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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: prince lotore on July 16, 2020, 06:06:09 PM

Title: What if its not Thomas
Post by: prince lotore on July 16, 2020, 06:06:09 PM
we are told its Thomas but every time someone sees him there is a disclaimer that he is so messed up that they cant be sure.  what if he is a Trojan horse to get onto the island?
Title: Re: What if its not Thomas
Post by: dresden11 on July 16, 2020, 06:17:27 PM
I think it was strange everyone just automatically assumed it was him.  Everyone also assumed immediately that Justine was being pressured so Thomas could do the assassination.  These are the immediate assumptions that have no basis in the story at all.  I would also point out that the Fomor have no reason at all to have caused this assassination.  The Fomor are about to kick off a war where their empress does not care if there is any infighting among the Accords.  So they have no reason to try to cause infighting.  The war is going to happen anyway. 

I have seen the idea that Eb might have messed with Thomas' mind to cause the assassination since he hates White Court and did not seem impressed with the Dwarves either.  This explanation would at least give every character clear motives. 
Title: Re: What if its not Thomas
Post by: Mira on July 16, 2020, 06:41:15 PM

I think Lara would know if it wasn't Thomas.
Title: Re: What if its not Thomas
Post by: Grifter on July 16, 2020, 07:10:36 PM
Yeah, she was feeding him on the boat. You think she would have known if there was something weird about his aura/power.
Title: Re: What if its not Thomas
Post by: prince lotore on July 16, 2020, 07:52:19 PM
all im saying is that he only mumbles Justine and is badly hurt. then they say that his demon might be in control and that he isn't Thomas any more.  That makes me see a sucker punch coming. And maybe Laura is part of it
Title: Re: What if its not Thomas
Post by: vultur on July 16, 2020, 08:32:41 PM
Shapeshifters and illusions are a thing in the DV. Normally I would expect Harry and Lara to spot an impostor, but Thomas wasn't able to converse or act normally, so they couldn't really spot inconsistencies in his behavior.

Yeah, she was feeding him on the boat. You think she would have known if there was something weird about his aura/power.

Probably, but that might depend on how good the imitation was. A good enough shapeshifter might be able to fake even that. I think only the Sight is 100% for this kind of thing.
Title: Re: What if its not Thomas
Post by: Bad Alias on July 17, 2020, 03:41:11 AM
The Fomor are about to kick off a war where their empress does not care if there is any infighting among the Accords.  So they have no reason to try to cause infighting.  The war is going to happen anyway.
I think they'd be thrilled with infighting. They whole point of announcing the invasion the way they did was to get them not to fight so those willing to fight got picked off one at a time.
Title: Re: What if its not Thomas
Post by: Grifter on July 17, 2020, 04:00:48 AM
I think they'd be thrilled with infighting. They whole point of announcing the invasion the way they did was to get them not to fight so those willing to fight got picked off one at a time.
It wouldn't surprise me if the ghouls were a plant to help sow doubt after the attack, to try to get everyone to follow them out and abandon the accords.  And they'll likely turn against the others during the battle.  Notice that they didn't volunteer for and jobs.
Title: Re: What if its not Thomas
Post by: Second Aristh on July 17, 2020, 04:17:20 AM
It wouldn't surprise me if the ghouls were a plant to help sow doubt after the attack, to try to get everyone to follow them out and abandon the accords.  And they'll likely turn against the others during the battle.  Notice that they didn't volunteer for and jobs.
In that crowd, they're the cannon fodder with little to no personal power.  Even the White Court could probably threaten them directly.  It's hard to blame them for wanting to disappear after seeing what happened to Mab.

Also, as a point of personal power, Ethniu forced Ferrovax to introduce her with sheer force of will.  Somebody on the Mab list.
Title: Re: What if its not Thomas
Post by: KurtinStGeorge on July 17, 2020, 04:12:46 PM
Shapeshifters and illusions are a thing in the DV. Normally I would expect Harry and Lara to spot an impostor, but Thomas wasn't able to converse or act normally, so they couldn't really spot inconsistencies in his behavior.

