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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: groinkick on June 23, 2018, 01:09:46 AM
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When Dresden was using his Sight on Victor Sells home he changed.... Here is a glimpse of it:
"I prepared to destroy the lake house, the Shadowman, and any of the pathetic underlings he had with him. With such power, I could cast my defiance at the Council itself, the gathering of white-bearded old fools without foresight, without imagination, without vision. The Council, and that pathetic watchdog, Morgan, had no idea of the true depths of my strength. The energy was all there, gleeful within my anger, ready to reach out and reduce to ashes all that I hated and feared."
Someone (his mom?) intervened and snapped Harry from this. I believed that this was either Harry's own taint from the black magic he'd used in the past, or the corruption of the place. However now I'm wondering if it was Nemesis... Nemesis doesn't seem to force people to do things, but to use their own feelings, and twisting the person into wanting to act a certain way. Also part of Harry snapping out of it was him saying his full Name similarly to how he used it against Before.
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Unless the WOJ that the first Nemesis character seen directly 'on stage' appeared in GP was a misdirect, I kind of doubt Sells was personally infected, and I don't see why a pool of Nemesis would be hanging around his house if he wasn't infested himself.
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I don't think so, I think that Nemesis is a lot more limited then We've been allowed to see so far, and can't just spread around willy-nilly.
The most likely answer to me is exactly what you said- the negative energy of the place itself combined with the marks already on Harry's soul caused him to get drunk on the dark side fpr a second before recovering himself.
Which explains a lot about how the bad-guys in the DF act, really.
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My guess is that the outsider contagion was present in all of the books, and Nemesis might be able to peak in and influence those people, but we didn't see anyone possessed by Nemesis.
For that matter, I don't know that we saw a Nemesis possession until Summer Knight, when Lea was already under the influence.
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I've never been able to decide how I felt on that one. On the one hand dark magic and Nemesis are certainly connected, on the other I see no real reasoning why Nemesis would step in to protect Harry here from being influenced by the seething mass of dark magic around sells house. How, cosmologically, that might be enabled or reasoned out or why She'd care. I'm more of an opinion it was his mother, but the two are not mutually exclusive necessarily.... I mean If Morgana's Atheme has a main line connection to N and Margaret is the spiritual successor to the Le Fay name, then I could see her being the influential person mirroring the original and ergo connected similar to Molly's connection to the WL position. But that still wouldn't explain a lot about the situation.
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I've never been able to decide how I felt on that one. On the one hand dark magic and Nemesis are certainly connected, on the other I see no real reasoning why Nemesis would step in to protect Harry
I wasn't saying that Nemesis protected him. I was saying that Nemesis was trying to get Harry to go bad, burn the home to ashes with everyone in it, and to become a warlock.
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Was it Lea who connected Sells, the FBI agents and riling up the ghosts(?) as sharing an origin?
I figure that Nemesis was behind them, if not shown "on screen." Agents of Nemesis tainting Sells and Denton etc... And that probably we saw the process happening at the party in GP.
Right now it's hard to tell because we don't really know how much direct influence Nemesis has and how much "thought" it has or if it just feeds certain desires and ideas someone already has.
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Was it Lea who connected Sells, the FBI agents and riling up the ghosts(?) as sharing an origin?
That's the impression I got
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Was it Lea who connected Sells, the FBI agents and riling up the ghosts(?) as sharing an origin?
I figure that Nemesis was behind them, if not shown "on screen." Agents of Nemesis tainting Sells and Denton etc... And that probably we saw the process happening at the party in GP.
Right now it's hard to tell because we don't really know how much direct influence Nemesis has and how much "thought" it has or if it just feeds certain desires and ideas someone already has.
No, it was Lily in Cold Days in the botanical garden meeting.
“A disease. A parasite. A poison. Sir Knight, you must have seen it. You must have seen the contagion spreading. It has been before your eyes for years. It is a kind of spiritual malady. A mental plague. An infection slowly spreading across the earth. It changes that which ought not change. It destroys a father’s love for his family by twisting it into maniacal ambition. It distorts and corrupts the good intentions of agents of mortal law into violence and death. It erodes the sensible fear that keeps a weakly talented sorcerer from reaching out for more power, no matter how terrible the cost."
“Victor Sells the Shadowman. Agent Denton and the Hexenwolves. Leonid Kravos the Nightmare. My first three major cases.”
