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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: groinkick on April 21, 2018, 04:32:59 AM
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I was thinking that Mac might be the one "main" who dies. We will finally learn who he is, and what he's about. Harry will inherit his bar, and it's title as neutral territory... It will be another power up for Dresden that isn't about personal power, but more about status.
I don't know if he's going to be the death that sets off everything, just that he may be one of the casualties.
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Wasn't there a WOJ about Mac that the audience wouldn't find out who / what he really is until around the BAT?
Now, granted, we aren't trusting WOJ's 100% anymore, but that seems like an odd point to throw misinformation about.
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Wasn't there a WOJ about Mac that the audience wouldn't find out who / what he really is until around the BAT?
Now, granted, we aren't trusting WOJ's 100% anymore, but that seems like an odd point to throw misinformation about.
I wouldn't be surprised if Mac was a big part of the BAT.
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I wouldn't be surprised if Mac was a big part of the BAT.
Mac reconsidering being "out" when shit actually hits the fan:
https://i.imgur.com/nD2LWjO.gif
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Im confident that McCoy will die, because I fully expect Harry will need the Blackstaff before it is over. I dont know that it will happen in Peace Talks, but it would be a fitting time for it, and one hell of a pressure cooker.
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Do we know someone important to the main cast will die? Or just assuming.
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Im confident that McCoy will die, because I fully expect Harry will need the Blackstaff before it is over. I dont know that it will happen in Peace Talks, but it would be a fitting time for it, and one hell of a pressure cooker.
I agree with you, for reasons I've stated on more than one occasion.
Do we know someone important to the main cast will die? Or just assuming.
One of the first things Jim said about Peace Talks was it will have a high degree of supernatural violence. Which; if you think about it, is kind of an odd statement because all the Dresden Files books have some degree of supernatural nastiness in them. You can go through it book by book; human hearts exploding out of chests, werewolves eviscerating people, vampires seducing and killing teenagers, Summer Knight only had one human victim, though he was murdered too, a curse that can cause a plague, more, nastier vampires enthralling and killing people, necromancers killing people at will and either stealing their bodies and wearing them like a suit of clothes, or using them to be part of a zombie army, and I could continue but you get the point.
So I think we can safely assume that in Peace Talks there will be some deaths on the good guys side as well bad guys, and as we continue to get nearer to the end of the series the likelihood increases one or more those deaths won't just be anonymous wardens or Senior Council members we've barely met before. For example, if Ancient Mai or Martha Liberty were to die in the next book; the death of one or both characters might be used to set up some interesting complications within the Council, but they wouldn't have much emotional impact for the readers, because we know so little of either character.
Other than Susan's death, the only other deaths that have hit close to home for Harry have been Kim Delaney's because his decision to withhold information from her may have contributed to her getting killed, and Detective Carmichael because he knew and respected him. Harry also felt bad about Linda Randall getting killed in Storm Front because he recognized similar patterns in her life to his own. However, again other than Susan, none of these people had a deep emotional connection to Harry. Now we know Harry's mother was murdered and it's a strong possibility that his father was too, but Harry didn't go through the first hand experience of losing a family member to violence, these are just things he's learned long after the fact. Finally, even though Susan's death was very traumatic for Harry, it didn't; at least in the short run, change the trajectory of Harry's life in any significant way, partly because Susan had been out of his life for years before the events in Changes. Afterwards Harry was still going to get shot, become the Winter Knight and start doing jobs for Mab, even if Susan had lived. Long term, of course, Harry has a daughter now.
So we are speculating someone close to Harry is likely to die in Peace Talks, but it seems like informed speculation to me; not just a WAG. To get back to why Ebenezer makes a good candidate; his death has the potential to cause both immediate and long-term complications for Harry, and they would be dangerous ones to boot.
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I think we might lose the Merlin, and Harry will find out how much worse his life could be if Arthur Langtry isn't in the top spot.
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I am kinda hoping Lord Raith bites it.
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Dunno. Kinda like him like this. :P
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has any one thought about what would happen if Thomas dies. we all ready know he has a child and him having a child would hit home the tragedy of his death .
