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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: SerScot on April 10, 2025, 12:35:32 AM
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Seriously.
Merlin is said to remember the future the way other man remember the past. We know, given how Demonreach was created, that Merlin played with time… hard. We also know Harry will at some point break the law against time travel. We know Harry felt a kinship to Demonreach even before he claimed it… why is that?
It makes sense for Harry to… be… Merlin.
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Seriously.
Merlin is said to remember the future the way other man remember the past. We know, given how Demonreach was created, that Merlin played with time… hard. We also know Harry will at some point break the law against time travel. We know Harry felt a kinship to Demonreach even before he claimed it… why is that?
It makes sense for Harry to… be… Merlin.
I believe Luccio explained what Harry experienced on the island as "wizard's foresight." I agree there is a connection to Merlin, it was strongly hinted that Eb has his journals. Now while it is possible that they have been handed down from master to apprentice over the centuries, I still think there may very well be a remote blood connection.
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I really think Harry… is… Merlin… we will see.
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I really think Harry… is… Merlin… we will see.
What if Merlin is a Mantle? And no not like the title in the White Council.... though in thinking that, maybe Merlin is a Mantle that was forgotten (on purpose or by accident) but though lore/history the White Councile adopted it a title.
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I really think Harry… is… Merlin… we will see.
I think that'd have to be an off-stage event. Harry is a long, long way from doing Merlin-caliber work. Centuries at least; maybe even millennia (n.b. wizards don't have millennia-long lifespans). Also, the Harry we have seen is frankly not smart enough; he's not stupid or anything, but (for example) Butters in a few months' tutelage from Bob had figured out a bunch of magic that had never occurred to Harry. But Merlin-caliber magic is (that we've seen) extraordinarily complex.
The only way I could see it happening is if he gets some sort of extra magical knowlege, an Intellectus of magic or etc; and not on a "lab assistant" basis like Bob, as the struggles Bob has educating Harry are well-known. He needs something internal. As I recall, though, Bob wouldn't be enough -- not even Bob understood most of the rune-work, when Harry took him out to look at the island.
Merging with the Archive might do it; or with Demonreach itself (though AFAIK the Archive is bound to a female-descent bloodline, & likely has extremely-potent magic to prevent anyone else from interfering; and a Demonreach-merger would cause a tautological paradox: Merlin creating Demonreach who creates Merlin).
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I believe Luccio explained what Harry experienced on the island as "wizard's foresight."
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Yes; Luccio apparently recognized the phenomenon well.
I'm working with that idea as provisionally the correct explanation.
But... we should recall that Luccio was (iirc) under Peabody's influence at the time, and so it's possible Peabody implanted some memories/explanations to feed misinformation to Harry. I think it's VERY possible that the Black Council has paid enough attention to the island & the Warden role to have a very clear idea what to expect. Having a ready explanation that side-tracks Harry might have been something Peabody had planned in advance.
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Yes; Luccio apparently recognized the phenomenon well.
I'm working with that idea as provisionally the correct explanation.
But... we should recall that Luccio was (iirc) under Peabody's influence at the time, and so it's possible Peabody implanted some memories/explanations to feed misinformation to Harry. I think it's VERY possible that the Black Council has paid enough attention to the island & the Warden role to have a very clear idea what to expect. Having a ready explanation that side-tracks Harry might have been something Peabody had planned in advance.
I don't think her answer in this case was influenced by Peabody's ink simply because her answer was straight forward and didn't affect Harry's future behavior in any way significant.. She simply told Harry that he had the wizard's version of deja vu, and Harry accepted that. She could have said that it meant he had a future close connection with the island, however she didn't elaborate.
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I don't think her answer in this case was influenced by Peabody's ink simply because her answer was straight forward and didn't affect Harry's future behavior in any way significant.. She simply told Harry that he had the wizard's version of deja vu, and Harry accepted that. She could have said that it meant he had a future close connection with the island, however she didn't elaborate.
Given the vast power available to the Warden of the Well (undoubtedly known to the BC) I think it very possible that Peabody would have had her downplay the importance / significance, just so that Harry would put it lower on his own priority-list for figuring-out.
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Given the vast power available to the Warden of the Well (undoubtedly known to the BC) I think it very possible that Peabody would have had her downplay the importance / significance, just so that Harry would put it lower on his own priority-list for figuring-out.
That's possible, but was Harry even on Peabody's radar at that point? I doubt it, now it might be that Harry got lucky because he rarely went to headquarters, had few if any run ins with Peabody, and never signed anything or was in a position to sign anything using Peabody's ink until Turncoat.
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That's possible, but was Harry even on Peabody's radar at that point? I doubt it, now it might be that Harry got lucky because he rarely went to headquarters, had few if any run ins with Peabody, and never signed anything or was in a position to sign anything using Peabody's ink until Turncoat.
