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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: SerScot on October 29, 2020, 12:58:09 AM
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Was he a member before he lost his people?
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It's implied he didn't protect his people because of the White Council's principal of wizard non-involvement in mortal politics.
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It's implied he didn't protect his people because of the White Council's principal of wizard non-involvement in mortal politics.
Yes. I’m still curious about where and how he learned about the White Council.
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I'm not certain, but I think it was probably in the colonial period. Most of the 13 Colonies were probably established by the time LtW was born. Jim's said that Eb, LtW, and Langtry were all active in the French and Indian War.
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It's implied he didn't protect his people because of the White Council's principal of wizard non-involvement in mortal politics.
That isn't the feeling I got, the sense I got is he fought hard and still saw his people suffering. He had to come to the realization that it was a lost cause and learn to deal with his anger. This is what he wanted to help Harry with, dealing with his anger because it is so self destructive.
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Do we see any other Native American wizards on the White Council? I wonder when the White Council sought to reach out to Native Wizards? Did they have contact with the Americas before major European colonization was under way or were they surprised to discover other users of Human Magic in the Americas?
Let’s go further, if the WC was established during the Roman Empire how did it it assert control over non-Roman human magic users? Was it conquest? Were Wardens out slaughtering Chinese, Indian, Native American, and Sub-saharan African wizards while Augustus ruled in Rome?
I’m now very curious about how the WC came to assert political control over the Human use of magic and why non-European “wizards” just accepted their hegemony?
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Do we see any other Native American wizards on the White Council? I wonder when the White Council sought to reach out to Native Wizards? Did they have contact with the Americas before major European colonization was under way or were they surprised to discover other users of Human Magic in the Americas?
Let’s go further, if the WC was established during the Roman Empire how it it assert control over non-Roman human magic users? Was it conquest? Were Wardens out slaughtering Chinese, Indian, Native American, and Sub-saharan African wizards while Augustus ruled in Rome?
I’m now very curious about how the WC came to assert political control over the Human use of magic and why non-European “wizards” just accepted their hegemony?
I wonder if it happened sometime during the Middle Ages? Maybe during the plague? Perhaps a little earlier in the time of Merlin. There was so much chaos and fear during those times and for lack of a better word "witch hunts," and vanilla humans were not playing nice with those suspected. Perhaps it was at that time that the wizards came together and decided they had to set down some agreed rules, policing themselves in the name of survival.
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I wonder if it happened sometime during the Middle Ages? Maybe during the plague? Perhaps a little earlier in the time of Merlin. There was so much chaos and fear during those times and for lack of a better word "witch hunts," and vanilla humans were not playing nice with those suspected. Perhaps it was at that time that the wizards came together and decided they had to set down some agreed rules, policing themselves in the name of survival.
But it wouldn’t have been a global movement. Magic use, even in our world, wasn’t always demonized. As such why would “wizards” from cultures that didn’t oppress magic users join an organization that wants to push magic use underground?
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But it wouldn’t have been a global movement. Magic use, even in our world, wasn’t always demonized. As such why would “wizards” from cultures that didn’t oppress magic users join an organization that wants to push magic use underground?
Actually I think it can be seen as a global movement, because human nature doesn't change from one part of the world to another. Cultures rise and fall and have more in common than you think. Wizards also would have a way to communicate with one another that the culture they rose from lacked. The Council meant more power, it meant protection for them as a group, it is natural that they'd go global.
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Actually I think it can be seen as a global movement, because human nature doesn't change from one part of the world to another. Cultures rise and fall and have more in common than you think. Wizards also would have a way to communicate with one another that the culture they rose from lacked. The Council meant more power, it meant protection for them as a group, it is natural that they'd go global.
No.
If “wizards have a way to communicate with one anothet that individual cultures lack” why are wizards in the current day having trouble getting to talented kids before they abuse their power? The two ideas do not gel. The WC had to start at some point. It had to start in some place and at some time. It could not have been some collective action from all human magic users on Earth because, we know, there is no way to contact every human magic user on Earth in the present day Dresdenverse.
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No.
