ParanetOnline
The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: raidem on June 27, 2018, 07:49:17 PM
-
Ok. We have Murphy as the reason why Harry ends up using Charity's blood to locate Molly via Little Chicago. She was the one who brings up the idea to Harry. Then later, Bob reflects on the missed flaw in LC. Immediately after wondering who fixed it, Murphy steps in. Now of course I'm not saying nonMantled Murphy did it of course. I do however argue that a Mab/Murphy did. I was listening to the story on audible and it stood out to me as a weird juxtaposition.
“Oh,” he said. “I found something wrong with Little Chicago’s design.”
I swallowed. “Oh. Wow. Bad?”
“Extremely. We missed a transition coupling in the power flow. The stored energy was all going to the same spot.”
I frowned. “That’s… like a surge of electricity going through a circuit breaker, right? Or a fuse box.”
“Exactly like that,” Bob said. “Except that you were the fuse. That much energy in one spot will blow your head off your shoulders.”
“But it didn’t,” I said.
“But it didn’t,” Bob agreed.
“How is that possible?”
“It isn’t,” he said. “Someone fixed it.”
“What? Are you sure?”
“It didn’t fix itself,” Bob said. “When I looked at it a few nights ago, the flawed section was in plain sight, even if I didn’t recognize it at the time. When I looked again tonight, it was different. Someone changed it.”
“In my lab? Under my house? Which is behind my wards? That’s impossible.”
“No it isn’t,” Bob said. “Just really, really, really, really, really, really difficult. And unlikely. He would have had to know that you had a lab down here. And he would have had to know how to get around your wards.”
“Plus intimate knowledge of the design to tinker with it like that,” I said. “To say nothing of the fact that he would have to know it existed at all, and no one does.”
“Really, really unlikely,” Bob agreed.
“Dammit.”
“Hey, I thought you loved a good mystery, Harry.”
I shook my head and started to tell him where to stick his mystery when someone knocked at the door.
Murphy stood on the other side and smiled at me. “Hey.” She held up my shotgun. “Thomas wanted me to bring this by. Said to tell you he was getting his own toys from now on.”
And Bob keeps saying "He." Later on in the book, Eb reminds Harry "or she" in regards to who is behind the black council, etc but it can be applied here to.
-
Oh, and while we are on Proven Guilty. I'm going to speculate that Larry Fowler, who I think is a member of the supernatural community himself. We have woj about some Greek gods going the wrestling route for fame. It would makes sense for some god to go the talk show host route too. Anyways, I'm thinking that maybe Larry Fowler may have been involved in PG as his name comes up a couple of times in it, when he really doesn't need to come up at all. He may have been involved in Arctis Tor attack.
I also think that Mab may have identified one Nemesis agent as Glau and this is why Scarecrow killed him quick. Who knows there may have been multiple nemesis agents in play at the convention, most trying to subvert Molly or get her executed failing that. Had she been executed you know Harry and Michael would have gone nuts.
-
I thought it was Mab acting as Lea, seems obvious to me. She even left a nice comic to read.
-
Well, my theory/connection goes one step further in proposing Murphy as the fixer. (as Mab.) The juxtaposition may support a Murphy connection.
-
Dear God.
-
Dear God.
He is not allowed to fix little chicago. It was Harry's free willed decision to make the thing in the first place. Mab however acting as Lea could. Especially since she was a guest in his home.
-
But a helping hand has been extended before(heh). It could happen. Intimate knowledge of the design is needed however. That or omniscience. Not just intellectus.
-
Just pure B.S. ::)
-
Well, Mab could have commanded Bob to have fixed it and forced Bob to forget it.
It could go well with Little Chicago ending up being saved by Mab, for later use by Harry.
-
Well, Mab could have commanded Bob to have fixed it and forced Bob to forget it.
It could go well with Little Chicago ending up being saved by Mab, for later use by Harry.
I do not think she could. Mab was in Harry's appartment and bound to the laws of hospitality. She had to be a good guest. Commanding Bob to do something both Bob and Harry wouldn't want is against that.
-
Well, Thomas persuaded Bob to do something for him. I guess Mab could have done something similar, but I think Mab could have done what needed to be done without Bob in the mix.
-
Well, I do hope you all agree it is juxtaposed. To what purpose beyond nothing...
Dear God.
Actually one of my previous theory had Mac involved. And one of my theories about Mac is that he is the god of the universe in some fashion.
-
Well, Thomas persuaded Bob to do something for him. I guess Mab could have done something similar, but I think Mab could have done what needed to be done without Bob in the mix.
Thomas is not bound to hospitality laws the same way Mab is.
