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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: groinkick on May 29, 2018, 04:55:09 AM
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If Ivy were to die, who would take up her Mantle do you think? Now it's supposed to go from mother to daughter, but if there is no daughter does it fade away or does it seek out a suitable host much like Molly taking up the Winter Lady Mantle?
If so, who would you see taking it? Reason I ask is she could be murdered in Peace Talks... It would make sense considering the Old Ones would want her gone.
Murphy maybe? It would make her more relevant to the Dresden world.
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If Ivy were to die, who would take up her Mantle do you think? Now it's supposed to go from mother to daughter, but if there is no daughter does it fade away or does it seek out a suitable host much like Molly taking up the Winter Lady Mantle?
If so, who would you see taking it? Reason I ask is she could be murdered in Peace Talks... It would make sense considering the Old Ones would want her gone.
Murphy maybe? It would make her more relevant to the Dresden world.
Huge problem, one would think there would be a contingency for a thing but since they saddled a poor new born baby because she was the daughter of the last one, one has to wonder.
Murphy would be the worst choice... Might make her more relevant in the Dresden world, but it would not be good for her, she is too independent a thinker..
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Best guess is that it would jump to the nearest genetic relative (and a bloodline that old would have /had/ to spread out a bit). Highly doubt it would go to any of the named characters, unless it comes that one of them is actually a long-lost relative.
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I think it would fade away. Otherwise, there wouldn't be much point in murdering her from the Old Ones' point of view. They'd just have to worry about someone else, possibly unknown to them, carrying the Archive later.
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I think it would fade away. Otherwise, there wouldn't be much point in murdering her from the Old Ones' point of view. They'd just have to worry about someone else, possibly unknown to them, carrying the Archive later.
Huh? The Old Ones would logically want her gone, so she has to be more vulnerable to make it happen more easily? I dont follow your logic.
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Huh? The Old Ones would logically want her gone, so she has to be more vulnerable to make it happen more easily? I dont follow your logic.
If the Archive's existence acts as a deterrent to the Old Ones returning, and that existence can be terminated, they would attempt to terminate it. This is the case where the Archive ceases to exist when its bearer dies without a specified heir.
If the Archive's existence acts as a deterrent to the Old Ones returning, but that existence can only be periodically suspended, they would only target it during times critical to their operations. This is the case where the Archive finds a new, indeterminate bearer when its current bearer dies without heir.
I was thinking along the lines of effort put in vs results from their point of view. If they can get rid of the Archive permanently, then the Old Ones would be salivating for a chance at Ivy. If they can only temporarily put the Archive out of commission by killing the host, they wouldn't risk as many resources/personnel unless the timing of the Archive's absence was especially opportune.
Does that make sense? It does in my head, anyway, but considering this post deals with the concept of Mantles yet again, I'm already mentally fatigued. Could be mixing things up.
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If the Archive's existence acts as a deterrent to the Old Ones returning, and that existence can be terminated, they would attempt to terminate it. This is the case where the Archive ceases to exist when its bearer dies without a specified heir.
If the Archive's existence acts as a deterrent to the Old Ones returning, but that existence can only be periodically suspended, they would only target it during times critical to their operations. This is the case where the Archive finds a new, indeterminate bearer when its current bearer dies without heir.
I was thinking along the lines of effort put in vs results from their point of view. If they can get rid of the Archive permanently, then the Old Ones would be salivating for a chance at Ivy. If they can only temporarily put the Archive out of commission by killing the host, they wouldn't risk as many resources/personnel unless the timing of the Archive's absence was especially opportune.
Does that make sense? It does in my head, anyway, but considering this post deals with the concept of Mantles yet again, I'm already mentally fatigued. Could be mixing things up.
Oh, you mean "Why would them wanting the Archive to be destructible make it destructible?" Sorry, got mixed up. That's a guess based on it adding narrative stakes to the situation.
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Oh, you mean "Why would them wanting the Archive to be destructible make it destructible?" Sorry, got mixed up. That's a guess based on it adding narrative stakes to the situation.