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has any one thought about what would happen if Thomas dies. we all ready know he has a child and him having a child would hit home the tragedy of his death .
Skeptical he will die (based on Jim's writing style, and past books). If he did die I'd think it would be in the BAT.
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I am kinda hoping Lord Raith bites it.
I think is also possible and perhaps even probable. I recall that Jim has said that it's known that Lara is running a puppet show, and that she is the de facto ruler of the White Court and House Raith, but everyone is playing along for now. Though I don't think Jim has said why Lara's potential rivals would do this. Maybe it has to do with their hatred of overt confrontation. However, this means that should LR die suddenly, the leadership of the White Court would be up for grabs. If there are other supernatural murder victims piling up, it could be the perfect cover to add one more to the pile.
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I think is also possible and perhaps even probable. I recall that Jim has said that it's known that Lara is running a puppet show, and that she is the de facto ruler of the White Court and House Raith, but everyone is playing along for now. Though I don't think Jim has said why Lara's potential rivals would do this. Maybe it has to do with their hatred of overt confrontation. However, this means that should LR die suddenly, the leadership of the White Court would be up for grabs. If there are other supernatural murder victims piling up, it could be the perfect cover to add one more to the pile.
It was also that, now that the King had already been reduced to a Puppet, they were hoping to be able to appropriate the strings. Lara has apparently been too good at the job to let it happen.
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has any one thought about what would happen if Thomas dies. we all ready know he has a child and him having a child would hit home the tragedy of his death .
It depends on what Jim thinks will hurt us most. If Thomas were to die, Harry would suffer. If Justine were to die, Thomas would be in utter anguish, and Harry would get contact suffering from losing a friend, and watching his brother go through hell. We don't really have all that close a connection to Justine as a character, so watching her suffer through Thomas's death wouldn't be all that awful for us; we'd mostly suffer from Harry's pain.
And point of order: Justine's pregnant, Thomas isn't a full dad just yet. Personally, I think the most suffering to be had will be watching Thomas and Justine try to hide their baby from the White Court for the rest of the series—maybe even going so far as to send the kid to live with Aunt Inari and Uncle Bobby.
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While I whole-heartedly agree that this is prime time for McCoy to die, Susan wasn't the only emotional death and for me was probably the 3rd or 4th so... I'd say Morgan made me 10x misty-eyed compared to Susan. But maybe I'm just weird.
My only contra to the McCoy dying argument is that I'm not sure Harry is entirely ready to step up into McCoy's shoes and giving the staff to him in particular has complications... I'm presuming if McCoy dies, the staff either goes to the new Blackstaff or else reverts to its owner... To keep it under control of the council but give it to Dresden, McCoy would have to circumvent the council in delivering it and somehow geas Dresden to only use it for Council purposes. Absent the geas, the staff would possibly be considered reverting to Winter which would cause an imbalance of power... If McCoy didn't deliver the staff to Dresden, then I imagine the Council itself would determine the recipient and there is no way Dresden is on the list of primary recipients... which could also lend itself to an interim holder from McCoy's death until the time Dresden takes it up.
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I seem to recall a "Tweet" from Jim maybe a year ago give or take that he was emotional after writing Murphy's funeral... It created a bit of stir here of course. The question is, was he really or just pulling our legs?
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Hopefully we will find out around November. That is my rare optimism talking.
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Some would say that it is Murphy's time to die.... Harry loves her, that alone is the kiss of death... Also since she left the police force and refused to become a Holy Knight, there isn't a real place for her that is meaningful, that is why she appears so hollow in the last couple of books.
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We now have Jim responding yes that there will be a cost for Murphy to standby Harry. And yes, smirk, he thinks he knows what it will be.
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I seem to recall a "Tweet" from Jim maybe a year ago give or take that he was emotional after writing Murphy's funeral... It created a bit of stir here of course. The question is, was he really or just pulling our legs?
It was a joke. If memory serves it was people constantly asking about the book, and how far he was or something so he responded "I'm writing Murphy's funeral!"
Some would say that it is Murphy's time to die.... Harry loves her, that alone is the kiss of death... Also since she left the police force and refused to become a Holy Knight, there isn't a real place for her that is meaningful, that is why she appears so hollow in the last couple of books.
