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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: SerScot on March 11, 2025, 10:09:29 PM
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Didn’t Molly mention having significant financial resources as Winter Lady… as such… and because it would make Harry more effective and efficient as Winter Knight shouldn’t Harry ask Mab about a salary or financial resources available to him as Winter Knight?
Any other questions Harry should address to Mab?
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Didn’t Molly mention having significant financial resources as Winter Lady… as such… and because it would make Harry more effective and efficient as Winter Knight shouldn’t Harry ask Mab about a salary or financial resources available to him as Winter Knight?
Any other questions Harry should address to Mab?
I think it was mentioned in Skin Game by Harry that while Mab and the Winter Court gives Molly more than ample money for her needs, they do not pay the Winter Knight. Not sure if it is custom or a rule, the first he could negotiate, the second, not..
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Jim has directly addressed this if I remember correctly. Harry asked for and got the ability to save Maggie. He gets strength as the Winter Knight, Lea's temporary help to get Maggie out, and the continuing ability to walk. If Harry asked for a salary, I could Mab saying something "To people paralyzed like you actually are, the ability to walk would be priceless. This is your salary."
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... because it would make Harry more effective and efficient as Winter Knight shouldn’t Harry ask Mab about a salary or financial resources available to him as Winter Knight? ...
Jim has directly addressed this if I remember correctly. Harry asked for and got the ability to save Maggie ...
Yeah, this.
Harry gets everything he bargained for there under the stars, at the Stone Table.
Everything.
And not a single bit more.
(except a tiny bit here or there, as he manages to leverage new points by virtue of being the Winter Knight and having understanding of Faerie Law and Winter Law (e.g. Mab was annoyed with him for summoning her to Judgement in Talvi Inverno's office, but it was a correct use of Winter Law by the Winter Knight; so she was compelled to do it). salary is nowhere in this. )
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Didn’t Molly mention having significant financial resources as Winter Lady …
Molly does have significant financial resources.
I'm not _at all_ clear that she didn't earn those herself. I rather suspect she did not inherit any "Winter Lady Wealth" per se.
She gets the asset of Arctis Minor (which sits in the Nevernever, and she cannot sell), and she gets the powers of the Winter Lady's Mantle.
But a smart girl like Molly can leverage these things to an incredible degree. I expect she could have become a multi-millionaire within a month of Mab releasing her from whatever "basic training" she had imposed.
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But a smart girl like Molly can leverage these things to an incredible degree. I expect she could have become a multi-millionaire within a month of Mab releasing her from whatever "basic training" she had imposed.
I imagine she already is..
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In “The Law” Harry mentions how he only has funds to run the Castle for 18 months… that must be his Skin Game loot. At some point Harry’s constant money problems are just ridiculous. Can our Author not just addess that?
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In “The Law” Harry mentions how he only has funds to run the Castle for 18 months… that must be his Skin Game loot. At some point Harry’s constant money problems are just ridiculous. Can our Author not just addess that?
It's like the RPG problem, where the Dungeon Master has accidentally given the players too much loot.
Now Harry has a much higher cost of living!
I think this cash-crunch issue is one Jim is reluctant to give up... It's one of the tropes of the genre.
I'm not sure Jim has really thought this through, however: Harry's going to need to elevate his P.I. clientele WAY above the usual DF fare, if he's to make his (new) Rent. ;) Taxes & operating costs for the castle are WAY more than Mrs. Spunkelcrief ever charged him! Cheap-o & semi-pro-bono work (as in The Law) just ain't gonna cut it anymore.
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It's like the RPG problem, where the Dungeon Master has accidentally given the players too much loot.
Now Harry has a much higher cost of living!
I think this cash-crunch issue is one Jim is reluctant to give up... It's one of the tropes of the genre.
I'm not sure Jim has really thought this through, however: Harry's going to need to elevate his P.I. clientele WAY above the usual DF fare, if he's to make his (new) Rent. ;) Taxes & operating costs for the castle are WAY more than Mrs. Spunkelcrief ever charged him! Cheap-o & semi-pro-bono work (as in The Law) just ain't gonna cut it anymore.
Unless this being Chicago, Marcone already had a deal with City Hall to keep the taxes down way further than you'd think it would be. My father in law used to own commercial property in Chicago, and after he died my brothers in law and sister in law along with my husband were in dismay of the taxes.. In waltzed a handy dandy tax lawyer, for a price, though I don't understand or remember the details, the taxes were reduced..If that kind of agreement came with the deed to the property, things in terms of taxes anyway, Harry's tax liability might not be as bad as you'd think.