Ah, kk. Ya that was my confusion, I thought Id missed some new, more direct link between the Archive (or rather it's actual origin) and the Outsiders.
Fwiw, It doesnt look like the Archive is specifically geared toward an anti-Outsider goal (especially given that it primarily targets beings from the NN), and there has been some debate as to whether Outsiders are themselves subject to Oblivion at all (being in theory qualitatively different from the NN creatures that it targets).
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some of the reason I think Murphy could be a good replacement are:
More side stories about the Oblivion war with a well established and familiar character.
Romantic relationship with Kincaid (I personally think the ship has sailed on Harry/Murphy).
She becomes more relevant to the books in general.
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some of the reason I think Murphy could be a good replacement are:
More side stories about the Oblivion war with a well established and familiar character.
Romantic relationship with Kincaid (I personally think the ship has sailed on Harry/Murphy).
She becomes more relevant to the books in general.
Um, your reasons are the reasons she shouldn't be.. I need to reread the bit where Luccio warns Harry about humanizing Ivy too much.. Murphy is all too human and tend to see things her own way, that got her into trouble trying to wield and judge with a Holy Sword, which clearly she shouldn't have done... I can see her not agreeing with or feeling morally able to carry out some of the things the Archive must do, that would spell trouble for her..
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Um, your reasons are the reasons she shouldn't be.. I need to reread the bit where Luccio warns Harry about humanizing Ivy too much.. Murphy is all too human and tend to see things her own way, that got her into trouble trying to wield and judge with a Holy Sword, which clearly she shouldn't have done... I can see her not agreeing with or feeling morally able to carry out some of the things the Archive must do, that would spell trouble for her..
I agree. And the forced neutrality? Not a chance. Murphy is only good as a mortal, capable cop.
I think if Ivy dies, it's poof, gone. Unless someone knows the workings of the creation of the Archive and "Salvages" the database from her brain with some good old fashioned necromancy, then picks some poor fool to put the archive in.
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I agree. And the forced neutrality? Not a chance. Murphy is only good as a mortal, capable cop.
Murphy may not have a Choice if the Mantle has some control over the person.
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Murphy may not have a Choice if the Mantle has some control over the person.
I can't imagine that a Mantle can do that without some sort of Choice being made. Even with Molly, while Jim said it's inevitable, it's not immediate. So it may be one of those things where you're constantly being asked "How bout now? How bout now? What about now?" until you say yes.
Likewise, while the Archive Mantle may be able to say "You're my home now" I don't think it'd be able to immediately start dictating her actions. Keep in mind of course that Ivy's mom was able to suicide despite being the Archive.
The way I see an unwilling host(ess) playing out is that she gets saddled with the knowledge and Mantle, but still retains enough of her Free Will at first. But the Mantle can keep feeding her information about what's happening in the world, the importance of the job, things like that, to wear down her resistance until she Chooses to accept it.
Assuming of course that the Archive is in the flesh and brains of the person, and not some sort of nebulous construct that would exist even were Ivy to die, and possibly be recovered from the aether by someone else who can whip together the right magic.
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I can't imagine that a Mantle can do that without some sort of Choice being made. Even with Molly, while Jim said it's inevitable, it's not immediate. So it may be one of those things where you're constantly being asked "How bout now? How bout now? What about now?" until you say yes.
Likewise, while the Archive Mantle may be able to say "You're my home now" I don't think it'd be able to immediately start dictating her actions. Keep in mind of course that Ivy's mom was able to suicide despite being the Archive.
The way I see an unwilling host(ess) playing out is that she gets saddled with the knowledge and Mantle, but still retains enough of her Free Will at first. But the Mantle can keep feeding her information about what's happening in the world, the importance of the job, things like that, to wear down her resistance until she Chooses to accept it.
Assuming of course that the Archive is in the flesh and brains of the person, and not some sort of nebulous construct that would exist even were Ivy to die, and possibly be recovered from the aether by someone else who can whip together the right magic.
