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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Griffyn612 on October 03, 2020, 06:55:05 PM
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Harry's comments at the end of BG suggest we may see civilian vigilantes taking to the streets. That got me thinking about makeshift weapons against supernatural creatures again, and an update to Harry's paintball gun.
Specifically, the Airsoft Vigilante.
- Airsoft weapons are legal in Illinois but illegal in Chicago, so 'don't get caught' would still be a goal.
- Guns themselves are available in many places, including online.
- Custom ammo could theoretically be made to be lethal to monsters but not humans; in some cases, enough to shred them like paper.
- Iron balls - Sidhe/Faeries
- Garlic balls (holy water plus garlic powder/salt plus pressure to make dense) - Black Court
- Inherited silver balls - Loup garou and maybe others?
- Ghost dust balls - Ghosts
What other ammo could be made to target specific threats? And what other weapons could be made by the general public?
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Capt. Murphy used a shotgun loaded with rock salt to save Rawlins.
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Ask Kincaid. He has special amno for everyone.
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The special ammo we've seen Kincaid use would harm mortals.
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everything you can effectively shoot with a gun harms mortals. an iron ball will certainly kill you.
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I imagine there'll be ruthless vigilantes, and there'll be... ruthful vigilantes?
Basically I'm picturing a group of young people like Fitz banning together and trying to protect people. Fitz'll have Forthhill making holy water without knowing exactly what he's doing with it, and Fitz will make a new band of warriors with non-lethal arms.
The ones with lethal arms would probably be hunted by the cops and Marcone alike.
But what other weaknesses are there that they could target? We know Winter is susceptible to hawthorne, but it and sunlight probably isn't all that packageable. Anything else? Inherited silver bullets?
I'm basically picturing them with airsoft rifles with 300 ball magazines with colored tape on them to differentiate the ammo.
everything you can effectively shoot with a gun harms mortals. an iron ball will certainly kill you.
Yeah, but airsoft weapons are infinitely less likely to kill than a .22, much less a 9mm or higher.
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everything you can effectively shoot with a gun harms mortals. an iron ball will certainly kill you.
Airsoft and rocksalt aren't lethal.
Yeah, but airsoft weapons are infinitely less likely to kill than a .22, much less a 9mm or higher.
It's more about velocity than diameter. Airsoft is pretty close in size to .22lr.
Thinking about it, while I definitely wouldn't want to be hit with steel bird or target shot, it's not very likely to be lethal. Shotguns might be a better alternative to airsoft.
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If it does not kill a mortal it shall not be that effective against all but the weakest supernaturals. An air gun won’t even go through most clothing.
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Airsoft and rocksalt aren't lethal.
It's more about velocity than diameter. Airsoft is pretty close in size to .22lr.
Thinking about it, while I definitely wouldn't want to be hit with steel bird or target shot, it's not very likely to be lethal. Shotguns might be a better alternative to airsoft.
I would imagine there's a big difference being found on the streets with airsoft and being found with a shotgun. Not that a team of vigilantes wouldn't use conventional weapons as needed, but I'm assuming they're trying to toe the line between legal and illegal.
If it does not kill a mortal it shall not be that effective against all but the weakest supernaturals. An air gun won’t even go through most clothing.
Mavra is one of the most powerful black Court sorceresses there is, with power enough to require Eb to shut her down, and she was hurt and ran from garlic from an Italian restaurant.
Aurora was one of the six most powerful Sidhe, and she died from razor blades.
I think having the right weapon would give even vanilla mortals a chance against street-level bad guys. Especially when simple iron will cut through Sidhe flesh like butter, regardless of how tough they are to conventional weapons.
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I would imagine there's a big difference being found on the streets with airsoft and being found with a shotgun.
They could legally carry handguns. It's a real pain to get a license in a Chicago that wasn't just invaded by a Titan and supernatural army, but it's legal. They have handguns that take shotshells. Now, the politics of our world and Dresden's are going to be different after the largest mass casualty event in America sense the Civil War. I'd see either all gun control being completely out the window or doubled down on, so what would be legal to walk the streets of Chicago with would be complete speculation. I don't think it's accurate to base it on what the law was in our Chicago at the same point on the calendar.
Assuming the same laws as in the real world, how illegal are airsoft guns in Chicago? There's a certain point where if you're in for a felony, you might as well turn your AR into a full auto. It's really easy. Select fire may or may not be easy.
