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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Yuillegan on September 07, 2020, 09:43:28 AM
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The theme of nightmares is curious.
When Harry killed the Red Court it caused mass bad dreams for any man or women with even a smidge of talent. I suspect even Agent Tilly had nightmares. Particularly pregnant or new mothers had it the worst.
All the dreams had the same theme: dead children. The world in flames. Terror and destruction sweeping across the globe in an unstoppable wave. Destruction of anything like order or civilisation.
And somewhere, I can't remember how, the nightmares are linked to the Fomor. Does anyone know?
And then of course there is the Nightmare himself, Leonid Kravos' uber-ghost. But who would have given Kravos the knowledge? And it was a particularly curious magic to use. Mavra did seem involved in that story. Not only that, but Kravos (and perhaps his ghost...perhaps not though) was infected by Nemesis.
The theme of the nightmares seems to fit into the plans of the Fomor too.
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Harry was also getting nightmares before mouse arrived iirc. Lilith has aspects of dreams and nightmares...
It's becoming increasingly obvious one of the primary targets of Nemesis and friends is humanity itself, Ethniu actually acts pretty much as I predicted for Nemesis, someone with a chip on their shoulder for humanity taking up the power and the balance..
The night of bad dreams was a Mandela effect I think, Harry explains there's more magic in a babies laugh than in his biggest firestorm, combine that kind of fact with the idea harry is descendant of Merlin directly and Merlin was the start of Mortal Wizardy, and the red court tried to target not just practitioners, but mortal magic itself. If magic failed us, then all those whose lives were created and ran on magic would die, the unborn children..
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I think the nightmares are just the result of a huge amount of dark energy suddenly being released into the world.
The super-powered spell itself, plus... the Red King/Lords of Outer Night don't seem to have had Mantles that passed on. But as Mother Summer points out in SK, that energy can't just disappear. So all their 'godlike' power would presumably have been released into the world.
The connection with the Fomor might just be that the Fomor started acting right then, at the fall of the Red Court... plus the nightmares might be a bit "precognitive", hinting at future disaster in which the Fomor are presumably involved. But I don't think the Fomor had anything to do with causing it.
combine that kind of fact with the idea harry is descendant of Merlin directly and Merlin was the start of Mortal Wizardy
I don't think either of these is known. There's a line of teaching/apprenticeship going from Merlin to Harry through Eb; that doesn't mean Eb (and therefore Harry) is biologically descended from Merlin.
And Merlin founded (or perhaps re-founded, given that it was around in classical times) the White Council and wrote the Laws of Magic - but nothing's ever suggested that he created wizardry itself. Mortal magic seems to be just a natural function of humanity in the DV... lots of people have a trace of talent, a few have more, 1 in a million or so are Council level.
And there were pre-Council organizations of wizards and practitioners in other parts of the world back when the WC was just Europe/the Mediterranean. I don't think Merlin was that central.
I mean with time travel I guess he could have founded everything - but it's never been suggested.
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I remember reading somewhere that they had something to do with it. But I can't for the life of me find it, so perhaps I am mistaken.
It's always sort-of been assumed that the release of dark magic from the spell caused it. But I am not so sure. Perhaps the act of killing the Red Court massively moved the universe Harry is in the direction of a certain timeline.
I agree though that Merlin wasn't the start of magical learning. He merely reformed the status quo. It seems that before he did things were very volatile and political and chaotic. He ordered the supernatural world.
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I don't think either of these is known. There's a line of teaching/apprenticeship going from Merlin to Harry through Eb; that doesn't mean Eb (and therefore Harry) is biologically descended from Merlin.
And Merlin founded (or perhaps re-founded, given that it was around in classical times) the White Council and wrote the Laws of Magic - but nothing's ever suggested that he created wizardry itself. Mortal magic seems to be just a natural function of humanity in the DV... lots of people have a trace of talent, a few have more, 1 in a million or so are Council level.
??? The idea is well known, hence combining fact with idea, Harry's decendancy from Merlin is well discussed here and elsewhere.. and if you look at magical mythos, it always starts with one person. Odin receiving the knowledge of runes, Horus doing the same from his mother, ect. From there you simply have to remember everything is cyclic in the DF, and mortals had to have gotten Wizardy from somewhere and you start looking at what appears to be the oldest cycle... And you come up with Merlin. Course Merlin isn't really Merlin, he's just a place holder for the original version.
