ParanetOnline
The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: wardenferry419 on November 14, 2017, 11:13:18 AM
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A thread about an unwritten fan favorite.
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A thread about an unwritten fan favorite.
I can personally guarantee that there will be an "I DON'T KNOW WHO TO SHOOT" moment because Alternaharry has shaved his goatee.
Also that Alternaharry grew the goatee because he realized that he was in the Evil universe.
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Quick - what scene from the star trek episode could best work in the new universe.
best guess - in star trek the "dark" spock proved an ally. My guess is that there will be dark ally of Dark Harry that proved an ally. Lash or Molly or Lea or who?
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A dark Thomas who lost Justine in GP, who reluctantly works with alt-Harry due to family ties, but who helps our Harry because our Harry helped save Justine?
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It's dark Murphy.
In ST:TOS Kirk and Spok are best friends. Same in TDF of Harry and Murphy.
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a Rudolph who is not so scared of the supernatural that he does not acknowledge its existence. instead he is more like Waldo butters and through his friendship with Mortimer and his apprentice molly has protected Chicago from the supernatural.
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I am okay with Morty and Molly but Rudy has to go.
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A dark Thomas who lost Justine in GP, who reluctantly works with alt-Harry due to family ties, but who helps our Harry because our Harry helped save Justine?
I like this one.
Not everyone in the other universe is evil. They are just different due to the things -Harry has done.
My question: who has -Harry killed in his universe? My bet would be Morgan. If he turned dark, Morgan would come gunning for him and -Harry would have to kill him, and want to from all the pent up rage over how Morgan has treated him.
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Lara, maybe, since he would be less chivalrous. Maybe some young wardens like Carlos.
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I like the Morgan theory. But I'd think if Harry really went that dark, even Murphy is a possibility.
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I like this one.
Not everyone in the other universe is evil. They are just different due to the things -Harry has done.
My question: who has -Harry killed in his universe? My bet would be Morgan. If he turned dark, Morgan would come gunning for him and -Harry would have to kill him, and want to from all the pent up rage over how Morgan has treated him.
Depending on how dark, pretty much everybody he neglected to chase after in order to save a bystander or friend. Like what he did to the Alien in Proven Guilty that he felt guilty about because the convention girl died. "Hard choice" deaths, if that makes sense.
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Hoe involved would he have gotten with some of the cases if he went to the dark side?
Mab cornered him in good in SK.
Michael might have been less certain of Harry's goodness in DM.
Thomas might not have asked for help in BR.
Harry might not have been made a Warden in DB.
Molly could have died a warlock in PG.
Lara might have whammied Harry without Susan's love protection in WN.
And so on....
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Yeah, Summer Knight would still have happened, but may not have turned out the same way. Beyond that, its all up in the air.
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The thing least likely to happen due to Harry going bad. The BDSM sex with Susan and Maggie.
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The thing least likely to happen due to Harry going bad. The BDSM sex with Susan and Maggie.
Well, with Susan being a full vamp ... I'm doubting Maggie would have happened for sure.
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Don't forget the bondage sex that caused it! :)
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But it wouldn't have happened due to her all vampy-ness.
Now a BDSM scene with Lara could have been in the cards.
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Ohh, choices, choices, choices. Which one would have been more fun? I mean for Harry, yeah Harry. Not me the reader, Harry the hero.
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Molly could have died a warlock in PG.
Actually, this one is interesting. Molly getting in trouble in Proven Guilty is an indirect result of Harry picking up Lasciel's Coin. Harry had consciously avoided Michael ever since, to the point where he hadn't seen him in a couple of years (especially odd because they're pretty much best bros). Because Harry wasn't around, he didn't pick up any of the signs from Molly, and she didn't have the opportunity to casually talk to him about it. Mab even lampshades it in Cold Days (page 480 on Nook):
"...Then when she went to explore the Art, you elected not to interfere until such time as she found herself in dire straits..."
Harry's absence, especially after his frequent presence and mysterious example, is one of the things that engineered Molly's circumstances. So, in Mirror, Mirror, if he didn't pick up the Coin, maybe Molly never went warlock in the first place. I'd actually like that, because the Mirrorverse might be a bit boring if everything is objectively worse in every regard, you know?
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I don't think Michael would be as trusting of Darth Harry.
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I wonder if Harry HAD been around to catch on to Molly's budding powers, if that would have had a negative effect on the creation of the Paranet.
