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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: LordDresden2 on June 16, 2017, 03:41:44 AM

Title: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: LordDresden2 on June 16, 2017, 03:41:44 AM
We sometimes see characters speculate about what nastiness might be found in the point in Faerie that corresponds to a given point on Earth.  For ex, Nicodemus warned Harry that he really wouldn't like what lay on the other side from Demonreach.  Usually there is some correspondence, as much symbolic as practice, for ex:  the royal hall of the Erlking lines up with a Bass Pro shop, IIRC.

But we don't see much speculation about the inverse.  For ex, what on Earth matches up to Arctic Tor?

Where would you find yourself if you opened a Gate from the Mothers' Cottage in Faerie to Earth?  (Not that I recommend performing the experiment.)

Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Griffyn612 on June 16, 2017, 04:17:31 AM
For ex, what on Earth matches up to Arctic Tor?
The South Pole?

Quote
Where would you find yourself if you opened a Gate from the Mothers' Cottage in Faerie to Earth?  (Not that I recommend performing the experiment.)
Well, given their immense power, their balance between abundant life and inescapable death, and their distance from humanity?

Lake Karachay.
(http://modernnotion.com/wp-content/uploads/Lake-Karachay-.jpg)
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: ClintACK on June 16, 2017, 04:54:24 AM
The NeverNever is much bigger than the Earth.

Although you can open a Way from anywhere on the Earth and get to somewhere in the NeverNever, I'm not sure the converse is true.

Example: I doubt that there's anywhere on the Earth from which you could open up a simple Way and find yourself inside the walls of Arctis Tor -- it wouldn't be much of a fortress if you could.

Same with places like the Outer Gates, the Mothers's Cottage, and any number of religious holies-of-holies.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Avernite on June 16, 2017, 05:20:30 AM
On the other hand, outside Arctis Tor might work.

I'm thinking things like the royal palace in Stockholm, or the Kremlin, as in palaces in cold places. Presumably only palaces that are actually in use would count, though, pure touristy ones would probably redirect to sleeping beauty style castles instead.


As for the Mother's cottage, I think some parts of it could resonate more surprisingly; it's also a sort-of hidden in plain sight place with massive power over life and death, so something like a nuclear command center that few people know about could work (i.e. not NORAD, it's too well known).
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Quantus on June 16, 2017, 12:55:39 PM
The Mother cottage is going to connect to a whole lot of different places, likely all very powerful; at least one of them appears to connect to The Winter Knight's grave.  Consider that the Erlking's Court connected to both a Bass Pro Shop and also the FBI regional HQ.  I would not expect Mother Winter's shadowy corner to connect to the same place as Mother Summer's cupboard or garden or Shelf of Pestilence. 


OR

It's very likely that one cannot open a Way to the Mother's Cottage at all, just like you cannot inside Edinburough, and likely things are restricted within places like Arctis Tor.  If Mab can lock down Ways in ALL of Fairy in CD, and make custom Ways, the Mothers have this capability as well.  At their level of Power, and in their own demense, they might well be able to /dictate/ where the Ways would go, if anywhere. 
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Mira on June 16, 2017, 03:06:21 PM


I'm thinking it is either in another dimension or a remote part of Nevernever.  I'd have to go back and reread how Harry and Mother Summer got to the Outer Gates, but it seemed like it was just a bit of a hike... But that could be deceiving...
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Quantus on June 16, 2017, 06:02:05 PM

I'm thinking it is either in another dimension or a remote part of Nevernever.  I'd have to go back and reread how Harry and Mother Summer got to the Outer Gates, but it seemed like it was just a bit of a hike... But that could be deceiving...
They took a walk to a particular stone, then I think she used it to teleport them?
Quote
Mother Summer smiled, took my arm again, and stretched out one foot. She used it to brush a layer of dirt and fallen leaves from the pitted surface of a flat stone, like a paving stone, maybe three feet square. She tapped it three times with her foot, whispered a word, and drew me along with her as she stepped onto it.

No drama ensued. The landscape simply changed, as swiftly and drastically as when you turn on a light while in a darkened room. One second we stood in an autumnal megaforest. The next . . .

I’ve seen movies and newsreels about World War I.


In SK Harry said he got the sensation that it was the Heart of Faery:  "And I had a gut feeling that I was running through the heart of Faerie."



Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Mira on June 16, 2017, 08:11:57 PM
Quote
In SK Harry said he got the sensation that it was the Heart of Faery:  "And I had a gut feeling that I was running through the heart of Faerie."

  New to him at that point, but a good clue that the cottage is in the middle of the Nevernever..
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: kazimmoinuddin on June 17, 2017, 02:14:54 AM
I wonder if it is the heart of faerie, would a sacrifice made here, it would be shared equally amongst the courts. This would be useful way o get a partnership working.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Zohak on June 17, 2017, 04:56:12 AM
Mother Summer could have also been giving directions for the
future by pointing out the stone and the talk at the gates
from her and the gatekeeper.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Mira on June 17, 2017, 03:57:30 PM
Mother Summer could have also been giving directions for the
future by pointing out the stone and the talk at the gates
from her and the gatekeeper.

   As I said in an earlier post, looks can be deceiving..  Remember travel in the Nevernever isn't by roads as we know them, but Ways.  Margaret knew many or most of them, I'd wager that Rashid does also, in fact he told Harry that he and Margaret used to have dinner together once in a while to talk about that very thing, he also was surprised that a wizard as young as Harry would make it to the Gates.. He said that even with Mother Summer acting as Harry's guide..  So from that I conclude that nothing is straight forward in the Nevernever, least of all the locations of important landmarks.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: kazimmoinuddin on June 17, 2017, 11:49:40 PM
The lands of faerie are the closest region of the never never, closest to the material world. Many of the most known, used or safest ways are through the lands of faerie. I am betting that due to Maggie knowledge of the never never, and contacts amongst, she knew every way in the lands of faerie. That Alone would be valuable.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: groinkick on June 18, 2017, 06:29:26 PM
Hmmm  I would think the Mothers cottage would be on the equator somewhere.  It is Summer, and Winter sharing the same space so that seems logical to me.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: LordDresden2 on June 18, 2017, 06:48:16 PM
Hmmm  I would think the Mothers cottage would be on the equator somewhere.  It is Summer, and Winter sharing the same space so that seems logical to me.