A little baby had no Choice when the Mantle went to her. Even so whenever duty calls, Murphy answers. Police officer running into battle, KoTC fighting at Chicken Pizza, Harry asking her to take on Nicodemus... My guess is that when being given the Choice to face the Old Gods in a secret war where humanity is in the balance she'd choose to say yes once she was convinced there was a reason the Mantle was seeking her. Or if Ivy knew her death was coming and that Murphy was the one she thought best to replace her.
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A little baby had no Choice when the Mantle went to her. Even so whenever duty calls, Murphy answers. Police officer running into battle, KoTC fighting at Chicken Pizza, Harry asking her to take on Nicodemus... My guess is that when being given the Choice to face the Old Gods in a secret war where humanity is in the balance she'd choose to say yes once she was convinced there was a reason the Mantle was seeking her. Or if Ivy knew her death was coming and that Murphy was the one she thought best to replace her.
But that doesn't keep her from having her own ideas and thinking what is right or wrong.. At C.I. she allowed herself to become a sock puppet of an archangel and she didn't like it, but it worked out for one night, not long term... She rejected the Sword because she didn't believe in the rules, chose to fight with it in spite of her belief that the Nickleheads didn't deserve a chance at redemption.. Judged Nic, and got a Sword broken... I cannot see her mentally standing up to the demands of the Archive....
Likewise, while the Archive Mantle may be able to say "You're my home now" I don't think it'd be able to immediately start dictating her actions. Keep in mind of course that Ivy's mom was able to suicide despite being the Archive.
Oh I think it does, and it takes away the freedom of the host... If I remember right Ivy's mom received the Archive as a teenager and rebelled because she never had enough freedom before hand to adjust to it... I cannot see Murphy becoming the sock puppet of the Archive anymore than she stood for very long being the sock puppet of an Archangel..
I don't think choice to accept enters into it very much either in case of the Archive... The point was Ivy's mom didn't have a choice to accept, and being a small baby Ivy certainly never had a choice..
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Oh, and I forgot.
If Ivy dies...
WE RIOT!
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Regarding the Archive as a Mantle and it's ability to violate the Free Will of the host: Parents can apparently make Decisions for their children without violating Free Will. It is presumably why the Fae are able to take a Baby as payment, or the old "Deal with the Devil for your First-born" trope.
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Regarding the Archive as a Mantle and it's ability to violate the Free Will of the host: Parents can apparently make Decisions for their children without violating Free Will. It is presumably why the Fae are able to take a Baby as payment, or the old "Deal with the Devil for your First-born" trope.
In the case of the Archive there seems to be more to it than that.. It seems to be handed down though the family from one eligible female member to another if I remember correctly.
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Regarding the Archive as a Mantle and it's ability to violate the Free Will of the host: Parents can apparently make Decisions for their children without violating Free Will. It is presumably why the Fae are able to take a Baby as payment, or the old "Deal with the Devil for your First-born" trope.
I don't know that is necessarily a Free Will issue, and more a Bargaining thing. The Fae can have you eaten by dogs after all, that's hardly a Free Will thing. Stealing a kid is similarly not a Free Will thing.
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In the case of the Archive there seems to be more to it than that.. It seems to be handed down though the family from one eligible female member to another if I remember correctly.
Indeed, that was my point: the family Bargain is still Binding, even if the current individual did not personally and willfully Agree to it. The fact that the Parents and/or Ancestors agreed to it is enough for the Obligation to be inherited.
I don't know that is necessarily a Free Will issue, and more a Bargaining thing. The Fae can have you eaten by dogs after all, that's hardly a Free Will thing. Stealing a kid is similarly not a Free Will thing.
I was seeing it as both, about who has the Right to make a bargain on your behalf. Now I dont know if average fae can have you eaten by dogs (Lea was only ever offering to turn him into one), but Queens can't and Bob was advising that Harry buy off Mab with a baby. Granted he was advising Harry /steal/ a baby, not make his own, so in retrospect it may not apply.