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Maybe not, the idea of the Paranet came in the next book about witch-culling.
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Yeah, but he may not have caught on quickly enough because he was focused on Molly.
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I agree that Molly was a big influence; but, I think the beheaded Korean boy was significant as well.
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Actually, this one is interesting. Molly getting in trouble in Proven Guilty is an indirect result of Harry picking up Lasciel's Coin. Harry had consciously avoided Michael ever since, to the point where he hadn't seen him in a couple of years (especially odd because they're pretty much best bros). Because Harry wasn't around, he didn't pick up any of the signs from Molly, and she didn't have the opportunity to casually talk to him about it. Mab even lampshades it in Cold Days (page 480 on Nook):
Harry's absence, especially after his frequent presence and mysterious example, is one of the things that engineered Molly's circumstances. So, in Mirror, Mirror, if he didn't pick up the Coin, maybe Molly never went warlock in the first place. I'd actually like that, because the Mirrorverse might be a bit boring if everything is objectively worse in every regard, you know?
I see either two things happening. Either Harry is more involved in Molly's training from an earlier point and thus prevents her from going warlock due to not picking up the coin. On the other hand, Harry could withdraw due to Susans (supposed death/turning) and once again misses the signs of Molly's training leading to a similar outcome as the prime reality or a worse outcome in which she is either dead or joined with supernatural bad guys in her quest for power.
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I think that were like five futures described in PG soulgaze. Which will we get in MM?
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I think that were like five futures described in PG soulgaze. Which will we get in MM?
Here we go:
One was an emaciated version of Molly, as though she'd been starved or strung out on hard drugs, her eyes aglow with an unpleasant, fey light. One was her smiling and laughing, older and comfortably heavier, children surrounding her. A third faced me in a grey Warden's cloak, though a burn scar, almost a brand, marred the roundness of her left cheek. Still another reflection was Molly as she appeared now, though more secure, laughter dancing in her eyes. Another reflection showed her at a desk, working.
But the last...
The last reflection of Molly wasn't the girl. Oh, it looked like Molly, externally. But the eyes gave it away. They were flat as a reptile's, empty. She wore all black, including a black collar, and her hair had been dyed to match. Though she looked like Molly, like a human being, she was neither. She had become something else entirely, something very, very bad.
So six views:
1. Drug Addict Molly
2. Mother Molly with children
3. Warden Molly
4. Normal Molly (possibly apprenticed to Harry)
5. Non-supernatural normal Molly
6. Warlock Molly
I am going with whatever causes Harry the most pain. To me that is either Warden Molly who is firmly set against Harry (actively hates maybe) or Warlock Molly who is allied with Mirror Harry, but is evil and twisted.
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The apprentice with the burn on her cheek. Harry's attitude changed enough that he went through with his ball o' sunshine.
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1. Drug Addict Molly
2. Mother Molly with children
3. Warden Molly
4. Normal Molly (possibly apprenticed to Harry)
5. Non-supernatural normal Molly
6. Warlock Molly
Howcome Winter Lady Molly never showed up in that soulgaze? Was it because it was such an unlikely scenario? Or was it because becoming the Winter Lady wasn't Molly's choice, but a consequence of other's Choices.
If it's the second, MMHarry's choice in GP could open some possibilities to Molly that weren't shown to our Harry in the soulgaze.
That being said, from a doylist perspective, if Jim had a plan for MM-Molly back when he wrote PG, I can't imagine he would have written the soulgaze scene without giving us a hint of it.
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I am going with whatever causes Harry the most pain. To me that is either Warden Molly who is firmly set against Harry (actively hates maybe) or Warlock Molly who is allied with Mirror Harry, but is evil and twisted.
Hate-filled Warden Molly could easily come to pass if Michael didn't make it out of GP or DM because of something -Harry did did differently. If she grew up on Charity blaming -Harry for her beloved father's death, coming into her power later could look like a fate-given chance to bring -Harry to justice.
If Morgan doesn't bite it in the alternate timeline, Molly as his fanatical apprentice on the hunt for -Harry would make for a really entertaining pair of antagonists.
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I can personally guarantee that there will be an "I DON'T KNOW WHO TO SHOOT" moment because Alternaharry has shaved his goatee.
Also that Alternaharry grew the goatee because he realized that he was in the Evil universe.
Only if Harry is also missing an eye, or the other Harry creates an illusion since mm Harry has an eye patch.