Interesting thought, I hadn't considered that.  Come to think of it, I'll bet the equator has interesting magical properties in the Dresdenverse for precisely that reason, the 'balance of forces'.  The poles might as well, for opposite reasons.  I would not be a bit surprised to learn that some magic is more potent cast at the equator, other magic more potent at the poles than elsewhere.  There might even be spells and rituals that only work at the equator or poles.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Mira on June 18, 2017, 06:56:23 PM
Hmmm  I would think the Mothers cottage would be on the equator somewhere.  It is Summer, and Winter sharing the same space so that seems logical to me.

 Except on the Equator there is only the rainy and the dry season, not really what one thinks of when one thinks of Winter and Summer.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: LordDresden2 on June 18, 2017, 07:00:13 PM
Except on the Equator there is only the rainy and the dry season, not really what one thinks of when one thinks of Winter and Summer.

But still cyclical seasons that match up with winter and summer.  The Poles never get really warm, either, but they have seasons, 'day' and 'night', which match up.  (They do get somewhat warmer in the day season, of course.)  It's still the same seasonal cycles, taking different shapes in different places.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Griffyn612 on June 18, 2017, 07:09:13 PM
Hmmm  I would think the Mothers cottage would be on the equator somewhere.  It is Summer, and Winter sharing the same space so that seems logical to me.
Uh, the equator is about as far from "winter" as you can get.  It's the opposite of the poles.  Since I can't see Mother Summer setting up shop at one of the poles, I doubt Mother Winter would do the equivalent.

The 45th parallel in the North would be the midpoint between Summer and Winter, in that those locations would be more likely to experience both seasons equally.  It's been established in the books that the "seasons" are oriented towards the Northern hemisphere, likely due to the greater population.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: groinkick on June 18, 2017, 07:21:10 PM
Uh, the equator is about as far from "winter" as you can get.  It's the opposite of the poles.  Since I can't see Mother Summer setting up shop at one of the poles, I doubt Mother Winter would do the equivalent.

The 45th parallel in the North would be the midpoint between Summer and Winter, in that those locations would be more likely to experience both seasons equally.  It's been established in the books that the "seasons" are oriented towards the Northern hemisphere, likely due to the greater population.

Yeah I don't know why i didn't think of that.  I did not get much sleep last night is my only excuse lol.  I agree with your idea of the 45th parallel.

Just me or does that look like it could be close to Demon Reach?
(http://i.imgur.com/ApQjeKs.jpg)
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Griffyn612 on June 18, 2017, 07:54:37 PM
Yeah I don't know why i didn't think of that.  I did not get much sleep last night is my only excuse lol.  I agree with your idea of the 45th parallel.
If you're looking for a particular spot on the 45th, two of the more significant locations are the 45x90, marking the halfway points between the prime and 180 meridians.  One's in a field in Wisconsin, while the other is on an unpopulated mountain range in China.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: groinkick on June 18, 2017, 07:55:57 PM
Look at above picture^ what do you think about it being near Demon Reach
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Griffyn612 on June 18, 2017, 07:58:08 PM
Look at above picture^ what do you think about it being near Demon Reach
It runs through the north end of Lake Michigan, just off of South Manitou island.  Demonreach is located in the southern end of the lake, based on the speed at which Harry can reach it. 
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: groinkick on June 18, 2017, 08:07:08 PM
It runs through the north end of Lake Michigan, just off of South Manitou island.  Demonreach is located in the southern end of the lake, based on the speed at which Harry can reach it.

Yeah but they are pretty close...  Can't be ignored that there may be a connection.  I'm not saying you could get to the cottage from DR..  But there may still be a connection.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Griffyn612 on June 18, 2017, 09:47:34 PM
Yeah but they are pretty close...  Can't be ignored that there may be a connection.  I'm not saying you could get to the cottage from DR..  But there may still be a connection.
It's not what I imagine, but it's possible.

Personally, I think that the real world places that correspond with the cottage would be hard to get to.  Harder than renting a boat, navigating a reef, and resisting an urge to leave.

That's why I suggested Lake Karachay.  Just being there is hard to survive, even with the lake filled in with concrete.  The Bikini atoll is another possibility, which is both deadly and teeming with life. 

Or their links might be only naturally occurring.  There are probably places that are abundant with nature, like Madidi National Park, which are suited to MS.  And there are places that are deadly to everything, like Lake Nateon, which are suited to MW.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: groinkick on June 19, 2017, 04:24:47 AM
It's not what I imagine, but it's possible.

Personally, I think that the real world places that correspond with the cottage would be hard to get to.  Harder than renting a boat, navigating a reef, and resisting an urge to leave.

That's why I suggested Lake Karachay.  Just being there is hard to survive, even with the lake filled in with concrete.  The Bikini atoll is another possibility, which is both deadly and teeming with life. 

Or their links might be only naturally occurring.  There are probably places that are abundant with nature, like Madidi National Park, which are suited to MS.  And there are places that are deadly to everything, like Lake Nateon, which are suited to MW.

Nevernever is weird.  You wouldn't think you could get to Hades vault just because he happened to own a vault in Marcone's bank. 

Why would it need to be dangerous to reach the Mothers?  I mean their power is so vast I doubt anyone would pose a threat.  I wouldn't be surprised if gaining access to the Mothers cottage is surprisingly easy...  It's just going there if you aren't wanted means death for the trespasser.  The Winter Lady power is formidable, but Mab could take on the entire White Council on her own, and just about anyone on Earth, and the Mothers are supposed to be a level of magnitude above Mab as she is above the Lady..  So if the entire White Council was working with the Red Court, and Drakul...  They would get destroyed..  And that's just one of the Mothers, not both.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Griffyn612 on June 19, 2017, 04:34:13 AM
Nevernever is weird.  You wouldn't think you could get to Hades vault just because he happened to own a vault in Marcone's bank. 

Why would it need to be dangerous to reach the Mothers?  I mean their power is so vast I doubt anyone would pose a threat.  I wouldn't be surprised if gaining access to the Mothers cottage is surprisingly easy...  It's just going there if you aren't wanted means death for the trespasser.  The Winter Lady power is formidable, but Mab could take on the entire White Council on her own, and just about anyone on Earth, and the Mothers are supposed to be a level of magnitude above Mab as she is above the Lady..  So if the entire White Council was working with the Red Court, and Drakul...  They would get destroyed..  And that's just one of the Mothers, not both.
It's more that the world would have to reflect the connection to the Mothers.  We're talking about two of the most powerful beings tied to Earth. Them being distant doesn't make too much sense, but them being close would reflect on reality.

