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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: groinkick on September 19, 2021, 04:36:44 AM
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Harry makes lots of mistakes but I'm looking for what you think are big critical ones that will return some how in future books. Here are some of mine.
1. Handing over the Book of Kemmler to Mavra. She was blackmailing him, but was protecting a friend from her career getting ruined worth handing over a book like that to a monster? I don't think so, and I imagine it's going to come up again.
2. Staking claim to Demon Reach. This was a really big move, and it seems to have worked out well for him. That being said, Jim said "He's going to wish he never stepped foot on that Island". So I imagine it was a bad move.
3. Splitting up Bob. Seemed like a good idea, but I think Evil Bob is out there, allied with who knows who. He had access to horrible knowledge. Can't imagine that will end well.
4. Killing the entire Red Court. Some of that may be becoming apparent already with the Fomor. I'm wondering if Harry will realize he had another option, and the one he chose was the wrong one. As a wizard I'm wondering if he could have worked out a spell, and used that source of power for something else, rather than sacrifice Susan and wipe out out the Red's.
Just some off the top of my head. Can you think of some critical decisions he made that may have appeared right but will return to haunt him later?
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1. Handing over the Book of Kemmler to Mavra. She was blackmailing him, but was protecting a friend from her career getting ruined worth handing over a book like that to a monster? I don't think so, and I imagine it's going to come up again.
Already did, the book allowed her to cozy up to Drakul big time and recruit some Wardens into her service. Further cemented what ever Carlos thinks he suspects Harry is up to, because he holds Harry responsible. On the other hand, blackmail is never as simple as it appears to be, otherwise it wouldn't be such an effective dirty weapon
2. Staking claim to Demon Reach. This was a really big move, and it seems to have worked out well for him. That being said, Jim said "He's going to wish he never stepped foot on that Island". So I imagine it was a bad move.
Bet he already wishes that, on one hand he was able to save Thomas's life by imprisoning him there. However if he may never be able to ever let him out again. It appears up to this point anyway that the only sentences Alfred hands down are life sentences. I think Harry is going to find that hard to live with.
3. Splitting up Bob. Seemed like a good idea, but I think Evil Bob is out there, allied with who knows who. He had access to horrible knowledge. Can't imagine that will end well.
That was a result, not a conscious choice I think.. Harry was more like Pandora, he needed information about a time in Bob's life when he served the ultimate evil wizard. Bob begged him
not to do it if I remember correctly but couldn't or wouldn't explain why. Once called up, Evil Bob nearly killed Harry, Evil Bob was suppressed once more, but this time was able to splinter off. Yeah,
bad news, but like in the myth Pandora also released "Hope" when she released all the trouble on the earth, Good Bob was also returned to serve.
4. Killing the entire Red Court. Some of that may be becoming apparent already with the Fomor. I'm wondering if Harry will realize he had another option, and the one he chose was the wrong one. As a wizard I'm wondering if he could have worked out a spell, and used that source of power for something else, rather than sacrifice Susan and wipe out out the Red's.
I don't think Harry had any good options in this case because the spell that he reversed that ended in the demise of the Red Court would have ended in his own demise and that of his child and Eb and most likely Thomas. The only possible one I can think of is if he had found a way to kill the Red King before he killed little Maggie.. It looked like at that point anyway that that wasn't going to happen, even though Harry was backed by some real heavy weights.
Just some off the top of my head. Can you think of some critical decisions he made that may have appeared right but will return to haunt him later?
His night of unprotected sex with Susan that resulted in the birth of little Maggie. True, he got a beautiful daughter but see regret number 4, for the consequence of that little act.
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I think giving Bob to Butters.
Bob's metaphysical mass is knowledge driven, giving him broadband allows access to the same kind of power explision the Archive has undergone in the digital age.
And it is married to no human conscience or morality
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I think giving Bob to Butters.
Bob's metaphysical mass is knowledge driven, giving him broadband allows access to the same kind of power explision the Archive has undergone in the digital age.
And it is married to no human conscience or morality
I don't think he gave him to Butters so much as Butters inherited him when Harry "died." It seems like now that Butters is a Holy Knight that he gave Bob back to Harry at some point. Not sure just when, but Harry tells Molly that he is having Bob go over the castle at the end of Battle Ground. Sounds like Bob is back with him, or maybe he and Butters have worked out an arrangement to share. Remember Bob liked the amenities that Butters provided for him, the internet not old prone novels like he got when he lived with Harry.