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Unless this being Chicago, Marcone already had a deal with City Hall to keep the taxes down way further than you'd think it would be. My father in law used to own commercial property in Chicago, and after he died my brothers in law and sister in law along with my husband were in dismay of the taxes.. In waltzed a handy dandy tax lawyer, for a price, though I don't understand or remember the details, the taxes were reduced..If that kind of agreement came with the deed to the property, things in terms of taxes anyway, Harry's tax liability might not be as bad as you'd think.
Even if the taxes were reduced to zero, the sheer cost of keeping the power on, the garbage service running, etc, is gonna be huge.
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Even if the taxes were reduced to zero, the sheer cost of keeping the power on, the garbage service running, etc, is gonna be huge.
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That's true, and will be a problem. However if you remember Harry used to heat his apartment with a fireplace and take cold showers even in Chicago winters... So discomfort I don't think bothers him much, and those living rent free will have either put up with it or move out. Some by now might be paying rent or have moved out, he will still have to deal with recycling pizza boxes etc..
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In “The Law” Harry mentions how he only has funds to run the Castle for 18 months… that must be his Skin Game loot. At some point Harry’s constant money problems are just ridiculous. Can our Author not just addess that?
I'm pretty sure the Author has no wish to do so.
Money is power. If Harry has access to lots of cash on a regular basis, his life gets easier, his options more extensive, it gets harder to wrap him in plot difficulties.
Remember back in Turn Coat: Harry was hiding Morgan from the Council and almost everyone else, but he had only a handful of places he could use. Luckily for him, most of the people hunting him were used to having lots of resources and didn't fully grasp how limited Harry's options were.
Binder did get it, and he actually said at one point "Money never gets it." Binder is working class background and he understood exactly why Harry was doing things they way he did them.
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I'm pretty sure the Author has no wish to do so.
Money is power. If Harry has access to lots of cash on a regular basis, his life gets easier, his options more extensive, it gets harder to wrap him in plot difficulties.
Remember back in Turn Coat: Harry was hiding Morgan from the Council and almost everyone else, but he had only a handful of places he could use. Luckily for him, most of the people hunting him were used to having lots of resources and didn't fully grasp how limited Harry's options were.
Binder did get it, and he actually said at one point "Money never gets it." Binder is working class background and he understood exactly why Harry was doing things they way he did them.
I agree with SerScot, time for that aspect of the story to move on. Harry living hand to mouth is getting old, and frankly a waste of page space when so much else is going on. And yes, most people will tell you that there is never enough money. If push comes to shove his Winter Lady, Molly could help him out a bit, she did after all supply him with a nice apartment for a time until Thomas ruined it for him. If he does marry Lara, it will also be solved since she has plenty of money for the both of them and more. However that may not be a price that he is willing to pay.
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Didn’t Molly mention having significant financial resources as Winter Lady… as such… and because it would make Harry more effective and efficient as Winter Knight shouldn’t Harry ask Mab about a salary or financial resources available to him as Winter Knight?
Any other questions Harry should address to Mab?
There was a WOJ about this. Harry has been paid with power. If he wants a paycheck, then he has to be on the clock working for Winter. He's just on call as a troubleshooter right now.
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I think Harry will have come into some more money by now to his sorrow. Murphy may have left her worldly goods to him in her Will, which also included at least one sock full of diamonds. This might also be one of Mab's motives for the union between Harry and Lara, she has enough money for the two of them.
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I think Harry will have come into some more money by now to his sorrow. Murphy may have left her worldly goods to him in her Will, which also included at least one sock full of diamonds...
ROFL!
I now imagine a small heavy box left for Harry, labeled "gotcha!"
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Yeah, this.
Harry gets everything he bargained for there under the stars, at the Stone Table.
Everything.
And not a single bit more.
(except a tiny bit here or there, as he manages to leverage new points by virtue of being the Winter Knight and having understanding of Faerie Law and Winter Law (e.g. Mab was annoyed with him for summoning her to Judgement in Talvi Inverno's office, but it was a correct use of Winter Law by the Winter Knight; so she was compelled to do it). salary is nowhere in this. )
Harry has a history of not being complete with his bargains (ie the Magic Feather with Lea). Granted, he is under pressure most of the time when he makes bargains. He got everything he asked for at the Stone Table. He was already planning on weaseling out of it so he did not take the time to find out more about what the job entails or the resources he could use to do the job. He could have asked for more.