But I also think there's a certain level of precaution that the Mothers must take as well.  If it's easy to get to them, then it's easy to attack them.  And as powerful as they are, there must be a consequence for them taking up arms.  They're the nukes of the Sidhe; you don't set them off without consequence.

So, it'd be better for everyone if it's just a little harder to get to them. 
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: groinkick on June 19, 2017, 05:01:09 AM
It's more that the world would have to reflect the connection to the Mothers.  We're talking about two of the most powerful beings tied to Earth. Them being distant doesn't make too much sense, but them being close would reflect on reality.

But I also think there's a certain level of precaution that the Mothers must take as well.  If it's easy to get to them, then it's easy to attack them.  And as powerful as they are, there must be a consequence for them taking up arms.  They're the nukes of the Sidhe; you don't set them off without consequence.

So, it'd be better for everyone if it's just a little harder to get to them.

Well Mab can't just poof into my house and hurt me but if I slapped (or tried) to slap her she could unleash. 

Remember Jim describing if people tried to attack Mab?  They would be riding towards her and be like "Wasn't there 5 of us?".  The Mothers don't need to nuke.  It's like a person being attacked by a snail...  It could hit you with everything it had, do nothing, and you just step on it. 

They might not even need to respond to your attack.  I could see someone attacking Mother Winter and then just turning to ash, and her looking around as if she felt a fly land on her shoulder.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Quantus on June 19, 2017, 01:13:11 PM
It's been established in the books that the "seasons" are oriented towards the Northern hemisphere, likely due to the greater population.
Im pretty sure that is not the case.  The Fae Courts have less absolute Power in the southern hemisphere since there roots are in the North, but the Power is still there, and the Table. 

Quote
2011 Bitten by Books Q&A
Oh and changing over of the stone table from winter-summer/summer-winter , well there are two hemispheres, are there two tables?
One table, but it goes where it is called.
Quote
2015 AMA
I was talking with a friend about the faerie courts, and since we live in Australia, we were both wondering what the explanation is for the seasons being reversed in the southern hemisphere. Does Titania take a vacation down south for Christmas? Or is there a seperate pair of courts for the south?
Oh, no, they'll just rotate interests. Mab has more power in the southern winter, Titania in the southern summer. Though, as fundamentally northern-hemisphere, basically Western European beings, they don't have the kind of absolute reign there that they enjoy in other parts of the world, and their relationships there consist more of strong alliances and consensus influence among a much larger population of Wyld fae.


Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Griffyn612 on June 19, 2017, 03:24:02 PM
Im pretty sure that is not the case.  The Fae Courts have less absolute Power in the southern hemisphere since there roots are in the North, but the Power is still there, and the Table.
I agree that the table is wherever it needs to be.  But as to the rest, their association with the southern seasons has to come from somewhere.  I think this is where the "worship" of the seasons comes into play.  And with only 10% of the world's population living below the equator, it makes sense that there's less power available to them originating from that hemisphere.

Either way, the balance point between the seasons would make more sense as the northern 45 parallel.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Quantus on June 19, 2017, 05:41:37 PM
I agree that the table is wherever it needs to be.  But as to the rest, their association with the southern seasons has to come from somewhere.  I think this is where the "worship" of the seasons comes into play.  And with only 10% of the world's population living below the equator, it makes sense that there's less power available to them originating from that hemisphere.

Either way, the balance point between the seasons would make more sense as the northern 45 parallel.
huh?
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Griffyn612 on June 19, 2017, 06:07:34 PM
huh?
Where'd I lose you?
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Quantus on June 19, 2017, 06:18:57 PM
Where'd I lose you?
Right after the fist sentence?  It sounded like you were saying that you agree with the first WOJ but are rejecting the second, but Im not following your reasons?
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Griffyn612 on June 19, 2017, 11:07:36 PM
Right after the fist sentence?  It sounded like you were saying that you agree with the first WOJ but are rejecting the second, but Im not following your reasons?
I'm conceding both, but the second is under protest.  To have access to the southern seasons at all, they'd seem to require a link to that aspect that isn't explained by his statement.  Their authority is, but their claim to the seasons isn't.

Which is where i believe the link between human belief in the seasons comes into play.  But even then, they don't have the population to offer the same level of power supplied by the northern hemisphere.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Quantus on June 20, 2017, 01:11:44 PM
I'm conceding both, but the second is under protest.  To have access to the southern seasons at all, they'd seem to require a link to that aspect that isn't explained by his statement.  Their authority is, but their claim to the seasons isn't.
OK, I think I see where I got lost. I was operating under the (unproven) assumption that the connection to the Seasons was something that came to the Fae Courts along with the Guardianship of the Gates (based on the Fact that the Dragons used to manage that aspect of Nature, and the theory that they are previous Guardians).  Under that framework, it would have been a Single, Global connection that is shared by the two courts, and so there would not be a Second connection necessary (or possible) for the Southern half of the world.  I interpret the 2nd WOJ to be indicating that they have to work harder politically because, at the end of the day, they are Outsiders Foreigners that have been put in charge (like an English Lord being installed in medieval Scotland) and the locals dont really like/appreciate it. 


Quote
Which is where i believe the link between human belief in the seasons comes into play.  But even then, they don't have the population to offer the same level of power supplied by the northern hemisphere.
I dont like this.  I think this line of logic leads down the path that in the Southern Hemisphere Nature Itself is weaker than the North because there are fewer Humans, and that doesnt feel right at all. 
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Griffyn612 on June 20, 2017, 07:46:23 PM
OK, I think I see where I got lost. I was operating under the (unproven) assumption that the connection to the Seasons was something that came to the Fae Courts along with the Guardianship of the Gates (based on the Fact that the Dragons used to manage that aspect of Nature, and the theory that they are previous Guardians).  Under that framework, it would have been a Single, Global connection that is shared by the two courts, and so there would not be a Second connection necessary (or possible) for the Southern half of the world.  I interpret the 2nd WOJ to be indicating that they have to work harder politically because, at the end of the day, they are Outsiders Foreigners that have been put in charge (like an English Lord being installed in medieval Scotland) and the locals dont really like/appreciate it.
See, my (unproven) theory is that their association with the seasons is artificially constructed by spells laid into the Table, channeling human belief in the seasons as "faith" power that is then provided equally to the Courts.