You can find good clues in the origins of the Sidhe, the Celtic Druids could command the elements themselves but could not mess with fate, they can conjure by the avatars of the elements, things like the fae originators.. Wizards on the other hand can indeed effect fate, but they should not.
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??? The idea is well known, hence combining fact with idea, Harry's decendancy from Merlin is well discussed here and elsewhere.. and if you look at magical mythos, it always starts with one person. Odin receiving the knowledge of runes, Horus doing the same from his mother, ect.
Well, yeah, but if all those pantheons exist in the DV, does that mean multiple origins of magic?
and mortals had to have gotten Wizardy from somewhere
I don't think they really do have to, though. (Unless you're referring to the original evolution/creation of humanity.)
Magical capability seems to be essentially natural to humans in the DV; wizards are different because they have much more talent, but some degree seems to be standard.
It's said in GS or CD that technically anyone could learn magic, but it's way harder without the Sight. And the Alphas don't seem to have been aware of having magical talent before they met Tera West.
So I think it's just as likely that people figured out how to do magic basically on their own, possibly with help from various local spirits and gods (ie maybe Horus taught somebody in Egypt and Odin taught somebody in Scandinavia) but not with one common origin.
Per WOJ the White Council used to be Europe-centric and wizards in other parts of the world have their own distinct histories... so I don't think there was a single origin of magical knowledge.
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Well, yeah, but if all those pantheons exist in the DV, does that mean multiple origins of magic?
I don't think they really do have to, though. (Unless you're referring to the original evolution/creation of humanity.)
Magical capability seems to be essentially natural to humans in the DV; wizards are different because they have much more talent, but some degree seems to be standard.
It's said in GS or CD that technically anyone could learn magic, but it's way harder without the Sight. And the Alphas don't seem to have been aware of having magical talent before they met Tera West.
So I think it's just as likely that people figured out how to do magic basically on their own, possibly with help from various local spirits and gods (ie maybe Horus taught somebody in Egypt and Odin taught somebody in Scandinavia) but not with one common origin.
Per WOJ the White Council used to be Europe-centric and wizards in other parts of the world have their own distinct histories... so I don't think there was a single origin of magical knowledge.
Salic law is the main reason I disagree. It's clearly an inherited property, genetic even(one theory made a good case for magic being part of the mitochondrial system)
Depends on how those pantheons actually mesh together and repeat. An how/when humanity actually evolved with free choice. Listening to Ethniu, for instance, doesn't lead me to believe they always had the capacity they do now. As much pull as they do on Fate and this would also be the event horizon for them gaining mortal magic as we know it.
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Salic law is the main reason I disagree. It's clearly an inherited property, genetic even(one theory made a good case for magic being part of the mitochondrial system)
Much as I like the series, if Jim introduces midichlorians, I'm out.
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Much as I like the series, if Jim introduces midichlorians, I'm out.
LMFAO! I mean, at least it would make more sense than for the force. Life is at least the source of Magic. The force is supposed to be in all things..
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Salic law is the main reason I disagree. It's clearly an inherited property,
Oh I agree it's inherited. But I think it's "strength of talent" that is inherited, it's not just a yes/no gene.
The things Harry's said about 'anyone could theoretically learn magic but it's vastly harder if you don't have the Sight' makes me think that very few if any people have literally zero talent. It's just that most people aren't aware of it unless they have the Sight or an obvious ability manifests (like Abby's precognition or whatever).
So I think it's more that 'magical talent' is an inherent part of humanity and in any human population you'll get ~1 in a million Council level talents and lots more weaker ones.
And the 'Council level' distinction is artificial, just based on what the White Council's tests are. Carlos even talks about (in WN, I think) that the qualifications might be lowered due to losses in the Vampire War.
genetic even(one theory made a good case for magic being part of the mitochondrial system)
I strongly doubt it. If it were genetic, Charity no longer using magic wouldn't prevent Molly's younger siblings from inheriting the gene.
I think the maternal vs paternal distinction is much more likely a result of exposure to magic in the womb.
And we're told it's "usually" female-line, but if it was mitochondrial it would be 100%. Paternal inheritance does happen sometimes, apparently Eb's wife was a vanilla mortal.