I guess it's Michael's time to die as well. Not every character needs to die when they aren't ready to be on the front lines fighting. I think what it's showing is just as Harry has outgrown his enemies of the past, he is now getting to a point where his allies of the past just aren't up to fighting the fights he's going to be having... Marcone, Murphy, the Alpha's, Thomas.... They just aren't on par with Harry anymore, he's too big just as the enemies he's going to be facing are too big.
To paraphrase The Thinker "Those were children with play guns, their powers were nothing."
As for Murphy not really being meaningful for the stories, that's up to Jim. Louis Lane didn't have powers but to Superman she was his rock, his port in the storm. Murphy's meaningfulness might be less about her fighting ability and more about being Harry's port in the storm.
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As for Murphy not really being meaningful for the stories, that's up to Jim. Louis Lane didn't have powers but to Superman she was his rock, his port in the storm. Murphy's meaningfulness might be less about her fighting ability and more about being Harry's port in the storm.
But in the Superman stories once Superman grew up he and all those around him seemed to freeze in time... The never aged from Jimmy Olsen to the guy who ran the newspaper, so MS Lane as the perpetual perky inquisitive foil remained plausible.... More or less... Susan was good in that role until it got serious between them and then seemingly Jim had no
where to go with her, even when she became a half turned vamp, which could have kept her interesting.. While Murphy might remain meaningful as Harry's port in the storm, she isn't his only port anymore..
Jim may have meant it as a joke, but even joking about it says it is on his mind..
I guess it's Michael's time to die as well. Not every character needs to die when they aren't ready to be on the front lines fighting. I think what it's showing is just as Harry has outgrown his enemies of the past, he is now getting to a point where his allies of the past just aren't up to fighting the fights he's going to be having... Marcone, Murphy, the Alpha's, Thomas.... They just aren't on par with Harry anymore, he's too big just as the enemies he's going to be facing are too big.
True, most know perfectly well they are not on par with Harry, but Murphy doesn't... That is the point, she thinks she knows Harry and what is best for him, but she is in fact clueless about him, this is what made her a liability in Skin Game to the point of disaster, i.e. the breaking of a Holy Sword.. Someone earlier spoke of setting up what is to come in the next books... I think we are being prepared for her exit, whether it is a mere break up or something more lasting.. I also think if her role is diminished from being someone who physically fights at Harry's side to some "emotional port in the storm," not just fans in general but her fans will be disappointed..
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rue, most know perfectly well they are not on par with Harry, but Murphy doesn't... That is the point, she thinks she knows Harry and what is best for him, but she is in fact clueless about him, this is what made her a liability in Skin Game to the point of disaster, i.e. the breaking of a Holy Sword.. Someone earlier spoke of setting up what is to come in the next books... I think we are being prepared for her exit, whether it is a mere break up or something more lasting.. I also think if her role is diminished from being someone who physically fights at Harry's side to some "emotional port in the storm," not just fans in general but her fans will be disappointed..
I agree with Mira's sentiments. Murphy's role will change. And I think the best way would be to incorporate her end into a time traveling story where she ends up hidden behind a mantle that has already been onscreen. That way, there is a cost to Murphy standing by Harry. And, she is in a way seemingly written out of the story except she has always remained. We just find out she goes by another Name.
Also, if we take Jim's statement as some nugget of truth with respect to writing about "Murphy's funeral," then we must also consider the Gandalf the Grey death. In Lord of the Rings, Gandalf the Grey died. And yet, Gandalf the White rose. So, I wouldn't take it that 'Murphy's funeral" means Karrin Murphy dies, end of story. And we aren't even sure that "Murphy" necessarily means Karrin. There are other Murphy family members that can fit that name too.
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But in the Superman stories once Superman grew up he and all those around him seemed to freeze in time... While Murphy might remain meaningful as Harry's port in the storm, she isn't his only port anymore..
A port in the storm need not be a love interest. Michael is also like this for Harry. Murphy may become more of a sisterly type person for Dresden. I personally don't feel the chemistry for them anymore as lovers even if it was strongly suggested in Skin Game with Harry's dream.