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Indeed, that was my point: the family Bargain is still Binding, even if the current individual did not personally and willfully Agree to it. The fact that the Parents and/or Ancestors agreed to it is enough for the Obligation to be inherited.
I was seeing it as both, about who has the Right to make a bargain on your behalf. Now I dont know if average fae can have you eaten by dogs (Lea was only ever offering to turn him into one), but Queens can't and Bob was advising that Harry buy off Mab with a baby. Granted he was advising Harry /steal/ a baby, not make his own, so in retrospect it may not apply.
Queens absolutely can have you eaten by dogs. That's one of the things Bob mentions that they can do (along with tricking you into drowning) as opposed to killing you directly.
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Queens absolutely can have you eaten by dogs. That's one of the things Bob mentions that they can do (along with tricking you into drowning) as opposed to killing you directly.
Oooh, that. They can turn you into a stag and drop you near a wolf pack or some such, but they cant just sick their own hounds on you and kill you that way. In the latter case the Hounds become their own tools (like the Guard is for Harry killing Aurora) and the queen cannot claim innocence.
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Indeed, that was my point: the family Bargain is still Binding, even if the current individual did not personally and willfully Agree to it. The fact that the Parents and/or Ancestors agreed to it is enough for the Obligation to be inherited.
One has to wonder if it works like the Loop-garou curse on the MacFinn family? Harley MacFinn never had a choice whether he wanted to become one or not, he was just the next poor smuck in the family line to become it.
Not saying it is the same, but then again the Archive is a bit of a curse, that is why Ivy's mom killed herself she wasn't prepared for and couldn't deal with the burden and restrictions.. I hope one day that Jim goes into the history of the Archive, who was the first host? Did the original agree for her family for all eternity to carry the burden? Or was it some kind of punishment or curse for some violation? Or was it a random thing? By that I mean knowing that the Archive had to be carefully controlled, Merlin, not to be confused with the Merlin put the names of several suitable families in his hat and pulled out a name?
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If the Archive were to be passed to anyone we've met, my money would be on Lydia from Grave Peril; I've always seen a connection between Cassandra's Tears and the Pythias, which are connected to the Archive. I could see Lydia (and anyone with Cassandra's Tears) being the non-Archive scions of the original.
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If the Archive were to be passed to anyone we've met, my money would be on Lydia from Grave Peril; I've always seen a connection between Cassandra's Tears and the Pythias, which are connected to the Archive. I could see Lydia (and anyone with Cassandra's Tears) being the non-Archive scions of the original.
That would be an interesting way to revive an act 1 guest-character. I like it
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The point is the Senior Council wants to keep a degree if control.. That kind of knowledge is power.. That is why they want Bob destroyed, who ever holds his skull is in control and he can be used for evil as we saw with Kemmler or good as we've seen with Harry and now Butters.
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Pretty sure the Archive predates the crap out of The Council and/or the original Merlin. Time Travel notwithstanding I dont see how he could have been involved, or why he'd need to be.
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Bob advising harry to buy off Mab with a baby and Molly's responsibilities as the winter queen has me thinking. is it common in fae to offer up ones children to serve protecting reality when they are in trouble with the winter court.
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Bob advising harry to buy off Mab with a baby and Molly's responsibilities as the winter queen has me thinking. is it common in fae to offer up ones children to serve protecting reality when they are in trouble with the winter court.
Cold case suggests so. They pay a tithe in children, even if they're not happy with the court.
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I do wonder if we're confusing things by bringing in Choice vis-a-vis the Archive.
So far as I imagine it, Choice for Mortal only specifically pertains to things to do with good/evil and the Soul. The Archive gives power, but it may not have any effect on the Soul of the bearer (hence why Ivy could be turned by the Denarians, but Chose not to for long enough to get rescued).
So the Archive, like a loaded gun, can be handed to a human without them really knowing or caring since the Mortal still gets to Choose how to live - but if you hand a loaded gun to someone in a combat zone, you are promoting them to target anyway so the human will probably cling to the weapon to scare off any would-be attackers.