If “wizards have a way to communicate with one anothet that individual cultures lack” why are wizards in the current day having trouble getting to talented kids before they abuse their power? The two ideas do not gel. The WC had to start at some point. It had to start in some place and at some time. It could not have been some collective action from all human magic users on Earth because, we know, there is no way to contact every human magic user on Earth in the present day Dresdenverse.
It does work, because even today there are wizards, Elaine and Mort to name a couple that can keep off the radar and not join the White Council. So do you think that is a new thing?
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It does work, because even today there are wizards, Elaine and Mort to name a couple that can keep off the radar and not join the White Council. So do you think that is a new thing?
You’re missing my point. The WC could not have started wholisticly across the planet. It started in one place and grew. How did that happen?
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That isn't the feeling I got, the sense I got is he fought hard and still saw his people suffering. He had to come to the realization that it was a lost cause and learn to deal with his anger. This is what he wanted to help Harry with, dealing with his anger because it is so self destructive.
Turn Coat, Ch. 15:Once, I watched the tribe I was expected to guide and protect be destroyed, Harry Dresden. I did so because my principles held that it was wrong for the Council or its members to involve itself in manipulating the politics of mortals. I watched and restrained myself, until it was too late for me to make a difference. When I did that, I chose who would live and who would di. My people died for my principles.
Do we see any other Native American wizards on the White Council? I wonder when the White Council sought to reach out to Native Wizards? Did they have contact with the Americas before major European colonization was under way or were they surprised to discover other users of Human Magic in the Americas?
I haven't noticed any. With the amount of contact Harry has with the Council, we're not going to get anything close to a representative sample size of it. We do have a hint of another indigenous to the Americas wizard. Carlos's gear has Mesoamerican markings. Carlos isn't a Latino. He's a "Spaniard by way of California." I don't know why he would choose Mesoamerican instead of something more European. I always assumed it was something his master taught him. This would imply, at least a little bit, that his teacher was indigenous.
I think the White Council discovered the New World at the same time other Europeans did, but there probably exceptions. Maybe some Norse wizards knew about it when the Vikings did. Merlin definitely made his way to Lake Michigan. The reason I think this is because LtW was expected to protect and guide his people. He could have just been expected to be their chief, but I think he was expected to be their shaman.
Let’s go further, if the WC was established during the Roman Empire how did it it assert control over non-Roman human magic users? Was it conquest? Were Wardens out slaughtering Chinese, Indian, Native American, and Sub-saharan African wizards while Augustus ruled in Rome?
I’m now very curious about how the WC came to assert political control over the Human use of magic and why non-European “wizards” just accepted their hegemony?
I'm fairly certain it's been said, either in the books or by Jim directly, that an organization of wizards has "always" existed in one form or another. I'd interpret always as it's origins are so remote as to be lost to history, not literally since the beginning of creation. Merlin just rearranged things and put down the 7 Laws. If black magic had always been a thing and most practitioners had always agreed it wasn't good, it wouldn't take much for Merlin to get everyone on board for an organization that's primary purposes were to prevent black magic and to keep wizards out of politics. Merlin had to be extraordinarily impressive.
China and Rome knew of each other's existence. I'd imagine that wizards, at least the more adventurous ones, had traveled back and forth. The wizards from various cultures had a somewhat equal representation in the Council. So there was almost certainly Eastern/Western communication going on before Merlin set up the White Council.
I doubt it had a European hegemony. The Council is a direct democracy when the Senior Council doesn't take up an issue like they did in Summer Knight. (Caveat: I'm sure there are executive and judicial functions, especially routine ones, that the whole Council doesn't get a direct say in). The most Western things about the Council are Latin and it's democratic aspects. Why did the White Council tilt that way? Merlin was the most powerful wizard we've ever heard of. The next most powerful is Kemmler. His necromancy may have been impressive, but it was simple according to Grevane. Merlin's was the internal combustion engine compared to the wheel. Merlin's power alone was probably enough to establish the White Council if he was willing to give everyone a seat at the table.
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I always figured though numbers were sparse. The WC was never limited by continents. They've always had access to the ways. And they seem to have methods for finding those who are actually doing black magic, sensing it.. so I can't imagine them not coming to the america's and putting the wizards they found there under their collective thumbs on following the laws. Though when that actually happened could be argued..
