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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: raidem on December 30, 2017, 12:00:51 AM
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I've bought and read one of the comics where Puck and Murphy go up against each other and Puck nearly knocks her out, permanently.
I saw the thought bubble which hints that Murphy's stand against Puck may result in unforeseen consequences. Of course, I chose to purchase the Puck vs Murphy edition to see if I could garner any clues about Murphy. So, in reading the limited episode out of 6, there is a suggestion that Murphy's standoff against Puck will have a unforeseen consequence. And, Murphy also impressed Puck.
Since I've only had and viewed part 4, i think, of a 6 part series, I was wondering if anyone had more to talk about regarding Puck. And, if you could answer some questions for me.
First question, Did Harry go to Lea for assistance against Puck? Did Puck interfere before Harry was able to consult Lea? Was Lea ever in the series onscreen with Harry.
I ask because in my head regarding my Murphy=Mab theory, Mab and Lea would have temporal restrictions placed on them from interfering with a Puck vs Murphy fight. Puck may be serving as some sort of chooser/teacher who later down the line cross paths again with Murphy in some sort of plan that involves time travel and a link between Murphy=>Mab. If in that link into the past Murphy greets and sees a young Lea, this history would likely require Murphy fighting Puck and TIME would likely want to minimize Lea's role in Murphy's history that leads up to that pivotal moment of connection between TTMurphy and YLea. (Young Lea)
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Harry summoned Lea, and she was going to help in exchange for nothing but Harry's well-being... but Puck reminded Lea that Mab was in his debt after he did a favor for her, and told her to get lost, so she wasn't of much use, and Harry had to figure out how to deal with Puck on his own. She didn't share a scene with Murphy.
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K. Thanks. I'll have to consider this in my theory.
We still have lea, mab seemingly being unable to interfere in the puck vs. Murphy fight specifically but also in the whole puck vs Chicago fight in general.
And it is sort of consistent with my prediction that she would be restrained from interfering possibly in my mind due to temporal reasons underlying that debt.
So, I conclude Murphy is at least being fashioned into a nevernever type entity at some point who will fight in that arena. It's why idharry tells Harry to tell Murphy everything about the nevernever.
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Who the HELL is Puck? Cause I keep thinking of the Marvel version of Puck with the dark razor and the midget height and that just can't be right lol.
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Who the HELL is Puck? Cause I keep thinking of the Marvel version of Puck with the dark razor and the midget height and that just can't be right lol.
Trickster faerie, mostly. Also known as Robin Goodfellow, and spends the entirety of A Midsummer Night's Dream trolling the humans and/or mucking things up in a funny way.
Also the subject of one of the best episodes of Gargoyles and one of my favorite characters from that, so now I guess I have to track this comic down.
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https://www.dynamite.com/previews/C72513024652305011/DresdenWildCard051.jpg
I didn't purchase the entire series just one episode of the six part series. It has Puck ambushing Murphy, and her pulling out all her tricks to survive, lure him to isolated place to protect innocents, and then unload on him. Puck then punches her lights out but Murphy had already called for backup and the cops arrive in time before he could do more than just that.
I think the following will hint at in part what she will become as a result of her stand against Puck:
In a flashback, her father tells her "The only think that ever lasts in this world is the impact we make on others. An act of courage or decency may only last a moment, but the effects can ripple outward forever." This is said exactly as she makes her last stand against Puck alone with steel-jacketed rounds. Her last stand is to protect Chicago from Puck who has killed cops, Marcone's men, and white court vampires. He has been setting the blame of these murders on each other.
Lidy states the following about Harry and Lea.
Harry summoned Lea, and she was going to help in exchange for nothing but Harry's well-being... but Puck reminded Lea that Mab was in his debt after he did a favor for her, and told her to get lost, so she wasn't of much use, and Harry had to figure out how to deal with Puck on his own. She didn't share a scene with Murphy.
So, it seems Lea herself can't interfere with Puck's mission and it's unlikely Mab herself would as she is already in Puck's debt. I had argued that there will be a connection later on between Murphy and Puck whereby Murphy gets indebted to Puck in her ascension to Mab 1000+ years back in the past.
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Oh lol... you know this actually might mesh with my Murphy as starborn/chooser aspect. If even partially correct she has the same potential to change things Harry does, she just lacks the magical Aura he projects onto everyone by proxy, she has to do it the old fashioned mortal way of antagonistic expression. She does this with both Harry and Butters btw to great effect.