Probably, but that might depend on how good the imitation was. A good enough shapeshifter might be able to fake even that. I think only the Sight is 100% for this kind of thing.

Yes, and Goodman Grey is in town and working for Harry, but he could be also be working for someone else.  However, before anyone starts to agree with that idea; as Grifter pointed out, Lara was feeding Thomas some life force energy.  A really good shapeshifter; playing a badly mauled and uncommunicative Thomas, might be able to fool even Lara but it wouldn't be able to do any White Court vampire tricks.  I don't see how Lara could feed any energy to a non-White Court vamp, unless that shapeshifter was also a type of incubus or succubus.  There's nothing to indicate the Naagloshii have that ability.

So just to be clear, I'm not seeing a fake Thomas here.
Title: Re: What if its not Thomas
Post by: Bad Alias on July 17, 2020, 07:10:31 PM
When the Naagloshii eat their opponents, they take their power.
Title: Re: What if its not Thomas
Post by: Grifter on July 17, 2020, 07:43:46 PM
I think the most telling thing is that Demonreach didn't consider Thomas a threat.  If he were actually a Naagloshii, Demonreach would have been like, ah, you want him in the Skinwalker wing?
Title: Re: What if its not Thomas
Post by: Conspiracy Theorist on July 17, 2020, 07:47:03 PM
scenario

Eb seeks out Thomas to warn Thomas off, things go bad and Thomas lets slip that Eb is his grandfather (Lara knew all along) and that he is about to be a great grandfather to another White Court Vampire. Eb is furious, he could kill Thomas outright (as he tried with Harry) but instead whammy’s Thomas to attack Etri after the Accords Truce starts with the aim of starting a war between the White Court and the Swartalves, to aid in wiping out the Whamps.

Thomas after being beaten has broken Ebs Whammy over him, his concern is for Justine and their unborn child who he rightly thinks that Eb will also try to kill because the child is a Whamp. Thomas warns Harry to protect Justine from Eb

Eb doesn’t realise that Harry knew all along about Thomas, he thought under his prejudice.  Harry must therefore die to keep the secret, leaving Maggie to Eb. Goodman Grey catches Eb trying to kill Justine and the child, probably posing as Justine, probably using his (Chekov’s) shotgun from earlier books rather than magic, so as to leave no signature.
Title: Re: What if its not Thomas
Post by: vultur on July 17, 2020, 08:57:21 PM
Yes, and Goodman Grey is in town and working for Harry, but he could be also be working for someone else.  However, before anyone starts to agree with that idea; as Grifter pointed out, Lara was feeding Thomas some life force energy.  A really good shapeshifter; playing a badly mauled and uncommunicative Thomas, might be able to fool even Lara but it wouldn't be able to do any White Court vampire tricks.  I don't see how Lara could feed any energy to a non-White Court vamp, unless that shapeshifter was also a type of incubus or succubus.  There's nothing to indicate the Naagloshii have that ability.

TC does imply that naagloshii feed on/gain power from fear as well as absorbing magical power from those they kill. Given that White Court vampires can switch over what emotion they feed on (Madrigal Raith switching to fear), the mechanism of naagloshii fear-feeding and White Court vampire emotion-feeding could be the same.

Also, I'm not sure we can rule out shapeshifting being good enough to imitate these sorts of supernatural traits.

I *doubt* "Thomas" in PT is a shapeshifter, but I don't think we can rule it out. Grifter is probably right that a naagloshii would have been noticed by Demonreach, but there are other possibilities. The phobophages/fetches in PG had fairly "real" forms.
Title: Re: What if its not Thomas
Post by: KurtinStGeorge on July 18, 2020, 05:39:35 PM
I want to take the OP and change it a bit.  I firmly believe that it's Thomas on the island and not some impostor.  However, that doesn't mean there wasn't the use of an impostor for Thomas.  (This almost deserves to be it's own thread.)  I'm sure some of you know where I'm going with this but I want to start off with some basic facts.

Evanna told Harry that cameras show Thomas making the attack, but Harry hasn't seen that video.  Harry hasn't seen the weapons the assassin used.  So much happened, but no one outside of the swartalves themselves have seen the evidence.