*The existence of DR is a good point. They'd have known about it for far longer than simply when the america's were colonized. Things like Merlin's journals, people like the gatekeeper. America's existence couldn't have been entirely unknown to to the council, specifically at the higher echelons.
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About the Ways. The wizards would have to know about them or just be exploring. Merlin could have gone to Demonreach without having gone anywhere else in the Americas and so could successor Wardens.
I'm 50/50 on whether or not they knew about the Americas and the Wizards of the Americas knew about them.
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Turn Coat, Ch. 15:
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Once, I watched the tribe I was expected to guide and protect be destroyed, Harry Dresden. I did so because my principles held that it was wrong for the Council or its members to involve itself in manipulating the politics of mortals. I watched and restrained myself, until it was too late for me to make a difference. When I did that, I chose who would live and who would di. My people died for my principles.
Or that is Listen's to Wind's own sense of guilt that he didn't do enough, because as some point he did step in. The guilt comes from apparently he was in the position where he had to chose who'd live and who'd die among his people. Now was it because as a medicine man he had to triage his patients? Or a bargain he made?
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Or that is Listen's to Wind's own sense of guilt that he didn't do enough, because as some point he did step in. The guilt comes from apparently he was in the position where he had to chose who'd live and who'd die among his people. Now was it because as a medicine man he had to triage his patients? Or a bargain he made?
He explicitly says they died because he didn't intervene. He also explicitly says it's because of the principle that it's wrong for members of the Council to intervene in mortal politics. So I guess that my original statement was wrong because I said it was implied. It's explicitly stated.
I did so because my principles held that it was wrong for the Council or its members to involve itself in manipulating the politics of mortals. ... My people died for my principles.
Emphasis added. LtW didn't intervene because he was a member of the White Council, and LtW believed it was wrong for a member to intervene in mortal politics.
because as some point he did step in.
There's no evidence that he stepped in.
The guilt comes from apparently he was in the position where he had to chose who'd live and who'd die among his people.
He chose to not intervene. That's the choice he's referring to. That's the plain meaning of what he's said.
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The WC’s imposition of its non-interfereance ethic upon its members is one of the reasons I’m curious about its creation and its history. Imposing that ethic upon cultures that don’t damn, shame, or banish magic users would seem... odd.
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The WC had to come to the Americas with the Spaniards at the very latest.
Somehow I don't see the Red Court allowing Cortez and his conquistadors to run roughshod unless they had some magical help.
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The WC’s imposition of its non-interfereance ethic upon its members is one of the reasons I’m curious about its creation and its history. Imposing that ethic upon cultures that don’t damn, shame, or banish magic users would seem... odd.
At the time the WC was founded, that was all of them.
The WC had to come to the Americas with the Spaniards at the very latest.
Somehow I don't see the Red Court allowing Cortez and his conquistadors to run roughshod unless they had some magical help.
It could be that Cortez had help from within the Red Court. Cortez was able to do what he did because he had a great deal of local support. They also had a lot of crosses and faith and stuff.
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I always figured though numbers were sparse. The WC was never limited by continents. They've always had access to the ways. And they seem to have methods for finding those who are actually doing black magic, sensing it.. so I can't imagine them not coming to the america's and putting the wizards they found there under their collective thumbs on following the laws. Though when that actually happened could be argued..
*The existence of DR is a good point. They'd have known about it for far longer than simply when the america's were colonized. Things like Merlin's journals, people like the gatekeeper. America's existence couldn't have been entirely unknown to to the council, specifically at the higher echelons.
Yeah, but there is also evidence that many don't know about it,or that much. Doesn't Eb say if the Council knew what Harry did as Warden on Demonreach or what it was they'd really want to get rid of them. We know that Merlin most likely started the White Council, it is also possible that he created Demonreach before he formed the Council.
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It's been implied or mentioned several times that Harry's job as Warden isn't widely known or understood.
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It's been implied or mentioned several times that Harry's job as Warden isn't widely known or understood.
but it is known. Especially more than understood. Though the council apparently understands it's full of monsters and Harry can release them if desired. They knew his plan for Ethniu and weren't surprised for instance. Even Carlos didn't seem too surprised about it, more that he could actually talk to Enthiu directly still.