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Hate-filled Warden Molly could easily come to pass if Michael didn't make it out of GP or DM because of something -Harry did did differently. If she grew up on Charity blaming -Harry for her beloved father's death, coming into her power later could look like a fate-given chance to bring -Harry to justice.
If Morgan doesn't bite it in the alternate timeline, Molly as his fanatical apprentice on the hunt for -Harry would make for a really entertaining pair of antagonists.
This one sounds like it will be most interesting read, especially with the ball of sunshine.
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I'm still stuck on Molly being a Warlock. Without Harry, I don't know who else would have figured out she'd come into her powers.
I doubt Morgan would have taken her on as an apprentice / Jr Warden given his hatred for all things warlocky.
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Howcome Winter Lady Molly never showed up in that soulgaze? Was it because it was such an unlikely scenario? Or was it because becoming the Winter Lady wasn't Molly's choice, but a consequence of other's Choices.
If it's the second, MMHarry's choice in GP could open some possibilities to Molly that weren't shown to our Harry in the soulgaze.
That being said, from a doylist perspective, if Jim had a plan for MM-Molly back when he wrote PG, I can't imagine he would have written the soulgaze scene without giving us a hint of it.
Simply put, WL Molly was too far in the future. The images were of the next stage in her life, the 6 most likely forms to come from her state of mind. The soulgaze could not predict future events. Winter Lady Molly came out of the Apprentice Molly image.
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I'm still stuck on Molly being a Warlock. Without Harry, I don't know who else would have figured out she'd come into her powers.
I doubt Morgan would have taken her on as an apprentice / Jr Warden given his hatred for all things warlocky.
The Warden / Morgan's apprentice theory would assume she didn't commit the initial mental invasion of Rosie and Nelson in the mirror timeline.
Her whole track of experimenting on her own once she realized she had power was heavily influenced by idolizing Harry and not wanting him to see her fumbling around as an amateur. If she instead grew up hating him for causing Michael's death, she probably would have taken discovering her power as a Sign From God that she was meant to avenge her father. Best way to do that is to seek out the Council for training.
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The Warden / Morgan's apprentice theory would assume she didn't commit the initial mental invasion of Rosie and Nelson in the mirror timeline.
Her whole track of experimenting on her own once she realized she had power was heavily influenced by idolizing Harry and not wanting him to see her fumbling around as an amateur. If she instead grew up hating him for causing Michael's death, she probably would have taken discovering her power as a Sign From God that she was meant to avenge her father. Best way to do that is to seek out the Council for training.
With her Mother's antagonism for all things magic, I don't know how she'd go about it.
Then again, she did learn a bit from books and the like. So, I see it's plausible.
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I want all the Mirror, Mirror side books. And I want them soon :D
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What if Harry goes so dark that he takes Molly as an apprentice and lover? What if he gets her addicted to 3rd eye drug? Molly is drawn to the darkness and becomes that evil thing that looks like Molly but isn't. Harry trying to do right involves a pitcher of ice water. Harry not caring might see a powerful, love-smitten young girl in other ways.
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Hmm... I had girlfiends about 7 years younger than I so I can't say I'd condemn Harry. But why would she need 3rd eye drug? She literally has a 3rd eye.
And I don't think that "Evil" Harry will be _that_ evil. It's Harry. Goofy, shy, supernuker... but still Harry. Maybe with a few dings more. Maybe a bit more unscrupulous, because he knows the price for when situations don't get solved.
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I was thinking about the "fey light in her eyes" potential image of Molly from PG. We know what it does to non-practitioners; what would it do to a magic-user? BK3 Harry was goofy with women. But, if sub-Harry is having more say 5 years later; which I think is happening because alt-Harry and sub-Harry are very similar, then using Molly in that way might seem more acceptable and doable.
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And I can't say that I'd have a problem with that. Molly is a nice character. A bit too uncomplicated for me and too much of a goody-two-shoes, but a fine woman apart from that. She kinda fits Harry a lot more than Karrin.
Not to forget how Karrin+Harry intro is being dragged out. She'll be barren by the time they sleep together.
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I think Harry has enough offspring to worry about. The man that has the hardest time with women has two daughters. How evil does that make Butcher?
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I for one wouldn't mind having children :) I can't see the evil in that. Also: One of them is a spirit, so there will be no cost regarding schools, feeding bills or clothing. Unless Harry decides to make some kind of a special jewelry so she can be outside all the time to make it even more complicated... Oh! Wai-
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Maggie could wear a necklace with her spirit sister in it. Interesting.