-
Why does it have to be Mab/Murphy and not just plain ol' Mab? Other than of course that everything Mab does is Murphy and vice versa.
-
It was Mister who fixed L.C., not that he meant to, he did it accidentally by walking across it and
dropping cat hair in the right place. Cats are good at that sort of thing.
-
I do not think she could. Mab was in Harry's appartment and bound to the laws of hospitality. She had to be a good guest. Commanding Bob to do something both Bob and Harry wouldn't want is against that.
Well in theory if Mab/Murphy showed up, and she acted as Murphy, and not as Mab she wouldn't have to follow the rules of hospitality.
-
If she acted as Murphy, she's got neither the knowledge to fix the thing, nor the power to compel Bob.
Nor, again, any reason to need to be Murphy for Mab to fix LC.
And I'm not entirely sure Mab can actually fix mortal magic. Fae magic seems to be built on a different foundation, and it may require a different skill set to fix the various intricacies of LC.
-
If she acted as Murphy, she's got neither the knowledge to fix the thing, nor the power to compel Bob.
Nor, again, any reason to need to be Murphy for Mab to fix LC.
And I'm not entirely sure Mab can actually fix mortal magic. Fae magic seems to be built on a different foundation, and it may require a different skill set to fix the various intricacies of LC.
Hmmm Unless she's helping in the time travel in which she went back with Dresden, uncover the plot to murder him, and Dresden himself fixes it.
-
If she acted as Murphy, she's got neither the knowledge to fix the thing, nor the power to compel Bob.
Nor, again, any reason to need to be Murphy for Mab to fix LC.
And I'm not entirely sure Mab can actually fix mortal magic. Fae magic seems to be built on a different foundation, and it may require a different skill set to fix the various intricacies of LC.
I think they are based on the same foundation and skill set, the Fae are just better at it.
Lea was teaching Molly.
Eldest Gruff thought Harry could teach him something.
If you can teach you can understand what someone does wrong.
-
The foundations/underlying principles are the same I think, but Fae magic plays by different rules.
For example, Harry's duster would still work against an opponent with a steel knife, but Lea's superior Magic wouldn't, because Faerie.
-
I still vote for Evil Bob!!!
APG
-
I still vote for Evil Bob!!!
APG
Motive?
-
Hmmm Unless she's helping in the time travel in which she went back with Dresden, uncover the plot to murder him, and Dresden himself fixes it.
Yeah. That crossed my mind too, except I'd say she convinced Bob to do it. Or had another Bob (TT Bob or otherwise) do it.
-
Why does it have to be Mab/Murphy and not just plain ol' Mab? Other than of course that everything Mab does is Murphy and vice versa.
Well, in this case the juxtaposition may point to Murphy. I mean, Murphy fits the bill for some of these things:
He would have had to know that you had a lab down here. And he would have had to know how to get around your wards.”
“Plus intimate knowledge of the design to tinker with it like that,” I said. “To say nothing of the fact that he would have to know it existed at all, and no one does.”
“Really, really unlikely,” Bob agreed.
“Dammit.”
“Hey, I thought you loved a good mystery, Harry.”
I shook my head and started to tell him where to stick his mystery when someone knocked at the door.
Murphy stood on the other side and smiled at me.
Couple that with the fact that Murphy was Bob's custodian for awhile. It seems reasonable to assume that she could in the future gain access to him again. Therefore gaining all the required checks on the mystery list. And we all mostly agree that Proven Guilty likely will be revisited in the Time Travel book. And we have time travel in Proven Guilty which ends with Murphy getting demoted for her absence while at Arctis Tor where she lost a day. Where best to have Murphy and allies inserted into Earth via time travel, where her/their earlier selves had to vacate a day on a trip to Arctis Tor.
-
Couple that with the fact that Murphy was Bob's custodian for awhile. It seems reasonable to assume that she could in the future gain access to him again. Therefore gaining all the required checks on the mystery list. And we all mostly agree that Proven Guilty likely will be revisited in the Time Travel book. And we have time travel in Proven Guilty which ends with Murphy getting demoted for her absence while at Arctis Tor where she lost a day. Where best to have Murphy and allies inserted into Earth via time travel, where her/their earlier selves had to vacate a day on a trip to Arctis Tor.
But she wasn't Bob's custodian before the time that L.C. was fixed.. I don't agree that the events in Proven Guilty will be revisited in time travel... Even if possible one of the rules of time travel is you cannot go back and alter stuff... This sets off unintended consequences, yeah, you may be fixing one thing but you could be making something else a hundred times worse for a lot of people etc... Then again, that would be very Harry like..