Really though... How much do we understand of it's actual purpose ourselves? Eb seems to think Harry still doesn't know it's actual purpose in PT
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but it is known. Especially more than understood. Though the council apparently understands it's full of monsters and Harry can release them if desired. They knew his plan for Ethniu and weren't surprised for instance. Even Carlos didn't seem too surprised about it, more that he could actually talk to Enthiu directly still.
Really though... How much do we understand of it's actual purpose ourselves? Eb seems to think Harry still doesn't know it's actual purpose in PT
Oh I think after a year on the island, Harry understands what it is about pretty well. Well, as much as Alfred is allowed to tell him. But unless Eb was Warden of the island himself at one time, I doubt that he fully understands himself what it's actual purpose is.
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And Harry agrees with the island’s purpose. There is no conflict with the island not even about methods or morality or whatever.
I think of the senior council only the gatekeeper understand more or less what is going on. They do not act like they know that winter is protecting this reality in a critical time.
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And Harry agrees with the island’s purpose. There is no conflict with the island not even about methods or morality or whatever.
I think of the senior council only the gatekeeper understand more or less what is going on. They do not act like they know that winter is protecting this reality in a critical time.
Yup, and Rashid isn't sharing a lot of what he knows with the Senior Council either.
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I don't know why he would choose Mesoamerican instead of something more European. I always assumed it was something his master taught him. This would imply, at least a little bit, that his teacher was indigenous.
It is quite important than words and symbols used by wizard are not his vernacular. They do not hold like gnostic value in doing magic, they do not represent some angelic language or smth like in real-world occultism - they are foci for wizards mind.
If Carlos is from L.A. he could use some native Mexican symbolism for his spells.
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Yeah, but there is also evidence that many don't know about it,or that much. Doesn't Eb say if the Council knew what Harry did as Warden on Demonreach or what it was they'd really want to get rid of them. We know that Merlin most likely started the White Council, it is also possible that he created Demonreach before he formed the Council.
he knows the what and the how of the island. Not the why. Because quite simply the same as with other topics Harry just doesn't get it because if he did it would change the plot(like who killed my parents, how are BCV's related to outsiders, those kinds of meaningful questions Harry has some sort of stupidity plot armor for lol) I mean, Eb does have Merlin's journals...
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he knows the what and the how of the island. Not the why. Because quite simply the same as with other topics Harry just doesn't get it because if he did it would change the plot(like who killed my parents, how are BCV's related to outsiders, those kinds of meaningful questions Harry has some sort of stupidity plot armor for lol) I mean, Eb does have Merlin's journals...
I wouldn't call it stupidity, it is more ignorance.. He had bad study habits from the get go, he slept through Latin in high school, and even though it has improved some, he still doesn't know half of what goes on at White Council meetings. He's gotten better at veils, but he has had to really work at that. Maybe that is why he wants him lab back so badly? He had to resort to potions to break out Thomas, but it is never said where he put it together or how he got the ingredients.
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I remember an old Woj about Harry doesn't do potions anymore cause they're for people who really don't know what they're doing... Guess Harry's regressing lol.
Really hoping Harry gets his act together on his magical finesse in the next few books. I remember him mentioning it multiple times in PT/BG, when he encounters Marcones sudden mastery for instance.
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I remember an old Woj about Harry doesn't do potions anymore cause they're for people who really don't know what they're doing... Guess Harry's regressing lol.
Really hoping Harry gets his act together on his magical finesse in the next few books. I remember him mentioning it multiple times in PT/BG, when he encounters Marcones sudden mastery for instance.
But it takes time, a wizard is a perpetual student. What comes to mind, is in Battle Ground, Marcone/Namshiel did something, and Harry commented that he'd need another fifty years of study and experience to even attempt that. Yes, Eb and Christos are powerful wizards, they were born with the potential, but it took a hundred years or so to really develop skills.
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It is quite important than words and symbols used by wizard are not his vernacular. They do not hold like gnostic value in doing magic, they do not represent some angelic language or smth like in real-world occultism - they are foci for wizards mind.