(This being specifically unlike Molly, since Ladyhood turns one towards the Fae, which dissolves/disperses/removes/? the Soul of the human involved over time).
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So the Archive, like a loaded gun, can be handed to a human without them really knowing or caring since the Mortal still gets to Choose how to live - but if you hand a loaded gun to someone in a combat zone, you are promoting them to target anyway so the human will probably cling to the weapon to scare off any would-be attackers.
That is why the Senior Council is so careful about it and monitoring Ivy so carefully. I think the bigger question might be if all the humanizing influences Harry has had on her will make the Council reconsider her suitability as a host for the Archive? If the answer is negative, what happens then? Is it something that Ivy can just give up? Will Eb have to execute her? Which brings us back to the original question, what then?
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That is why the Senior Council is so careful about it and monitoring Ivy so carefully.
Given how much they were underestimating her power, I dont actually think they are keeping strong tabs on her. And between her own powers and likely political the limitations imposed by the Accords, Im not sure how much they'd be able to accomplish on her.
I think the bigger question might be if all the humanizing influences Harry has had on her will make the Council reconsider her suitability as a host for the Archive? If the answer is negative, what happens then? Is it something that Ivy can just give up? Will Eb have to execute her? Which brings us back to the original question, what then?
I think we can be confident that the host cannot voluntarily give it up short of the suicide Ivy's mother used. I have doubts as to whether even the Blackstaff could take her in a straight fight, and Im pretty confident the Council has no actual authority over either Ivy Or the Archive. The best they could do is kill her and hope the next Archive that arrises is more amenable to them, which would pretty much make them a full-on Evil Organization of Evil. That's all assuming the Senior Council is ignorant of the Oblivion War, since if they were they'd not want to make it leaderless for span of years or decades that it would take for the new archive to grow into the role.
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Given how much they were underestimating her power, I dont actually think they are keeping strong tabs on her. And between her own powers and likely political the limitations imposed by the Accords, Im not sure how much they'd be able to accomplish on her.
On the contrary, reread Luccio's conversation with Harry about Ivy and the Archive, she doesn't underestimate the power for a second... Harry on the other hand does, mainly because he is coming down on the purely human side of the equation, Ivy is a very human little girl... The dangers of that are clearly set out by Luccio, and she throws in why Bob is so dangerous as well.. Though she did not know at that point in time that Harry had Bob.
I think we can be confident that the host cannot voluntarily give it up short of the suicide Ivy's mother used. I have doubts as to whether even the Blackstaff could take her in a straight fight, and Im pretty confident the Council has no actual authority over either Ivy Or the Archive. The best they could do is kill her and hope the next Archive that arrises is more amenable to them, which would pretty much make them a full-on Evil Organization of Evil. That's all assuming the Senior Council is ignorant of the Oblivion War, since if they were they'd not want to make it leaderless for span of years or decades that it would take for the new archive to grow into the role.
I think it most likely way more complicated than you think. According to Luccio the Archive is supposed to be a totally neutral tool, thus it took part as judge in Harry's duel with the Red Court.. Also if merely killing the host solved the problem of who gets control one would think that Nic would have done it when he had the chance, instead he chose to try and damage Ivy's mind until she willingly came over to his side. Granted Nic had other things on his agenda as well at the time like destroying holy swords and taking out holy knights.. Remains to be seen as to whether or not the Archive has some kind of "fail safe," should it go rouge or otherwise go out of control... Further more if one exists no one knows who holds that button...
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On the contrary, reread Luccio's conversation with Harry about Ivy and the Archive, she doesn't underestimate the power for a second... Harry on the other hand does, mainly because he is coming down on the purely human side of the equation, Ivy is a very human little girl... The dangers of that are clearly set out by Luccio, and she throws in why Bob is so dangerous as well.. Though she did not know at that point in time that Harry had Bob.
I dont really know what you are referring to. The conversation Im looking at has Luccio claiming that the council rated her on par with a Fae Lady and Harry said he thought they were underestimating her (granted by his reactions in CD he was likely himself underestimating the Ladies, but whatever).