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4. Killing the entire Red Court. Some of that may be becoming apparent already with the Fomor. I'm wondering if Harry will realize he had another option, and the one he chose was the wrong one. As a wizard I'm wondering if he could have worked out a spell, and used that source of power for something else, rather than sacrifice Susan and wipe out out the Red's.
TBF, Harry didn't sacrifice Susan. Susan sacrificed Susan to get revenge on Martin. Once Susan was gone, Harry used the blood of the new ramp to kill the Red Court.
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TBF, Harry didn't sacrifice Susan. Susan sacrificed Susan to get revenge on Martin. Once Susan was gone, Harry used the blood of the new ramp to kill the Red Court.
That's fair. However Harry didn't really offer any options either. In the heat of the moment, I completely agreed with what he did. In hindsight however it appears that may have been the wrong decision. I think a terrible blow to the Red Court (like Maggie sandbagging Lord Raith) may have been a better solution. The power vacuum was not filled by allies, but enemies.
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That's fair. However Harry didn't really offer any options either. In the heat of the moment, I completely agreed with what he did. In hindsight however it appears that may have been the wrong decision. I think a terrible blow to the Red Court (like Maggie sandbagging Lord Raith) may have been a better solution. The power vacuum was not filled by allies, but enemies.
Yeah, well in that moment in time he had no time for any other solution unless he wanted to sacrifice their child, himself, most likely Thomas, and Eb.. So mistake? Maybe, but no other alternatives..
But all of that is after the fact... His mistake was leaving that invitation to the party setting around where Susan could steal it. His mistake was thinking she wouldn't steal it. Keep Susan from crashing that party and none of that would have happened..
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Honest people assume other people are honest until they are given reason to distrust people in general or specific examples.
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TBF, Harry didn't sacrifice Susan. Susan sacrificed Susan to get revenge on Martin. Once Susan was gone, Harry used the blood of the new ramp to kill the Red Court.
Susan might have volunteered had Harry asked her. But he didn't ask. He created a weapon and then used that weapon.
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Susan might have volunteered had Harry asked her. But he didn't ask. He created a weapon and then used that weapon.
He didn't create the weapon, the only person who can take responsibility for how she ended up, is Susan... Down to her original flirtation with Harry in Storm Front. Yes, eventually she fell in love with him, but her original reasons for pursuing him was inside info for her job and fame to further her career. Harry warned her and told her why he wasn't going to that party, but in spite of what she had seen of how dangerous the supernatural world was, she stole the invitation.. There are consequences, and she paid the price.
Unprotected sex, both are the blame for that and must take responsibility.. Result of that little mistake was a child, put in danger by Susan's original mistake, and she paid the price, willingly, once she realized she had been betrayed and used by Martin, she killed him knowing it would turn her, her decision based on the new information she received. Harry did ask, as she was turning he told her, that the Red King wanted to kill Maggie because she was the youngest, to kill him,Eb, and Thomas too, now she was the youngest, and she could kill all of them... She told him to do it, she could have refused and happily be a Red Court Vamp today, if she had wanted. But she didn't want that.. No, Harry didn't create her, her own actions did that.
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Harry cut her throat. I don't see any text where he said to Susan. Is this what you want? He didn't say here's my plan. Are you all in? He primed her and aimed her at Martin and pulled the trigger on her emotionally.
This is the point where Harry becomes a monster. He is our monster but none the less a monster. He will do anything to do what it is that he wants to accomplish. Make any deal, use anyone to save his daughter. And a reasonable person might suggest that Harry meant for it to turn out this way given that he says this in Chapter Two.I spoke the next words through my teeth. “But I haven’t forgotten. Will never forget it. There will be a reckoning on that account later. Do you understand?”
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Harry cut her throat. I don't see any text where he said to Susan. Is this what you want? He didn't say here's my plan. Are you all in? He primed her and aimed her at Martin and pulled the trigger on her emotionally.
You can call it pulling the trigger on her emotionally, or you can say he showed her the truth. When she realized that Martin was pulling the double cross and her little girl was going to die because of it, it pissed her off and she proceeded to rip his throat out as most loving mothers would.