If Carlos is from L.A. he could use some native Mexican symbolism for his spells.
He could have, but why would he when he goes to the effort of distinguishing himself from Latin American roots? That's why I say it gives us a week implication that his master identified with that language and could be part of a native bloodline.
Justin used, and taught Harry and Elaine to use, Egyptian. Is that the standard practice? Maybe. We don't have much evidence on what are traditional master-apprentice techniques and relationships. Harry, being Harry, decided to go with faux-Latin. Justin let him because it would serve to further isolate him from the Council. Or that's my guess as to why. Harry let Molly use Japanese and didn't teach her to use Latin for the opposite reason. Again, that's my guess.
He had bad study habits from the get go, he slept through Latin in high school.
He learned Latin from a correspondence course. That's why he keeps thinking "stupid correspondence course" in the earlier books. Harry did bad in Spanish in high school. Harry actually had good study habits until him and Elaine became sexual. Harry comments that the schoolwork was easy.
I remember an old Woj about Harry doesn't do potions anymore cause they're for people who really don't know what they're doing.
I've heard several where Jim talks about how they're a crutch for writers. I've heard another where he said potion scenes are boring or he doesn't enjoy writing them or something. Another one said that the pacing was too fast for Harry to have time to make potions.
So it makes sense for Harry to use less potions and maybe use some we've seen before.
Honestly, I'd prefer it if Harry made some potions at the beginning of a book every now and then that he expected he might need and didn't always end up with an opportunity to use them. It would show him being prepared, like he always goes on about, and be realistic in that sometimes we prepare for risks that never materialize. Like how I wear a seatbelt every time I get in a car, but have only needed one maybe once.
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There must be some woj about a planned short story with Ebenezer and listen to wind during the French and Indian war. Those two against the future Merlin I suppose.
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From what I recall I'm thinking in the beginning Eb and LTW fought. When they made piece is when LTW gave Eb the cowboy hat.
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He learned Latin from a correspondence course. That's why he keeps thinking "stupid correspondence course" in the earlier books. Harry did bad in Spanish in high school. Harry actually had good study habits until him and Elaine became sexual. Harry comments that the schoolwork was easy.
Yes, but if he had troubles with Spanish he'd have just as hard a time with Latin. He blames the correspondence course, but he could have taken a night class to improve his Latin. He could have worked a bit harder at it, which he did after Molly became his apprentice. I don't think Harry's study habits were ever that great, he did well enough because he was bright, not because he worked hard.
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I mean one of my biggest systemic problems with Dresden Files is fact that Dresden does not seems to be doing much of research overall.
Those books are spread about year apart, with each he gets more and more very warning signs that shit is about to get really bad, but he does not seems to pursue leads, and he should really go for them at least since Blood Rites.
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I mean one of my biggest systemic problems with Dresden Files is fact that Dresden does not seems to be doing much of research overall.
Those books are spread about year apart, with each he gets more and more very warning signs that shit is about to get really bad, but he does not seems to pursue leads, and he should really go for them at least since Blood Rites.
Yup, that was the main complaint some of us had about Peace Talks. It was also one of the things that set the Dresden Files apart and why many of us fell in love with the series.
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It was also one of the things that set the Dresden Files apart and why many of us fell in love with the series.
Well yes I agree - fast tempo, and urgency are hallmarks of this series, even in it's slowest moments really.
But I think that could be done - without changing it.
We leave Dresden in one moment, and then in next books he connected some dots, make some active move until another catastrophe breaks loose in his life.
Sort of like - whole Kravnos case is said in retrospect. Or like Little Chicago - just made you know about something connected to the plot.
So I was like bit annoyed when Dresden after fight with Drakul's was all mouthy towards Listen to Winds, and he said "that I have to connect all dots on my own" or something like that. Like, dude - you did jackshit for all this years to connect all those dots, unless someone forced you :P
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So I was like bit annoyed when Dresden after fight with Drakul's was all mouthy towards Listen to Winds, and he said "that I have to connect all dots on my own" or something like that. Like, dude - you did jackshit for all this years to connect all those dots, unless someone forced you
True, to a certain degree, but it is hard to connect dots that you have no access to, or know about. There has been a major conspiracy from the get go to keep Harry in the dark about a lot of things by the powers to be. Though Harry is good at it, one can only slam one's head against that wall for so long, the resulting headache eventually force him to look for other options.