I'm not sure that I buy that the Dragons were involved with the Gates, or that they were tied to the seasons.  Were there some WoJ's that suggested as much?

Quote
I dont like this.  I think this line of logic leads down the path that in the Southern Hemisphere Nature Itself is weaker than the North because there are fewer Humans, and that doesnt feel right at all.
That's where the difference in our theories becomes significant.  You're theory is based on the idea that there's an unchanging and equal pool of Seasonal Aspect Power accessible to the Courts from either hemisphere. 

What I'm suggesting is that each human unconsciously gives 1 joul of their free will (out of, let's say, 1 kilojoule available to each) to the Aspect of Seasons. 

Instead of ancient humans saying, "Odin controls the sky! If thunder rolls and lighting strikes, Odin must be angry!", and giving a portion of their free will to deities that control their environment, modern humans say, "We can't vacation during that time of year, it's too hot/cold," and give a sliver of their free will to the Courts.

Since there are 7.5 billion humans, and 6.6 billion live in the Northern hemisphere, the North is providing 6.6 megajoules of free will.  By comparison, the Southern hemisphere has 900 million humans, so they only provide 0.9 megajoules. 

That disparate level of "worship" establishes the Northern hemisphere as the "dominant" hemisphere when establishing the active season between the Courts.  But it also allows for each Court to still have their season active somewhere, which allows them to summon the Table and pour power into their side.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Quantus on June 20, 2017, 08:03:31 PM
See, my (unproven) theory is that their association with the seasons is artificially constructed by spells laid into the Table, channeling human belief in the seasons as "faith" power that is then provided equally to the Courts.

I'm not sure that I buy that the Dragons were involved with the Gates, or that they were tied to the seasons.  Were there some WoJ's that suggested as much?
Quote
On the latter there is, though Ive lost the link and have spent a couple months failing to find it again.  The Question was a straightforward "what sort of things were the Dragons in charge of" (since we were previously told they were cosmic beings in charge of parts of the natural order).  He rattled off a few examples offhand, and I recall being suprised that ones of them was "the orderly turning of the seasons" (I /think/ I have the phrasing correct?). 

Since the seasons seem obviously a Fae responsibility, I took that as further evidence (though certainly not proof) for the theory that the Dragons were a former Guardian. 

That's where the difference in our theories becomes significant.  You're theory is based on the idea that there's an unchanging and equal pool of Seasonal Aspect Power accessible to the Courts from either hemisphere. 

What I'm suggesting is that each human unconsciously gives 1 joul of their free will (out of, let's say, 1 kilojoule available to each) to the Aspect of Seasons. 

Instead of ancient humans saying, "Odin controls the sky! If thunder rolls and lighting strikes, Odin must be angry!", and giving a portion of their free will to deities that control their environment, modern humans say, "We can't vacation during that time of year, it's too hot/cold," and give a sliver of their free will to the Courts.

Since there are 7.5 billion humans, and 6.6 billion live in the Northern hemisphere, the North is providing 6.6 megajoules of free will.  By comparison, the Southern hemisphere has 900 million humans, so they only provide 0.9 megajoules. 

That disparate level of "worship" establishes the Northern hemisphere as the "dominant" hemisphere when establishing the active season between the Courts.  But it also allows for each Court to still have their season active somewhere, which allows them to summon the Table and pour power into their side.
Agreed, that's were we diverge.  Im still not on board with the whole notion that all the deities are fueled so directly by their Believer-counts, or that Nature itself would be less powerful in the Southern Hemisphere simply because there are fewer Humans to be confused by it. 

To the particulars:

I certainly dont think that the Power of the courts are "unchanging", but I do think that at the Global level Summer and Winter need to constantly balance each other (within the variance that their politics emit) because that's the only way a giant spinning /anything/ can be balanced; physics is skewing my understanding of this though wich could be a mistake. 

I will agree that I think each side has a Pool of Power (which Im guessing is called the Wellspring but I could be wrong) that is independent of geography, or else it would mean that the Gate Forces are significantly under-powered for half the year.  Which is crazy-talk :p

I generally agree with your characterization of how worship changed with the popular/scientific understanding of Nature, but the thing I really dont get behind is the assumed Schism of the hemispheres or the idea that the Northern Hemisphere is fundamentally more Important in a metaphysical sense than the Southern simply because it has more humans. 
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: groinkick on June 20, 2017, 08:05:53 PM
Well the Mothers are so tied to the Earth's weather it could be that they are everywhere, and nowhere at the same time.  That their cottage can only be accessed if they allow it, and it can be done from anywhere.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Griffyn612 on June 20, 2017, 08:43:48 PM
Agreed, that's were we diverge.  Im still not on board <snip> that Nature itself would be less powerful in the Southern Hemisphere simply because there are fewer Humans to be confused by it.
...
I certainly dont think that the Power of the courts are "unchanging", but I do think that at the Global level Summer and Winter need to constantly balance each other (within the variance that their politics emit) because that's the only way a giant spinning /anything/ can be balanced; physics is skewing my understanding of this though wich could be a mistake. 
...
I will agree that I think each side has a Pool of Power (which Im guessing is called the Wellspring but I could be wrong) that is independent of geography, or else it would mean that the Gate Forces are significantly under-powered for half the year.  Which is crazy-talk :p
...
I generally agree with your characterization of how worship changed with the popular/scientific understanding of Nature, but the thing I really dont get behind is the assumed Schism of the hemispheres or the idea that the Northern Hemisphere is fundamentally more Important in a metaphysical sense than the Southern simply because it has more humans.
Regardless of the source (all-nature-aspect or gifted-free-will), the power of the Courts is entirely dependent on the Northern hemisphere.

In Summer Knight, it's flat-out said that Summer is at its strongest on the Summer Solstice (tomorrow!), and gradually weakens until the Winter Solstice.  When it comes to the Guardians of the Gates, their power revolves around the Northern hemisphere.

Now, I see a few arguments as to why that's the case. 