-
The point is however that if there is time travel, she has been the 'owner' of Bob and could interact with him similar to the instance in which Thomas interacts with Bob in a short story. Therefore, Murphy could interact, via TT or without, with Bob telling him to fix something. Perhaps, Bob has some sort of dissociative disorder that he isn't even aware of. Murphy is able to speak to him without the other Bob part knowing. We do know that Bob has cut off parts of his personality to create other Bob's so he is very similar to the psychological disorder: dissociative identity disorder. Add to that he adopts the personality of new owners, there is a strong case that he does have a dissociative disorder.
-
The point is however that if there is time travel, she has been the 'owner' of Bob and could interact with him similar to the instance in which Thomas interacts with Bob in a short story. Therefore, Murphy could interact, via TT or without, with Bob telling him to fix something. Perhaps, Bob has some sort of dissociative disorder that he isn't even aware of. Murphy is able to speak to him without the other Bob part knowing. We do know that Bob has cut off parts of his personality to create other Bob's so he is very similar to the psychological disorder: dissociative identity disorder. Add to that he adopts the personality of new owners, there is a strong case that he does have a dissociative disorder.
I wouldn't exactly call her an "owner," she was the executrix of Harry's will, that doesn't make her the owner, nor does being "custodian" make her the owner anymore than being custodian means one owns the Holy Swords.. She quickly handed the skull into the care of Butters..
-
She owned it for that time. She plausibly had it in hand. It would answer to her. Who knows what conversation she had with Bob. She clearly knew what it was because she didn't want it in the hands of Molly. And Bob did give her an assist in Changes defending her against the psychic onslaught of the Red King and the Lords of Outer Night. I'm thinking she is aware of that too.
You quibble with nomenclature but you miss the mark. Cowl "owned" Bob for a bit while he had possession of the skull, particularly when he had it in hand.
-
I think a time traveling Harry with Maggie or Bonnie fixed Little Chicago. the evidence is that harry finds a Calvin and hobs comic book in his lab and has no idea how it got there. I don't think that the author would ad this detail unless it was important. my interpretation is that who ever fixed Little Chicago left behind the comic book. I think the book belongs to Maggie or Bonnie.
-
I agree that whoever fixed Little Chicago left behind the comic book. And, it likely is a hint of Bonnie's upcoming existence unless the Calvin and Hobs comic book contains some magical treatise that Harry might need to read.
-
yes probably it belongs to bonnie for sevral reasons.
1. Maggie was not even a character that Jim had thought about having at the time he wrote proven guilty.
2. Bob is in to romance novels so it would make sense that bonnie a younger version of Bob who at this point is a child would be into reading Calvin and hobs as opposed to a romance novel
-
A Calvin and Hobbes book was left behind, and Harry has no idea how it got there? That is interesting, and must mean something or why even have it there?
Could Elaine have left it behind as a clue? Like she knew Harry loved it when they were kids?
-
Calvin and Hobbes are clearly winter alligned.
http://www.zimbio.com/Calvin+and+Hobbes/articles/Cp4pkUw4kz7/10+Times+Calvin+Hobbes+Proved+Winter+Most
-
I always preferred the theory that it was a subtle hint (from Lea maybe?) about the hobs that were about to show up.
-
I believe Ms. Duck had the theory that Mab left it there.
-
I believe Ms. Duck had the theory that Mab left it there.
The onlusten alternatieve is Kringle hut Mab is far more likely.
-
I always preferred the theory that it was a subtle hint (from Lea maybe?) about the hobs that were about to show up.
That's an interesting idea. I don't know how that could be brought up at this point without time travel, though. I mean... if we see it happen, cool. But we've got to see it unfold on the page, I think. I doubt the average reader will be able to even remember the book was there this late in the series.
-
I always preferred the theory that it was a subtle hint (from Lea maybe?) about the hobs that were about to show up.
Lea was in ice at the time but Mab was playing Lea when needed.
-
Maybe, it was literally Calvin and Hobbes who participated in the fixing of Little Chicago. Or it was Mab directing them, him, to fix it. Then they left the comic book of themselves as a hint.
Molly will end up with her second being some Calvin/Hobbes character.
-
Just randomly throwing it out, but my most likely suspect is Ivy.
The quote goes into detail about how the person would have to have intimate knowledge about the plans for LC, how to bypass the wards, etc. - almost as if they could read and perfectly understand the written wards and plans as they were put up.
Also, Ivy was probably about the right age at that point to read Calvin and Hobbes.
Plus, Harry gave her a name. It's been made pretty clear that that is a Big. Deal.
Presumably, Harry and Bob went over written plans for LC as they were designing and building it - since it's written, Ivy knew about it, and since she is the Archive, she would have known about the flaw. Because she knew what would happen if the flaw weren't fixed, she fixed it.