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True, to a certain degree, but it is hard to connect dots that you have no access to, or know about.
Fandom connected many dots - while having only access to Dresden's internal monologue. And we are like nerdy noobs not Wizards of White Council.
And it's not even than he had not managed to find much - it's like - we don't see him even trying, not being pro-active at all.
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Fandom connected many dots - while having only access to Dresden's internal monologue. And we are like nerdy noobs not Wizards of White Council.
And it's not even than he had not managed to find much - it's like - we don't see him even trying, not being pro-active at all.
Yeah, well, someone keeps throwing distractions in his face...
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Fandom connected many dots - while having only access to Dresden's internal monologue. And we are like nerdy noobs not Wizards of White Council.
And it's not even than he had not managed to find much - it's like - we don't see him even trying, not being pro-active at all.
Exactly what should he be researching? He built LC. He's done multiple iterations of his wards and tools. He took on an apprentice. He built a bug out retreat. He's obviously increased his level of understanding about the abilities of Demonreach. He's honed his personal skills. He also created and supported the Paranet. He made a living using his craft. When he does ask the question of the roster of people whom might know he gets crickets. Jim has been fairly consistent about this.
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Yeah, well, someone keeps throwing distractions in his face...
Once per year!
He built LC. He's done multiple iterations of his wards and tools. He took on an apprentice. He built a bug out retreat. He's obviously increased his level of understanding about the abilities of Demonreach. He's honed his personal skills. He also created and supported the Paranet. He made a living using his craft.
Indeed - but it's all self-improvement, not pro-active stance against some Big Bad Conspiracy - or Conspiracies - he is concious about since Dead Beat, and in fact Blood Rites where his mother's lover/murderer use the same Outsider Walker as his master should ring the bell.
At least since Dead Beat he should seriously delve in investigation - and there are multiple sources that could be used. Vast array of supernatural forces, spirits, and even muggle specialists.
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Indeed - but it's all self-improvement, not pro-active stance against some Big Bad Conspiracy - or Conspiracies - he is concious about since Dead Beat, and in fact Blood Rites where his mother's lover/murderer use the same Outsider Walker as his master should ring the bell.
At least since Dead Beat he should seriously delve in investigation - and there are multiple sources that could be used. Vast array of supernatural forces, spirits, and even muggle specialists.
The evil part of me says that it is this way since Jim needs to milk the concept to pay for his lifestyle.
However. In the books there is a price to pay for asking the kind of questions that he would need to ask. And he may not want to pay that price. Even his allies don't share what they know. And the one year skip between books is history. And in his wisdom Harry picked up a child. And parents should know what that does to your time budget. My head canon is that he has been doing a slow methodical search, which to this point hasn't borne much fruit.
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You know, I do not even need for him to get a result.
But I want to know he is really, really trying - and failing, because either prices is too high, or theoreticall allies keeps him obfuscated and gaslighted. And it can even stronger push his wizard paranoia.
Really Jim could just read this board or one of FB groups, write down theories good and bad, and just make Dresden consider all of them, and make mad graphs
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/596f80ed52713302bfba078113594ca419e520a4/0_0_1024_614/master/1024.jpg?width=620&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=5928f9ece31186f0bef53d694193be9d)
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You know, I do not even need for him to get a result.
But I want to know he is really, really trying - and failing, because either prices is too high, or theoreticall allies keeps him obfuscated and gaslighted. And it can even stronger push his wizard paranoia.
Really Jim could just read this board or one of FB groups, write down theories good and bad, and just make Dresden consider all of them, and make mad graphs
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/596f80ed52713302bfba078113594ca419e520a4/0_0_1024_614/master/1024.jpg?width=620&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=5928f9ece31186f0bef53d694193be9d)
Shoot, if you are going to do a photo like that, do Sherlock Holms....
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Harry is not dignified and high on coke enough to be Sherlock.