Then Harry explains to her as she is turning why the Red King wanted to kill Maggie, further explained that as the youngest vamp, she could kill all of them with her death. Susan is conflicted some as she is turning, then she looks at her daughter, she tells Harry she doesn't think she can do it.
Then she says to Harry; page 419 Changes
Susan looked back at me,her eyes streaming with tears. "Harry, help me,"she whispered. "Save her please."
At that point, there was only one way to save little Maggie, they both knew it... Yes, she was telling him to cut her throat, it was the only way.
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I think giving Bob to Butters.
Bob's metaphysical mass is knowledge driven, giving him broadband allows access to the same kind of power explision the Archive has undergone in the digital age.
And it is married to no human conscience or morality
Bob becomes the intellectus of porn, and Harry has to live with that.
“This is Bob my, uh research assistant” said Harry to the buxom young Wizard.
“And intellectus of porn” Bob added, totally killing the moment.
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I don't think he gave him to Butters so much as Butters inherited him when Harry "died." It seems like now that Butters is a Holy Knight that he gave Bob back to Harry at some point. Not sure just when, but Harry tells Molly that he is having Bob go over the castle at the end of Battle Ground. Sounds like Bob is back with him, or maybe he and Butters have worked out an arrangement to share. Remember Bob liked the amenities that Butters provided for him, the internet not old prone novels like he got when he lived with Harry.
Implication is that Bob has total recall, and knowledge translates directly into power for him- we're not just talking knowing how to throw fireballs lets him throw fireballs, how hard he throws fireballs is increased when he reads a new biology textbook. A year or two with unfettered high-speed 'Net access 24/7 when Butters doesn't need him, and Bob is now rather terrifying if you think about it. The Archive gets that upgrade axiomatically- but Bob's probably downloading as fast as he can.
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Harry makes lots of mistakes but I'm looking for what you think are big critical ones that will return some how in future books. Here are some of mine.
1. Handing over the Book of Kemmler to Mavra. She was blackmailing him, but was protecting a friend from her career getting ruined worth handing over a book like that to a monster? I don't think so, and I imagine it's going to come up again.
2. Staking claim to Demon Reach. This was a really big move, and it seems to have worked out well for him. That being said, Jim said "He's going to wish he never stepped foot on that Island". So I imagine it was a bad move.
3. Splitting up Bob. Seemed like a good idea, but I think Evil Bob is out there, allied with who knows who. He had access to horrible knowledge. Can't imagine that will end well.
4. Killing the entire Red Court. Some of that may be becoming apparent already with the Fomor. I'm wondering if Harry will realize he had another option, and the one he chose was the wrong one. As a wizard I'm wondering if he could have worked out a spell, and used that source of power for something else, rather than sacrifice Susan and wipe out out the Red's.
Just some off the top of my head. Can you think of some critical decisions he made that may have appeared right but will return to haunt him later?
Turning down Ebenezar's help after finding out he's the Blackstaff. Well, assuming that He Who Walks Behind did get summoned back like he said rather than just pretending he was to fuck with Harry.
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You can call it pulling the trigger on her emotionally, or you can say he showed her the truth. When she realized that Martin was pulling the double cross and her little girl was going to die because of it, it pissed her off and she proceeded to rip his throat out as most loving mothers would.
Then Harry explains to her as she is turning why the Red King wanted to kill Maggie, further explained that as the youngest vamp, she could kill all of them with her death. Susan is conflicted some as she is turning, then she looks at her daughter, she tells Harry she doesn't think she can do it.
Then she says to Harry; page 419 Changes
At that point, there was only one way to save little Maggie, they both knew it... Yes, she was telling him to cut her throat, it was the only way.
"One day I hope God will forgive me for giving birth to the idea that came next. Because I never will. I knew how angry she was. I knew how afraid she was. Her child was about to die only inches beyond her reach, and what I did to her was as good as murder".....
Sounds like he made a deliberate decision here. Hey could have thought of something else, but he chose this.
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"One day I hope God will forgive me for giving birth to the idea that came next. Because I never will. I knew how angry she was. I knew how afraid she was. Her child was about to die only inches beyond her reach, and what I did to her was as good as murder".....