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As I'm sure your aware from discussion of Kings blood. If you go back far enough everyone is related. An I am talking earliest history. Of course everyone has magic, that's the premise behind babies being born 'through' magic. Does not negate the source of method of traversal. Its not genetic alone of course, but it is directly called for across genetics. Molly is pretty easily explained. When she actively used magic it actively made her cells reproduce closer copies, an effect that clearly does not continue when you stop using magic. So her cells were literally suffused with magic when Molly was concieved. What did they say the base number of ppl was to create a while new world? 6 females and 2 males? That still leaves a most direct path back to one of the males.
I believe nothing as far as Eb's wife goes. Jim knew exactly what he was doing when he made Harry's grandfather a wizard AND his mother while also stating magic through Salic law.
An if it's not inherited than the WCV'S actions in WK have absolutely no real value. Tend to think a player in the oblivion war would know better then. Let alone the extended WV's just believing it on a whim. Everything we know of shows 'salic law', and oh 'sometimes it happens another way'. Given we have absolutely no idea what that other people way is it doesn't negate what we know. 'another way' could be as simple as exposure causing genetic mutation in latent genes... Which btw is exactly what's been implied about Molly taking on the Ladies Mantle vs a closer changeling that it should have chosen, per woj. So we actually already have a base for the same thing happening on another clearly genetic line. And... Harry pretty much outright says it about mortals and their hybrids somewhere"those with the blood of the NN". Its all inheritance in the DF, can't think of a single example where someone gets something or has an aspect that's not inherited from somewhere. KotC, scions, changelings, harry taking on DR(which is one of those Merlinian connections well discussed) heck even bigfoot is basically born from dragon's blood per PT, grendelkin? The 'lady' who seduced mortals to make monstrous babies?
What do we have that's /not/ genetic? Even how the person CAN use magic is based upon their physical body.
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As I'm sure your aware from discussion of Kings blood. If you go back far enough everyone is related. An I am talking earliest history.
Ah ok, yeah maybe a supernatural ancestor way back at the beginning...
I still think that magical talent is a fundamentally 'human' thing though. I think there is a difference between how the series portrays wizards/magical practitioners vs. scion-types (Changelings, WCVs, Red Court Infected, etc.) who have some sort of 'Choice' mechanic or bifurcated nature.
Molly is pretty easily explained. When she actively used magic it actively made her cells reproduce closer copies, an effect that clearly does not continue when you stop using magic. So her cells were literally suffused with magic when Molly was concieved.
Yeah I think that's probably about right. There probably is a genetic component but active use of magic and the biological effects of it also play a large role.
IMO this is why magic is 'usually' inherited matrilineally but not 'always'. Genetics + prenatal environment are far more likely to push someone above the threshold where their talent manifests obviously, having the Sight, etc. than genetics alone.
But in the really strong lineages like Eb/Harry you don't need both. Charity was a quite weak talent.
An if it's not inherited than the WCV'S actions in WK have absolutely no real value.
Oh, I think it's "inherited" just not entirely "genetic", the mother actually using magic (not just having the talent/genes) seems to be important from the case of the Carpenters.
Its all inheritance in the DF, can't think of a single example where someone gets something or has an aspect that's not inherited from somewhere.
What about transfer of power from supernatural beings to mortals? Lash gives Harry Hellfire, Uriel gives him Soulfire, I'm pretty sure Harry isn't descended from angels or Fallen...
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Oh, I think it's "inherited" just not entirely "genetic", the mother actually using magic (not just having the talent/genes) seems to be important from the case of the Carpenters.
Charity swore off her magic though and it faded, however the genes for it remained, and Molly inherited them. Now it is interesting that so for the rest of the Carpenter kids either didn't inherit the trait or are ignoring the fact that they have talent.
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@vulture. Oh but that's exactly what Uriel implied when he says"I just made you more of what you already are". I'm not sure hellfire counts the same as he didn't keep it, merely gained access to it, though I imagine as two sides of the same coin it's not unfeasible. So I see that as unlocking latent potential already there.. though exactly how wizards are relative to angels is a mystery still.. they do perform acts of creation and destruction using the very primal forces of the universe, granted on a much smaller scale..
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Charity swore off her magic though and it faded, however the genes for it remained, and Molly inherited them. Now it is interesting that so for the rest of the Carpenter kids either didn't inherit the trait or are ignoring the fact that they have talent.