Harry mentions that Thomas is very good in close combat situations.  We seen that at Chichen Itza and elsewhere.  What we've also seen is that Thomas is comfortable using firearms and he is especially skilled with the use of edged weapons.  I don't recall him using explosives.  Maybe someone can find an instance when he has, something I've forgotten about, but it would be an outlier event.

The assassin starts his assault with a explosions, plural.  Perhaps as a distraction it's plausible that is something Thomas might have done.  We are not certain how the assassin tried to kill Etri, we just know the Austri put himself in the way and died as a result.  (Or at least, that's the official story.)  So what did the assassin do?  Throwing an explosive device, say a grenade, at Etri isn't really Thomas' style.  He could have shot at Etri, but whatever type of weapon was used, when Austri went down, why didn't the assassin follow up?  However the attack was made, Thomas should have had a blade of some type to follow up his initial attack.  We don't know exactly what happened after Austri died, but the assassin was quickly subdued after that because Etri didn't appear to be badly wounded.  If Thomas had gotten close to Etri, the Swartalf should have taken some nasty slashing or stab wounds but had none that Harry could see.  I find it a little too convenient that Mr. Etri wasn't killed or even badly wounded.

One other fact to mention.  Harry mentions that the swaralves allowed their anger to control them and beat Thomas to the point where he could barely speak when they should have been questioning Thomas, trying to find out why he attacked Etri and who he was in league with.  What if that wasn't an accident, what if it was part of the plan?   

So how do I picture this going down?  Thomas was sent a message to go see Evanna immediately.  The message didn't have to come from her but other than Gedwig, she's the best suspect.  Thomas needs to feed anyway so he swallows the bate and goes.  When he arrives, Thomas is jumped and beaten, or perhaps more likely, he's drugged first and then severely beaten.  The assassin is a shapeshifter.  The attack may not have even been meant to kill Etri.  The real assassin is grabbed and dragged away but it's all a show and he is quickly released.  An unconscious Thomas is shown to Etri who is told that the assassin refuses to give out any information. 

So here's my explanation of why this may have happened as I described.  This could be part of a larger game to isolate Harry.  Take out one of his most reliable and dangerous allies.  Alienate Harry from the people who currently shelter him.  Make him more vulnerable.  This could be Mab's and maybe even Lara's doing, but it could also be an Outsider / Black Council plot.  The reason I mention Lara is I don't recall her being angry or even slightly disturbed by the fact that she has to use her favors to rescue Thomas, rather than use them to accomplish some other scheme she was working on.  What doesn't fit, or at least as yet it doesn't fit, is I don't see what Lara would get out of it.  I totally understand why Mab or his Black Council enemies might want to isolate Harry.     
Title: Re: What if its not Thomas
Post by: Grifter on July 18, 2020, 05:50:14 PM
I do wish Butcher had made this more of a case file.  With a little more, Harry could have investigated things better.  He could have reviewed the footage, interviewed the survivors, and done the things that will now likely be impossible in the second half (interviews and reviewing footage seems unlikely in ongoing battle and power loss across the city).

That way it would have felt like a story, with Harry coming to some conclusions (that may have been wrong) and ultimately deciding to rescue Thomas as a conclusion to that arc.  Then the second book would be about the battle, with some additional info dropping for the case.
Title: Re: What if its not Thomas
Post by: Mira on July 18, 2020, 05:59:09 PM
I do wish Butcher had made this more of a case file.  With a little more, Harry could have investigated things better.  He could have reviewed the footage, interviewed the survivors, and done the things that will now likely be impossible in the second half (interviews and reviewing footage seems unlikely in ongoing battle and power loss across the city).

That way it would have felt like a story, with Harry coming to some conclusions (that may have been wrong) and ultimately deciding to rescue Thomas as a conclusion to that arc.  Then the second book would be about the battle, with some additional info dropping for the case.