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Wait, wait, wait... She's supposed to be the new Bob, only not so... lascivious. Hm... nevermind.
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To be fair, Bob spent way too much time with young and eager Harry. Bonnie has a better chance now.
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To be fair, Bob spent way too much time with young and eager Harry. Bonnie has a better chance now.
Hmm... from what I understand, Bob's personality is a reflection of the owner of the skull. The Butters' Bob version is an exception, you know, first impressions and all that.
I'll sorely miss the banter with Bob. And him cursing at Dresden in Greek :D
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I'll miss it too. But, it is not gone for good. Just limited.
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And I can't say that I'd have a problem with that. Molly is a nice character. A bit too uncomplicated for me and too much of a goody-two-shoes, but a fine woman apart from that. She kinda fits Harry a lot more than Karrin.
Not to forget how Karrin+Harry intro is being dragged out. She'll be barren by the time they sleep together.
This is not paranormal romance, the relation stuff is driven by he story not the other way round.
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Hmm... from what I understand, Bob's personality is a reflection of the owner of the skull. The Butters' Bob version is an exception, you know, first impressions and all that.
I'll sorely miss the banter with Bob. And him cursing at Dresden in Greek :D
But if he didn't leave Dres, Butters wouldn't be able to have a dozen consequence-free power ups.
And we couldn't have that.
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But if he didn't leave Dres, Butters wouldn't be able to have a dozen consequence-free power ups.
And we couldn't have that.
Without that Bob would never have discovered the internet and we would have missed his posts on this forum....
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Which one of us is secretly Bob?
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Which one of us is secretly Bob?
The one who knows more than he/she should....
Plot Twist: Bob is Jim Butcher writing these case files that are based on real life events.
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<------ is NOT Bob. Most definitely NOT Bob.
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<------ is NOT Bob. Most definitely NOT Bob.
Of course not but now I need Jim to write a short story from Bob's pov.
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The only place that a Bob story would fit in would be an issue of Hustler.
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The only place that a Bob story would fit in would be an issue of Hustler.
You underestimate Bob. He is also into food now.
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I am pretty sure no cooking publication will like his suggestions for desert arrangement.
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I am pretty sure no cooking publication will like his suggestions for desert arrangement.
Ever watched Nigella Lawson on TV?
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No, but I just google-imaged her. Might need to hone my kitchen skills some. ;)
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No, but I just google-imaged her. Might need to hone my kitchen skills some. ;)
Just watch her on youtube, then you get the idea.
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My god! Looks, cooks, and a British accent. I think I am in love.
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Favorite theory is still Gentleman John Marcone, Knight of the Cross.
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You underestimate Bob. He is also into food now.
The only place that a Bob story would fit in would be an issue of Hustler.
Food Porn?
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Food Porn?
That display in Ghost Story was exactly that.
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That display in Ghost Story was exactly that.
Right. Totally beautiful, but completely empty. LOL
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Favorite theory is still Gentleman John Marcone, Knight of the Cross.
Oh no doubt. He's a spitting example of Arthur reborn. He's just not on the rise in this universe. but someone pointed out to me the other day the name Amanda, as in Amanda Beckitt the coma girl, actually means 'worthy of love'. idk if our version will ever get the chance though...
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Oh no doubt. He's a spitting example of Arthur reborn. He's just not on the rise in this universe. but someone pointed out to me the other day the name Amanda, as in Amanda Beckitt the coma girl, actually means 'worthy of love'. idk if our version will ever get the chance though...
There's also Amanda Carpenter, my current pick (courtesy of my father for pointing out her potential). You'll know it if she suddenly shows up more in the next couple of books, maybe through Maggie (maybe as her babysitter).
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There's also Amanda Carpenter, my current pick (courtesy of my father for pointing out her potential). You'll know it if she suddenly shows up more in the next couple of books, maybe through Maggie (maybe as her babysitter).
With the Carpenter kids getting older I find it hard to believe the they will not be having a larger role in the stories.
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With the Carpenter kids getting older I find it hard to believe the they will not be having a larger role in the stories.