Molly's the oldest, though. She was conceived (and maybe born) while the magic was still fading. The other kids would have the same genetics, but much less pre-natal exposure.
I think there's zero chance of the other kids "ignoring" magic -- after almost losing Molly in an incredibly traumatic episode that saw Charity throwing on chainmail and marching to the heart of winter, Michael and Charity will be watching the other kids for any sign. (Heck, I'd expect that *Molly* has been watching to other kids for any sign, and there's no chance she'd miss it.)
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Molly's the oldest, though. She was conceived (and maybe born) while the magic was still fading. The other kids would have the same genetics, but much less pre-natal exposure.
I think there's zero chance of the other kids "ignoring" magic -- after almost losing Molly in an incredibly traumatic episode that saw Charity throwing on chainmail and marching to the heart of winter, Michael and Charity will be watching the other kids for any sign. (Heck, I'd expect that *Molly* has been watching to other kids for any sign, and there's no chance she'd miss it.)
Is there? I think it is possible that some could chose to ignore it. If they bought into their mother's views on magic for example, they might. Knowing what happened to Molly when she abused it, they might. If magic talent is genetic, it isn't going to leave her genes even if magic itself fades in the mother. Think of it like a disease that is genetically passed, now the disease itself might be treatable even cured, but the genes that cause it in the first place don't go away, they are still passed on.
What I find interesting is I went back to reread the bit in Changes when Harry kills Susan triggering the nightmares and other events. What is interesting is Harry's mind is totally blanked out for two minutes during all of this. So simply his brain shutting down to protect him from the full horror of what he had just done? Or something else going on?
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Ah. You don't mean "ignore" like not notice or be in denial about it. You mean that some of the other Carpenter kids might have inherited magical potential, realized it, and then made the conscious choice not to develop it.
That's plausible, I guess.
Re: Chichen Itza blackout -- Trauma is definitely plausible. Remember that we're not reading a third-person-omniscient account of events. This is Harry writing down what happened, telling the story as he remembers it.
Or it could be something else. Hard to know what, though. Perhaps he dug so deeply into the Winter Mantle to fight off the Red King's Will attack that he wasn't himself at all for a brief time. (After, Eb says, "Hell of a hard thing to do." and he responds, "It wasn't hard. Just cold.") Remember that he was acting on a bargain he made with Mab -- if he couldn't bring himself to do the deed, to cut out Susan's heart, it's possible that the Bargain took over his free will and made him do it. He bargained for the power and the time to save his daughter, and he believed that this was the only way to do it.
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Ah. You don't mean "ignore" like not notice or be in denial about it. You mean that some of the other Carpenter kids might have inherited magical potential, realized it, and then made the conscious choice not to develop it.
Yeah, sorry I wasn't clearer on that, but especially after the problems with Molly if Charity did come clean about it with the rest of her children. You can bet she told them that her talent faded with lack of use. However as I write that, I am wondering, did she ever put that to the test? She might be assuming something that isn't true at all.
Or it could be something else. Hard to know what, though. Perhaps he dug so deeply into the Winter Mantle to fight off the Red King's Will attack that he wasn't himself at all for a brief time. (After, Eb says, "Hell of a hard thing to do." and he responds, "It wasn't hard. Just cold.") Remember that he was acting on a bargain he made with Mab -- if he couldn't bring himself to do the deed, to cut out Susan's heart, it's possible that the Bargain took over his free will and made him do it. He bargained for the power and the time to save his daughter, and he believed that this was the only way to do it.
I doubt that, his free will remained, and I think he cut her throat not cut out her heart. He did believe it was the only way to save his daughter, but it was still his choice to do it. Also there was the realization possibly later rationalization that Susab was no longer human when he did it. If she was, the spell reversal wouldn't have worked.
page 419 Changes, Susan had killed Martin and is in the process of changing. Harry tells her that the Red King wanted to kill Maggie because he death would kill him and Eb, then tells her that she is the youngest vamp and her death can kill them all. Actually it becomes Susan's choice in a way.
Susan looked back at me, her eyes streaming her last tears. "Harry, help me," she whispered. "Save her. Please."
Everything in me screamed no. That this was not fair. That I should not have to do this.
But. . . I had no choice.
Not his choice because he was being compelled to do it by the Winter Mantle, but because in order to save little Maggie, himself, and Eb, he had no other choice than to cut Susan, now the youngest vampire's throat.