Yeah, there were parts that were really good, the writing we'd expect from Butcher, however it seemed overly "sketchy" if that is the right word to me.  It jumped around, everyone seems to be pissed at Harry, so what else is new? However we've no why for any of it.  Out of the blue Thomas decides to assassinate a head of state, seemingly no connection made to anything as to why. Even the rescue jumps around a lot.. So Peace Talks, what are they after?  Why wasn't the Merlin there? Where is Ancient Mai?  Why all of a sudden with the exception maybe of Cristos the Senior Council look and act like nursing home runaways..
Title: Re: What if its not Thomas
Post by: Second Aristh on July 18, 2020, 06:04:34 PM
I agree.  Explosions are not Thomas's style, and it's hard to believe that Thomas decided to assassinate Etri at the center of his power without an escape strategy.

I think it's more plausible that Thomas was in the wrong place at the wrong time.  If Thomas is in the room with Etri at the same time that an "assassination attempt" happened and if the real attacker disappeared, the svartalves would assume they caught the assassin.  (Also, I can't find the on-camera part.  Was the attempt caught on camera?)

Overall, it put this one at the BC's feet instead of Lara or Mab (if they don't know the family relationship, it's easy enough to assume Harry would help a frequent ally).  It's an easy distraction setup for Harry so they can get him indirectly.
Title: Re: What if its not Thomas
Post by: Grifter on July 18, 2020, 06:06:11 PM
Yeah, there were parts that were really good, the writing we'd expect from Butcher, however it seemed overly "sketchy" if that is the right word to me.  It jumped around, everyone seems to be pissed at Harry, so what else is new? However we've no why for any of it.  Out of the blue Thomas decides to assassinate a head of state, seemingly no connection made to anything as to why. Even the rescue jumps around a lot.. So Peace Talks, what are they after?  Why wasn't the Merlin there? Where is Ancient Mai?  Why all of a sudden with the exception maybe of Cristos the Senior Council look and act like nursing home runaways..
I totally get that he didn't intend for this to be two books, so all of those things are unanswered in the first half. But I wish there'd been an opportunity to adjust accordingly once the decision was made to split it.
Title: Re: What if its not Thomas
Post by: Mira on July 18, 2020, 06:29:22 PM
I totally get that he didn't intend for this to be two books, so all of those things are unanswered in the first half. But I wish there'd been an opportunity to adjust accordingly once the decision was made to split it.

Yes,  what is sad, depending on how the battle goes down in the next, these questions won't be answered.  It almost seems like Jim couldn't decide if the book was going to be about rescuing Thomas, without any attention to his motivations, which is usually the point of the mystery, one leading to the other.  The title of the book is Peace Talks, yet the theme seems secondary to rescuing Thomas, until the climax when the Fomor show up, but until that point no sense of what was on the line as far as the Accords go.  Just what were Marcone, Mab, and company expecting?
Or why suddenly Harry has become a pariah, and if he was considered such why in the hell would he be on the Warden Security team?  One step further I wish Jim had done a chapter on the meeting the Wardens had before the first party..  He dismisses it in the first line of the chapter dealing with the first get together as boring... However if they went into just what the problem is with Harry and why they are still allowing him to be on the team, I think it would have been very interesting.
Title: Re: What if its not Thomas
Post by: morriswalters on July 18, 2020, 11:50:13 PM
The first book had to be Peace Talks, they had already announced it, six years ago, and they released the first chapter.

There are too many characters in the book to this point, which makes the book thin in terms of the time spent with them. Normally Harry would be calling on his allies and bringing them together. He's got Murphy, he's lost Thomas and he's pissed off Lara. Rashid is at the gate.  He wasted time on the debacle that is Butter's elevation to Knight by making him more buff and giving him a ménage à trois in an attempt to lend him weight he hasn't earned in the text. Not to mention nerfing the sword. 
Title: Re: What if its not Thomas
Post by: KurtinStGeorge on July 19, 2020, 01:50:31 AM
I agree.  Explosions are not Thomas's style, and it's hard to believe that Thomas decided to assassinate Etri at the center of his power without an escape strategy.

I think it's more plausible that Thomas was in the wrong place at the wrong time.  If Thomas is in the room with Etri at the same time that an "assassination attempt" happened and if the real attacker disappeared, the svartalves would assume they caught the assassin.  (Also, I can't find the on-camera part.  Was the attempt caught on camera?)

