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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: wardenferry419 on September 28, 2017, 12:35:25 AM
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Since Marcone has been a frequent topic recently, I thought a discussion on how much he knew or saw of the non-normal prior to SF might be interesting.
Some points I have been thinking about are: his willingness to buy off a recognized "charlatan" of magic, his state of preparedness for Harry's soulgaze, his unusual acceptance of magic as a cause of death, and his less skeptical attitude when compared with Murphy and others that have been exposed to the supernatural.
I believe that sometime during Marcone's military and criminal career he witness supernatural acts. I would not be surprised that he changed his name due to being related to or a known associate of a magic user. Having a dossier on Harry, due to his police connections or his public claims of being a wizard, would be well within Marcone SOP.
Anyone else's thoughts on the matter?
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I kind of want him to have been involved in the Cambodian/Saigon evacuations, the Tehran mission, and the Grenada Invasion just so he'd have different cultural experiences with magic.
I can assume, for most, that the sight of an enraged wizard is
the most terrible thing they'll ever see. Our resident spellcaster,
with his considerable height, dark eyes and foreboding glower,
is no exception. I've seen brave men -- men who have stared
unflinchingly down the barrel at certain death -- cower in his
presence.
The wizard is a terrible sight to behold.
But I've seen worse.
I've stood at the edge of jungle, staring into the inky black.
I've listened for the sound of the creature that stole orphans
from the streets in Saigon, a demon with a leopard's spots, but
possessing eyes more cruel than any natural born beast.
I've watched a sandstorm rise amid the still desert air, the
swirling wall of stone and grit writhing like a serpent as it
worked its way into the choppers' engines. Watched as the
motors died, sending my brothers-in-arms hurdling to the
desert floor, as the wind howled in triumph.
I've stood watch over the broken walls of a fallen fort, as the
shadows in the darkness shifted and prowled, the native things
of that foreign shore as unwelcoming as the soldiers we'd slain
taking it. I listened as the night took the others, one by one,
wondering all the while when the things would come for me.
So yes, the wizard is terrible.
But I've seen worse.
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That is some awesome prose/free-form poetry. Yours?
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Nice Poetry man.
I've got a personal theory that he had either heard of, hired or worked with either Monoc Securities or Kincaid in the past. And got a first time free consultation, like a lot of security businesses do.
I desperately picture 2 or 3 scene's between Kincaid and Marcone/ his people off screen. The first being simple exchange of badass nods.
First between SIgrun gurd and Kincaid.
"Sigrun" Kincaid smirks with a twinkle in his eye's "Been awhile how have you been."
Sigrun returns the smile. "Since the hotel room in Venice, or the battlefield in the Congo?"
"Either, or. Whichever you preferred"
Sigrun grins and goes to return the banter. Hendricks grunts and growls uncomfortably. Sigrun settle for a wink. Kincaid winks back.
"Kincaid" Marcone Nods. "Don Marcone" Kincaid nods back.
The next scene Marcone tries to hire Kincaid for a job as he's not sure Monoc Securities are prepared to do it.
"Kincaid I wish to hire you again"
"Contracts not up with Ivy, Don Marcone"
"It's not immediate, but sometime in the future, within the next couple of years or so"
"What's the job"
"Dresden."
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Griffyn, you really need to publish your stuff. That kinda writing I would buy.
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That is some awesome prose/free-form poetry. Yours?
Nice Poetry man.
Griffyn, you really need to publish your stuff. That kinda writing I would buy.
Thanks. Just something I came up with, imagining a young Marcone. I wish I had the time these days for writing, because I like the idea of a Marcone origin story.
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I think the Three-Eye Drug (Third Eye? I can never remember) that started flooding the streets baffled Marcone's street level guys, and they had to start looking into it. They realized that there was something fundamentally different about it that made it greater than the sum of its parts, and Marcone had some of his guys (like Spike) start looking into magic in general.
It could also have been part of his recon into SI that he saw through some of their more creative reports.
Then, after Fool Moon, he realized that he was being targeting by supernatural elements that he couldn't do a damn thing about with guys with guns, so he reached out to Monoc Securities and started getting real lessons.