“Yes. Each of them was tainted by the contagion. It destroyed them.”
“Fourth case. Aurora. A champion of peace and healing who set out to send the natural world into havoc.”
“I saw what it did to her. I didn’t know what was happening to my friend, but I saw it changing her. Twisting her day by day. I loved Aurora like a sister, Sir Knight. But in the end, even I could see what she had become.”
My take is that Lily was right, and that Maeve hadn't fed her a lot of misinformation. But that doesn't mean that Lily or the rest fully understand Nemesis.
My guess is that there's a corruption that can and is spreading through humanity that weakens the Super-Ego and leaves its victims with a boosted Id (sound familiar?). That's what has corrupted the mortals, and Nemesis can use it as a doorway to whisper into the minds of the corrupted.
But I also think Nemesis isn't as powerful as most people seem to think. I think Nemesis is the third Walker (Beside) and I like to speculate that Nemesis can only infect/possess three beings at a time; specifically those that lack the free will to prevent it. Once mortals go far enough, they can be possessed by Outsiders, but that's not really what we've seen so far.
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My opinion is Nemesis IS the corruption. It sounds much like Hastur from Lovecraft
"Hastur (The Unspeakable One, Him Who Is Not to be Named, Assatur, Xastur, H'aaztre, or Kaiwan) is an entity of the Cthulhu Mythos. "
Hastur's main weapon is to instill insanity in it's victims minds. The people often create a symbol that they show to other people, and supposedly anyone who sees the symbol is capable of being influenced by Hastur.
I do agree that it's not all powerful. It may be similar to being connected to a Coin. Most people seem to succumb, but if the will is there they can refuse it.
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Was it Lea who connected Sells, the FBI agents and riling up the ghosts(?) as sharing an origin?
I figure that Nemesis was behind them, if not shown "on screen." Agents of Nemesis tainting Sells and Denton etc... And that probably we saw the process happening at the party in GP.
Right now it's hard to tell because we don't really know how much direct influence Nemesis has and how much "thought" it has or if it just feeds certain desires and ideas someone already has.
I'm not sure who exactly, but Lily, Harry himself and Rashid have listed Victor sells as one of the oddities happening lately.
I think that groinkick is correct. Upstart sorcerer who had access to more power and training than he should have, it's either Nemesis's work directly, or one of the circle. Which is more of the same.
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I think that Sells was being helped by the Red Court myself.
He used the same spell as they used in Changes for his murders, plus his attacks were aimed at Marcone (who was at the time competing for turf with Bianca IIRC).
Whether this was part of Nemesis's plans, just a general push for more chaos, or something that the Ramps came up with themselves might be up for debate
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Maybe not in person, but those who are working towards the same ends..
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This spread of Nemesis across the earth reminds me of the dissonance cast against Demonreach. Let me juxtapose some of the passages.
“A disease. A parasite. A poison. Sir Knight, you must have seen it. You must have seen the contagion spreading. It has been before your eyes for years. It is a kind of spiritual malady. A mental plague. An infection slowly spreading across the earth. It changes that which ought not change. It destroys a father’s love for his family by twisting it into maniacal ambition. It distorts and corrupts the good intentions of agents of mortal law into violence and death. It erodes the sensible fear that keeps a weakly talented sorcerer from reaching out for more power, no matter how terrible the cost."
“Victor Sells the Shadowman. Agent Denton and the Hexenwolves. Leonid Kravos the Nightmare. My first three major cases.”
“Yes. Each of them was tainted by the contagion. It destroyed them.”
“Fourth case. Aurora. A champion of peace and healing who set out to send the natural world into havoc.”
“I saw what it did to her. I didn’t know what was happening to my friend, but I saw it changing her. Twisting her day by day. I loved Aurora like a sister, Sir Knight. But in the end, even I could see what she had become.”
“Merlin didn’t build the prison five times,” Bob said. “He built it once. In five different times. All at the same time.” I felt my brows knit. “Uh. He was in the same place, doing the same thing, in five different times at once?” “Exactly.” “That does not make any sense,” I said. “Look, a mortal jail is built in three dimensions, right? Merlin built this one in four, and probably in several more, though you can’t really tell whether or not he built it in a given dimension until you go there and measure it, and the act of measuring it will change it, but the point is: This is really advanced stuff.” I sighed. “Yeah. I’m getting that. But what’s wrong?”