Jim may have meant it as a joke, but even joking about it says it is on his mind..
Probably just wishful thinking :). Jim also knows how to tweak his fans.
True, most know perfectly well they are not on par with Harry, but Murphy doesn't... That is the point, she thinks she knows Harry and what is best for him, but she is in fact clueless about him, this is what made her a liability in Skin Game to the point of disaster, i.e. the breaking of a Holy Sword.. Someone earlier spoke of setting up what is to come in the next books... I think we are being prepared for her exit, whether it is a mere break up or something more lasting..
Murphy does know she's not on par. She took up the job because of love for Harry, it was also her reason for the Sword breaking. Harry was responsible for Excalibur nearly being destroyed.
I also think if her role is diminished from being someone who physically fights at Harry's side to some "emotional port in the storm," not just fans in general but her fans will be disappointed...
I'm a fan and wouldn't be bothered. I'd be more bothered if she died.
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Murphy does know she's not on par. She took up the job because of love for Harry, it was also her reason for the Sword breaking. Harry was responsible for Excalibur nearly being destroyed.
And for Harry it was a learning experience that he used against the Denarians in Small Favor. Who is to say Murphy won't use her learning experience with the breaking of the Sword of Faith later on too.
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And for Harry it was a learning experience that he used against the Denarians in Small Favor. Who is to say Murphy won't use her learning experience with the breaking of the Sword of Faith later on too.
I was just defending her for making an understandable error.
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Murphy does know she's not on par. She took up the job because of love for Harry, it was also her reason for the Sword breaking. Harry was responsible for Excalibur nearly being destroyed
Really? Which job? Knight or Custodian? Knight, Harry asked her because he was Custodian and she was the right match for the job to go to C.I. Beyond that I don't think he knew or understood about long term verses one night stand Knights... Perhaps Murphy accepted for the love of Harry but that was the wrong reason, which she at least understood about herself and rejected the long term gig... Custodian? Not so sure she did that for the love of Harry, more she thought there was no one else, but when Harry came back she clearly thought she knew better than him, that she knew all about him and why she was a better judge than he, she was totally wrong... Her reason for breaking the Sword had nothing to do with her love for Harry, it was about her putting herself in God's place to judge Nic.... He may have used her love of Harry to goad her into acting but it was her own arrogance that did it.
I'm a fan and wouldn't be bothered. I'd be more bothered if she died.
Again, really? Expand
And for Harry it was a learning experience that he used against the Denarians in Small Favor. Who is to say Murphy won't use her learning experience with the breaking of the Sword of Faith later on too.
You think she will get her hands on a Sword again? Doubtful, not unless she gives up her whole belief system.. Not saying she can't or won't, but.......
As for ports in a storm, Michael has proven himself a better one than Murphy as has Molly, Thomas, Gatekeeper, Eb, Listens to Wind, even Leah and Mab... She is just one of many...
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I was just defending her for making an understandable error.
It's not that understandable really. The logical choice would've been to shoot him. Even if she didn't know the sword's vulnerability, bullets are harder to dodge than blades, and given Murphy's background, it makes more sense to use her gun. Why use the sword? It seems to me that Uriel had a hand in this, culminating in Butters becoming a knight at the end.
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Perhaps Murphy accepted for the love of Harry but that was the wrong reason, which she at least understood about herself and rejected the long term gig...
The Sword worked perfectly for her up until Nicodemus surrendered. She was in the right up until that moment where emotion overran reason.
Custodian? Not so sure she did that for the love of Harry, more she thought there was no one else, but when Harry came back she clearly thought she knew better than him, that she knew all about him and why she was a better judge than he, she was totally wrong...
Really? Mab could literally have ordered Harry to get her the Sword and he'd have been powerless to stop it. Even without Mab's orders Harry was under the Mantle's influence. He was so terrified about the Winter Knight Mantle he chose suicide. If Harry was willing to have himself killed because of the Mantle why would Murphy trust the Sword with him?
Murphy's judgement was correct that a Sword may be vulnerable under such circumstances.
Her reason for breaking the Sword had nothing to do with her love for Harry, it was about her putting herself in God's place to judge Nic....