Overall, it put this one at the BC's feet instead of Lara or Mab (if they don't know the family relationship, it's easy enough to assume Harry would help a frequent ally).  It's an easy distraction setup for Harry so they can get him indirectly.

Lara told Harry that Thomas was caught on camera making the assassination attempt.  So either it was Thomas, an impostor or perhaps someone under a veil and Thomas's reaction was misinterpreted as the attack.  I think an impostor is more likely, but we have so little to go on, it's difficult to do more than guess. 

The first book had to be Peace Talks, they had already announced it, six years ago, and they released the first chapter.

There are too many characters in the book to this point, which makes the book thin in terms of the time spent with them. Normally Harry would be calling on his allies and bringing them together. He's got Murphy, he's lost Thomas and he's pissed off Lara. Rashid is at the gate.  He wasted time on the debacle that is Butter's elevation to Knight by making him more buff and giving him a ménage à trois in an attempt to lend him weight he hasn't earned in the text. Not to mention nerfing the sword.

It's almost as if Bob was changing Butter's personality rather than the other way around; and yes, it does feel forced rather than being a natural progression of events.  Also, this may come off as sexist, but if your girlfriend is the one who wants a three way; and I believe Andi and Marcie were an item before Andi was with Kirby, then things aren't really improving; that's just a temporary illusion, because you are about to be written out of the script.  That aside, wasn't Andi supposed to be an emotional wreck?  That's the way Butters description of her came off in Skin Game.  Now she's not just back to normal, she's boldly experimenting with her personal and sexual relationships.  The whole thing feels off.

The sword being nerfed wasn't a surprise to me because I heard Jim talk about that very thing.  It was either in an interview Jim did on someone's YouTube channel or it was at a Con that he did at least a year ago.  In fact, it might have been at the Con I saw Jim at last July.  (What a difference a year makes.)

I sense a pattern is forming:

The young wardens who were once Harry's closest friends and supporters on the White Council no longer trust him.  (And not for anything Harry has done.  A least in Summer Knight you can understand how some wizards would be P.O.'d that Harry's actions dragged them into a war with the Red Court.)
Thomas' attempt to assassinate the king of the Swarthalves; if it was Thomas, makes no sense.
Lara doesn't seem to care that whatever carefully laid plan she was going to use Harry to make happen was derailed by Thomas; and she has to use the two favors Harry (Winter) owed her to rescue Thomas rather than execute whatever her original plan was.   
Butters is having a ménage à trois with Andi and Marcie.
Ebenezer tries to save Harry from the machinations of the White Court of vampires by killing him.

I've figured it out and now I know what's going on.  Everyone except Harry, Murphy and Winter are acting against their nature and are all Nemfected. :P

Actually, even Mab got sucker punched because didn't see the Fomor betrayal and power play coming, so her too.
   
Title: Re: What if its not Thomas
Post by: morriswalters on July 19, 2020, 02:51:25 AM
I think the whole point of the book was to get Thomas in that cell.  Maybe the idea was to kill Thomas and break Maggie's curse?  This plays to Proven Guilty where the main action looks to be doing one thing when in fact it is doing something else.  That is, making it look like the idea is to kill Etri when the idea was to have Thomas end up dead.
Title: Re: What if its not Thomas
Post by: Hagbard Celine on July 19, 2020, 03:04:36 AM
My theory:  It definitely *was* Thomas.  Some combination of Mab, Lara, and Marcone are involved.  When Lara and Mab appear in the back of Harry's car, Mab informs Harry that Lara had earned THREE favors.  One of them is already paid.  (Thomas' attack and/or allowing Thomas to be framed for the attack).  That leaves TWO favors for Harry to fulfill.  (Which both Lara and Mab now will result in Thomas being rescued).  I think (as others do) that Marcone *had* to be involved because the transfer to the BFS basement (which happens to be Harry's old lab) is too much of a coincidence.

