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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: KurtinStGeorge on May 21, 2025, 09:15:28 AM
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A couple of years ago I was going to start a thread about the times Harry has thought about something and then had another character repeat the same or very similar phrase back to him. I found a Word doc I wrote on the subject, but I don't remember if I ever actually posted it.
I can think of three distinct times this has happened but perhaps there have been others that I missed. In Cold Days Harry has this random thought that two plus two can't equal five; except under near impossible or irrational conditions, then near the end of the novel, just when Maeve thinks she has won and starts to aim her gun at Harry she says, "Two plus two is five."
In Dead Beat Harry says to himself, "You don't get to be the Merlin of the White Council by collecting bottle caps" only to have Carlos Ramirez say the exact same phrase back to him a few paragraphs later.
In Death Masks, Harry talks about the difference between "fun time handcuffs" and real handcuffs when he first meets Anna Valmont, only to have Molly Carpenter mention "fun time" handcuffs in another chapter.
I have never been able to come up with a reasonable explanation for these coincidences, until now. What if part of Harry's starborn powers go beyond having influence over Outsiders. What if Harry can mentally influence his fellow mortals? Not in the way Molly can read and control people's minds. It would be a very subtle talent and probably not one that would have a recognizable magical signature. If this is the case, during those rare occasions when Harry has manifested this talent, he's done so without realizing it.
If Harry did become aware that he has this ability; well, I'm pretty sure the White Council wouldn't like it. Even if Harry simply used it to send an important message in a covert manner, most Council members would probably be suspicious of Harry's motives. This might explain or at least partially explain why Senior Council members are reluctant to tell Harry what it means to be Starborn.
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That is an intriguing possibility, here is another aspect of what you are suggesting, it isn't just his friends that are repeating this back but his foes as well. So what if it isn't an ability that Harry has as a star born, but that he is being watched? By who, whom, what or how, we have no clue as yet.. Who or what has the ability to follow Harry close enough undetected to be able to report back to his friends and foes what Harry is saying? Since free will is a huge theme of the series, my vote goes to both Heaven and Hell, both have a huge interest in the final BAT.
Or the simplest explanation? It's simply an author's ploy to make for more drama, as in a critical moment Maeve repeating back to Harry about things not adding up and they didn't. Yeah, I know, cheap shot.. ::)
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I've been thinking about this a lot and this makes a lot of sense that this would happen sometimes. Any being sensitive to thoughts may accidentally or purposedly repeat phrases like this as a way to be persuasive. Molly is a very sensitive person so it makes sense that she would be able to do it. While I suppose we could make the same argument about Maeve and Ramirez because they're magic users, I think there's another intriguing possibility: Carlos and Maeve were both infected by Nemesis and did it on accident.
Maeve being Nemfected a strong possibility given that she almost blew up Demonreach and that was the explicit goal of Nemesis in Battle Ground. She was also the very first target of the Starborn Winter Knight.
I think that there's a decent argument for Carlos too. First, we know that Justine was Nemfected and had to be infected by someone. Carlos had a few minutes next to her in White Night while Harry was listening to the WCV debate the merits of the crusade against low talent wizards. This was also around when Justine became close to Lara. Second, we know that Carlos was nearby a Cthulhu cult in Cold Case. He says that he got a report from Elaine to check it out but that's an easy cover story to make up. Third, we know that at least one shadowy organization tasked an attractive, respected, and talented White Council Warden to become close to Dresden in order to keep an eye on him. Would it be strange for another party to do something similar? Fourth, isn't it weird that several experienced Wardens fought Black Court Vampires in Battle Ground and only Harry and Carlos survived? Fifth, isn't it odd that several of the stories he prominently features include Outsiders? War Cry, White Night, Proven Guilty, Cold Case, and Battle Ground/Peace Talks all have Carlos and all have Outsiders. The only one with a lot of Carlos but no obvious Outsider influence is Dead Beat. That one is centered on a conflict with Kemmler's disciples but would it shock you to discover Kemmler made a deal with Outsiders? Maybe one Kemmler's disciples was Nemfected and that's how Carlos got Nemfected. Sixth, he's repeatedly mentioned as the youngest to every reach Warden Commander. It wouldn't be surprising if the Outsider gave him help to accomplish it.
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I am almost sure that there was other similar moment with Marcone, that could be atributed to "great minds..." but also to magic if Marcone had the coin. I would need to reread the series, what I really have no time to do.
My fragile memory aside, I agree with KurtinStGeorge. And it also made me think, what if one of the reasons everyone is so reluctant about telling Harry what it means to be a starborn is that being aware of that could change the powers themselves? Like when a watcher changes the result of an experiment just because it watches. The other option, of course, it is that knowing how powerful one can be could be very tempting. Almost like a coin. And we know that Harry could resist that allure.
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The "Bottle caps" remark in particular is one I'm pretty sure I've seen a bunch.
If anyone has the whole text of the DF series in searchable document form, I'd be interested to see how many times that occurs, and who says it
I have an alternative theory to suggest: what if it's early-stage foretelling? A turn of phrase that Harry subconsciously foresees being spoken, and "sticks in his mind" before it even happens...
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Also, I wonder if it cold be tied to Harry's habit of naming things and people. Just look at Toot and how he's grown as Harry has given him more responsibility along with the different titles. Word-O-Mancy?
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Ebrien, I’ve thought for some time that Harry’s naming characters has some importance to the story. Remember when Harry dropped “El” from Mr Sunshine’s name or when he shortened the Earlking’s name to Earl? Those characters were quick to react and did not think the matter inconsequential. Giving Toot and Demonreach names has had significant consequences. I suspect Harry’s naming these characters gives him some ability to define their natures.
Having said that, returning to the thread topic, I prefer g33k’s concept that Harry is prescient to the idea that he is broadcasting his thoughts. Broadcasting his thoughts, even if restricted to certain “sensitive” individuals, could be a distinct weakness for Harry. And outside the phrase repetition, there is no evidence I can recall of Harry’s enemies knowing what he is thinking. For example, none of Harry’s companions in Skin Game seemed to be aware of his arrangement with Goodman Grey.
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Having said that, returning to the thread topic, I prefer g33k’s concept that Harry is prescient to the idea that he is broadcasting his thoughts. Broadcasting his thoughts, even if restricted to certain “sensitive” individuals, could be a distinct weakness for Harry. And outside the phrase repetition, there is no evidence I can recall of Harry’s enemies knowing what he is thinking. For example, none of Harry’s companions in Skin Game seemed to be aware of his arrangement with Goodman Grey.
They didn't know about the arrangement with Goodman Grey because they were made at Mac's Bar with special security blockers put on by Mab.
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We know that wizards develop some level of Sight as described as Luccio in Small Favor. Wizards develop some level of precognizance as they mature. Harry recognized his with the familiarity with the island. What if it has been stirring before that and part of it is awareness of phrases that will be said in the near future.