I'm pretty sure the Author has no wish to do so.
Money is power. If Harry has access to lots of cash on a regular basis, his life gets easier, his options more extensive, it gets harder to wrap him in plot difficulties.
Remember back in Turn Coat: Harry was hiding Morgan from the Council and almost everyone else, but he had only a handful of places he could use. Luckily for him, most of the people hunting him were used to having lots of resources and didn't fully grasp how limited Harry's options were.
Binder did get it, and he actually said at one point "Money never gets it." Binder is working class background and he understood exactly why Harry was doing things they way he did them.
There is a WOJ about how much Harry can do and how much equipment he can maintain given his time and financial constraints. That is one of the things that keeps him a medium sized fish in the pond who occasionally gets a lucky shot in against the bigger fish. If you give him unlimited resources that will allow him to level up to quickly which is at odds with who he is and his growth up to this point. I give it 50/50 odds that if he had access to that much money he would just blow it all on worthy causes instead of using it for himself.
I think Harry will have come into some more money by now to his sorrow. Murphy may have left her worldly goods to him in her Will, which also included at least one sock full of diamonds. This might also be one of Mab's motives for the union between Harry and Lara, she has enough money for the two of them.
I believe that motive to be really far down on the list. If Mab wanted Harry to have money she would just give him money. There is no need to be that circumspect when resources are not a problem for Mab.
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I believe that motive to be really far down on the list. If Mab wanted Harry to have money she would just give him money. There is no need to be that circumspect when resources are not a problem for Mab.
Agreed, unless there is a rule against the Winter Knight getting a salary from his Queen. Remember before the battle, Molly was buying a house close to her parents to further protect them and she loaned Harry her old place because he was homeless. I seem to remember that there was a rule against him being paid, because Mab could have given him money then and didn't. Unless Harry just doesn't want to be in Mab's debt anymore than he has to be so refuses a salary.
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Agreed, unless there is a rule against the Winter Knight getting a salary from his Queen. Remember before the battle, Molly was buying a house close to her parents to further protect them and she loaned Harry her old place because he was homeless. I seem to remember that there was a rule against him being paid, because Mab could have given him money then and didn't. Unless Harry just doesn't want to be in Mab's debt anymore than he has to be so refuses a salary.
I could see Harry being leery of getting anything from Mab and going further into debt. I could also see Mab having the viewpoint of the Knight being disposable and thus not worth any extra resources.
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Agreed, unless there is a rule against the Winter Knight getting a salary from his Queen
... I seem to remember that there was a rule against him being paid, because Mab could have given him money then and didn't. Unless Harry just doesn't want to be in Mab's debt anymore than he has to be so refuses a salary.
I don't think there's any "rule against" salary, no.
If Harry had included a cash stipend in his negotiation, I don't think Mab would have blinked or balked.
But there is now a rule against Harry being paid: he didn't bargain for it... and Mab fulfills her bargains with surgical precision, and zero charity.
... Remember before the battle, Molly was buying a house close to her parents to further protect them and she loaned Harry her old place because he was homeless ...
I think Harry is morally/philosophically opposed to leveraging his power too-directly for wealth; it's a really easy line to cross, with a huge morally-grey area.
I suspect this is a too-strict interpretation of the anti-warlock values that Ebenezer instilled.
Molly has no such inhibitions. She owns a luxurious condo in an ultra-secure enclave, paid for with magical service.
I don't doubt she has used her waywalking & veils & so forth to make her own wealth, independent of the Winter Court.
Like... in her "Ragged Lady" phase, she likely learned a bunch about the criminal underworld of Chicago. Returning to it as the Winter Lady, she could just walk into a drug-deal under a Veil, put everyone to sleep, and walk out with all the cash; or something similar in other places, where she doesn't bump against Marcone (but I suspect that during the Fomor build-up, his hold over all those street-deals was much weaker: killing one of those non-Marcone deals might actually put Marcone in Molly's debt!).
Or just use a Way to courier some high-value deliveries with unmatchable-by-mundanes speed & security.