Ultimately, it may be this whole thing was done for Thomas' own good.  If Butcher's version of the Hounds of Tindalos are also attracted to time travel, that opens up a whole different can of worms as to why they were outside Justine's building. 
Title: Re: What if its not Thomas
Post by: Mira on July 19, 2020, 03:15:58 AM
The first book had to be Peace Talks, they had already announced it, six years ago, and they released the first chapter.

There are too many characters in the book to this point, which makes the book thin in terms of the time spent with them. Normally Harry would be calling on his allies and bringing them together. He's got Murphy, he's lost Thomas and he's pissed off Lara. Rashid is at the gate.  He wasted time on the debacle that is Butter's elevation to Knight by making him more buff and giving him a ménage à trois in an attempt to lend him weight he hasn't earned in the text. Not to mention nerfing the sword.

Not to mention ectoplasmic sneezes that wasted a few paragraphs along with the very active sex life of Waldo Butters...
Quote
I think the whole point of the book was to get Thomas in that cell.  Maybe the idea was to kill Thomas and break Maggie's curse?  This plays to Proven Guilty where the main action looks to be doing one thing when in fact it is doing something else.  That is, making it look like the idea is to kill Etri when the idea was to have Thomas end up dead.

However why that is was never gotten across... 
Quote
The young wardens who were once Harry's closest friends and supporters on the White Council no longer trust him.  (And not for anything Harry has done.  A least in Summer Knight you can understand how some wizards would be P.O.'d that Harry's actions dragged them into a war with the Red Court.)
Thomas' attempt to assassinate the king of the Swarthalves; if it was Thomas, makes no sense.
Lara doesn't seem to care that whatever carefully laid plan she was going to use Harry to make happen was derailed by Thomas; and she has to use the two favors Harry (Winter) owed her to rescue Thomas rather than execute whatever her original plan was.   
Butters is having a ménage à trois with Andi and Marcie.
Ebenezer tries to save Harry from the machinations of the White Court of vampires by killing him.

I've figured it out and now I know what's going on.  Everyone except Harry, Murphy and Winter are acting against their nature and are all Nemfected. :P

Actually, even Mab got sucker punched because didn't see the Fomor betrayal and power play coming, so her too.
   

Yeah, I saw that pattern as well, I see it more like there is this three hundred and forty page pudding stirring in a pot.  One or more of the ingredients is off, either the amount  put in or somehow you miss took baking soda for corn starch, so no matter how hard you stir it will never thicken or taste right.
Title: Re: What if its not Thomas
Post by: KurtinStGeorge on July 19, 2020, 07:37:41 AM
My theory:  It definitely *was* Thomas.  Some combination of Mab, Lara, and Marcone are involved.  When Lara and Mab appear in the back of Harry's car, Mab informs Harry that Lara had earned THREE favors.  One of them is already paid.  (Thomas' attack and/or allowing Thomas to be framed for the attack).  That leaves TWO favors for Harry to fulfill.  (Which both Lara and Mab now will result in Thomas being rescued).  I think (as others do) that Marcone *had* to be involved because the transfer to the BFS basement (which happens to be Harry's old lab) is too much of a coincidence.

My joking aside, I agree with what you've said here.  I forgot about Marcone, but if only from the trailer, we know that the crime boss and Mab are still working together.  However, it's difficult for me to figure out exactly how Lara benefits from all this.  She puts herself and Thomas at considerable risk to pull off this stunt, so the potential payoff should be commensurately large to justify the risk.  Whatever Lara may get out of this, I'm guessing Harry won't like it. 

Ultimately, it may be this whole thing was done for Thomas' own good. 

Someone said (I don't remember if it was in this thread.) this is Thomas' redemption arc.  If Thomas is ever going to carry the Sword of Faith, feeling all the pain he has caused and being forced to contemplate his past actions will be the thing that helps to truly redeem him.  Anyway, it make sense to me.

If Butcher's version of the Hounds of Tindalos are also attracted to time travel, that opens up a whole different can of worms as to why they were outside Justine's building.

Wait, what?  Did I skip a page in the book or is this from a short story?  Oh, you mean the corner hounds.  Never mind.  Now that think about it, whose been time traveling?  That's who the Hounds of Tindalos would be after.  Never mind again.  I see what you mean by a can of worms. 