1) The power of the Aspect of the Seasons is stronger in the North than the South (neither of us think this makes sense)
2) The dominant Court is based on the origin hemisphere of the Sidhe (this makes no sense to me)
3) It's determined by human perception of the season, which collectively is dominant in the Northern hemisphere.(this makes sense to me)

The North being dominant to the South doesn't seem to be debatable.  Only the source of the power shift seems up for interpretation.

Quote
<snip> Im still not on board with the whole notion that all the deities are fueled so directly by their Believer-counts
I'm fine with deities having multiple sources of power, but I think that human recognition of deities and their purviews is a big factor.  But that's a debate for a different thread.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Quantus on June 21, 2017, 01:22:22 PM
Regardless of the source (all-nature-aspect or gifted-free-will), the power of the Courts is entirely dependent on the Northern hemisphere.

In Summer Knight, it's flat-out said that Summer is at its strongest on the Summer Solstice (tomorrow!), and gradually weakens until the Winter Solstice.  When it comes to the Guardians of the Gates, their power revolves around the Northern hemisphere.

Now, I see a few arguments as to why that's the case. 

1) The power of the Aspect of the Seasons is stronger in the North than the South (neither of us think this makes sense)
2) The dominant Court is based on the origin hemisphere of the Sidhe (this makes no sense to me)
3) It's determined by human perception of the season, which collectively is dominant in the Northern hemisphere.(this makes sense to me)

The North being dominant to the South doesn't seem to be debatable.  Only the source of the power shift seems up for interpretation.
I'm fine with deities having multiple sources of power, but I think that human recognition of deities and their purview is a big factor.  But that's a debate for a different thread.
Dude, that's all still based on a fundamental Assumption that the two hemispheres are not balanced in terms of Power, which to my mind falls somewhere between unlikely and impossible. 
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: nedserD C B yrraH on June 21, 2017, 06:20:40 PM
Why? There is, literally, twice as much land area in the northern hemisphere. That could easily lead to Fomor having more power in the southern hemisphere by simply reducing the power available to the Fae.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Quantus on June 21, 2017, 06:33:14 PM
Why? There is, literally, twice as much land area in the northern hemisphere. That could easily lead to Fomor having more power in the southern hemisphere by simply reducing the power available to the Fae.
I think we're drifting off into different topics, I was talking about the cumulative Power dichotomy of the Summer/Winter Whole (of which the Wyld are a part), not just the actual Courts that guard their respective territories.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Griffyn612 on June 21, 2017, 06:41:00 PM
Dude, that's all still based on a fundamental Assumption that the two hemispheres are not balanced in terms of Power, which to my mind falls somewhere between unlikely and impossible.
If the total power available from Aspect of Season is 100 gigajoules, then it would be divided equally between the Courts at all times.  50GJ for Summer, 50GJ for Winter, at any given time of the year.

Except, SK established that there is a dominant Court throughout the year, and that Court's dominance coincides with the season of the Northern hemisphere.

So, either there is an imbalance with the Aspect of Season power (which neither of us thinks is logical), or there's another source of power at play.

That's where human free will given to the Courts comes into it.  The fluctuation in Court power comes from human donations, which are influenced by the population's Seasonal Perception.  If we say each human gives 1 joule of free will, that gives the northern hemisphere 6.6GJ to donate, and the southern hemisphere gives 0.9GJ.

On the Northern Summer Solstice (today!), the Summer Court's power is AoS (50GJ) + Northern Seasonal Perception (6.6GJ) for a total of 56.6GJ.  At the same time, the Winter Court has AoS (50GJ) + Southern Seasonal Perception (0.9GJ) for a total of 50.9GJ.  At this peak, the SC is 5.7GJ stronger than Winter.

The day after the Northern Summer Solstice (tomorrow!), the Northern Seasonal Perception will begin to shift toward the inevitable Winter.  Each day will see 36.16 megajoules shift from the NSP to Winter, just as 4.9MJ shifts from the SSP to Summer.

At the Northern Autumnal Equinox, the NSP will be halfway to winter, even as the SSP is halfway to summer.  The Summer Court's power would be AoS (50GJ) + 1/2 NSP (3.3GJ) + 1/2 SSP (0.45GJ) for a total of 53.75GJ.  Winter would get half of each seasonal perception as well, putting the Courts at balance with 53.75GJ each.

Thus do we get a shifting balance of power between the Courts without either season being dominant.  If 90% of the human population lived in the Southern hemisphere, then it would be the "dominant" seasonal perception.  But since most of the population lives in the North, the Courts are forced to sway to their perceptions of the "dominant" season.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Quantus on June 21, 2017, 08:45:42 PM
If the total power available from Aspect of Season is 100 gigajoules, then it would be divided equally between the Courts at all times.  50GJ for Summer, 50GJ for Winter, at any given time of the year.

Except, SK established that there is a dominant Court throughout the year, and that Court's dominance coincides with the season of the Northern hemisphere.


So, either there is an imbalance with the Aspect of Season power (which neither of us thinks is logical), or there's another source of power at play.

This is the burried assumption that I think is taking you off the rails (from my POV).  SK only establishes that The Summer Court is more more powerful during it's Namesake season (peaking at Midsummer) in the Northern Hemisphere. So theoretically Titania's Power Ebs and Flows depending on both When AND Where she is standing.

The total Power of Summer (which is a wildly different thing that the Power of Titania and her Court) would remain constant because while it's at it's Maximin in the North it's at it's Minimim in the South, and vice versa for Winter; Thus Balance.  Neither Season (Total Season mind you, not just the Court) actually goes away, it just trades prominence.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Griffyn612 on June 21, 2017, 10:42:37 PM
This is the burried assumption that I think is taking you off the rails (from my POV).  SK only establishes that The Summer Court is more more powerful during it's Namesake season (peaking at Midsummer) in the Northern Hemisphere. So theoretically Titania's Power Ebs and Flows depending on both When AND Where she is standing.