-
Maybe, it was literally Calvin and Hobbes who participated in the fixing of Little Chicago
(https://media.giphy.com/media/glmRyiSI3v5E4/giphy-downsized-large.gif)
-
Think of a Fae resembling Calvin. Anyways, it was a throw away idea.
Going with the Archive idea though, it could work. She was brought up in PG as Harry did call her and left a message on answering service asking for leads on black magic I think. One of my WAG's have Bonnie as some sort of prototype for the Archive in some TT event back in the past. So, the Archive participating in fixing Little Chicago saving her 'prototype' self is bit complicated TT plot that appeals to me.
Anyways, I still think the juxtaposition outlined by the OP means something. So there is a Murphy connection to fixing Little Chicago in some way.
-
Think of a Fae resembling Calvin. Anyways, it was a throw away idea.
Going with the Archive idea though, it could work. She was brought up in PG as Harry did call her and left a message on answering service asking for leads on black magic I think. One of my WAG's have Bonnie as some sort of prototype for the Archive in some TT event back in the past. So, the Archive participating in fixing Little Chicago saving her 'prototype' self is bit complicated TT plot that appeals to me.
Anyways, I still think the juxtaposition outlined by the OP means something. So there is a Murphy connection to fixing Little Chicago in some way.
Actually it could be that the Archive saved Harry. She would certainly have the intelligence to do so, and her leaving the book behind could be a clue, or she simply left it by accident while down there.
-
Lea was in ice at the time but Mab was playing Lea when needed.
I believe Ms. Duck had the theory that Mab left it there.
Good point, it would have been Mab filling in for Lea's obligations.
I think it's pretty likely that she fixed Little Chicago too. Lea set up her garden on the NN side of Harry's apartment and protected him from tons of threats. Since Mab was required to fill in for Lea's godmother obligations for years, she almost certainly would have been familiar with it.
And Fae can get through thresholds if they mean no harm (and I don't think Harry's wards would have stopped a direct NN entrance from Lea's garden).
-
Good point, it would have been Mab filling in for Lea's obligations.
I think it's pretty likely that she fixed Little Chicago too. Lea set up her garden on the NN side of Harry's apartment and protected him from tons of threats. Since Mab was required to fill in for Lea's godmother obligations for years, she almost certainly would have been familiar with it.
And Fae can get through thresholds if they mean no harm (and I don't think Harry's wards would have stopped a direct NN entrance from Lea's garden).
There wouldn't have been a threshold from the never never, would there? And in any case Mab was pulling Harry's strings from the beginning, wasn't she? Up to and including Rashid's knowledge of Black Magic in Chicago, possibly. Plus.
“That’s the part I can’t figure,” I said. “I think someone set Molly up to be a beacon for the fetches. And I’m damned sure that it was no accident that those fetches took Molly to Arctis Tor when it was so lightly defended. Someone wanted me there at Arctis Tor.”
And Harry was the only person Mab could control, who could toss the Hellfire, which would force her troops from the borders thus giving Summer a chance to intervene for the Wizards. And showed Harry his first look at Nemesis through it's possession of Lea. ;)
-
Slight correction, that was Summer Fire, not Hellfire Harry threw, which was given to him by Lily. So either Mab was working with her on that, or Mab didn't control every aspect of everything.
-
There wouldn't have been a threshold from the never never, would there?
Mab can just enter anyone's home as long as she behaves like a proper guest. See Cat Sith's explanation in Cold Days.
-
Also Harry is her bitch, so she probably had a standing invite until he settled his debt. (well, he wound up being even more in her debt by becoming her knight, but, y'know)
-
Also Harry is her bitch, so she probably had a standing invite until he settled his debt. (well, he wound up being even more in her debt by becoming her knight, but, y'know)
With the Knighthood maybe, that one has a lot more far-reaching and ill-defined obligation attached to it. But the Favors were very specific, even if it was backed by the Lea-link thanks to his broken oaths.
-
Slight correction, that was Summer Fire, not Hellfire Harry threw, which was given to him by Lily. So either Mab was working with her on that, or Mab didn't control every aspect of everything.
Oops. :-[ I stand corrected. Maybe. But isn't his fire always laced with hellfire while Lash is on board? Another thing to check with my next rereading. If he doesn't get Peace Talks out soon I'm going to have My Dresden library memorized. :-\
-
Oops. :-[ I stand corrected. Maybe. But isn't his fire always laced with hellfire while Lash is on board? Another thing to check with my next rereading. If he doesn't get Peace Talks out soon I'm going to have My Dresden library memorized. :-\
Not always or innately, it has a specific visual change when he taps it, but by the end og things he'd gotten used to tapping it for just about everything.