Basically by either close relationship or butting heads she tempers the other person in ways, her confrontation of Harry's temper in WK being one example on par with the Butters incident.
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We also have WOJ that Puck is like 1500+ years old. He is older than our Mab.
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Oh lol... you know this actually might mesh with my Murphy as starborn/chooser aspect. If even partially correct she has the same potential to change things Harry does, she just lacks the magical Aura he projects onto everyone by proxy, she has to do it the old fashioned mortal way of antagonistic expression. She does this with both Harry and Butters btw to great effect.
Basically by either close relationship or butting heads she tempers the other person in ways, her confrontation of Harry's temper in WK being one example on par with the Butters incident.
Everybody has that potential, there wasn't anything supernatural about it. Sometimes just being willing to listen can change another persons life.
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Everybody has that potential, there wasn't anything supernatural about it. Sometimes just being willing to listen can change another persons life.
As it is applied in the books... no, not everybody has that potential. nor is that really a proper description... she certainly changed Denton's life, and that was her antagonistic contribution, Murder of the deserved.
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As it is applied in the books... no, not everybody has that potential. nor is that really a proper description... she certainly changed Denton's life, and that was her antagonistic contribution, Murder of the deserved.
so only 'special' people can commit murder?
I guess I'm not seeing how what Murphy did in those situations was 'supernatural'. She was being a friend/mentor/leader, but that's who/what she is.
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I could see Murphy's proximity and influence on Harry, a Starborn, placing similar influence upon Murphy.
There is WOJL that Harry heavily influences those around him, there might be a similar but opposite force going the other way around. Or, something being bestowed upon those he influences to become some sort of mini Starborn, not quite but I think you get the idea.
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so only 'special' people can commit murder?
I guess I'm not seeing how what Murphy did in those situations was 'supernatural'. She was being a friend/mentor/leader, but that's who/what she is.
I'm talking about Changing immortals, chaffing on allies in supernatural ways metaphysically tied into such mundane things as metaphorically applied in real life.
She was Judging and Choosing, because that's what she is. It's applied again and again, and in those situations where she tries to do so when it's not her place she inevitably fails.
Same as Saying Harry's meant to be a destroyer.. certainly there are others' but they aren't Harry Dresden.
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I'm talking about Changing immortals, chaffing on allies in supernatural ways metaphysically tied into such mundane things as metaphorically applied in real life.
She was Judging and Choosing, because that's what she is. It's applied again and again, and in those situations where she tries to do so when it's not her place she inevitably fails.
Same as Saying Harry's meant to be a destroyer.. certainly there are others' but they aren't Harry Dresden.
okay, sure, go with it. For me, she was being a friend, nothing supernatural required.
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okay, sure, go with it. For me, she was being a friend, nothing supernatural required.
Yea, great thing about being written on multiple levels huh? Enjoy all the Woj's about unintended consequences of hanging around Harry, him Naming things. Immortals being unchanging(and hey, Pucks not an Imm... oh, yea? He IS?) and how Nemesis can't mess with Angels because they are too absolute but Harry nicknaming Uriel scared the hell out of him, ect, ect. Sure, yea, i'll go with it all the way.
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Yea, great thing about being written on multiple levels huh? Enjoy all the Woj's about unintended consequences of hanging around Harry, him Naming things. Immortals being unchanging(and hey, Pucks not an Imm... oh, yea? He IS?) and how Nemesis can't mess with Angels because they are too absolute but Harry nicknaming Uriel scared the hell out of him, ect, ect. Sure, yea, i'll go with it all the way.
So you're saying that because of Harry, Murphy has become more than human... I can see where you're at, ok, but I like Karen as a straight vanilla mortal, she doesn't need to be a Valkyrie, she's good at being a cop and a friend who's there when you need them. Everything she's done, can be done as a mortal. With the exception of when TWG used her as a sock puppet. Harry has enough supernatural beings surrounding him, she should remain his touchstone to humanity.
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So you're saying that because of Harry, Murphy has become more than human... I can see where you're at, ok, but I like Karen as a straight vanilla mortal, she doesn't need to be a Valkyrie, she's good at being a cop and a friend who's there when you need them. Everything she's done, can be done as a mortal. With the exception of when TWG used her as a sock puppet. Harry has enough supernatural beings surrounding him, she should remain his touchstone to humanity.