The shot zoomed out, rising up to give a top-down view of the island, which became a blurry shape. A familiar five-pointed star blazed itself across the surface of the lake, its lines so long that the pentagon shape at its center enfolded the island entirely. Within the pentagon, a second pentacle formed, like the first one drawn in the manner to preserve and protect. The camera tightened in, and I saw that the second pentagon enfolded the entire hilltop where the cottage and ruined tower lay. The camera tightened more, and I saw more pentacles drawn, this time not flat but at dozens of intersecting angles, their centers encircling the dozen tunnels full of evil beings beneath the island. “These,” Bob said, “represent the original enchantments on the island. This is vastly simplified, of course, but the basic star-and-circle architecture is the same as the work you do, Harry.” Then the design blurred and increased, growing denser and more delicate and more brilliant in power, until something twinged in my brain and I had to look away from the diagram. “Yeah, sorry about that, boss. This is meant to represent the entanglement of the spells being delivered at different times.”
“No wonder it was so complicated,” I muttered. “And it’s even worse than this,” Bob said. “I’m filtering it down for you. And here’s the problem.” I forced myself to look back at the projection, and saw those millions upon millions of spells resonating with one another, spreading and interlocking into an impenetrable barrier. It was, I thought, somehow like watching crystals grow. The spells powering the actual construction of it hadn’t been, alone, too much stronger than some of the work I had done—but when they’d been interconnected with their counterparts across time, they’d fed upon one another, created a perfect resonance of energy that had become something infinitely greater than the sum of its parts. Then I saw the dissonance appear. Bob had chosen to show it as a sullen red light that began to pulse lightly at the westernmost edges of the great design. It began as something faint, but then, like an oncoming headache, started to throb into something larger and more noticeable. Where scarlet and blue light touched, there were ugly flares of energy—flares that I had been sensing ever since I’d gotten to the island. Before long, that scarlet pulse had spread to half the island, and then, abruptly, the screen went white. Text at the bottom read, NOVEMBER 1. “By tomorrow,” I said. “Super. But I still don’t see what is wrong, Bob.” “Energy hits it,” Bob said. “A directed burst of energy, a whole lot of it. It unravels the whole containment spell Merlin laid down and triggers the fail-safe.” “FIRE,” rumbled Demonreach. “I figured that one out, thanks,” I said. “But nothing has actually happened to the spells yet?”
“Nope,” said Bob. “That tension that’s building? It’s . . . Well, think of it as cause and effect, only backward.” “Huh?” “What the island is experiencing now is the echo of the moment that burst of energy strikes it,” Bob said. “Only instead of the echo happening after, it’s happening first.” I stopped and thought. “You’re telling me that the reason the island is about to blow up is . . . because it’s about to blow up?” Bob sighed. “Someone hits the island with energy, Harry. But they’ve figured out how Merlin put this place together. They aren’t attacking it in three dimensions. They’re attacking in four. They’re sending power through time as well as through space.” “So . . . I have to stop them from attacking the island tomorrow?” “No,” Bob said, exasperated. “You have to stop them from attacking whenever it is that they actually attack.”
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What I argue is that Nemesis, or more of it, was (or was meant to have been more fully) inserted into the world via the attack on Demonreach. There may have been similar attacks at other times on Demonreach. One of these times the Gatekeeper may have participated in and in that event more of, or Nemesis crept into our reality. And, Demonreach holds a grudge that a mistake Gatekeeper made, allowed it.
So I'm saying that Nemesis spread is similar or comes from same energy as the attack projected on Demonreach that allows the dissonance. The Nemesis spread on Earth is analogous to the dissonance spread on Demonreach. It is as if somewhere in reality, Demonreach may have fell or was weakened by the power used against it.
If the Knights or more specifically HWWB servers the Lord of Slowest Terror, Nemesis may be some sort of projection of his body, influence into our world.
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I'm not sure who exactly, but Lily, Harry himself and Rashid have listed Victor sells as one of the oddities happening lately.
I think that groinkick is correct. Upstart sorcerer who had access to more power and training than he should have, it's either Nemesis's work directly, or one of the circle. Which is more of the same.