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Woj is Harry doesn't remember because his mind does not want to remember what happened.
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Woj is Harry doesn't remember because his mind does not want to remember what happened.
Which makes sense, this is how the brain protects itself from a major trauma. Not just cutting her throat, which apparently he hasn't forgotten, but perhaps her full transformation to vampire, then her death, which he doesn't seem to remember.
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Is there? I think it is possible that some could chose to ignore it.
There's a WOJ that they didn't inherit magic specifically because Charity stopped using her talent, though.
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@vulture. Oh but that's exactly what Uriel implied when he says"I just made you more of what you already are".
I don't think that's really what Uriel means. I think he's speaking more metaphysically, about Soulfire being powered by your soul and therefore by What You Really Are on the deepest level... it's all part of the Free Will/Choice shaping your soul aspect of things that the Heaven/Hell conflict is focused on.
I'm not sure hellfire counts the same as he didn't keep it, merely gained access to it, though I imagine as two sides of the same coin it's not unfeasible. So I see that as unlocking latent potential already there..
Bob describes the Hellfire thing as being powered by a bit of Lasciel's energy in Harry's head, forming the Lash shadow (when they're discussing Lash's "death" at the end of WN). And the description of Bonea's origin also seems pretty clear that there was actually part of Lasciel's energy/essence in Harry's head.
I think the Winter Mantle is basically the same thing, just with more power and less consciousness (it has emotional effects but can't converse like Lash).
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I don't think that's really what Uriel means. I think he's speaking more metaphysically, about Soulfire being powered by your soul and therefore by What You Really Are on the deepest level...
🤔 that does not compute.. but if soul is What You Really Are, than the similarities are magnified by that. Angels are All soul, if soul is what you really are, then are you not an angel?
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🤔 that does not compute.. but if soul is What You Really Are, than the similarities are magnified by that. Angels are All soul, if soul is what you really are, then are you not an angel?
There is a theory I believe that says humans are very like angels except for the free will.
There's a WOJ that they didn't inherit magic specifically because Charity stopped using her talent, though.
That doesn't make sense on a scientific level to begin with. Also by that logic Molly shouldn't have any talent either.
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🤔 that does not compute..
I might not have phrased that right.
What I meant is that it's not "Soulfire doesn't give you any capabilities you didn't already have", but more like "Magic is already based on who you fundamentally are, even more than normal choices; using Soulfire takes that to an even greater degree".
Angels are All soul, if soul is what you really are, then are you not an angel?
Uriel says "You are a soul, you have a body" (which is a C. S. Lewis quote, IIRC).
Angels are only a soul, they don't even have bodies (as I understand it, Uriel's human form in SG was created for that special case, or transformed from his normal soul-stuff existence, or whatever).
That doesn't make sense on a scientific level to begin with.
Not if the inheritance of magic is more environmental than genetic.
Also by that logic Molly shouldn't have any talent either.
WOJ on this:
https://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-magic-in-the-dresden-files-part-2/
what’s critical to this particular equation is the fact that Charity was consciously and deliberately neglecting her talent–which hadn’t been all THAT hot to begin with. She went through the time she got engaged to Michael, all the way through Molly’s term, all the intervening time, etc, before she got to Daniel. It had been more than two, maybe three years since she’d done anything with her magic by the time Daniel was conceived.
and
Charity was, essentially, stacking up environmental factors against her unborn children developing their genetic propensity for magic into a real, tangible gift to the point where the chances of them actually doing it were negligible.
This is a case where the environmental influence overwhelms the genetic one.
The occasional patrilineal inheritance, eg Eb -> Maggie Sr, is presumably one where the prenatal environment was less important since Eb is an extremely strong talent so it would take much more to drop it "below threshold".
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Not if the inheritance of magic is more environmental than genetic.
That doesn't work in the case of Molly verses her siblings because I doubt that Charity used any magic after she married Micheal. Environmental would imply that Charity continued to use magic up until and after Molly's birth, she didn't.
This is a case where the environmental influence overwhelms the genetic one.
The occasional patrilineal inheritance, eg Eb -> Maggie Sr, is presumably one where the prenatal environment was less important since Eb is an extremely strong talent so it would take much more to drop it "below threshold".