I think you are talking about the long-term dangers of the Archive as set out by the Council's fears. Im talking about her actual /Power/. Powerful and Dangerous are very different things, especially in the DV.
I think it most likely way more complicated than you think. According to Luccio the Archive is supposed to be a totally neutral tool, thus it took part as judge in Harry's duel with the Red Court.. Also if merely killing the host solved the problem of who gets control one would think that Nic would have done it when he had the chance, instead he chose to try and damage Ivy's mind until she willingly came over to his side. Granted Nic had other things on his agenda as well at the time like destroying holy swords and taking out holy knights.. Remains to be seen as to whether or not the Archive has some kind of "fail safe," should it go rouge or otherwise go out of control... Further more if one exists no one knows who holds that button...
I still dont get your point. I never said that killing the host would somehow claim you the Archive for yourself, just that a) I disagree with your assessment that the Council has any affiliation or authority over the Archive beyond them both being members of the Accords, and b) the I dont think the Council would actually have the firepower to Take her Down if they were to actually try an all-out offensive to impose their will upon her.
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I think you are talking about the long-term dangers of the Archive as set out by the Council's fears. Im talking about her actual /Power/. Powerful and Dangerous are very different things, especially in the DV.
I disagree
page 408 Small Favor
"The Archive was created as a neutral force. A repository of knowledge. But what if Ivy's unique circumstance allows her to ignore those limitations? Imagine the results of the anger and bitterness and desire for revenge of all those lifetimes, combined with the power of the Archive and the restraint of a twelve year old?"
"I'd rather not," I said quietly.
"Nor would I," Luccio said. "That would be a true nightmare. All that knowledge, without conscience to direct it.."
No she doesn't spell out the Archive's powers on a one to ten scale if that is what you are looking for? However she makes it pretty clear that the Council is well aware of how powerful the Archive is and how dangerous, plus the dangers of havin
I still dont get your point. I never said that killing the host would somehow claim you the Archive for yourself, just that a) I disagree with your assessment that the Council has any affiliation or authority over the Archive beyond them both being members of the Accords, and b) the I dont think the Council would actually have the firepower to Take her Down if they were to actually try an all-out offensive to impose their will upon her.
The point is, if Luccio's fears for an out of control Archive comes to pass, someone will have to take it down or the results could be catastrophic for everyone... Ergo, to whom would that take fall? Who has the kind of power needed to do it? Part of the Accords or not, if the Archive became a threat, I am willing to be that Mab would order it's take down, she hates disorder... Plus the Archive is vulnerable, after all Ivy was kidnapped and held prisoner by Nic..
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The Archive is less vulnerable every day. She's what? 19 or something now? Now I'm not saying it isn't doable, because a human sniper is still underestimated by the supernatural world. The quote from Small Favor reminded me that Ivy is in charge of the Archive. Maybe the Archive will always act to protect itself, but that is the extent of what it does. And I don't think Ivy can get rid of it, and if she was killed, the Archive will have to get extracted and the cycle restarted by someone who knows exactly how to do it. Who the "Someone" Is, I have no idea, but it must be the descendents of those who thought to guard all human knowledge against catastrophe... Nothing to do with Oblivion War, I think.
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The Archive is less vulnerable every day. She's what? 19 or something now? Now I'm not saying it isn't doable, because a human sniper is still underestimated by the supernatural world. The quote from Small Favor reminded me that Ivy is in charge of the Archive. Maybe the Archive will always act to protect itself, but that is the extent of what it does. And I don't think Ivy can get rid of it, and if she was killed, the Archive will have to get extracted and the cycle restarted by someone who knows exactly how to do it. Who the "Someone" Is, I have no idea, but it must be the descendents of those who thought to guard all human knowledge against catastrophe... Nothing to do with Oblivion War, I think.
I agree for the most part, but we don't know at this point how it is transferred. I would like to know the dynamic that went on between Ivy's mom and the Archive before her suicide. Apparently she felt death was the only way to free herself, which she accomplished, so she had free will... If she was able to kill herself at will, perhaps if she went rouge she'd also be capable of using the Archive as Luccio described...
