently. Harry will gain otherwise-impossible-to-gain insights, see the covert operators operating differently and be able to draw compare/contrast conclusions.
Obviously, Jim won't be spoiler'ing the entire rest of the series, but the potential to reveal material in legit ways (that would otherwise "need" to be concealed for in-universe reasons) is huge.
Or more loose ends that will never get tied..