Or Veil into some top-tier business negotiations, and leverage that knowledge in the stock market.
etc etc etc.
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I don't think there's any "rule against" salary, no.
If Harry had included a cash stipend in his negotiation, I don't think Mab would have blinked or balked.
But there is now a rule against Harry being paid: he didn't bargain for it... and Mab fulfills her bargains with surgical precision, and zero charity.
No, Harry didn't bargain for himself, he offered himself so his daughter would live. Then when he woke up at the end of Ghost Story he made it clear to Mab that while he'd do her bidding as far as he could but that he was and will remain his own man. Mab wants that because that gives her a good effective Knight. That was the bargain, being well off or secure financially was furthest from his mind at that point because he had never been well off financially or secure.. Now with children to think about and others his outlook is different.
Molly has no such inhibitions. She owns a luxurious condo in an ultra-secure enclave, paid for with magical service.
She never had any inhibitions of that type that's what got her into trouble in the first place. Molly was always rebellious, long before she discovered her talent.. Remember her going up to the tree house and removing make up and putting her school uniform back on when she came home from school? No, she is more like Charity was than Michael is.
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Mab has solved Harry's castle financial problems already: she engaged him to Lara. Lara has plenty of resources including cash and lawyers to help him out. From Mab's perspective, Harry can get on board with her solution or come up with another one.
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Mab has solved Harry's castle financial problems already: she engaged him to Lara. Lara has plenty of resources including cash and lawyers to help him out. From Mab's perspective, Harry can get on board with her solution or come up with another one.
Would Harry be ok with that? I can see him having a hard time with using ill gotten gains or going into debt with the White Court.
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Mab doesn't care.
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Mab doesn't care.
Mab doesn't care what Harry thinks, but Harry also doesn't particularly care what Mab thinks unless it touches upon his family or friends. Mab may have set it up that he has access to non-Winter Court resources, but that does not mean that Harry has to use the resources if he objects to the source.
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I think it just makes for a better story that Harry always seems to be struggling financially.
It means he has to be more creative in problem solving and recruiting allies etc.
Considering he now lives in a top of the line, all the bells and whistles, castle courtesy of Marcone.
If he also had practically unlimited funds he would be a far less sympathetic or relatable character.
Whatever the problem, friends in trouble, need some hired help, run a castle, research...Just throw money at it.
It would become boring quickly.
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I think it just makes for a better story that Harry always seems to be struggling financially.
It means he has to be more creative in problem solving and recruiting allies etc.
Considering he now lives in a top of the line, all the bells and whistles, castle courtesy of Marcone.
If he also had practically unlimited funds he would be a far less sympathetic or relatable character.
Whatever the problem, friends in trouble, need some hired help, run a castle, research...Just throw money at it.
It would become boring quickly.
I think Harry being broke all of the time can also get old after a bit. I think a happy medium can be struck, between Harry having so much money he can just throw it at any problem, and Harry having no money at all. I don't think no matter how much he has I don't think we'd see Harry just throw money at them. We all know many of the problems Harry faces money isn't going to help at all anyway. I would like to see him have enough money for housekeeping, (including little Maggie expenses), taxes, and keeping Toot and Za'Gard in pizza.. He really doesn't need more than that.
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I think Harry being broke all of the time can also get old after a bit. I think a happy medium can be struck, between Harry having so much money he can just throw it at any problem, and Harry having no money at all. I don't think no matter how much he has I don't think we'd see Harry just throw money at them. We all know many of the problems Harry faces money isn't going to help at all anyway. I would like to see him have enough money for housekeeping, (including little Maggie expenses), taxes, and keeping Toot and Za'Gard in pizza.. He really doesn't need more than that.
I think the Harry in Proven Guilty was hitting a good spot. Still was tight with financial issues, but was able to do some cool stuff on the side like Little Chicago. He did not have unlimited resources that he could throw at any problem, but he had enough that he could choose something cool to devote some resources to.
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I think Harry being broke all of the time can also get old after a bit...
It's worth noting that the "financial struggles" theme is pretty endemic to the "noir detective" genre that was foundational to the Dresden Files. Also, it has been narratively-useful as a way to get Harry involved when his "common sense" suggested he not do so.