I just had an odd thought.  I've can recall discussions on this forum (the original forum really) from several years ago about the possibility of Harry having to time travel back to events of Proven Guilty; not to change the past, to prevent someone else; who went back first, from changing the past.  I think the general idea was Cowl or some other known enemy of Harry would be the person Harry would be chasing.  Maybe Ebenezer McCoy is the person Harry will have to chase.  I guess that's a WAG for another novel.

Not to mention ectoplasmic sneezes that wasted a few paragraphs...

That did seem lame, didn't it?

However why that is was never gotten across... 
Yeah, I saw that pattern as well, I see it more like there is this three hundred and forty page pudding stirring in a pot.  One or more of the ingredients is off, either the amount  put in or somehow you miss took baking soda for corn starch, so no matter how hard you stir it will never thicken or taste right.

I think this points to the weakness of splitting the story into two books.  If we had the whole thing; we (hopefully) would be impressed how Jim misdirected us in the early going only to later cleverly reveal what actually happened and why.  As we stand now, after finishing Peace Talks, I have a very similar feeling to the one I got after seeing the second Matrix movie.  If you don't remember; and I wouldn't blame you for forgetting because it was such a letdown of a movie, that movie ended on a not very interesting cliffhanger, with the personality of Agent Smith stuck inside someone's (I don't even remember which character) comatose mind; and you knew he was going to do bad things when he woke up.  I remember the general feeling was, "Really, you're going to make us wait until the third movie to see how this plays out?"

We only have to wait a little more than two months, but it's like watching a magician performing half of a trick and then stopping.  So there's no satisfying payoff and we are given a lot of time; way more than we need or want, to dissect and comment on the misdirection.  If Jim did succeed in tying up everything nicely in Battle Ground, by the time we get to it, we may have run down what we have already read to the point that we won't appreciate it as much as would have in a straight forward read through.
Title: Re: What if its not Thomas
Post by: Hagbard Celine on July 19, 2020, 07:48:22 AM
Maybe Ebenezer McCoy is the person Harry will have to chase.

That's a frightening thought.  If the Blackstaff can break the laws of magic, it's entirely possible that the ban on time travel may be right up there.  If Eb is as irrational as he seems, it's entirely possible.  I think someone had a WAG years ago that Harry would break all of the laws of magic at one point or another. 

Also, is Mirror Mirror definitely the next Dresden book?  If that's the case, is it possible that some of the characters in this book have been replaced by alternate versions? 
Title: Re: What if its not Thomas
Post by: Bad Alias on July 19, 2020, 05:49:43 PM
He could have reviewed the footage, interviewed the survivors, and done the things that will now likely be impossible in the second half (interviews and reviewing footage seems unlikely in ongoing battle and power loss across the city).
I wonder if the power is even out at the Svartalf embassy. They set the place up to withstand a wizard's tech wrecking effect. I doubt it will come up at all. Grifter's quoted sentence just made me think of it.

I think someone had a WAG years ago that Harry would break all of the laws of magic at one point or another.
Yeah. His name was Jim Butcher.  ;)

Also, is Mirror Mirror definitely the next Dresden book?  If that's the case, is it possible that some of the characters in this book have been replaced by alternate versions? 
That'd be an interesting tie into the "next" book. I'd prefer Jim give Harry some time to do some stuff like find a home, rebuild his gear, and maybe train with River Shoulders.
Title: Re: What if its not Thomas
Post by: Second Aristh on July 19, 2020, 06:31:36 PM
We already know in Mirror Mirror that Harry is going to get summoned by Nega-Harry as a scape-goat.  I don't think there are alt!universe people running around at the moment.
Title: Re: What if its not Thomas
Post by: Grifter on July 19, 2020, 07:28:58 PM
I wonder if the power is even out at the Svartalf embassy. They set the place up to withstand a wizard's tech wrecking effect. I doubt it will come up at all.
We may or may not find out, but we shouldn't have had to wait.  Even if Harry doesn't doubt that it was Thomas there, he should have wanted to see the event to see if there was something being missed. Something to suggest that he was going for someone else, or moving to help.