Harry -- as a notorious maybe-warlock -- was undoubtedly already on Peabody's radar.
As soon as Harry began refusing to sign Peabody's forms (which is to say, immediately-following Dead Beat, when Harry became a Warden), he likely became a major target for Peabody to figure out & try to get some other leverage on.
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Harry -- as a notorious maybe-warlock -- was undoubtedly already on Peabody's radar.
As soon as Harry began refusing to sign Peabody's forms (which is to say, immediately-following Dead Beat, when Harry became a Warden), he likely became a major target for Peabody to figure out & try to get some other leverage on.
That was the point of Luccio allowing herself, plus her now young woman body, to become Harry's girlfriend though it violated ethics. On the other hand it doesn't mean that what she explained to Harry was a lie, or would be of much use to Peabody.
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I don't think Harry is Merlin. That's not where he ends up IMHO. My prediction is that he ends up as some kind of immortal power that people can call on for aid.
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... On the other hand it doesn't mean that what she explained to Harry was a lie, or would be of much use to Peabody.
No, you're right: that's not at all an automatic thing.
I'm just pointing out that:
(a) Peabody was in control of Luccio at that point, so anything she said/did is potentially suspect/false
(b) Jim loves to drop minor details that become critically-important later (have we ever seen anything else regarding wizards' supposed "foresight"?)
(c) The "Black Council" and/or Peabody undoubtedly knew much more about the island than Harry, and plausibly would want him misdirected on the matter.
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What if Merlin is a Mantle? And no not like the title in the White Council.... though in thinking that, maybe Merlin is a Mantle that was forgotten (on purpose or by accident) but though lore/history the White Councile adopted it a title.
Lord… I hope not.
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What if Merlin is a Mantle? And no not like the title in the White Council.... though in thinking that, maybe Merlin is a Mantle that was forgotten (on purpose or by accident) but though lore/history the White Councile adopted it a title.
I don't think the WC has the mojo / know-how to create a Mantle.
I could believe they were using the role of "the Merlin" to explore doing so, however...
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I really doubt Harry is literally a younger version of THE Merlin. I don't want him to be that, either. It's too simplistic, it's almost the classic time travel time loop story.
But I do think that there is some strong connection of some sort between Merlin and Harry, and I suspect that Harry might, way down the road, master magic at Merlinian levels. But that would probably be off-stage and post-story. I suspect Harry will eventually meet Merlin, too, either because he's still out there somewhere or through time travel.
(Another possibility that I've toyed with, though I don't think it likely, is that the culmination of the series will end with The Magic Goes Away, i.e. the world becomes non-magical and the supernatural powers fade away. But I don't expect that.)
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(Another possibility that I've toyed with, though I don't think it likely, is that the culmination of the series will end with The Magic Goes Away, i.e. the world becomes non-magical and the supernatural powers fade away. But I don't expect that.)
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I hope not, too much like a variation of the Terry Goodkind series, "The Sword of Truth."
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I hope not, too much like a variation of the Terry Goodkind series, "The Sword of Truth."
Just you wait, it's only a matter of time until Harry defeats communism by making a giant statue of himself and butchers the evil pacifists.
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Just you wait, it's only a matter of time until Harry defeats communism by making a giant statue of himself and butchers the evil pacifists.
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I ... guess this is a further riff on "Sword of Truth" (the sundial statue "Life"?)
I'm pretty sure that Jim pretty-rigorously avoids politics (as Harry, he denigrates all politicians equally, just as politicians, without ever calling out specific policies).
And your own remarks in themselves seem to be straying well-into the explicitly-disallowed territory... even if you're "just making a joke" or "forgot the /s" or whatever.
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???
I ... guess this is a further riff on "Sword of Truth" (the sundial statue "Life"?)
I'm pretty sure that Jim pretty-rigorously avoids politics (as Harry, he denigrates all politicians equally, just as politicians, without ever calling out specific policies).
And your own remarks in themselves seem to be straying well-into the explicitly-disallowed territory... even if you're "just making a joke" or "forgot the /s" or whatever.
I don't think so, nothing political in referring to other fantasy series, and the Dresden Files is all about war, peace, good, and evil... You really can't discuss the Dresdenverse without getting into those things, the world has been thus since the beginning of time.. In my opinion no one's toes politically or religiously have been stepped on..
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(Another possibility that I've toyed with, though I don't think it likely, is that the culmination of the series will end with The Magic Goes Away, i.e. the world becomes non-magical and the supernatural powers fade away. But I don't expect that.)
I hope not, too much like a variation of the Terry Goodkind series, "The Sword of Truth."
I agree with your sentiments @Mira. I enjoyed the first half to 2/3 of "The Sword of Truth" series. I was not a fan of the whole magic going away aspect. The Dresden series has been about the supernatural coexisting next to the vanilla mortals. I think that magic/supernatural fading away would be a huge departure from the series up to this point.