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Yes, but if he had troubles with Spanish he'd have just as hard a time with Latin. He blames the correspondence course, but he could have taken a night class to improve his Latin. He could have worked a bit harder at it, which he did after Molly became his apprentice. I don't think Harry's study habits were ever that great, he did well enough because he was bright, not because he worked hard.
Harry probably didn't value Latin highly because he didn't want to interact with the Council. I don't see justification for the claim he had bad study habits.
I mean one of my biggest systemic problems with Dresden Files is fact that Dresden does not seems to be doing much of research overall.
I don't know how true that is. For example, Harry thinks in GS about how Sir Stewart knows the names of the three Swords of the Cross when he's been researching them for years. The only research we see him do is ask Yoshimo and Molly about their family history.
And in BG, Harry knows what the placard does. I don't remember if BG mentions that he has studied the artifacts or researched them, but he obviously has.
I think that Jim doesn't show or tell us about Harry's research unless it's relevant. I think it would be nice to have a sentence or two dropped about all the dead ends he runs into.
Exactly what should he be researching? He built LC. He's done multiple iterations of his wards and tools. He took on an apprentice. He built a bug out retreat. He's obviously increased his level of understanding about the abilities of Demonreach. He's honed his personal skills. He also created and supported the Paranet. He made a living using his craft. When he does ask the question of the roster of people whom might know he gets crickets. Jim has been fairly consistent about this.
And way back in FM when Marcone offers him a consulting contract, Harry thinks about all the research projects he doesn't have time to do that he could if he didn't have to earn a living. Does anyone disagree that he's only gotten busier as the series has progressed?
You know, I do not even need for him to get a result.
But I want to know he is really, really trying - and failing.
I agree. And I think Jim has given us enough to think this, but not to know it.
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Harry probably didn't value Latin highly because he didn't want to interact with the Council. I don't see justification for the claim he had bad study habits.
He didn't learn it because he didn't know about the Council, when he did, other things were a priority.
However you'd think Eb would have insisted that Harry learn it when he was under his care. For no other reason than Harry would be able to understand what was going on and not make a fool of himself. But then again, that might have been the general idea?
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Several points to consider:
1. We believe the gatekeeper is the oldest of the senior council, since he took down the Abdul Alhazred in 730 AD, according to WoJ. Also according to WoJ, the path to the gatekeepers personal demesne involve briefly walking on the moon, so we can assume wizards made it to the moon long before the rest of mankind did. If that is possible, I see no reason why the white council wouldn't be in contact with the America's before Columbus.
2. In the way way back, there were a lot really bad things running around. Way more than now - think of all the things locked away in Demonreach and by the Ventori helping the world forget them. There probably weren't that many more good things though, since why would we lock those things away? Maybe there was more direct intervention from various human pantheons, but even most of those are at least 50% evil (or have an evil opposite like the Jotuns). So Wizards back then might have been much more active in fighting for humanity than they are now, and a lot less worried about policing themselves.
3. Certain areas may have had less wizards per population that others. The Aztec/Incan region seems to have been ruled by the Red Court at the discovery of America. I see no reason why they would encourage/allow humans in their care to become wizards, and probably rooted out those with potential, leading to a very low wizard population in at least half of the new world.
4. Excepting certain powers intervening (ala red court in Mesoamerica) the population of wizards should probably be reflective of human populations, so it certainly does seem that the council is horribly western in leadership, considering that about 60% of the world population lives in Asia. And considering the references Harry has made about their locations, etc. it seems it has probably always been European dominated, which seems wrong unless there is a similar reduction in Asian wizard populations for some reason (hunted by jade court, etc.)
5. I do wonder though, back in the day before world exploration, it seems like it might have been relatively easy for the wizards to find each other with divination sources and paths in the NN, but it seems like communication would have been a total beast. There doesn't appear to be any magic way to learn languages (else Harry would be better at Latin) short of putting a demon in your head, and while it might have been easy to find a path to the America's through the NN, when they come out communication would be a bitch, and not what most people do for fun. I've got to think there has to be more value to being part of the Council or more punishment for breaking rules, else there is no way the world's wizards would have joined up like they appear to have done.
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And in BG, Harry knows what the placard does. I don't remember if BG mentions that he has studied the artifacts or researched them, but he obviously has.