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They could legally carry handguns. It's a real pain to get a license in a Chicago that wasn't just invaded by a Titan and supernatural army, but it's legal. They have handguns that take shotshells. Now, the politics of our world and Dresden's are going to be different after the largest mass casualty event in America sense the Civil War. I'd see either all gun control being completely out the window or doubled down on, so what would be legal to walk the streets of Chicago with would be complete speculation. I don't think it's accurate to base it on what the law was in our Chicago at the same point on the calendar.
Assuming the same laws as in the real world, how illegal are airsoft guns in Chicago? There's a certain point where if you're in for a felony, you might as well turn your AR into a full auto. It's really easy. Select fire may or may not be easy.
With the official excuse being "terrorist attack", I can't see the official response being anything other than overreaction to secure the city. Loosening gun control laws or not enforcing them, officially, wouldn't happen.
Cops might not do much enforcement or license checking for handguns, but shotguns and rifles are going to get their attention. People with those weapons feel safe, but everyone else seeing them feel stress. And the city will be very concerned about mass panic.
So if Fitz or someone gets seen with an AR shaped weapon, and they're stopped and found to be carrying a real weapon without permit, they're going to jail. If it's an airsoft, they'll probably get a warning. Sure, it's still illegal, but the cops aren't going to freak out over that unless they mistake them for real.
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With the official excuse being "terrorist attack", I can't see the official response being anything other than overreaction to secure the city. Loosening gun control laws or not enforcing them, officially, wouldn't happen.
Cops might not do much enforcement or license checking for handguns, but shotguns and rifles are going to get their attention. People with those weapons feel safe, but everyone else seeing them feel stress. And the city will be very concerned about mass panic.
So if Fitz or someone gets seen with an AR shaped weapon, and they're stopped and found to be carrying a real weapon without permit, they're going to jail. If it's an airsoft, they'll probably get a warning. Sure, it's still illegal, but the cops aren't going to freak out over that unless they mistake them for real.
You have to keep in mind, it won't be business as usual for the local police. They know. The nation as a whole might manage to accept the explanation, but things will be way different in Chicago. It's really going to be interesting to see how Jim plays this out. It could go either way, with the local authorities playing along with the explanation (maybe with some national presence like Nat Guard and they have to) or not and letting a lot go that they wouldn't have before.
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So if Fitz or someone gets seen with an AR shaped weapon...
What if the minor talents do some minor enchantment that makes them go unnoticed?
You have to keep in mind, it won't be business as usual for the local police. They know. The nation as a whole might manage to accept the explanation, but things will be way different in Chicago. It's really going to be interesting to see how Jim plays this out. It could go either way, with the local authorities playing along with the explanation (maybe with some national presence like Nat Guard and they have to) or not and letting a lot go that they wouldn't have before.
Honestly, that's all a local response. National Guard answers to the Governor. It's usually an urban vs rural thing. If urban swings pro-gun, then Illinois does to.
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What if the minor talents do some minor enchantment that makes them go unnoticed?
Depends on whether or not such things will draw the ire of the White Council. One way or another, they'll be keeping tabs on Harry. But they've still got to keep an iron grip on other talents; otherwise they'll lose credibility. And enchantments that manipulate people's perceptions by a non-Council approved/trained wizard might cross a line.
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I would assume that concern for being caught with an illegal weapon goes out the window when we're off to commit some murder. Taking a toy to go fight some monsters feel to me like a good way to get your face eaten. On the other hand, if you took a good sized hollow point round, 45acp maybe, and added a penetrator like an AP round, something bimetal like the M995 with tungsten and steel, and then filled the cavity of the bullet with holy water and sealed it up... Now we're getting somewhere. Shotgun is still probably superior, but you could lay down a lot of pain with a modern subgun and a round like that.
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I would assume that concern for being caught with an illegal weapon goes out the window when we're off to commit some murder. Taking a toy to go fight some monsters feel to me like a good way to get your face eaten. On the other hand, if you took a good sized hollow point round, 45acp maybe, and added a penetrator like an AP round, something bimetal like the M995 with tungsten and steel, and then filled the cavity of the bullet with holy water and sealed it up... Now we're getting somewhere. Shotgun is still probably superior, but you could lay down a lot of pain with a modern subgun and a round like that.
If you get pulled over or found with illegal AP and hollow-point ammo, the cops aren't going to let you walk away.