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I think the Three-Eye Drug (Third Eye? I can never remember) that started flooding the streets baffled Marcone's street level guys, and they had to start looking into it. They realized that there was something fundamentally different about it that made it greater than the sum of its parts, and Marcone had some of his guys (like Spike) start looking into magic in general.
It could also have been part of his recon into SI that he saw through some of their more creative reports.
Then, after Fool Moon, he realized that he was being targeting by supernatural elements that he couldn't do a damn thing about with guys with guns, so he reached out to Monoc Securities and started getting real lessons.
I don't know. He was very cool headed about the soulgaze. And Harry's soulgaze apparently creeps everyone out. So Marcone not only wasn't surprised that it could happen, but wasn't alarmed by the chaos he likely saw.
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I don't know. He was very cool headed about the soulgaze. And Harry's soulgaze apparently creeps everyone out. So Marcone not only wasn't surprised that it could happen, but wasn't alarmed by the chaos he likely saw.
I thought Three-Eye was on the streets for months before Storm Front, but I could be wrong.
Monica Sells say Victor started using magic when her son, Billy, was around four. Billy is described as a year or two younger than his sister, who is "on the gawky end of preadolescence," around 11 or twelve. So Billy is about nine in Storm Front, which means Victor started looking into magic about five years previous. I'd estimate it took him a couple of years to develop Three-Eye, and maybe worked on it for about a year or two more before he found the Beckitts and ramped up production.
I'd say about six months since the cops started noticing Three-Eye, maybe a year since it was sold on the street at a significant level. Plenty of time to do adequate research, in my opinion.
Still, it's fun to think about Marcone facing down a nest of vampires or something as a lad.
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I think Bony Tony coming to him and giving him the "pick of the litter" from Sirothrax's hord was his first encounter with the Supernatural world.
We know that Bony Tony did that. We just don't know when.
We know that Marcone recognized that the killing of Jenny Stanton and Tommy Tomm as being supernatural, by Marcone wanting to pick up Harry and hire him to do nothing.
We know that Marcone recognizes that the Three-eye is made through magical means, he just can't find the guy because the guy (Victor Sells/Shadowman) terrifies his distributors.
Didn't Marcone point Harry at Harley MacFinn? If he did, then he probably knew Harley's secret.
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I think Bony Tony coming to him and giving him the "pick of the litter" from Sirothrax's hord was his first encounter with the Supernatural world.
We know that Bony Tony did that. We just don't know when.
We know that Marcone recognized that the killing of Jenny Stanton and Tommy Tomm as being supernatural, by Marcone wanting to pick up Harry and hire him to do nothing.
We know that Marcone recognizes that the Three-eye is made through magical means, he just can't find the guy because the guy (Victor Sells/Shadowman) terrifies his distributors.
Didn't Marcone point Harry at Harley MacFinn? If he did, then he probably knew Harley's secret.
1) Do we know for sure that the storage locker belonged to Siriothrax?
2) Only a few weeks after Tony put the stuff on sale, Grevane showed up. So you're suggesting that Tony got the cache years earlier, and gave Marcone a couple paintings, and then sat on the rest? And that Marcone, just looking at the rest, realized the Supernatural was real? Because the text says Marcone told Tony about the supernatural after Grevane reached out to him.
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My wild thought is that Marcone is related to or a known associate of a wizard. Hence the name change. And the lack of obvious surprise by the soulgaze. A wilder thought would be that he has worked with DuMorne. A more wilder thought would be that he is in some way related to Justin.
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My wild thought is that Marcone is related to or a known associate of a wizard. Hence the name change. And the lack of obvious surprise by the soulgaze. A wilder thought would be that he has worked with DuMorne. A more wilder thought would be that he is in some way related to Justin.
That's all too "small world" for me. I've got an idea that Marcone took the name of a dead man to get out of trouble. Specifically, that he was a street rat in 60's Chicago that joined the military as John Marcone to get out of town.
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I think Bony Tony coming to him and giving him the "pick of the litter" from Sirothrax's hord was his first encounter with the Supernatural world.