I think their role in a given book will largely depend on how involved Michael and Charity remain. Molly's side character arc involves her anxiety over withholding her current state from her family. I expect that to have some impact on Peace Talks, during which I'm fairly certain Molly will return to the forefront, considering it's an Unseelie Accords event. I doubt Jim will have that inevitable interaction happen off-page. Regardless, it would be a good opportunity to start involving the Carpenter kids more and developing characters a bit. We know Daniel the best, but almost nothing about Amanda aside from her relative calm, that she keeps her uniform on after school, and that she prefers "Hobbit" (which, to me, is a red flag, considering the vast number of Hobbit and Lord of the Rings references throughout the series—just like Goodman Grey recognizing the quote in Skin Game was a clue about his allegiance (cuz the bad guys never get Dresden's references).
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Favorite theory is still Gentleman John Marcone, Knight of the Cross.
I don't see how that's possible.
Remember that the choice that Harry makes, that splits the timelines is in Grave Peril. Johnny Marcone is already a Bad-guy by that point. He'd have to make a serious change in his life outlook, based on a Change that Harry makes, for him to become a KotC.
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I think their role in a given book will largely depend on how involved Michael and Charity remain. Molly's side character arc involves her anxiety over withholding her current state from her family. I expect that to have some impact on Peace Talks, during which I'm fairly certain Molly will return to the forefront, considering it's an Unseelie Accords event. I doubt Jim will have that inevitable interaction happen off-page. Regardless, it would be a good opportunity to start involving the Carpenter kids more and developing characters a bit. We know Daniel the best, but almost nothing about Amanda aside from her relative calm, that she keeps her uniform on after school, and that she prefers "Hobbit" (which, to me, is a red flag, considering the vast number of Hobbit and Lord of the Rings references throughout the series—just like Goodman Grey recognizing the quote in Skin Game was a clue about his allegiance (cuz the bad guys never get Dresden's references).
Could someone remind me of the LOTR quote Goodman Grey recognizes. My memory is foggy right now.
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Did a quick skim through Grey's dialogue but I couldn't find any LOTR references. The most overt pop-culture reference he makes with Harry is during the bank break-in, before Tessa attacks Harry in the vault.
From Chapter 35:
“If I wanted to shut this thing down,” I said, “I could have done it pretty much anytime in the past twenty minutes.” I shifted to a maniacally indeterminate European accent and said, “We’re going through.”
“The Black Hole?” Grey asked, incredulously. “Nobody quotes The Black Hole, Dresden. Nobody even remembers that one.”
“Hogwash. Ernest Borgnine, Anthony Perkins, and Roddy McDowall all in the same movie? Immortality.”
“Roddy McDowall was just the voice of the robot.”
“Yeah. And the robots were awesome.”
“Cheap Star Wars knockoffs,” Grey sneered.
“Not necessarily mutually exclusive,” I said.
“I wasn’t worried about you scrubbing the mission,” he said. “I was thinking you might indulge yourself in a little Robin Hood action against this Marcone character.”
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Did a quick skim through Grey's dialogue but I couldn't find any LOTR references. The most overt pop-culture reference he makes with Harry is during the bank break-in, before Tessa attacks Harry in the vault.
From Chapter 35:
That's the one I was talking about. Sorry, I was unclear; I meant Harry's references to everything, not just Lord of the Rings. None of the bad guys get his jokes.
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That's the one I was talking about. Sorry, I was unclear; I meant Harry's references to everything, not just Lord of the Rings. None of the bad guys get his jokes.
That is the common theme. All those pop culture references fly right over the bad guys heads. I liked the moment in Cold Days when Bob made a pop culture reference that Harry didn't get and it upset hum.
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Whay one was that?
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Chapter 17
Bob’s eyelights brightened to brilliance and suddenly cast double cones of light on the wall. There was a scratchy sound that seemed to emanate from the skull itself, a blur of a sound like an old film sound track warming up, and then the old spotlight-sweeping 20th Century Fox logo appeared on the wall, along with the pompous trumpet-led symphony theme that often accompanied it.
“A movie?” I asked. “You can play movies?”
“And music! And TV! Butters gave me the Internet, baby! Now hush and pay attention.”
The opening logo bit faded to black and then familiar blue lettering appeared. It read: A LONG TIME AGO, PRETTY MUCH RIGHT HERE . . .
“Okay, come on,” I said. “You’re going to buy me a lawsuit, Bob.”
“Hush, Harry. Or you’ll go to the special hell.”
I blinked at that, confused. I’m not supposed to be the guy who doesn’t get the reference joke, dammit.