Sounds like he made a deliberate decision here. Hey could have thought of something else, but he chose this.
Or once again it is Harry's conscience beating himself up overly, even though he did all he could at the time to save both her and their daughter. They were losing the fight, Maggie was about to die, so what did Harry do? Told Susan the truth about Martin. He may call that murder, but it wasn't, Susan still had a choice whether or not to tear Martin's throat out, she knew it would complete her change. Heck it may have happened anyway the moment Maggie's throat was cut, and there wouldn't have been anyone or anything to stop her turning.
Susan's final words..
"Help me please, save her please.." Um, at that point killing the Red King wasn't going to happen, in spite of all his efforts, their daughter's throat was about to be cut.... Once that happened, Harry was dead, Maggie was dead, Eb was dead, and Susan would be a vamp.. Another way to save their daughter? I don't think so, Holy Knights, powerful Fae, Odin, the Black Staff and others of the Grey Council fighting to stop it from happening, and they were still losing, Maggie's throat was still about to be cut by the Red King.. Also hate to get technical here, but when Harry did cut Susan's throat, she was no longer Susan, she was the youngest Red Court Vamp. So he didn't murder Susan, he murdered the youngest Red Court Vamp, if she was still Susan the spell reversal wouldn't have worked. So like we see in Christmas Eve., Harry beats himself up with woulda, shoulda, coulda, when in truth he did the best he could and it wasn't enough. Even though it was the only way to save little Maggie, and her mother was no longer a human at the point that he killed her, still hurts and will always hurt, so he beats himself up.. But did he really have another option? No, is the answer.
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Harry cut her throat. I don't see any text where he said to Susan. Is this what you want? He didn't say here's my plan. Are you all in? He primed her and aimed her at Martin and pulled the trigger on her emotionally.
This is the point where Harry becomes a monster. He is our monster but none the less a monster. He will do anything to do what it is that he wants to accomplish. Make any deal, use anyone to save his daughter. And a reasonable person might suggest that Harry meant for it to turn out this way given that he says this in Chapter Two.
Actually, Harry was feeling guilty about it and was starting to believe that he was a monster. In Skin Game, it was Michael who set him straight. That as a Red Court Vampire, Susan HAD given her consent because if she didn't, Harry would not have been able to proceed. Susan would have overpowered him. So no, Harry is not a monster and he does not believe that he's a monster. But he does work with/for them.
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In Battle Ground Harry came as close as he ever will to being a monster, that’s why Sanya and Butters were there, not to kill a monster (the Titan) but to stop the birth of a worse monster (Harry).
If Harry had gone Monster it would have doomed his time-line and the best opportunity to stop the Outsiders this cycle without the loss of far too many time lines.
I believe the White God will win each cycle, but is forced to erase doomed timelines where the Outsiders win. This means in some cycles the Multiverse is pruned back radically with untold time-lines erased in others it is relatively light. Harry’s time-line has an Infinity War Type chance of success, but success is dependent upon the exercise of Harry’s free will. The decision not to kill Murphy’s murderer may have saved untold time-lines and Trillions upon Trillions of sentient beings. The next best chance with a much higher degree of success may leave the Multiverse say 40% smaller, the next after that 45% smaller etc.
Harry’s time-line is an outlier, a fluke, a Longshot Universe, where more than 90% of the multiverse can be saved this cycle, meaning a greater probability of early success next cycle and in each successive cycle as the Multiverse generates more diverse time-lines and potential saviours.
If Harry succeeds in this Longshot Universe, the pruning may be relatively light this time, only those Universes created since Grave Peril only will be erased, which of course includes the Mirror Mirror Universe. Harry may come to understand this in Mirror Mirror, his choice not to kill may in retrospect be the best he has ever made.
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In Battle Ground Harry came as close as he ever will to being a monster, that’s why Sanya and Butters were there, not to kill a monster (the Titan) but to stop the birth of a worse monster (Harry).
I don't think killing Rudolph would have made Harry a monster. Now if the attempt had been unprovoked, coldly, and more importantly for pleasure, then he would have become a monster.
Don't get me wrong, killing Rudolph still would have been bad and when he came to himself again, something Harry would feel guilty about for the rest of his life. But in reaction to what he saw as the murder of his friend and lover? Not a monstrous act at all.