The total Power of Summer (which is a wildly different thing that the Power of Titania and her Court) would remain constant because while it's at it's Maximin in the North it's at it's Minimim in the South, and vice versa for Winter; Thus Balance.  Neither Season (Total Season mind you, not just the Court) actually goes away, it just trades prominence.
I don't see any wiggle room, unless you think Aurora is lying.
Quote
   “The seasons are changing,” Aurora said. “In two days’ time,
Midsummer will be upon us. The height of Summer’s strength.”
  She said nothing more, letting me do the math. “You think
Winter has taken away your Knight,” I said. “And if you wait,
you’re only going to grow more and more weak, while Winter
gets stronger. Right?”
   “Correct. If we are to have any chance of victory, we must
strike while at the peak of our strength. It will be the only time
when our Court might be near equal to Winter’s strength.
Otherwise, the seasons will change, and at Midwinter Mab and
her creatures will come for us. And they will destroy us, and
with us the balances of the mortal world.”
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Quantus on June 22, 2017, 12:24:48 PM
I don't see any wiggle room, unless you think Aurora is lying.
While Im confident she could Lie, She wouldnt need to be, because once again we're confusing the COURT with the WHOLE.  She isnt lying anymore than Lea or Mab was Lying when they said that Lea was the Second most Powerful fae in all Winter next to Mab, even though Mother Winter Exists. Or anymore than when ever fae in history told somebody that the Forces of Summer and Winter were equal.  Context matters with them. 


If things operated as you say, then the Gates would be attacked HARD ever single Midsummer.  The Power each can play with in the Mortal realm, the part that is subject to Court Politics, ebs and flows, but I cannot buy that the total Sum of Power is as variable as you want to think. 
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Griffyn612 on June 22, 2017, 02:50:54 PM
While Im confident she could Lie, She wouldnt need to be, because once again we're confusing the COURT with the WHOLE.  She isnt lying anymore than Lea or Mab was Lying when they said that Lea was the Second most Powerful fae in all Winter next to Mab, even though Mother Winter Exists. Or anymore than when ever fae in history told somebody that the Forces of Summer and Winter were equal.  Context matters with them. 


If things operated as you say, then the Gates would be attacked HARD ever single Midsummer.  The Power each can play with in the Mortal realm, the part that is subject to Court Politics, ebs and flows, but I cannot buy that the total Sum of Power is as variable as you want to think.
Honestly, I'm not sure where to go with this.  The text clearly establishes that one Court grows stronger while the other weakens based on the active season in the northern hemisphere.

If their power was constant due to hemispheric equality, then the entire premise of Aurora's plan is false.  The entire plot of SK, with the Table passing from Court to Court, is pointless.

As for the Gates, those are manned by personnel, not by power.  What's more, there were goblins fighting (whom aren't members of Winter, even if they fight for them sometimes) and Summer Fae serving alongside Winter's troops.  It's a team effort, one that doesn't seem dependent on any fluctuating power levels between the Courts.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Rasins on June 22, 2017, 03:59:55 PM
You know, the 45th Parallel makes sense, but where ....

(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/afc8e8_f778ffa2f6e34bef95b973ff3b025d13.jpg_srz_902_207_85_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg_srz)

If you'll note ... Yellowstone is on the 45 Parallel.  It's kind of ... turbulent.  It would make sense to have a way there to the cottage.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Griffyn612 on June 22, 2017, 05:30:17 PM
You know, the 45th Parallel makes sense, but where ....

(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/afc8e8_f778ffa2f6e34bef95b973ff3b025d13.jpg_srz_902_207_85_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg_srz)

If you'll note ... Yellowstone is on the 45 Parallel.  It's kind of ... turbulent.  It would make sense to have a way there to the cottage.
That could be one.  Imagine having to open a way in between ejections from Old Faithful to come out in a small pond out behind the cottage.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Quantus on June 22, 2017, 05:50:25 PM
Honestly, I'm not sure where to go with this.  The text clearly establishes that one Court grows stronger while the other weakens based on the active season in the northern hemisphere.

If their power was constant due to hemispheric equality, then the entire premise of Aurora's plan is false.  The entire plot of SK, with the Table passing from Court to Court, is pointless.
Im a little stuck too.  It doesnt seem that complicated to me, but it still seems like you are confusing the difference between the Court and the larger Seasonal force.  I wish I had a whiteboard, I feel like a few venn diagrams could clear this up. 

Quote
As for the Gates, those are manned by personnel, not by power. What's more, there were goblins fighting (whom aren't members of Winter, even if they fight for them sometimes) and Summer Fae serving alongside Winter's troops.  It's a team effort, one that doesn't seem dependent on any fluctuating power levels between the Courts.
That's a whole separate thing for us to disagree on, lets hold off on that for now :)
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Rasins on June 22, 2017, 06:05:33 PM
That's a whole separate thing for us to disagree on, lets hold off on that for now :)

Now THAT is a diplomatic response.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Griffyn612 on June 22, 2017, 07:00:11 PM
As for the Gates, those are manned by personnel, not by power. What's more, there were goblins fighting (whom aren't members of Winter, even if they fight for them sometimes) and Summer Fae serving alongside Winter's troops.  It's a team effort, one that doesn't seem dependent on any fluctuating power levels between the Courts.
That's a whole separate thing for us to disagree on, lets hold off on that for now :)
Okay, forget everything I've proposed and go solely on what Aurora says in SK.
Quote
“In two days’ time, Midsummer will be upon us. The height of Summer’s strength.”
When you read this, what are you interpreting "Summer" as?  I'm interpreting it as the Court.

Quote
"If we are to have any chance of victory, we must
strike while at the peak of our strength."
When I read this, I interpret it again as Aurora saying the Summer Court is at peak strength.  Which implies their strength, their power, ebbs and wanes with the seasons.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Quantus on June 22, 2017, 07:55:09 PM
Okay, forget everything I've proposed and go solely on what Aurora says in SK.When you read this, what are you interpreting "Summer" as?  I'm interpreting it as the Court.
When I read this, I interpret it again as Aurora saying the Summer Court is at peak strength.  Which implies their strength, their power, ebbs and wanes with the seasons.
I agree with both of those, where I differ is in the idea that the Summer Court she's talking about is the sum total of Summer on Earth.

I think you are picturing a single Ball of Power that floats back and forth from Summer to Winter and Back, so when Summers power is Waxing toward Midsummer and Winters in Waning, it's because Power is moving from one Season/Court to the other; Summer is stronger at Midsummer because that's when they hold the Largest Share of total Season-Power. 

I Picture two separate but equal Balls of Power (Muspel and Nifel, per Norse Creation, but I digress).  When Summer's power begins to drop, that Power (which per the Mothers cannot be created or destroyed) is slipping to the Southern Hemisphere in equal Measures (because that's how Seasons normally work across hemispheres), and to counter that Winter's Power is moving up from the Southern Hemisphere in lockstep. 