Again, that doesn't work. I won't go into Margaret since we have little to no information as to what her childhood was like until her talent awoke. However we do have Harry as an example, Margaret died when he was born, Malcolm had no magical talent, earned a living using illusion and slight of hand to entertain. He dies, Harry spends time in an orphanage and foster homes, no magical talent exposure until his talent awakens on it's own, no environmental factors. There is also the example of Thomas, his mother maintained her talent during his first six or eight years until she left him for Malcolm.. Lord Raith has some talent as well I think or under some powerful influence aside from his Hunger, yet Thomas has very minor talent, actually almost none.
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That doesn't work in the case of Molly verses her siblings because I doubt that Charity used any magic after she married Micheal. Environmental would imply that Charity continued to use magic up until and after Molly's birth, she didn't.
I don't think that is compatible with the WOJ I linked/quoted above, though. That really does make it sound like time since Charity stopped using magic is the critical difference between Molly and the others.
He dies, Harry spends time in an orphanage and foster homes, no magical talent exposure until his talent awakens on it's own, no environmental factors.
I'm talking about prenatal environment - whether one's mother had the biological effects of magic going on (at the time of the pregnancy).
Per WOJ Charity will have lost the extended lifespan... but presumably the improved healing and stuff don't go away instantly. It probably takes a couple of years to fade.
Sure magic doesn't manifest immediately at birth, but I think that's just a maturity thing.
yet Thomas has very minor talent, actually almost none.
There's a WoJ that White Court don't get as strong magically as regular human wizards, so I think there is some interference from the vampire/Hunger side.
Also, I think you're understating what Thomas has. "Almost none" doesn't seem accurate; from what he says in Backup he hasn't put all that much time and effort into developing it. He seems to imply that training/time/effort is the major difference (comparing it to a six-month course vs a graduate degree).
I'm sure his talent is less strong than Harry's (very exceptional) one, probably not full Council level even if he really developed it, but it's way more than what a normal human has.
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I don't think that is compatible with the WOJ I linked/quoted above, though. That really does make it sound like time since Charity stopped using magic is the critical difference between Molly and the others.
But if she stopped when she married or just before during courtship, I see no difference.
I'm talking about prenatal environment - whether one's mother had the biological effects of magic going on (at the time of the pregnancy).
Then Thomas should have as much as or even more talent than Harry, and he doesn't. I also doubt that Charity was practicing any magic while she was pregnant with Molly.
Per WOJ Charity will have lost the extended lifespan... but presumably the improved healing and stuff don't go away instantly. It probably takes a couple of years to fade.
However that doesn't explain Molly having talent and not the others. I think they all have it, but not being as rebellious as Molly or buying perhaps more into their mother's doctrine since she married, they have chosen not to use it. Perhaps if it isn't used when it manifests itself, it goes away? We will have to wait and see as little Harry gets a bit older.
lso, I think you're understating what Thomas has. "Almost none" doesn't seem accurate; from what he says in Backup he hasn't put all that much time and effort into developing it. He seems to imply that training/time/effort is the major difference (comparing it to a six-month course vs a graduate degree).
It's been a while since I read Backup, but if I remember correctly Thomas said that all humans are capable of doing some elementary magic if they are taught how, he was doing a tracking spell. Not unlike Butters who was able to make a magic circle under Harry's instruction.
I'm sure his talent is less strong than Harry's (very exceptional) one, probably not full Council level even if he really developed it, but it's way more than what a normal human has.
That is debatable, Thomas has the same genetic background as Harry, Margaret and Eb, so he should potentially be as talented and as strong as Harry. Now you could be right that the Hunger blocks some of that, but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense either.
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However that doesn't explain Molly having talent and not the others.
Sure it could... if it takes say 3 years to fade after you stop using magic, and Michael/Charity were dating for a year and engaged for a year...
Anyway what else could that WoJ mean?
Not unlike Butters who was able to make a magic circle under Harry's instruction.
I think any mortal can do that, it doesn't require either talent or skill in manipulating magic energy.
Harry says learning magic without the Sight is like someone who's blind learning to paint. A quick explanation wouldn't cut it.
Now you could be right that the Hunger blocks some of that, but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense either.
That seems to be the implication of the WoJ that White Court magic doesn't get as strong as human, but they can do some impressive things by mixing magic with their Hunger.
I don't see why it shouldn't make sense - the Hunger is a spiritual symbiote or parasite basically, why shouldn't it affect how a potential Whampire's magical potential develops?