I think that if Marcone had anything from Siro's Hord, he wouldn't be magically winning at life and somehow becoming an equal peer with Mab and Hades overnight.
Remember there was a WoJ on Siro and how nobody wants to touch his stash because it has a Fuck-Mothering Dragons death-curse attached to it.
As for Marcone's history with the Supernatural, I don't think there was much of one. I think that Bianca and The Shadowman started a turf-war with him, and so he started digging.
And he found that yes, the supernatural is apparently a thing (As Anna Valmont said, they don't try all that hard to hide it) and that he has no real way to properly counter it. Which led him to Harry (Shady Ex-Con Wizard with a desperate need for cash) and later Monoc (Mercenary Security Firm) to provide expert help to both Counter potential threats and Expand his Empire into this new, untapped source of Wealth and Influence.
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That's all too "small world" for me. I've got an idea that Marcone took the name of a dead man to get out of trouble. Specifically, that he was a street rat in 60's Chicago that joined the military as John Marcone to get out of town.
I agree on small world. But he has to have run into a wizard somewhere.
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I agree on small world. But he has to have run into a wizard somewhere.
Why? And Where?
Have you run into one? Do you know?
Remember that most people don't want to recognize anything supernatural.
1) Do we know for sure that the storage locker belonged to Siriothrax?
2) Only a few weeks after Tony put the stuff on sale, Grevane showed up. So you're suggesting that Tony got the cache years earlier, and gave Marcone a couple paintings, and then sat on the rest? And that Marcone, just looking at the rest, realized the Supernatural was real? Because the text says Marcone told Tony about the supernatural after Grevane reached out to him.
No, we don't KNOW that it was part of Siriothrax's hoard, but don't know where else it could have come from.
As to how long he had it, I got the impression that he was selling it off slowly and building up his retirement fund, so yeah, he could have had it for years before he came across the Word of Kemmler and put it up for sale.
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Marcone seemed prepared or not bothered by the soulgaze. Many textual mentions of norms experiencing soulgazes often involve hysteria or unconsciousness. I would say knowledge of gazes outside the supernatural community is limited, to a very few norms and fringe magic-users. Does anyone else think Marcone might have been involved with a soulgaze prior to SF?
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That's all too "small world" for me. I've got an idea that Marcone took the name of a dead man to get out of trouble. Specifically, that he was a street rat in 60's Chicago that joined the military as John Marcone to get out of town.
How old are these characters supposed to be, anyway? Joining the military in the ‘60s would put him in his 60s as well.
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How old are these characters supposed to be, anyway? Joining the military in the ‘60s would put him in his 60s as well.
My timeline puts him at 59 for PT. He could conceivably be as young as 57 if he stole the "Marcone" identity and used it to join the military early.
Others think he's younger than that. But there was a mention somewhere that Marcone might have been in Vietnam, and the only way that works with him not collecting Social Security is if he was posted in Saigon for a few years after the war, up until the evacuation.
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I think that if Marcone had anything from Siro's Hord, he wouldn't be magically winning at life and somehow becoming an equal peer with Mab and Hades overnight.
Remember there was a WoJ on Siro and how nobody wants to touch his stash because it has a Fuck-Mothering Dragons death-curse attached to it.
To play Devil's Advocate, how did it work out for Bony Tony? It could very well be that the death curse affects whoever takes it from his stash, and that contact with the goods after it's stolen wouldn't transfer the curse; a loaded musket, once fired, requires reloading. Though it could just as easily be like uranium.
That aside, I've never thought of it coming from a dragon's hoard in the first place. It's a fun idea, and could very well lead up to the inevitable Dragon Book Jim mentioned in a handful of Words of Jim (Word of Jims?) but it seems a bit unlikely that Tony would have known about it and accessed it. But, putting on my paranoia hat, this could have been the work of the Circle trying to stir up trouble and tossing some problems Marcone's way to limit his influence in Chicago.
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Does anyone else think that might not have been Marcone's first soulgaze?
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"My timeline puts him at 59 for PT. He could conceivably be as young as 57 if he stole the "Marcone" identity and used it to join the military early."