On the other hand, he's working directly for a superpower these days. I think a good argument can be made that we're no longer within the "Noir Detective" genre (even as a fantasy mashup). Mind you, his sponsoring "superpower" is a remarkably-stingy one, so I think he'll remain short of ready cash in his daily life... even as he owns a castle in Chicago, and a hidden island in Lake Michigan, like some billionaire supervillain would.
Burger King & IHOP (and Pizza 'Spress) will be his "splurge" foods, unless he solves some magical problem for a high-end chef who gives him "always eat here free" privileges as a reward.
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Where we are in the series should also effect how strapped Harry is for cash. He's going to have a lot bigger fish to fry and (narratively speaking) having to run back down to put quarters in the meter or have the Blue Beetle towed becomes more distracting than amusing.
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Burger King & IHOP (and Pizza 'Spress) will be his "splurge" foods, unless he solves some magical problem for a high-end chef who gives him "always eat here free" privileges as a reward.
I agree with the exception of Pizza'Spress, Harry's fairy army flies on it's stomach, quality pizza in this case isn't an indulgence, he has to keep his troops well fed!
Molly didn't bargain for her pay check or any support she gets from the Winter Court, that came with the mantel that she had no say in getting. It's possible that Harry may have been able to bargain for a good pay check, but at the time he was in no position to bargain at all. Unless the Lady cannot bargain on her own, I don't see why Molly with her seemingly unlimited resources cannot set up her former master and friend so he can be financially solvent, not rich maybe but able to support those he has to support.
There is evidence that she can bargain since Harry did ask and got a favor from her in Peace Talks when she made that ring for him so he could create a double of himself to fool Eb.
I think the Harry in Proven Guilty was hitting a good spot. Still was tight with financial issues, but was able to do some cool stuff on the side like Little Chicago. He did not have unlimited resources that he could throw at any problem, but he had enough that he could choose something cool to devote some resources to.
Yes, that is the happy medium I am talking about, Harry isn't rich, he cannot throw money at things and make them go away. But he is treading water and getting along like a lot of us do, money isn't his focus, he has more important things to attend to. And if Mab is as smart as she claims to be she will understand that a solvent Winter Knight is a more effective Winter Knight and she will increase his pay check if he gets one from her.
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Yes, that is the happy medium I am talking about, Harry isn't rich, he cannot throw money at things and make them go away. But he is treading water and getting along like a lot of us do, money isn't his focus, he has more important things to attend to. And if Mab is as smart as she claims to be she will understand that a solvent Winter Knight is a more effective Winter Knight and she will increase his pay check if he gets one from her.
Mab may have to have it pointed out to her, but I think she will see the logic of the Winter Knight being more effective if he is not having to worry about some basic necessities. That being said, in order to keep Harry on a leash, I can see her working on a requisition format where he has to ask for what he needs.
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You do not want to see the reimbursement forms required by the Winter Court accounting department.
Mab may have to have it pointed out to her, but I think she will see the logic of the Winter Knight being more effective if he is not having to worry about some basic necessities. That being said, in order to keep Harry on a leash, I can see her working on a requisition format where he has to ask for what he needs.
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You do not want to see the reimbursement forms required by the Winter Court accounting department.
Could it be worse than the White Council? I seem to remember Rashid telling Harry he has no idea what a favor Rachid did for him vouching that he was still alive and filling out all those forms,to prove it.. ::)
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You do not want to see the reimbursement forms required by the Winter Court accounting department.
Considering the author said that for Mac to get the bar Accorded Neutral Ground it was a minor quest in and of itself.....
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... It's possible that Harry may have been able to bargain for a good pay check, but at the time he was in no position to bargain at all ...
And yet, bargain he did.
He just didn't care enough about cashflow to include it into the bargain.
... Unless the Lady cannot bargain on her own, I don't see why Molly with her seemingly unlimited resources cannot set up her former master and friend so he can be financially solvent, not rich maybe but able to support those he has to support.
"Molly" could maybe do so.
The "Winter Lady" must do all such transactions as bargains, as you yourself pointed out:
... There is evidence that she can bargain since Harry did ask and got a favor from her in Peace Talks when she made that ring for him so he could create a double of himself to fool Eb.
Just so.
... And if Mab is as smart as she claims to be she will understand that a solvent Winter Knight is a more effective Winter Knight and she will increase his pay check if he gets one from her.
I'm pretty sure Mab feels that her WK already has all the resources he needs, to do the job. And if Dresden is too stupid or weak-willed or squeamish to leverage the resources she's already given him, it's not Mab's job to make his life any easier.