Well there were 5 artifacts lying together - so what placard is was easy to guess by educated man.
Now force of this artifact - I'm not sure if it was matter of theoretical study - or just power of Crucifixion artifacts is so strong he can just feel what it does. Just like just knew what Spear of Destiny is doing be holding in in his hands.
4. Excepting certain powers intervening (ala red court in Mesoamerica) the population of wizards should probably be reflective of human populations, so it certainly does seem that the council is horribly western in leadership, considering that about 60% of the world population lives in Asia. And considering the references Harry has made about their locations, etc. it seems it has probably always been European dominated, which seems wrong unless there is a similar reduction in Asian wizard populations for some reason (hunted by jade court, etc.)
White Council is quite young. 1000-1500 y.o.
Chinese wizards could have own traditions and even after joining were mostly interested into own business, just as Jade Court avoid global politics.
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He didn't learn it because he didn't know about the Council.
But Harry did learn Latin.
3. Certain areas may have had less wizards per population that others. The Aztec/Incan region seems to have been ruled by the Red Court at the discovery of America. I see no reason why they would encourage/allow humans in their care to become wizards, and probably rooted out those with potential, leading to a very low wizard population in at least half of the new world.
Or tracked and turned them.
4. Excepting certain powers intervening (ala red court in Mesoamerica) the population of wizards should probably be reflective of human populations, so it certainly does seem that the council is horribly western in leadership, considering that about 60% of the world population lives in Asia. And considering the references Harry has made about their locations, etc. it seems it has probably always been European dominated, which seems wrong unless there is a similar reduction in Asian wizard populations for some reason (hunted by jade court, etc.)
Could be because of medical and other developments in the West had something to do with western wizards having a higher survival rate. Most New World wizards older or close to LtW's age probably died with the rest of the population when exposed to the various Old World diseases. (The lack of New World exposure to Old World disease indicates that the wizards didn't travel between the Old and New World very often).
Well there were 5 artifacts lying together - so what placard is was easy to guess by educated man.
Now force of this artifact - I'm not sure if it was matter of theoretical study - or just power of Crucifixion artifacts is so strong he can just feel what it does. Just like just knew what Spear of Destiny is doing be holding in in his hands.
Figuring out what they are is simple. I don't think figuring out what they do is so simple. Either Harry did hands on research or looked to secondary sources describing what the placard did. Either way, he researched it.
His research could have been simple as you suggest, but I doubt it.
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Harry thinks in Peace Talks as he is getting the Knife from Alfred, If it truly was what I was pretty sure it was, then using it was going to put me in a long-term pickle"
You'll note he actually never has to use the knife as a knife in Battle Ground. Jim conveniently finds a work around and has Marcone provide him with a bloody knife. Harry uses the knife as an Anthame in the ritual, but he never uses it as a weapon. I don't think using it as an Anthame, "put him in a pickle" so to speak, so I suspect the consequences of actually using the knife as a weapon are still to be revealed and are more in keeping with stories of the spear of Longinus.
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Harry thinks in Peace Talks as he is getting the Knife from Alfred, If it truly was what I was pretty sure it was, then using it was going to put me in a long-term pickle"
You'll note he actually never has to use the knife as a knife in Battle Ground. Jim conveniently finds a work around and has Marcone provide him with a bloody knife. Harry uses the knife as an Anthame in the ritual, but he never uses it as a weapon. I don't think using it as an Anthame, "put him in a pickle" so to speak, so I suspect the consequences of actually using the knife as a weapon are still to be revealed and are more in keeping with stories of the spear of Longinus.
It isn't about using the Spear of Destiny, itself, as a weapon. The holder of the Spear gains power from holding it.
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I think Jim decided the researching has to happened behind the scene because Jim would have to write twice the pages to explain how Harry has the knowledge he needed to plan & act on them, like he suddenly knew what Eye of Balor is when he explained it to Murph despite never encountered any Titan in his lifetime.
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@toodeep #1 indeed, it's his domain being on the moon that makes me wonder if he's not Thoth or something. It being on the moon, and ways opening to things that sync up makes me think it's not a coincidence.