Considering the WOJ about the first N-fected host appearing in GP, I'd lean heavily toward the second interpretation, that Sells, Denton and Kravos were pawns of a background player who's the true N-fected host. A skilled warlock or vampire with even moderate mental influence capabilities wouldn't find it particularly hard to warp a couple of self-taught small time practitioners and a vanilla into cat's paws.
Was it Lea who connected Sells, the FBI agents and riling up the ghosts(?) as sharing an origin?
If you meant that in the sense of was Lea the master who manipulated all three, I don't think it likely she was secretly infected way before receiving the athame.
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I meant in the sense of making the connection for Harry. But apparently I was thinking of Lily, as folks mentioned.
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What I argue is that Nemesis, or more of it, was (or was meant to have been more fully) inserted into the world via the attack on Demonreach. There may have been similar attacks at other times on Demonreach. One of these times the Gatekeeper may have participated in and in that event more of, or Nemesis crept into our reality. And, Demonreach holds a grudge that a mistake Gatekeeper made, allowed it.
So I'm saying that Nemesis spread is similar or comes from same energy as the attack projected on Demonreach that allows the dissonance. The Nemesis spread on Earth is analogous to the dissonance spread on Demonreach. It is as if somewhere in reality, Demonreach may have fell.
If the Knights or more specifically HWWB servers the Lord of Slowest Terror, Nemesis may be some sort of projection of his body into our world.
I think you might be on to something, but I doubt that Nemesis acts independently.. I think it requires a vector to spread it, as in the case of Lea and the Knife, the Knife being the vector. Once infected, the host suffers a mental breakdown for lack of a better name for it, which plays into the hands of the Enemy. Some of us have gotten into the habit of blaming any evil or odd behavior on Nemesis, but I think it is more complicated than that. I think there are players on the same team that comprise the "Enemy," Outsiders, Denarians, the Red and Black Courts, Nemesis is more or less a tool of the Enemy.. The White Court isn't so easy to figure out, some aspects of it seem to play for the team, it is possible that the Hunger Demon itself is part of the Enemy, but with varying degrees of success.. I think it depends on the family, Thomas must feed, but perhaps because of his mother and brother doesn't act like someone Nemesis infected. Lara on the other hand is harder to figure out, she works strictly for self interest and plays both sides I think.
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I think you might be on to something, but I doubt that Nemesis acts independently.. I think it requires a vector to spread it, as in the case of Lea and the Knife, the Knife being the vector.
Thanks, many of us believed per WOJ's about the Gatekeeper, Demonreach's grudge against Gatekeeper, that Gatekeeper may have erred in letting something through. Many of us believed it was related in some way to Nemesis. I just related it to the power used against Demonreach. It was used that way across time and space so there are multiple times that it could have leaked into our reality to begin the unravelling of Demonreach.
Nemesis may be some entity or some sentient spell of undoing and it was related again to powers that were thrown against Demonreach. It means that Gatebreaker (HWWBefore) was trying to assist in letting in some way Nemesis a greater ability to affect this world. As to the unravelling I talked about before, I'm wondering about Mother Winter's unravelling she created in Summer Knight and a comparison of it compared to a possible Nemesis sentient spell of undoing. Though I think the Nemesis spell may be something like spells mission is to undo this universe.
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I disagree. While Nic is inherently untrustworthy, he did not seem to be thrilled about the idea of one of the Denarians working with Outsiders. Plus what Jim said about Lucifer not wanting the universe destroyed (though Nic is not necessarily on board with that idea) makes me think that generally the Denarians would not be thrilled with the Outsider agenda.
There are enemies, of which Outsiders, the Denarians, Vampire Courts, are included, but lumping them together as The Enemy is a bit of a reach to me.
Though with the Denarian traitor, Papa Raith having some sort of contact with Outsiders, there's always the possibility for individuals to be on Team Outside.
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Who are you talking to Peregrine.
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Mira
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My opinion is Nemesis IS the corruption. It sounds much like Hastur from Lovecraft
"Hastur (The Unspeakable One, Him Who Is Not to be Named, Assatur, Xastur, H'aaztre, or Kaiwan) is an entity of the Cthulhu Mythos. "
Hastur's main weapon is to instill insanity in it's victims minds. The people often create a symbol that they show to other people, and supposedly anyone who sees the symbol is capable of being influenced by Hastur.
I always pegged Hastur for an Odin type, being a Wind deity, having power instilled in a rune, ect.