Remember, Mab's the girl who picked the 2nd-most powerful faerie to be her "close enemy" in order that she, Mab, could keep herself keenly sharpened for the war.
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And yet, bargain he did.
He just didn't care enough about cashflow to include it into the bargain.
Really? I am not saying that you are wrong here, no he didn't care.. However you make it sound like it wasn't important to him. It is important to him, but at that moment in time, it was WAY down on his list of priorities. His back was broken, his little girl about to be sacrificed, he and his grandfather about to be killed in a generational spell, so yeah, he didn't care, why? Because if he didn't survive a 401 K from Mab wasn't going to do him much good!
"Molly" could maybe do so.
The "Winter Lady" must do all such transactions as bargains, as you yourself pointed out:
The interesting point is why hasn't she? I got the sense from Peace Talks that Molly doesn't like bargains, especially in the case of Harry. It maybe because she feels the only reason she is alive is because of him, or because she loves him, but I don't think she wants him to be indebted to her anymore than absolutely necessary. Or she has observed how Mab uses it to wield power over others and she doesn't agree with it.
I'm pretty sure Mab feels that her WK already has all the resources he needs, to do the job. And if Dresden is too stupid or weak-willed or squeamish to leverage the resources she's already given him, it's not Mab's job to make his life any easier.
Or perhaps doesn't understand? Mab maybe too removed from the human perspective to understand. Remember there are a lot of things the Fae don't understand about how humans think.
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Could it be worse than the White Council? I seem to remember Rashid telling Harry he has no idea what a favor Rachid did for him vouching that he was still alive and filling out all those forms,to prove it.. ::)
Of course it's worse, it's Mab. The process is sharply pointed and makes your blood run cold.
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Of course it's worse, it's Mab. The process is sharply pointed and makes your blood run cold.
Mab is bad true, but a bureaucracy of wizards might be worse.. ;)
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Or perhaps doesn't understand? Mab maybe too removed from the human perspective to understand. Remember there are a lot of things the Fae don't understand about how humans think.
Mab may be removed from the human perspective, but she will grab onto any weapon she can in order to achieve her goals. Money is one of those resources that she can use to further her own ends in the mortal world. There is a reason Molly's account has so many zeros in it. Mab sees that value in money, she just doesn't amass it to be rich for rich's sake. She absolutely could be operating under the principle that she provides the knight the basic tools and it is up to him to gather what he needs.
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[quote author=Mira link=topic=55175.msg2363626#msg2363626 date=1746876863
Or perhaps doesn't understand? Mab maybe too removed from the human perspective to understand. Remember there are a lot of things the Fae don't understand about how humans think.
Mab may be removed from the human perspective, but she will grab onto any weapon she can in order to achieve her goals. Money is one of those resources that she can use to further her own ends in the mortal world. There is a reason Molly's account has so many zeros in it. Mab sees that value in money, she just doesn't amass it to be rich for rich's sake. She absolutely could be operating under the principle that she provides the knight the basic tools and it is up to him to gather what he needs.
At the same time she must feel that Harry isn't subject to bribes.. Also one wonders if her Knight would be as effective as she'd like if he has to scrounge for money to keep his home and family together? Again, you'd think that Molly would supplement his income, unless there is a reason why Knights do not get a salary for what they do.
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At the same time she must feel that Harry isn't subject to bribes.. Also one wonders if her Knight would be as effective as she'd like if he has to scrounge for money to keep his home and family together? Again, you'd think that Molly would supplement his income, unless there is a reason why Knights do not get a salary for what they do.
Molly the friend may want to supplement his income, but Molly the Winter Lady would be bound by Mab's will in the matter. If Mab doesn't think Harry needs more resources than he is not getting more resources without bartering for them like he did with Molly in Peace Talks.
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Molly the friend may want to supplement his income, but Molly the Winter Lady would be bound by Mab's will in the matter. If Mab doesn't think Harry needs more resources than he is not getting more resources without bartering for them like he did with Molly in Peace Talks.
However it does demonstrate that Molly can bargain on her own. She never consulted with Mab before she made that ring for Harry in Peace Talks.. That bargain made Harry obligated to Molly, not Mab for whatever favor Molly requires, so very possible that Harry could bargain with Molly for a pay raise. I don't think that is the issue, I don't think Harry wants to be forced to pay back favors anymore than he has to. Remember it was frightened 16 year old Harry that made a bargain with Lea that got him in this jam in the first place leading to him becoming Winter Knight years later, something he'd rather not be.