Here is another chilling thought, what if Ivy's mom didn't suicide but was driven to kill herself by the Archive? The Archive decides that it's host isn't suitable so it kills it...
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I disagree
Well:
Jim: @FitzMelech Rashid is, by far, the most dangerous of the Senior Council. Which is not the same thing as most powerful. Smiley
See. Different.
[/quote]
page 408 Small Favor
No she doesn't spell out the Archive's powers on a one to ten scale if that is what you are looking for? However she makes it pretty clear that the Council is well aware of how powerful the Archive is and how dangerous, plus the dangers of havin
The point is, if Luccio's fears for an out of control Archive comes to pass, someone will have to take it down or the results could be catastrophic for everyone... Ergo, to whom would that take fall? Who has the kind of power needed to do it? Part of the Accords or not, if the Archive became a threat, I am willing to be that Mab would order it's take down, she hates disorder... Plus the Archive is vulnerable, after all Ivy was kidnapped and held prisoner by Nic..
[/quote]Ok. This is not the topic I was discussing at all, but sure I agree that it would have been very bad and somebody would have to step up and fix it. Top guesses on my list would be the Blackstaff, a KotC, or Harry himself as the general Avatar of Chaos.
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Here is another chilling thought, what if Ivy's mom didn't suicide but was driven to kill herself by the Archive? The Archive decides that it's host isn't suitable so it kills it...
Interesting... I assume you also mean removing that part from it's memory? That'd be difficult to manage, as the Archive would KNOW the failsafe that kills an unsuitable host, and if the Archive knows, Ivy knows.
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What's chilling would be if The Archive has that much independent agency at all. I mean, it's one thing to bear a mantle of power, it's a wildly different thing to be the host of an independent entity that might abandon and/or kill you on a whim. That is precisely why the Winter Knight mantle is preferred over a Coin.
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What's chilling would be if The Archive has that much independent agency at all. I mean, it's one thing to bear a mantle of power, it's a wildly different thing to be the host of an independent entity that might abandon and/or kill you on a whim. That is precisely why the Winter Knight mantle is preferred over a Coin.
It could very well have that as a kind of fail safe... How else would everyone else be protected from the kind of host that Luccio described? What are the protections against mental illness? Some severe and violent forms do not show up until the early to mid-twenties... So what if Ivy becomes psychotic or develops signs of schizophrenia? Can the Archive act independently if that happens?
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It could very well have that as a kind of fail safe... How else would everyone else be protected from the kind of host that Luccio described? What are the protections against mental illness? Some severe and violent forms do not show up until the early to mid-twenties... So what if Ivy becomes psychotic or develops signs of schizophrenia? Can the Archive act independently if that happens?
It could have also been Nemesis infection, or the work of a White Court Vamp (Who I suspect also helped get rid of Murphy's father). Just as Maggie's curse sandbagged the White Court, so was the Archive. There had to have been a period of time that she wasn't able to perform her duties, and even when she could probably not as effectively as an adult. Ivy's grandmother was also killed.
So Grandmother killed, mother commits suicide, Ivy new Archive as an infant. Rather suspicious, almost as if someone is trying to eliminate the Archive.
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It could have also been Nemesis infection, or the work of a White Court Vamp (Who I suspect also helped get rid of Murphy's father). Just as Maggie's curse sandbagged the White Court, so was the Archive. There had to have been a period of time that she wasn't able to perform her duties, and even when she could probably not as effectively as an adult. Ivy's grandmother was also killed.
So Grandmother killed, mother commits suicide, Ivy new Archive as an infant. Rather suspicious, almost as if someone is trying to eliminate the Archive.
It does appear that way, or alternatively get a cooperative host... In a way you could say this was one of Nic's goals when he kidnapped Ivy, get her to accept a coin and play on his team... It could have worked this way, Ivy left as sort of a zombie shell, and the Fallen manipulating the Archive..