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What if the Merlin is a prisoner in Daemonreach?
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Count me in the group of people that do not think Harry and Merlin are or should be the same person. I agree that it seems to simplistic of an explanation. I believe that Merlin is a distinct person. We know that he created the White Council. I believe that if Harry is the younger Merlin and thus when he is older goes back in time and sets up the White Council he would have set it up differently due to his younger experience with it. In other words, I have a hard time believing that Harry, with his experience with the council's actions towards him and his beliefs about how the council should act would set the council up in a way that would allow that to happen.
My own pet theory is that Merlin, with all his time travel shenanigans, sets up the Well to harbor the worst of the worst because he knows it will be needed. Because he knows it will be needed he leaves a message for the future Warden of the Well with instructions and advice. I'm thinking something along the lines of Harry's mother's amulet. This would allow Harry to interact with Merlin and give us a window into who he was without having to do a whole separate book about it.
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... My own pet theory is that Merlin, with all his time travel shenanigans, sets up the Well to harbor the worst of the worst because he knows it will be needed. Because he knows it will be needed he leaves a message for the future Warden of the Well with instructions and advice. I'm thinking something along the lines of Harry's mother's amulet. This would allow Harry to interact with Merlin and give us a window into who he was without having to do a whole separate book about it.
I think there are Well-secrets behind the firewall that is "Alfred."
We already know it knows stuff Harry doesn't, and doles out information on a very-limited basis.
I suspect there are one or more "levels" of information-disclosure that will be unlocked like a videogame achievement. Possibly even a videogame-easter-egg that Merlin (who saw it in his time-travels) leaves as a joke.
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I think there are Well-secrets behind the firewall that is "Alfred."
We already know it knows stuff Harry doesn't, and doles out information on a very-limited basis.
I suspect there are one or more "levels" of information-disclosure that will be unlocked like a videogame achievement. Possibly even a videogame-easter-egg that Merlin (who saw it in his time-travels) leaves as a joke.
I hadn't considered Alfred being the source of a message. The whole video through Bob in Cold Days proves that he can convey complex messages and it is certainly possible that there are messages left to be unlocked. One of the running themes in the Dresden Files seems to be that your knowledge is limited until you are worthy of it (example: Harry getting his mothers amulet and Harry discovering the name Nemesis). Typically, being worthy is demonstrated by asking the right questions of the right people. Who knows what secrets Alfred has that are just waiting for the right question.
Side note: It is obvious that Alfred was aware of the creation of Demonreach which begs the question if he was a genus loci that was present before the prison was formed and he adapted/changed with the formation of the prison or if he was specifically created/formed by Merlin during the creation of the prison to be its Guard.
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Side note: It is obvious that Alfred was aware of the creation of Demonreach which begs the question if he was a genus loci that was present before the prison was formed and he adapted/changed with the formation of the prison or if he was specifically created/formed by Merlin during the creation of the prison to be its Guard.
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That is an excellent question, and is it possible to even create a genus loci?
Side note, though I have enjoyed "The Sword of Truth" series as well, I think it got a bit long winded..
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That is an excellent question, and is it possible to even create a genus loci?
I do not know for sure. I think that if there is a place of significance that has power an awareness can develop. Here is a WOJ that seems to suggest the Outer Gates could gain a conciousness:
The Gate seems like something that, if it didn’t start with a consciousness, would develop it over time. Is that the case?
It probably is, but the consciousness of an inanimate object like that is mostly like that of a mountain. “I AM HERE.” And it’s just increasingly aware of its here-ness. The Gate actually exists very differently than what Harry saw, but that’s how Harry has to interpret it because it’s far out in the Nevernever. Your mind has to put things into terms it can understand or you go squirrely. Harry’s got a very good mind for reducing things to simple ideas. Which most of the Senior Council would say with a roll of their eyes.
2015 San Francisco signing (Coopersfield Books)
Side note, though I have enjoyed "The Sword of Truth" series as well, I think it got a bit long winded..
I feel like it started to lose its way near the end. Which is weird. I felt like there was an overall plan for the books. I felt like many authors Terry Goodkind did a good job of peeling back the layers to expose more and more of the world. I just think it got a little to complex and tried juggling too much.
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I feel like it started to lose its way near the end. Which is weird. I felt like there was an overall plan for the books. I felt like many authors Terry Goodkind did a good job of peeling back the layers to expose more and more of the world. I just think it got a little to complex and tried juggling too much.
A good author should know when to stop.. It can go on too long leave too many loose ends.. A well written series shouldn't take 20 800 page books to pull it off..
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Side note: It is obvious that Alfred was aware of the creation of Demonreach which begs the question if he was a genus loci that was present before the prison was formed and he adapted/changed with the formation of the prison or if he was specifically created/formed by Merlin during the creation of the prison to be its Guard.