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Thanks, I forgot the Firefly reference.
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Funny, that joke popped into my head this morning before I read this thread.
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I think of that line and my next thought is Christina Hendricks.
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Chapter 17
That was because he was on track to becomming evil, those were early warning signals.
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I think of that line and my next thought is Christina Hendricks.
She's rarely far from my thoughts, too.
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I'm kind of a fan of the more subtle option.
A Mirror Harry that is more or less still Prime Harry, only pragmatic. Willing to make the compromise for the greater good. Still hyper protective of what he sees as 'his.' Basically, a guy that is or could be Marcone's 'business partner' on the supernatural side of things. Chicago with those two running it would be amazing to witness. It also would give Harry more insight into himself than a straight up mustache twirling version of himself would.
IMO This would be a great way to show him (and us) the costs if he had followed that path without mucking around with the 'Prime' parts of the story.
PS Harry is familiar with the 'evil overlord' list. I sincerely hope Mirror Harry or Prime Harry brings it up at some point.
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That is the common theme. All those pop culture references fly right over the bad guys heads. I liked the moment in Cold Days when Bob made a pop culture reference that Harry didn't get and it upset hum.
Which makes it all the more tragic when you realize that Hannah Ascher got the jokes...
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Which makes it all the more tragic when you realize that Hannah Ascher got the jokes...
Who said it was Hannah who got the jokes?
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Who said it was Hannah who got the jokes?
I did, unless we want to entertain the Idea that Lasciel is one of the Good Guys :P
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I did, unless we want to entertain the Idea that Lasciel is one of the Good Guys :P
Lasciel is certainly the one who knows Harry best.
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I did, unless we want to entertain the Idea that Lasciel is one of the Good Guys :P
Nah, she just did a heap of pop-culture research before the heist because she wanted another shot at seducing Harry using Hannah as a proxy.
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Nah, she just did a heap of pop-culture research before the heist because she wanted another shot at seducing Harry using Hannah as a proxy.
She did not have to because she was in Harry's head. The reason she knew exactly what to say to get Harry to kill himself. Probably the reason she knew about their daughter though Nicodemus could have told her as well.
It is what Harry learned after white night that gave him an edge.
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Lasciel is certainly the one who knows Harry best.
She did not have to because she was in Harry's head. The reason she knew exactly what to say to get Harry to kill himself. Probably the reason she knew about their daughter though Nicodemus could have told her as well.
It is what Harry learned after white night that gave him an edge.
On the topic of Lasciel. Harry had an imprint of Lasciel in his brain he named Lash. She developed into a separate entity. Harry never took up the coin and Lash sacrificed herself to save Harry meaning that Lash was never reabsorbed into Lasciel. How then did Lasciel gain any intimate knowledge of Harry? That knowledge died with Lash. Although some or maybe all of it passed to Bonnie.
Pop culture references were probably all Hannah. I do not think that Lasciel knows Harry at all except by reputation and what was passed along by Nic. Hannah's anger at Harry for the destruction of her friends fed into Lasciel's anger at Harry for his refusal of her and vice versa. Lasciel is angry because her shadow failed to seduce Harry meaning that she failed. The fact that Harry and her shadow had a "baby" means that Harry seduced the shadow which only rubs salt in the wound. She easily could have found out about Bonnie from Nic as Harry told Murphy about the "parasite" in an unsecured environment (which in retrospect was not smart of Harry. He knew Anduriel was most likely Listening and yet still revealed a weakness/weapon/desirable possession).
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On the topic of Lasciel. Harry had an imprint of Lasciel in his brain he named Lash. She developed into a separate entity. Harry never took up the coin and Lash sacrificed herself to save Harry meaning that Lash was never reabsorbed into Lasciel. How then did Lasciel gain any intimate knowledge of Harry? That knowledge died with Lash. Although some or maybe all of it passed to Bonnie.
Pop culture references were probably all Hannah. I do not think that Lasciel knows Harry at all except by reputation and what was passed along by Nic. Hannah's anger at Harry for the destruction of her friends fed into Lasciel's anger at Harry for his refusal of her and vice versa. Lasciel is angry because her shadow failed to seduce Harry meaning that she failed. The fact that Harry and her shadow had a "baby" means that Harry seduced the shadow which only rubs salt in the wound. She easily could have found out about Bonnie from Nic as Harry told Murphy about the "parasite" in an unsecured environment (which in retrospect was not smart of Harry. He knew Anduriel was most likely Listening and yet still revealed a weakness/weapon/desirable possession).