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Hope he doesn't have to kill Carlos
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I don't think killing Rudolph would have made Harry a monster. Now if the attempt had been unprovoked, coldly, and more importantly for pleasure, then he would have become a monster.
Don't get me wrong, killing Rudolph still would have been bad and when he came to himself again, something Harry would feel guilty about for the rest of his life. But in reaction to what he saw as the murder of his friend and lover? Not a monstrous act at all.
The Faithsabre says No! A blade which can only hurt monsters, and which Harry had had no trouble with previous, wounded him.
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I believe FaithSabre will only do as much as needed to overcome the situation against humans
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The Faithsabre says No! A blade which can only hurt monsters, and which Harry had had no trouble with previous, wounded him.
It burned him, he immediately snapped out of the state he was in. Kind of a slap on the ass to bring him back.. Burned him a little, yes, but hey it could have taken his arm clean off if he were really bad in his heart. Harry felt shame and remorse every time he felt that pain, a monster wouldn't feel anything.
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Harry's a monster. Showing remorse doesn't mean anything. A man might show remorse after beating his wife to death. It makes him no less a monster. The day might come when Butter's or someone isn't there. And then what? And this isn't the first instance of Harry going into a killing rage.
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Harry's a monster. Showing remorse doesn't mean anything. A man might show remorse after beating his wife to death. It makes him no less a monster. The day might come when Butter's or someone isn't there. And then what? And this isn't the first instance of Harry going into a killing rage.
A true monster in my opinion is a psychopath and or sociopath, Harry is neither. A monster wouldn't have demanded that the people hurt and killed in the battle be compensated. People lose their tempers all of the time, that doesn't make them monsters. We tend to cut Rudolph a bit of slack for killing Murphy because he was paranoid, scared shitless, and totally careless. Yet, many aren't willing to cut Harry a bit of slack, react, yes, but with merely a flood of grief, not violent retaliation.. That makes him a monster some seem to think, but left out in that scenario is the kind of pressure Harry was under at that moment,people were dying left right and center and he couldn't do much about it, then Murphy was killed before his eyes, he snapped, everyone has their breaking point. Sanya and Butters know this, if they thought for one moment that he was a monster, they would have dispatched him, the Sword would have instead of a mere slap on the wrist in the form of a burn to bring him back to the job at hand.
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It has nothing to do with cutting anybody any slack. The sword hurt him not because he was a monster. It hurt him because the act was evil. Frankenstein was a monster but he was not evil in an classic sense.
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It has nothing to do with cutting anybody any slack. The sword hurt him not because he was a monster. It hurt him because the act was evil. Frankenstein was a monster but he was not evil in an classic sense.
No, if he were a monster, the sword would have cut off his arm.. It didn't. Earlier in Peace Talks Harry didn't feel anything from the blade during that practice session with Michael and Butters. If Harry were a monster it would have burned him then, it didn't. The Sword acted like a shock collar, it zapped him good, it brought him back to reality, he stopped, a monster wouldn't have. In the classic sense, angels are monsters, so what does that prove? Frankenstein's Monster was not evil in the classic sense either, he was considered "unnatural."
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I've said it before and I will no doubt say it again: I believe the shock of Murphy's sudden depth slipped Harry's control over the Winter Knight mantle, demonstrated in text by the parallel with when he gave it its head in Cold Days, and the burn from the Faithsabre was to allow him to reassert his free will/mastery over the mantle. The burn wouldn't stop him from killing Rudolph, but it would shift it to him killing Rudolph, instead of the meat suit being piloted by the id-machine Winter Mantle.
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I've said it before and I will no doubt say it again: I believe the shock of Murphy's sudden depth slipped Harry's control over the Winter Knight mantle, demonstrated in text by the parallel with when he gave it its head in Cold Days, and the burn from the Faithsabre was to allow him to reassert his free will/mastery over the mantle. The burn wouldn't stop him from killing Rudolph, but it would shift it to him killing Rudolph, instead of the meat suit being piloted by the id-machine Winter Mantle.