You are picturing one ball being passed back and forth, Im picturing two separate but (nominally) equal balls of Power that are being passed Up and Down with opposite timing. 

The linchpin of all that is the WOJ on there being a Single Stone Table.  If it were as you describe and Only the Northern Hemisphere matters, that the Southern seasons simply do not factor in, then A)the Table would never move, and B) the relative politics of the Wyld would not matter.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Griffyn612 on June 22, 2017, 08:01:43 PM
I agree with both of those, where I differ is in the idea that the Summer Court she's talking about is the sum total of Summer on Earth.

I think you are picturing a single Ball of Power that floats back and forth from Summer to Winter and Back, so when Summers power is Waxing toward Midsummer and Winters in Waning, it's because Power is moving from one Season/Court to the other; Summer is stronger at Midsummer because that's when they hold the Largest Share of total Season-Power. 

I Picture two separate but equal Balls of Power (Muspel and Nifel, per Norse Creation, but I digress).  When Summer's power begins to drop, that Power (which per the Mothers cannot be created or destroyed) is slipping to the Southern Hemisphere in equal Measures (because that's how Seasons normally work across hemispheres), and to counter that Winter's Power is moving up from the Southern Hemisphere in lockstep. 

You are picturing one ball being passed back and forth, Im picturing two separate but (nominally) equal balls of Power that are being passed Up and Down with opposite timing. 

The linchpin of all that is the WOJ on there being a Single Stone Table.  If it were as you describe and Only the Northern Hemisphere matters, that the Southern seasons simply do not factor in, then A)the Table would never move, and B) the relative politics of the Wyld would not matter.
So are you saying that the Summer Court doesn't have access to the Seasonal Power in the southern hemisphere, and the same for the Winter Court in southern winter?  Which makes them weaker?  Because that's the only way they could lose power like you're describing.  But that doesn't work with them taking the stone table down there when needed.

Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Quantus on June 22, 2017, 08:03:29 PM
So are you saying that the Summer Court doesn't have access to the Seasonal Power in the southern hemisphere, and the same for the Winter Court in southern winter? Which makes them weaker?  Because that's the only way they could lose power like you're describing.  But that doesn't work with them taking the stone table down there when needed.
...I dont think so?  You lost me on that leap. 

I guess what Im saying is that in June of a given year, Mab has access to different levels of Power depending on which hemisphere she is standing in at any given moment.  SK was described as it was, and fell out as it was, because the Fight was taking place in the Northern Hemisphere.  In theory Aurora's plan would have work in the Southern hemisphere (maybe not quite as well do the the "less absolute" control the courts have so the weather fallout might not have been as intense) but she'd have had to wait 6 months because she needed the Table to be getting passed Summer to Winter for her plan to succeed. 
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Griffyn612 on June 22, 2017, 08:24:03 PM
...I dont think so?  You lost me on that leap. 

I guess what Im saying is that in June of a given year, Mab has access to different levels of Power depending on which hemisphere she is standing in at any given moment.  SK was described as it was, and fell out as it was, because the Fight was taking place in the Northern Hemisphere.  In theory Aurora's plan would have work in the Southern hemisphere (maybe not quite as well do the the "less absolute" control the courts have so the weather fallout might not have been as intense) but she'd have had to wait 6 months because she needed the Table to be getting passed Summer to Winter for her plan to succeed.
That doesn't make sense to me.  What you're suggesting makes "possession" of the Table pointless, because as soon as the summer solstice ended, Titania could have moved it to the southern hemisphere.  Mab would have been more powerful than her, but she wouldn't have been able to pour the SK's power into Winter, because Summer would be in control down there.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: groinkick on June 23, 2017, 04:09:05 AM
...I dont think so?  You lost me on that leap. 

I guess what Im saying is that in June of a given year, Mab has access to different levels of Power depending on which hemisphere she is standing in at any given moment.  SK was described as it was, and fell out as it was, because the Fight was taking place in the Northern Hemisphere.  In theory Aurora's plan would have work in the Southern hemisphere (maybe not quite as well do the the "less absolute" control the courts have so the weather fallout might not have been as intense) but she'd have had to wait 6 months because she needed the Table to be getting passed Summer to Winter for her plan to succeed.

Pretty sure the Sidhe got their power mostly from European paganism, and such.  So the Winter, and Summer solstice would align with those beliefs, and not because of the weather in different parts of the world.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Quantus on June 23, 2017, 11:57:41 AM
That doesn't make sense to me.  What you're suggesting makes "possession" of the Table pointless, because as soon as the summer solstice ended, Titania could have moved it to the southern hemisphere.  Mab would have been more powerful than her, but she wouldn't have been able to pour the SK's power into Winter, because Summer would be in control down there.
That's not how SK was going down.  Aurora needed the War so that the Hill would be contested and she'd be able to reach the Table when/where it was Winter's, and by then Titania and Mab had gone too far down the Obliterate Everything path to simply stall out everything so suddenly.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Griffyn612 on June 23, 2017, 12:16:01 PM
That's not how SK was going down.  Aurora needed the War so that the Hill would be contested and she'd be able to reach the Table when/where it was Winter's, and by then Titania and Mab had gone too far down the Obliterate Everything path to simply stall out everything so suddenly.
But that's the thing.  You're saying that both Courts possess the Table at the same time.  Even though Summer had it in the North, Winter would have it in the South.  Which would mean Man could have taken Ronald South with the Table (if she'd actually kidnapped him) and sacrificed​him immediately.  No need to wait.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Quantus on June 23, 2017, 12:22:31 PM
But that's the thing.  You're saying that both Courts possess the Table at the same time.  Even though Summer had it in the North, Winter would have it in the South.  Which would mean Man could have taken Ronald South with the Table (if she'd actually kidnapped him) and sacrificed​him immediately.  No need to wait.
Well sure, that's exactly what the WOJ on the Table RE Hemispheres seems to be saying:

Quote
2011 Bitten by Books Q&A
Oh and changing over of the stone table from winter-summer/summer-winter , well there are two hemispheres, are there two tables?
One table, but it goes where it is called.