I remember woj that she had that knowledge. The shadow was blocked from communicating but she could still get her info.
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I remember woj that she had that knowledge. The shadow was blocked from communicating but she could still get her info.
Could you point me toward it? I didint think we had anything specific on that link, but it's likely a post- SG WOJ that arent as thoroughly cataloged.
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Could you point me toward it? I didint think we had anything specific on that link, but it's likely a post- SG WOJ that arent as thoroughly cataloged.
I am horrible at that kind of thing, I just remember and forget were I heard it an I am not going to listen to hours of youtube to get it. But I will give it a try later.
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Could you point me toward it? I didint think we had anything specific on that link, but it's likely a post- SG WOJ that arent as thoroughly cataloged.
I could not find it but this quote from skin game points into the same direction:
, I had a pretty solid intuition that Ascher could keep throwing fire until I was a gasping heap on the ground, especially with Lasciel’s knowledge and experience backing her up. Worse, Lasciel knew me, inside and out. Or at least, she had known me. So it was time to use a few tricks I’d developed since we’d parted ways.
It was part of her that was with Harry. She knew him good enough to speak those seven words that killed him. She helped Assher with handling Harry.
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Could you point me toward it? I didint think we had anything specific on that link, but it's likely a post- SG WOJ that arent as thoroughly cataloged.
I second it as a confirmed rumored Woj, lol. Thought he talked about how well the circle actually contained Lasciel. I'm actually fairly certain it helped Lash in becoming her own being, in that it kept Lasciel's actual influence at bay while she deviated from it.
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Okay, Harry had Lasciel's shadow in his head for years. Further there was a connection, though blocked, from Lash to Lasciel.
Here's my theory...
When Lash sacrificed herself, she and Harry created Bonnie. And we know that Lash wasn't 100% gone, because she was still able to help Harry with his Guitar Composition.
This suggests that the link between Harry/Bonnie and Lasciel may have still had some life. So, when Harry busted the coin out of his vault, and gave it to Fr. Forthill, Lasiel was able to take a "reading" from Harry. While she could no longer exert any influence, I think the link hadn't completely been destroyed. I think that since then, Harry's healing has closed those holes in his brain, completely cutting him off from Lasciel, but she still had "Read access" to his mind for awhile.
I do not believe she has any access to Bonnie. But who knows?
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The point is I think that link gave Lasciel a better understanding of Harry and knowledge about him other evil entities do not have and made it possible for Lasciel to help Hanna with the reference jokes.
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The point is I think that link gave Lasciel a better understanding of Harry and knowledge about him other evil entities do not have and made it possible for Lasciel to help Hanna with the reference jokes.
I think that's it.
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The point is I think that link gave Lasciel a better understanding of Harry and knowledge about him other evil entities do not have and made it possible for Lasciel to help Hanna with the reference jokes.
I guess while I dont dispute that Lasciel should Know him better than nearly any other entity out there, at the end of the day I prefer to think that Hannah was simply a Xanth fan and had read similar books as Harry, and was still a decent person just made some bad decisions. A big part of her impact as a character is that she was basically just Harry with slightly less internal fortitude (or more likely fewer true friends to lean on). Similarly Id rather believe her (I think very wise) relationship advice to harry was just decent advice from one human being to another, and not part of some elaborate manipulation by Lasciel.
"There but the grace of God goes Harry Dresden..." and all that.
And devils advocate: Lasciel might arguably Know Harry better than anyone else around, but she's also the one that has FAILED to manipulate him every time she's tried :P
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Could you point me toward it? I didint think we had anything specific on that link, but it's likely a post- SG WOJ that arent as thoroughly cataloged.
I don't have the source handy, but someone asked him how much of Lash's interaction with Harry she was aware of, and the answer was "all of it". But I think it was a one-way feed where she saw and heard Lash' experiences but couldn't transmit back.
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I don't have the source handy, but someone asked him how much of Lash's interaction with Harry she was aware of, and the answer was "all of it". But I think it was a one-way feed where she saw and heard Lash' experiences but couldn't transmit back.
Yes that was the one I remembered. Must have been terribly frustrating for her when she saw her shadow being “corrupted” by Harry while she could not do anything about it.
Explains why she went over the line and how she had the knowledge to do so.