I am 57 and was born in 1960. At 59, he would have been born in 1958. That means he would have been 17 at the time that the US left Vietnam (1975). Not impossible, but I don't know how many brand new troops we put in the last year or so. Most Vietnam Vets are early to mid-60s at this point.
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"My timeline puts him at 59 for PT. He could conceivably be as young as 57 if he stole the "Marcone" identity and used it to join the military early."
I am 57 and was born in 1960. At 59, he would have been born in 1958. That means he would have been 17 at the time that the US left Vietnam (1975). Not impossible, but I don't know how many brand new troops we put in the last year or so. Most Vietnam Vets are early to mid-60s at this point.
If you check my timeline a few pages back, you'll see I had him in Saigon in '74-75, after the war but up until the full withdrawal in Operation Frequent Wind in April. If he signed up early, he could have been there longer.
Edit: I went and found it because it was in the other Marcone age thread.
My theoretical timeline for Marcone, with ages for him, Helen, and Amanda.
2014 SG - (JM-59)(HB-57)(AB-34)
2003 DM - (JM-48)(HB-46)(AB-23)
2000 SF - (JM-45)(HB-43)(AB-20)
1990 - (JM-35)(HB-33)(AB-10) Amanda is shot.
1984 - (JM-29) End of third tour; returns to Chicago
1983 - (JM-28) Marine helo-pilot for Grenada Invasion (Operation Urgent Fury)
1980 - (JM-25)(HB-23)(AB-00) End of second tour
1980 - (JM-25) Marine helo-pilot for failed Tehran rescue (Operation Eagle Claw)
1976 - (JM-21) End of first tour
1975 - (JM-20) Marine helo-pilot for Saigon Evac (Operation Frequent Wind)
1975 - (JM-45) Marine helo-pilot for Cambodia Evac (Operation Eagle Pull)
1973 - (JM-18) Joins Marines, Helicopter pilot/crew; stationed in Saigon as post-war support.
1955 - (JM-00)
Notes:
- During his time in Saigon, Marcone develops a strong dislike of heroin and other drugs that other soldiers use to cope with deployment, seeing friends lose themselves to them.
- At the same time, he develops empathy towards orphans and other children facing hardships after the war.
- He witnesses corruption within the military, learning how to manipulate officials and officers with prostitution, blackmail, and bribery.
- After Saigon, he remains in the service, making contacts and running his own little organization where he's stationed.
- He remains I'm the military after Saigon and Tehran, feeling a sense of failure. He remains enlisted until the successful Grenada mission gives him a sense of accomplishment.
- After three tours, he heads to Chicago, where he hopes to use what he learned to make a name for himself. He lasts about 6 years before he becomes a threat to the families.
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I feel like you guys are missing the easier ways Marcone would have found out.
First off while full power wizards are extremely rare low level practitioners are relativity common. Many of which may enjoy drugs/prostitutes/gambling and may try to trade knowledge to pay off debts, some may have been in the mob themselves. Like previous generations versions of that knife fighter cult leader from ghost story
Second Marcone has extensive contacts in the Chicago PD, a division of which has known all about the supernatural for decades and it seems likely that at some point someone gave him all of their files.
Third the Mob has been a major power in Chicago for over 100 years and would likely have been operating in bad neighborhoods at night the whole time. As the current head of that organization its even plausible that he inherited secret records of all the weird stuff they have seen when he took the top spot.
As someone pointed out the supernatural isn't really kept all that secret its more normal people try very hard not to believe in it, mainly due to fear
The reason Marcone knows is because he has the type of mental strength to judge the gathered information on its own merits. it has been stated in the books that Marcone completely ignores fear, its part of why he's so dangerous.
Thats also why the soul gaze didn't scare him
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You make some pretty good points. Thank you.
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Remember there was a WoJ on Siro and how nobody wants to touch his stash because it has a Fuck-Mothering Dragons death-curse attached to it.
Personally I just assume that everybody has agreed to leave the stash out in the sun until the "don't touch my shit" curse wears off, then it's time to start looting.