Had things operated how you describe, this would make no sense, and the response would have ended to be something along the lines of "One table, but it only affects the Northern Hemisphere" because it wouldnt ever actually move across the equator. 
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Griffyn612 on June 23, 2017, 01:09:03 PM
Well sure, that's exactly what the WOJ on the Table RE Hemispheres seems to be saying:
I interpret that as him saying Mab can borrow the Table when needed, but during the Summer​ possession, it's still Summer's.

Quote
Had things operated how you describe, this would make no sense, and the response would have ended to be something along the lines of "One table, but it only affects the Northern Hemisphere" because it wouldnt ever actually move across the equator.
And if your interpretation were right, then Titania and her retinue would have known Mab didn't have the mantle, because if she did, it would have already been sacrificed on the Table in the south.  The whole plot of SK wouldn't work.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Quantus on June 23, 2017, 01:24:57 PM
I interpret that as him saying Mab can borrow the Table when needed, but during the Summer​ possession, it's still Summer's.
Quote
ya, now THAT makes no sense at all. 

And if your interpretation were right, then Titania and her retinue would have known Mab didn't have the mantle, because if she did, it would have already been sacrificed on the Table in the south.  The whole plot of SK wouldn't work.
Not at all, that assertion is assuming that Titania would somehow know the full goals of Aurora's plan while still mis-attributing it to Mab. It's not like Sacrificing the Knight Mantle on the Stone Table was the only possible Goal of stealing it. 
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Griffyn612 on June 23, 2017, 01:32:16 PM
And if your interpretation were right, then Titania and her retinue would have known Mab didn't have the mantle, because if she did, it would have already been sacrificed on the Table in the south.  The whole plot of SK wouldn't work.
Not at all, that assertion is assuming that Titania would somehow know the full goals of Aurora's plan while still mis-attributing it to Mab. It's not like Sacrificing the Knight Mantle on the Stone Table was the only possible Goal of stealing it.
I think we've reached the ATD point.  We both think the other person's interpretation doesn't make a lick of sense. 
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Quantus on June 23, 2017, 02:37:51 PM
I think we've reached the ATD point.  We both think the other person's interpretation doesn't make a lick of sense.
Agreed   8)

It's been a ton of fun though
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Rasins on June 23, 2017, 03:49:51 PM
Let me jump in here.

As I understand it, 90% of the population live in the north.
We know that the Fairy, at least partially, depend on humankind's belief for their existence.

What if, during Northern Hemisphere's Winter, Winter has 9 times the power they have in the South.  And the opposite for Summer.

This doesn't mean that weather or seasons are any weaker in the south, because weather and the seasons are global.  But the power that either court can bring to bear is greater when they are in power in the north.  And that smaller power base in the south keeps them in the game

Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Griffyn612 on June 23, 2017, 06:10:45 PM
Let me jump in here.

As I understand it, 90% of the population live in the north.
We know that the Fairy, at least partially, depend on humankind's belief for their existence.

What if, during Northern Hemisphere's Winter, Winter has 9 times the power they have in the South.  And the opposite for Summer.

This doesn't mean that weather or seasons are any weaker in the south, because weather and the seasons are global.  But the power that either court can bring to bear is greater when they are in power in the north.  And that smaller power base in the south keeps them in the game
That's more or less what I was suggesting, with the caveat that both Courts have an equal base power available to them, and the varying level of power is supplied by humanity.  With that base power level, the difference in the Courts would never be anywhere near 90%. 

Quantus and I agree that the Courts are equal in seasonal power all year long.  The difference is, I think they get an additional bonus from humanity that is based on humanity's perception, which makes one Court stronger than the other on a global scale for six months; he thinks they're equal in total power, and the fluctuation occurs only where they happen to be standing at any given time. 
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: ClintACK on June 24, 2017, 10:11:51 AM
Do people really believe in summer less during the wintertime?

Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Griffyn612 on June 24, 2017, 12:06:23 PM
Do people really believe in summer less during the wintertime?
Short question, long answer.  I'll spoilerize the background on the theory, which folks can read if they want the details.

(click to show/hide)

The power provided by humanity is attributed to the current season, which is what humanity is most concerned with, I.e. the weather affecting their daily lives. 

But, humanity also worries about the seasons before they arrive.  They start preparing for the winter long before it comes (Lord knows Winter can take it's sweet time coming), and start planning for planting and harvesting times long before it's time to work.   That shifting in humanity's attention coincides with the shifting of power between one Court and the other.
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: jonas on July 02, 2017, 12:29:52 AM
We sometimes see characters speculate about what nastiness might be found in the point in Faerie that corresponds to a given point on Earth.  For ex, Nicodemus warned Harry that he really wouldn't like what lay on the other side from Demonreach.  Usually there is some correspondence, as much symbolic as practice, for ex:  the royal hall of the Erlking lines up with a Bass Pro shop, IIRC.

But we don't see much speculation about the inverse.  For ex, what on Earth matches up to Arctic Tor?

Where would you find yourself if you opened a Gate from the Mothers' Cottage in Faerie to Earth?  (Not that I recommend performing the experiment.)
its very obvious the Cottage on DR and the mothers are one and the same. When Harry joins MS on the rock, which is in the same spot as the lighthouse, it allows them to travel to the outergates. Evidence the sleepers and the dreamers(outsiders wanting in) are one and the same?
Title: Re: The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Post by: Bakoro on July 02, 2017, 04:51:41 AM
its very obvious the Cottage on DR and the mothers are one and the same. When Harry joins MS on the rock, which is in the same spot as the lighthouse, it allows them to travel to the outergates. Evidence the sleepers and the dreamers(outsiders wanting in) are one and the same?

The Mothers are powerful enough to port around basically wherever they want. Even in Changes it seemed like Vadderung was powerful enough to make an item that opened a wormhole directly from Chichen Itza to Chicago. The Mothers can open a Way from their hut to, anywhere essentially. I don't think anyone can got to the Mother's place, or even find it, unless they want it to be found. I don't think Harry really just stumbled upon them in SK, more like they manipulated the NN so Harry would find them.

Knowing the Merlin, it *could* be that he was just that well-connected that he got a shortcut on his island to see them, but it would be by their Will. Now I could see DR having a shortcut to the Outer Gates on it, that would be awfully convenient.

Let's be real though, if there's any sure-fire Way to get to the Mother's place, it's to use a copy of *Who Framed Roger Rabbit*.