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However it does demonstrate that Molly can bargain on her own. She never consulted with Mab before she made that ring for Harry in Peace Talks.. That bargain made Harry obligated to Molly, not Mab for whatever favor Molly requires, so very possible that Harry could bargain with Molly for a pay raise. I don't think that is the issue, I don't think Harry wants to be forced to pay back favors anymore than he has to. Remember it was frightened 16 year old Harry that made a bargain with Lea that got him in this jam in the first place leading to him becoming Winter Knight years later, something he'd rather not be.
I agree that Harry does not want to get any deeper into obligation than he already is. He could barter with Molly for resources unless Mab laid down Winter Law preventing specific resources from being bartered for.
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Mab may have to have it pointed out to her, but I think she will see the logic of the Winter Knight being more effective if he is not having to worry about some basic necessities. That being said, in order to keep Harry on a leash, I can see her working on a requisition format where he has to ask for what he needs.
From Mab perspective The WK doesn't need an income
Not to get political but....
How much money do politicians get paid any politician world wide not just your country, and how much money do they have. Even the countries with low corruption. Any politician from any political party gains wealth.
Not giving the WK wealth might be a feature not a bug. The WK has to shaped his mind, and bargaining skills .
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From Mab perspective The WK doesn't need an income
Not to get political but....
How much money do politicians get paid any politician world wide not just your country, and how much money do they have. Even the countries with low corruption. Any politician from any political party gains wealth.
Not giving the WK wealth might be a feature not a bug. The WK has to shaped his mind, and bargaining skills .
The question then becomes, can and does Harry renegotiate his contract? He has cause because the first time around wasn't really a renegotiation, it was under duress and he was sure he was going to be killed after little Maggie was saved. I think the bigger question is would Mab renegotiate? Or does Harry want to because he doesn't want to owe her anymore than he already does.
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there is an obligation between WK and Queen, WK and lady , WK and mother. Its not Mab fault that her WK cant / wont negotiate for better treatment.
Im sure the is a WK expense account that harry will be shocked to find out about once he no longer needs money
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there is an obligation between WK and Queen, WK and lady , WK and mother. Its not Mab fault that her WK cant / wont negotiate for better treatment.
Im sure the is a WK expense account that harry will be shocked to find out about once he no longer needs money
It's possible, however I don't remember Slate exactly living high off the hog either.
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The question then becomes, can and does Harry renegotiate his contract? He has cause because the first time around wasn't really a renegotiation, it was under duress and he was sure he was going to be killed after little Maggie was saved. I think the bigger question is would Mab renegotiate? Or does Harry want to because he doesn't want to owe her anymore than he already does.
He already renegotiated his contract in a sense. After he did the whole ghost thing and found out that his attempt to kill himself failed, he told Mab that he is not going to obey her blindly and he will fulfill his jobs the way he thinks they should be done. If she couldn't work with that then he would force her to get rid of him by obeying her tasks to the letter, but showing no initiative.
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He already renegotiated his contract in a sense. After he did the whole ghost thing and found out that his attempt to kill himself failed, he told Mab that he is not going to obey her blindly and he will fulfill his jobs the way he thinks they should be done. If she couldn't work with that then he would force her to get rid of him by obeying her tasks to the letter, but showing no initiative.
I still think, and I have to go through the short stories that there is a rule that Harry can't negotiate for cash.. Then again I most likely dreamed it.. ::)
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It's possible, however I don't remember Slate exactly living high off the hog either.
I don't know that we ever saw enough of Slate's own life to say either way.
We do know that the former Summer Knight had a job as, IIRC, some sort of fantasy illustrator or artist. For what that's worth.
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I don't know that we ever saw enough of Slate's own life to say either way.
We do know that the former Summer Knight had a job as, IIRC, some sort of fantasy illustrator or artist. For what that's worth.
Which suggests for whatever reason, Knights of either Court are not given huge pay checks. One explanation for it could be that while they do carry a mantle, Knights remain mortals. As mortals the Courts may not want life style to draw attention to them, because they are vulnerable. As you point out in Summer Knight, the Summer Knight had a day job, and was murdered because it was known who he was.