Pretty much, the pressure and shocks that Harry had been under and received the the days leading up to witnessing Murphy's death at the hands of Rudolph sent Harry over the edge. For a few minutes he was sent into a mindless rage, all he wanted to do was react and kill the one who killed his love. The Sword burn was like getting ice water thrown into his face, the shock of it brought him back to himself and reset his brain.. Everyone loses it sometimes, Eb lost it when he was fighting Harry with almost tragic results, that reset Eb's brain and he reacted with the same shame as Harry, both know they should never lose control, but enough emotion, enough pressure, it happens. Both Eb and Harry are basically good people, they are not monsters
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Ehhh, the swords aren't made to intercept evil acts though. They facilitate choice. The only time I can think of them ever injuring a normal mortal is SmF, where iirc Michael shoves it through a door with a gunman on the other side(might be confabulating it with him doing the same to a Hob.. 🤔🤷♂️ )
For the swords to have specific sway and purpose there, as the arrival of Sanya would make it appear, then something fishy had to be going on on one end or another. Either Rudolph was innocent and the Lie itself was the abrogation of freedom, or Harry's reaction wasn't entirely on center. Which, even without specific interference the heightened magic in the air could have been driving his emotional reaction. Harry's act may have been evil, using defensive magic to kill might have been a twisting of creation itself. But Harry's human, he's allowed to error. He's allowed to accidentally burn down a building full of vampires and probably kill many of their impaired victims. Michael was right there, nobody stopped that. This situation HAD to have a quantifiable difference.
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Essentially I am saying: Harry was not Harry, Harry was the mantle at the same.
You could view that I was arguing that the burn was the Faithsabre sending the mantle into brief remission, restoring Harry's ability to choose- since apparently he's the fulcrum, as the seer said in book 1. The Council may be blind to it, Mab and Vadderung may have guessed- but Uriel would *know*.
Burn=antithesis of ice, after all
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Ehhh, the swords aren't made to intercept evil acts though. They facilitate choice.
Which fits with what I am saying. The burn presented Harry with a choice, the smell of sulfur and brimstone, the consequences of that choice, ice water to the face, "wake up, there are consequences, is this what you really want to do?" Harry came back to himself, the answer was, "no, this isn't what he wanted to do."
Harry's act may have been evil, using defensive magic to kill might have been a twisting of creation itself. But Harry's human, he's allowed to error.
Correction, it would have been evil had he carried it out, but the burn brought Harry back and he chose to let Rudolph go. Kind of a play on a Holy Knight giving a Denarian a choice, surrender the coin and seek redemption or continue his or her evil ways. The burn made Harry pause long enough to make a choice.. And yes, I agree Harry is human, humans error, and he had been under tremendous pressure and snapped.. Forgivable, even understandable, but if he had killed Rudolph
that bell cannot be unrung and Harry would have had to live the those consequences.
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I've said it before and I will no doubt say it again: I believe the shock of Murphy's sudden depth slipped Harry's control over the Winter Knight mantle, demonstrated in text by the parallel with when he gave it its head in Cold Days, and the burn from the Faithsabre was to allow him to reassert his free will/mastery over the mantle. The burn wouldn't stop him from killing Rudolph, but it would shift it to him killing Rudolph, instead of the meat suit being piloted by the id-machine Winter Mantle.
Anything is possible, but this isn't the first instance of this. In the other two I'm aware of Harry didn't have the mantle. In Blood Rites Eb grabs his burned hand to bring him back. In Grave Peril Michael has to give him CPR after he uses so much magic killing Vampires that his heart stopped. It's no wonder LTW offered to teach him anger management. But if you're going to hold your position then you're going to have to reconcile what they theorized about Butter's sword.
Michael touched the blade of Fidelacchius again, more reverently. “Angels aren’t allowed to interfere with mortals or their free will,” he said. “If you’re right, Harry . . . this blade of light is a direct expression of the will of an angel. It can’t impinge upon the free will of a mortal. It can only fight evil beings who attempt the same.”
Butcher, Jim. Peace Talks (Dresden Files) (p. 178). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
Harry was meant to be a weapon, Lea tells you as much in Ghost Story. When that part takes over, Harry has the potential for evil and the sword can hurt him. That text is given to reader to make what happens to Harry understandable.
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Harry makes lots of mistakes but I'm looking for what you think are big critical ones that will return some how in future books. Here are some of mine.
1. Handing over the Book of Kemmler to Mavra. She was blackmailing him, but was protecting a friend from her career getting ruined worth handing over a book like that to a monster? I don't think so, and I imagine it's going to come up again.