Quite a judgement being made there
As for ports in a storm, Michael has proven himself a better one than Murphy as has Molly, Thomas, Gatekeeper, Eb, Listens to Wind, even Leah and Mab... She is just one of many...
No such thing as too many people to love
Again, really? Expand
As a fan why would I prefer her to die?
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Really? Mab could literally have ordered Harry to get her the Sword and he'd have been powerless to stop it. Even without Mab's orders Harry was under the Mantle's influence. He was so terrified about the Winter Knight Mantle he chose suicide. If Harry was willing to have himself killed because of the Mantle why would Murphy trust the Sword with him?
Murphy's judgement was correct that a Sword may be vulnerable under such circumstances.
Not talking about Mab and the Sword... Oh Murphy was correct that the Sword was vulnerable but then she went ahead and did exactly the thing that made it vulnerable... But that isn't the point, the point is she is clueless about the post Changes Harry... She wants him to return to pre Changes Harry, that man is dead, she is afraid of the post changes Harry.. Does Murphy even realize that Harry suicided to avoid getting the Winter Knight's mantle? Or that he is on first name basis with an Archangel? Well, she might now..
The Sword worked perfectly for her up until Nicodemus surrendered. She was in the right up until that moment where emotion overran reason.
No, for the record her ovaries had nothing to do with it.... Love had nothing to do with it.. The Sword is meant to fight Denarians, but if the Denarian surrenders, then he/she is allowed a chance to seek a path to redemption.. Murphy says up front before the fight began, before that anyone knew she had the Sword concealed in that tube, that she didn't believe in redemption for Denarians.. What broke the Sword was her condemnation of Nic, the "damn you.." Judgement is for God not Knights..
Quite a judgement being made there
Only quoting or paraphrasing not just Michael's words, or Uriel's words, but Murphy's own words...
No such thing as too many people to love
True, but she isn't indispensable, Harry has many friends to turn to for love and support is the point..
As a fan why would I prefer her to die?
If she ceases to be Murphy you might.... If she goes too afar a field from what she originally was.. When the book is perhaps more readable without her than with her... Or it doesn't matter if she appears on the page or not..
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But wherein Murphy is apparently the worst, surely her ceasing to be Murphy would only be a good thing.
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But wherein Murphy is apparently the worst, surely her ceasing to be Murphy would only be a good thing.
(http://thumbpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Oh-I-see-what-you-did-there.jpg)
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But wherein Murphy is apparently the worst, surely her ceasing to be Murphy would only be a good thing.
Really? If she is no longer who she is at her core being, that is the problem, circumstances are now preventing her from being what she is.. She isn't a good listener, if that isn't fixed this port in the storm role isn't going to work, she isn't going to be content with that kind of role.
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I thought the problem was that who she is at her core being is a terrible person who is both insecure and overly arrogant at the same time, depending on what the worst possible option for her is. So being no longer who she is at her core being would be a good thing.
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There be a hook in that worm! Dont fall for it
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There be a hook in that worm! Dont fall for it
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3rgXBOmTlzyFCURutG/giphy.gif)
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Really? If she is no longer who she is at her core being, that is the problem, circumstances are now preventing her from being what she is.. She isn't a good listener, if that isn't fixed this port in the storm role isn't going to work, she isn't going to be content with that kind of role.
Harry would seem to disagree with his raging....... bed time incident.
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It's too soon for Murphy to die, if she's going to die at all. Won't be until Fight Night at least. It doesn't make much sense to me to have her and Harry get their relationship upgrade only to kill it immediately; we either need to love the two of them together and be therefore more heartbroken when she dies, or hate them together and celebrate when she dies. There's a whole aspect that needs to be explored before it can be ended to maximum effect, if Jim decides to end it at all. Personally, I think she'll kick the bucket in the last Case File book, Harry will recede into hermitude, and be called back in from retirement for the BAT.
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/3rgXBOmTlzyFCURutG/giphy.gif)
You know, sometimes I forget just how creepy Jack Nicholson can really be.
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You know, sometimes I forget just how creepy Jack Nicholson can really be.
lol yeah