I do agree that it's not all powerful. It may be similar to being connected to a Coin. Most people seem to succumb, but if the will is there they can refuse it.
Exactly why it's so unnoticed amongst Humans, We've always been free to ignore the devil on our shoulder. And why it's comes to a head in Warlocks, they are making choices and becoming more of what they are in doing so. Harder to push against something that starts to be part of whom you are on an active creation level.... Think about it this way(cause I do lol) the Devil is free to whisper to us all he wants(or he used to be before being trapped) and as the Adversary, something given an active position in Bibliography, Nemesis's role is to do the same now?
*this ties heavily into the idea of the personal vs united shadow, the references to the devil within us, not our dark side, but the united aspect that that represents the interchangeable darkness. If Nemesis is humanities shadow until we trade into one specifically, Like Harry did with Lasciel. Lasciel broke the rules in CH because she was not supposed to act outside the coin, even though she already had Harry mirroring her from before. The proper person whose supposed to be whispering at us is Nemesis. The Denarian's procreate darkness and apocalyptic aura's thereby distilling it from building up while simultaneously eating up the soul of the host and creating a mirror, ergo stopping N and her cohorts from doing either, and remanifesting through the Denarians, or anyone else since the denarians are already holding the inside reality mirror for those aspects that they are relative to. The Denarians are part of our immune system.
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I always pegged Hastur for an Odin type, being a Wind deity, having power instilled in a rune, ect.
The entire series has been building around Outsiders being the enemy, and now you got Mother Winter, Odin, and Rashid as Outsider gods... Anyone else you peg as an Outsider?
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The entire series has been building around Outsiders being the enemy, and now you got Mother Winter, Odin, and Rashid as Outsider gods... Anyone else you peg as an Outsider?
Look again at Mab and what her Fortess actually is, It's a giant's home, a Jotun? MW is certainly an ice giantess... The whole story is predicated on the idea Outsiders finding a place inside. The Jotun Odin fought in his era became the source of power for the winter court, ergo denying them the ability to mirror those things in the darkness. That's the whole point of the fairy courts balance.
Hell the whole point of the DF is giving them masks in reality that are copacetic with existence.
Look at the stars on Lady Nights neck in CH, vs the 5 points of creation, the five times of DR, each syncing to a different source of creation or the five current in the Fae pantheon, Mab, Titania, EK, Kringle, and.... Nemesis.(more akin to Ursula here, the Queen version)
and go back, way back to the beginning, to when any of these things die. They all enter the same individual shadows, the same... imprint on the universe. Those five imprints are those 3 who walk before, he who walks behind and Nemesis.(the Mother version) It's why they are described similar to necromantic creatures being 'deep', they are echo's on creation that don't really wanna let it go.
They get to be so, because they tend to die per their descriptive name, others probably don't have the same description even if they come from the same archetype. Those who walk before the end, and he who walks after, Death. (hhwbh as death has many connections...) and the Judge who decides the Fate. The Horsemen once they have a viable host to be their beast of burden.... anytime those specific consciousness(or whatever, collective spiritual identity) manifest it's in tune with that description causing, by their own nature, The End. (hence why Nic specifically was calling apocalyptic powers of Disease, a previous horsemen he does not want an identity/aspects to come back to, so he spreads it out and then takes the smut with Anduriel.
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Though with the Denarian traitor, Papa Raith having some sort of contact with Outsiders, there's always the possibility for individuals to be on Team Outside.
I always thought Papa Raith was possessed by an Outsider, and that is why he cannot be touched by magic seemingly except for the death curse placed on him by Maggie.. However come to think of it, she may not have placed it on him but on his Hunger demon. He is still possessed by the Outsider which makes appear young etc, but his Hunger cannot get any nourishment no matter how much he feeds, which makes him weak.
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I always thought Papa Raith was possessed by an Outsider, and that is why he cannot be touched by magic seemingly except for the death curse placed on him by Maggie.. However come to think of it, she may not have placed it on him but on his Hunger demon. He is still possessed by the Outsider which makes appear young etc, but his Hunger cannot get any nourishment no matter how much he feeds, which makes him weak.
Jim may have thrown out some misinformation but didn't he say recently that the 3 witches got him the magical protection? (probably by summoning HHWB)
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Jim may have thrown out some misinformation but didn't he say recently that the 3 witches got him the magical protection? (probably by summoning HHWB)
I never heard that, but I am not up on all WOJs.. It is my own theory based on what Harry felt when he tried to kill him in Blood Rite. Do you have the WOJ?