2. Staking claim to Demon Reach. This was a really big move, and it seems to have worked out well for him. That being said, Jim said "He's going to wish he never stepped foot on that Island". So I imagine it was a bad move.
Jim is misleading here. Harry might say that a few times and he might be really pleased he did so a few other times. What matters is the total balance and Jim says nothing about that.
3. Splitting up Bob. Seemed like a good idea, but I think Evil Bob is out there, allied with who knows who. He had access to horrible knowledge. Can't imagine that will end well.
4. Killing the entire Red Court. Some of that may be becoming apparent already with the Fomor. I'm wondering if Harry will realize he had another option, and the one he chose was the wrong one. As a wizard I'm wondering if he could have worked out a spell, and used that source of power for something else, rather than sacrifice Susan and wipe out out the Red's.
I think that was a really good idea. Even necessary.
Just some off the top of my head. Can you think of some critical decisions he made that may have appeared right but will return to haunt him later?
Knowing Jim even the good decisions can have bad side effects that will haunt him later even if all the alternatives were worse.
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Harry was meant to be a weapon, Lea tells you as much in Ghost Story. When that part takes over, Harry has the potential for evil and the sword can hurt him. That text is given to reader to make what happens to Harry understandable.
It still doesn't make Harry evil, a weapon is neither good nor evil, it is the hand that wields that weapon that does the good or evil.
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Ehhh, the swords aren't made to intercept evil acts though. They facilitate choice. The only time I can think of them ever injuring a normal mortal is SmF, where iirc Michael shoves it through a door with a gunman on the other side(might be confabulating it with him doing the same to a Hob.. 🤔🤷♂️ )
For the swords to have specific sway and purpose there, as the arrival of Sanya would make it appear, then something fishy had to be going on on one end or another. Either Rudolph was innocent and the Lie itself was the abrogation of freedom, or Harry's reaction wasn't entirely on center. Which, even without specific interference the heightened magic in the air could have been driving his emotional reaction. Harry's act may have been evil, using defensive magic to kill might have been a twisting of creation itself. But Harry's human, he's allowed to error. He's allowed to accidentally burn down a building full of vampires and probably kill many of their impaired victims. Michael was right there, nobody stopped that. This situation HAD to have a quantifiable difference.
It was Death Masks where Michael killed one of the tongueless foot soldiers in the airport.
Though we can't really assume the faithsabre plays by the same rules as the physical Swords anymore - they don't HAVE a 'shock' setting. It's either use them worthily and they're supernaturally powerful, or use them wrongly and they're just metal, with their supernatural protection compromised thereafter by the act. Precedent isn't entirely useful here - all we can interpret is that a burn that shocked Harry out of doing something wrongful was considered worthy enough that the blade did anything at all. Maybe the there was something hinky about the situation that wasn't immediately clear, like someone else gave Rudolph a case of the brain scramblies to precipitate killing Murphy, or maybe the angel in the sword has latitude to do that kind of thing all the time now that this particular sword is in noncorporeal form.
I wonder if using earth to trap Rudy's feet in the asphalt and staking him out in front of the Fomor to finish him off would have generated the same response as squashing him with a shield. Arguably the latter wouldn't have violated the first law (any more than the Wardens binding someone so they can't resist a physical murder), but presumably heaven would still take a similarly dim view of it.
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Though we can't really assume the faithsabre plays by the same rules as the physical Swords anymore - they don't HAVE a 'shock' setting. It's either use them worthily and they're supernaturally powerful, or use them wrongly and they're just metal, with their supernatural protection compromised thereafter by the act. Precedent isn't entirely useful here - all we can interpret is that a burn that shocked Harry out of doing something wrongful was considered worthy enough that the blade did anything at all. Maybe the there was something hinky about the situation that wasn't immediately clear, like someone else gave Rudolph a case of the brain scramblies to precipitate killing Murphy, or maybe the angel in the sword has latitude to do that kind of thing all the time now that this particular sword is in noncorporeal form.
If a Sword is misused, not only do they become just metal as Murphy found out, they break very easily. A light saber isn't the same obviously, it burned Harry, so it felt he needed to feel the pain as a warning, but at the same time it seemed to know there were mitigating circumstances involved, i.e. the murder of Murphy before Harry's eyes and all the other pressures he'd been under, so it didn't burn his arm off or worse. The angel in the Sword is most likely like Andriel, in that it knows everything that is going on and responds accordingly.