And this is theoretically your average Joe citizens trying to be vigilantes, not people with access to military grade ammo. Sure, I'm sure there are civilians that could get it, but the legal risk is very high, and the cops are going to have to be out in force to keep the peace. Especially if there are vigilantes increasing the already considerable gun violence in Chicago.
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If you get pulled over or found with illegal AP and hollow-point ammo, the cops aren't going to let you walk away.
And this is theoretically your average Joe citizens trying to be vigilantes, not people with access to military grade ammo. Sure, I'm sure there are civilians that could get it, but the legal risk is very high, and the cops are going to have to be out in force to keep the peace. Especially if there are vigilantes increasing the already considerable gun violence in Chicago.
M995 isn't legally considered armor piercing. I have some in my room. It wouldn't be my first choice in 5.56 for self defense, but monster hunting would have different priorities depending on the monster. I'm pretty sure hollow points are only illegal in New Jersey.
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M995 isn't legally considered armor piercing. I have some in my room. It wouldn't be my first choice in 5.56 for self defense, but monster hunting would have different priorities depending on the monster. I'm pretty sure hollow points are only illegal in New Jersey.
I think acquiring M995 is pretty difficult and going to cross legal lines, at least for the seller.
And then there's Illinois law.
Illinois prohibits the knowing manufacture, sale, purchase, possession, or carrying of any armor-piercing bullet, dragon's breath shotgun shell, bolo shell, or flechette shell. ... Illinois prohibits the sale, manufacture or acquisition and possession of exploding ammunition.
You'd have to use black tips to really hurt the Sidhe or fairies, because lead isn't going to do much to them. At that point you'd have an easier time hitting them with iron or steel ball beings for cost/round, to say nothing of availability.
In the case of black Court, even AP might not do much other than punch holes to degrade musculature functionality.
And walking around with Airsoft or bb guns is not going to draw as much attention or scrutiny or legal trouble as hollow points or legal/illegal AP.
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I think acquiring M995 is pretty difficult and going to cross legal lines, at least for the seller.
I was thinking about M855. Greentip, not blacktip. :-\
I googled to see if HP's were illegal in Illinois and found out that dragon's breath shot shells are. Someone should have told Harry. ;D I also wouldn't be surprised if greentip was illegal in IL.
You'd have to use black tips to really hurt the Sidhe or fairies, because lead isn't going to do much to them. At that point you'd have an easier time hitting them with iron or steel ball beings for cost/round, to say nothing of availability.
In the case of black Court, even AP might not do much other than punch holes to degrade musculature functionality.
I'd want to go with something with a detachable magazine so I could switch out between loads for different kinds of threats, but I also think shotguns probably have the best ability to load things deadly/harmful to various threats. There aren't a lot of shotguns with detachable magazines.
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I was thinking about M855. Greentip, not blacktip. :-\
I googled to see if HP's were illegal in Illinois and found out that dragon's breath shot shells are. Someone should have told Harry. ;D I also wouldn't be surprised if greentip was illegal in IL.
You might get away with green tip in a rifle in Illinois, apparently, but it's not clear-cut.
I'd want to go with something with a detachable magazine so I could switch out between loads for different kinds of threats, but I also think shotguns probably have the best ability to load things deadly/harmful to various threats. There aren't a lot of shotguns with detachable magazines.
Many airsoft and bb gun options are out there with detachable magazines. And there are enough shotguns compatible with box and drum magazines. Having shells on hand filled with iron shavings and garlic and ghost dust would be very handy.
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I wonder what depleted uranium would do to your barrel.
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Harry's comments at the end of BG suggest we may see civilian vigilantes taking to the streets. That got me thinking about makeshift weapons against supernatural creatures again, and an update to Harry's paintball gun.
Specifically, the Airsoft Vigilante.
- Airsoft weapons are legal in Illinois but illegal in Chicago, so 'don't get caught' would still be a goal.
- Guns themselves are available in many places, including online.
- Custom ammo could theoretically be made to be lethal to monsters but not humans; in some cases, enough to shred them like paper.
- Iron balls - Sidhe/Faeries
- Garlic balls (holy water plus garlic powder/salt plus pressure to make dense) - Black Court
- Inherited silver balls - Loup garou and maybe others?
- Ghost dust balls - Ghosts
What other ammo could be made to target specific threats? And what other weapons could be made by the general public?
I am partial to aerosol things. Powdered garlic, silver or iron in aerosol, holy water steam. Also, fire. Fire burns in this world and in the other.
And for the army, hydrant vehicles could create running water mini streams.