I believe Merlin built the Guardian magic atop the (pre-existing) Genus Loci spirit.
I know of no WoJ specifying/clarifying this issue... not really even any hints, alas!
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Just you wait, it's only a matter of time until Harry defeats communism by making a giant statue of himself and butchers the evil pacifists.
What about the chickens who personify “evil”?
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What about the chickens who personify “evil”?
Yeah, everyone thinks chickens are pretty benign, scratching and clucking away peacefully, occasionally laying an egg.. However they do peck on one another, if they create a wound, they will gang up on the wounded one and peck at it till it dies...
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I believe Merlin built the Guardian magic atop the (pre-existing) Genus Loci spirit.
I know of no WoJ specifying/clarifying this issue... not really even any hints, alas!
I agree with that perspective. A confluence of ley lines should be enough to generate a Genus Loci spirit. I would hazard to guess that the creation of Demonreach and resulting power contained there would have a corrupting influence on a spirit over time. Therefore, I hypothesize that Merlin altered/bargained with/molded the original genus loci into Alfred in order to make sure it would not be corrupted and could fulfill its role as the Guardian.
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I always figured that Harry was a direct descendant of merlin. We know that Ebenezer's journals go back to merlin what if the journals are passed though a family but wizards being wizards no one realizes that they were all related. We don't know who taught eb what if it was an estranged parent. Ebenezer had to learn it from someone and acts like it's the only way to protect his family
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... A confluence of ley lines should be enough to generate a Genus Loci spirit ...
I'm pretty sure the prisoners in the well are the origin of the ley-line confluence; it's all radiating-out from them, rather than outside lines randomly "just happening" to cross there.
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I'm pretty sure the prisoners in the well are the origin of the ley-line confluence; it's all radiating-out from them, rather than outside lines randomly "just happening" to cross there.
Maybe. In Small Favor Captain Luccio states that a ley line runs right through the island and that it could be used to power a "greater circle" to trap the Archive. That means that ley lines in and of themselves throw off enough power and given enough time and some additional events a genus loci could develop. I interpret Harry's talk with Alfred in Cold Days to mean that the prisoners are creating a well of energy (referred to as the body heat they throw off) that supercharges the ley line that is already present.
All that being said, as I am typing this, I realize that this prison was established by Merlin in the beginning days of the White Council. The White Council mapped the ley lines. It is possible that the prisoners are the original source of the ley line. Merlin could have created the prison and the ley line developed as the prisoners were added or he could have created the prison on top of an existing ley line and the prisoners supercharged it with their body heat.
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I always figured that Harry was a direct descendant of merlin. We know that Ebenezer's journals go back to merlin what if the journals are passed though a family but wizards being wizards no one realizes that they were all related. We don't know who taught eb what if it was an estranged parent. Ebenezer had to learn it from someone and acts like it's the only way to protect his family
Yeah, but if Merlin left any blood descendants at all, by now there would almost certainly be Merlinian blood in half the population.
Genealogy is funny that way, it's amazing how fast one person's descent lines spread out. It's like Michael being descended from royalty. Sure, but so is almost everyone else. I have little doubt that I am descended from some of the Roman Emperors, for ex. So is everyone else, to a first approximation.
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Yeah, but if Merlin left any blood descendants at all, by now there would almost certainly be Merlinian blood in half the population.
Genealogy is funny that way, it's amazing how fast one person's descent lines spread out. It's like Michael being descended from royalty. Sure, but so is almost everyone else. I have little doubt that I am descended from some of the Roman Emperors, for ex. So is everyone else, to a first approximation.
Six degrees from Kevin Bacon, but insert Merlin instead.
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What if Merlin is a Mantle? And no not like the title in the White Council.... though in thinking that, maybe Merlin is a Mantle that was forgotten (on purpose or by accident) but though lore/history the White Councile adopted it a title.
I think The Merlin might include a mantle, and it might have originated with the og Merlin, I don't think future Harry is Merlin
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Yeah, but if Merlin left any blood descendants at all, by now there would almost certainly be Merlinian blood in half the population.
Genealogy is funny that way...
Not all bloodlines do; some don't reproduce well, they just... dwindle, and end.
I'm pretty sure the Archive bloodline has major mojo associated that ensures there's always one daughter -- but never more than one -- to receive the Archive itself when the prior holder dies.
I'd be unsurprised to learn that there was some weirdness around Merlin's bloodline; but it could equally-well be some working where the OG Merlin made sure that literally everybody in the world was his descendant (maybe his blood had some uber-Starborn world-protection properties... or maybe he was just terribly egocentric that way); or maybe he ensured that he had no descendants, because his bloodline was too dangerous.
I don't think we've seen either canonical in-universe nor WoJ on the matter; only that Eb (and thus Harry) are in the Merlin's Master-to-Apprentice teaching lineage.