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I never heard that, but I am not up on all WOJs.. It is my own theory based on what Harry felt when he tried to kill him in Blood Rite. Do you have the WOJ?
I didn't even hear the comment. Someone else mentioned it in one of the 3 video's i linked recently. Maybe someone else who heard it can show you. I personally feel pretty let down if that is in fact how he got magical protection.
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I never heard that, but I am not up on all WOJs.. It is my own theory based on what Harry felt when he tried to kill him in Blood Rite. Do you have the WOJ?
He was protected long before blood rites. Which is why a wizard of Margaret's calibre went for a crippling blow with her death curse instead of a death blow.
The possessed by an outsider bit has merit though.
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The White Court isn't so easy to figure out, some aspects of it seem to play for the team, it is possible that the Hunger Demon itself is part of the Enemy, but with varying degrees of success.. I think it depends on the family, Thomas must feed, but perhaps because of his mother and brother doesn't act like someone Nemesis infected. Lara on the other hand is harder to figure out, she works strictly for self interest and plays both sides I think.
If anyone's playing for the other side, it (was) Lord Raith. Lara is self-interested, not trying to give reality away to "empty night".
And I think placing the (mainstream) Denarians on team Outsider is a mistake. Nicodemus wouldn't have been that freaked out over Harry mentioning that someone threw Hellfire at Arctis Tor if he was broadly aligned with that action anyway.
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There are basically 2 enemies to worry about. Those that want power from within reality, and those that want power that comes from Outside reality. The first is dangerous, the second is bat shit crazy dangerous.
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He was protected long before blood rites. Which is why a wizard of Margaret's calibre went for a crippling blow with her death curse instead of a death blow.
The possessed by an outsider bit has merit though.
Yes, he was protected, but a wizard like Margaret who lived with him and had a child by him would figure out the secret of his power. Most likely she learned a great deal more, that is why I think when she met Malcolm, she found the strength to leave Raith, not only because she fell in love but because she felt that he had the qualities to father a star child to counter the Outsiders. She also left Thomas behind I think because if she took him with Raith would have gone after her sooner.
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He was protected long before blood rites. Which is why a wizard of Margaret's calibre went for a crippling blow with her death curse instead of a death blow.
The possessed by an outsider bit has merit though.
Maybe not.... Jim did say that if he had been killed he would have been replaced and the White Court would have continued it's growth but she sandbagged them for 30 years. It may have been her intention to cripple not just him but the entire White Court. My guess is her way of doing it was through her son Thomas who shares his father's blood, and inherited his demon from him. She used that link to get to Raith's demon and put a muzzle on it.
It may have been after his demon was crippled, and his paranoia grew (when they cannot feed this happens) that he reached out and got the magical protection.
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Maybe not.... Jim did say that if he had been killed he would have been replaced and the White Court would have continued it's growth but she sandbagged them for 30 years. It may have been her intention to cripple not just him but the entire White Court. My guess is her way of doing it was through her son Thomas who shares his father's blood, and inherited his demon from him. She used that link to get to Raith's demon and put a muzzle on it.
It may have been after his demon was crippled, and his paranoia grew (when they cannot feed this happens) that he reached out and
got the magical protection.
I agree that her hope was that Thomas could help to check mate Papa Raith, but I don't think he inherited the same Hunger Demon. Simply because Thomas can feed and get nourishment from feeding where as his father cannot.
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I agree that her hope was that Thomas could help to check mate Papa Raith, but I don't think he inherited the same Hunger Demon. Simply because Thomas can feed and get nourishment from feeding where as his father cannot.
Thomas's demon came from somewhere. I figured his father's demon provided some sort of material just like any parent would provide to create a life. Maggie could have used that to go after Raith. Either that or Thomas's blood or maybe she actually had stolen some sort of physical material from Raith herself.
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Thomas's demon came from somewhere. I figured his father's demon provided some sort of material just like any parent would provide to create a life. Maggie could have used that to go after Raith. Either that or Thomas's blood or maybe she actually had stolen some sort of physical material from Raith herself.
Or maybe more to the point, Thomas had already been born, so the demon inside of him wouldn't be affected. There is no evidence that the Hunger Demons themselves are linked..