Oh no, what she does is all her own, but that's my point, she can do it just as Harry does. She actually overrides Harry's influence quite often as she continually keeps him in line with that mortal perspective.
and I insist, although she's very familiar to Gard it's no more or less than Harry is to Odin. She will become a chooser and a judge, an dare I say a warrior princess but Valkyrie is just an expression of those base elements. There's another mythos at play that makes her potential futures easier to see... but i'm not telling which one that is, though i'm sure most know about it anyway.
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Oh no, what she does is all her own, but that's my point, she can do it just as Harry does. She actually overrides Harry's influence quite often as she continually keeps him in line with that mortal perspective.
and I insist, although she's very familiar to Gard it's no more or less than Harry is to Odin. She will become a chooser and a judge, an dare I say a warrior princess but Valkyrie is just an expression of those base elements. There's another mythos at play that makes her potential futures easier to see... but i'm not telling which one that is, though i'm sure most know about it anyway.
ok. Then I hope we can agree to disagree. I agree with the influence that she has, I just don't think that it needs to be supernatural in origin, and I think that she is and will continue to be vanilla mortal, someone needs to.
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ok. Then I hope we can agree to disagree. I agree with the influence that she has, I just don't think that it needs to be supernatural in origin, and I think that she is and will continue to be vanilla mortal, someone needs to.
DONT EVER READ PEACE TALKS! lololmao
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Raidem, do you have a write-up of your theory? I have a few thoughts about time travel, but so far I think they're very, very, very, very, very (keep repeating until you get tired) different from yours. If so, can you link it up for me? Thanks.
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I have pieces here and there among the topics and threads. Some of it is in long lost threads. I'll try to assemble a bunch of stuff soon, hopefully before the transition.
I think I have a Murphy thread somewhere. There is a Ms. Duck thread on Molly=Mab theory which I've used as a template, but mine is more precise and targeted than hers given new information about our Mab's history. This is Ms. Duck's theory. Just twist it like I said with the focus on Murphy instead of Molly for my theory.
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,32663.msg1452169.html#msg1452169
Now, on time travel in general, I had a future=>past thread years ago, where I argued that some figures and/or knowledge went into the distant past. Essentially I argued that perhaps Skakespeare's work, or some entity like Bob or Bonnie(Lash's offspring) gets left in the past with a history of some of the future literature, which forms the basis of the language for the fae and the archetypes of some creatures, like the scarecrow, etc that had appeared in modern cinema. Bob becomes some sort of basis for Demonreach, Bonnie becomes bound to the first Archive, etc, perhaps Harry's allies assume some mantles of god's when they go into distant past to help Harry fight some bad thing that tries to undo something and is countered by our good guys.
My next piece is based off of both IdHarry and Uriel's hint that "No matter where you go, there you are." I believe this to be a hint that Harry can return to instances of where he had been, just like IdHarry had just visited him. Further, I believe the "there you are" phrase may be a hint as to a time in which Harry may revisit that occasion in the books later on. There are a couple of "there you are" that take place during the showdown at the masquerade in GP, so my theory holds that the masquerade will be repeated with those lines about "there you are" being repeated.
Lastly, I believe that there are ongoing assaults against the timeline to prevent Murphy from becoming Mab. (You could also argue the assaults against the timeline are more targeted against Harry, but I'm a Murphy fan so its all about her.) It has already happened in one timeline, one reality and we are seeing an attempt to prevent it in another. Or, if that doesn't succeed at least so damage her and her pride by taking her "Harry" away from her. Though I'm sure we probably wouldn't see much in the way of her inured pride, but I'd imagine it would be there similar to her injured pride when nemesis got to Maeve.
My Marcone is Harry/Murphy's son and Nic is Malcolm Dresden theory is really just tangential and to some extent beside the point because I'm more devoted to the Murphy/Mab theory and if it falls, the others likely fall as well.
I think that is a brief synopsis of my theories. Did you have more questions specific to time travel itself? Vadderung in Cold Days talks about twinned universes arising out of paradoxes like the one described where you both succeed in killing your grandfather creating a reality in which you were never born and failing to kill your grandfather in which case you likely got your butt kicked with the universe carrying on...
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Raidem has found a disciple!
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heh, Dresden Files is what's called a casual loop, at least in so much as from the observer effect of it... plus the whole gyre thing, that's always important because if anyone ever really thinks about what it means it says a lot.
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This thread has a compilation of links or comments that are relevant to Murphy/Mab.
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,50304.msg2291717.html#msg2291717