I wonder if using earth to trap Rudy's feet in the asphalt and staking him out in front of the Fomor to finish him off would have generated the same response as squashing him with a shield. Arguably the latter wouldn't have violated the first law (any more than the Wardens binding someone so they can't resist a physical murder), but presumably heaven would still take a similarly dim view of it.
I don't think the Laws of Magic and Heaven's Laws are exactly the same. Yeah, "Thou Shalt Not Kill" works for both, but the first has the addendum, "with magic." Heaven's Law doesn't specify method, just no killing at all... Humans have twisted both to make exceptions, like in defense etc..
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If a Sword is misused, not only do they become just metal as Murphy found out, they break very easily. A light saber isn't the same obviously, it burned Harry, so it felt he needed to feel the pain as a warning, but at the same time it seemed to know there were mitigating circumstances involved, i.e. the murder of Murphy before Harry's eyes and all the other pressures he'd been under, so it didn't burn his arm off or worse. The angel in the Sword is most likely like Andriel, in that it knows everything that is going on and responds accordingly.
I don't think the Laws of Magic and Heaven's Laws are exactly the same. Yeah, "Thou Shalt Not Kill" works for both, but the first has the addendum, "with magic." Heaven's Law doesn't specify method, just no killing at all... Humans have twisted both to make exceptions, like in defense etc..
Thou shall not murder, and murder just means unlawful killing. That is the original meaning. Those exceptions were there from the beginning. They were a warlike people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou_shalt_not_kill
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The biblical text is more like thou shalt not murder rather than thou shalt not kill.(Ninja'd by Arjan)
The Sword didn't shock Harry. It burned him, leaving the scent of brimstone. And it forced Harry to see through Rudolph's eyes.
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The Sword didn't shock Harry. It burned him, leaving the scent of brimstone. And it forced Harry to see through Rudolph's eyes.
It meant to hurt him enough to bring him to his senses rather than permanently damage him, though. That's what I mean by shock.
I read the brimstone scent as from him. If he'd pulled on soulfire at that moment, he'd have been using the other 'side of the coin'.
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It meant to hurt him enough to bring him to his senses rather than permanently damage him, though. That's what I mean by shock.
Exactly, and from Harry's reaction and continued shame because of that burn, it straightened him out totally.
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It meant to hurt him enough to bring him to his senses rather than permanently damage him, though. That's what I mean by shock.
I read the brimstone scent as from him. If he'd pulled on soulfire at that moment, he'd have been using the other 'side of the coin'.
I thought as much. But why would being burned by the sword produce the smell of sulphur?
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I thought as much. But why would being burned by the sword produce the smell of sulphur?
Warning...
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Maybe the smell was unrelated and Rudolph had made a mess...
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Now there's a word picture that I can go to bed on. Rudolph craps Brimstone. Who knew?
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Now there's a word picture that I can go to bed on. Rudolph craps Brimstone. Who knew?
He does appear to be possessed doesn't he? 8) Also crapping when you think you are about to be killed in an unpleasant way is a natural biological function.... It doesn't exactly give him the odor of sanctity when you think about it, so crapping brimstone fits.... ::)
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Maybe the brimstone smell was just the hellfire offering itself for use.
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Maybe the brimstone smell was just the hellfire offering itself for use.
Temptation, yeah, that could work, but I doubt the Sword of Faith would offer that unless it was a coincidence that just when the Sword burned him Hellfire was offering itself. I think it was a unvarnished warning to Harry not to choose to go down that road.
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In the spirit of fun, consider that in some stories that Merlin was half a demon. So maybe Malcolm was the scion of a Fallen Angel and a human. So Harry has hellfire powered termites in his woodpile trying to get out. So Rudolph's crap is just crap and Harry's anger issues are because one grandpa was a baaaaad boy. Which feeds my weird notion that Harry is Merlin Ver 1. Who, due to time travel shenanigans is in the stasis chamber learning patience. And where at the appropriate time he will appear older and wiser and send himself back to fulfill a prophecy which has yet to be revealed, since I am making this up. :o