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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: jamescagney22 on June 14, 2017, 05:28:11 PM
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So we know what Ebenezer McCoy, Listens to Winds, and Arthur Langtry, abilities in evocation and thaumaturgy are, and since Peace Talks will most likely have them slugging out with one another, I was curious if anyone knew what Martha Liberty, Ancient Mai, the Gatekeeper, and Cristos abilities in magic, elemental or otherwise were? For that matter even though it is a moot point what did Aleron LaFortier bring to the table, since he was Cristos mentor maybe there is some overlap.
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Hmmm I'd guess that Martha Liberty is good with mental magic based on her ability to sense Harry's pain. I don't know if it was her, or LTW but they put up a cloak that was apparently pretty awesome. I'm guessing Martha is like Molly, great with mental magic and illusions.
The Gatekeeper I think has displayed a great understanding of time, and his aiding Langtry in putting up a protective shield can't big ignored.
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Ebenezer - the evocations of the group, Blackstaff power upgrade that allows him to break the Laws without backlash
Listens -to-Wind - master Shapeshifter, master healer
Arthur Langtry - specialises in Air Evocation and Wards, the strongest member of the SC
Rashid, The Gatekeeper - described as the most dangerous Wizard in the world. Seems to specialise in probability assessment and mind magic.
Martha Liberty - specialises in Thaumaturgy, specifically information-gathering. She’s got legions of contacts in the Nevernever and the mortal world alike.
Ancient Mai - most likely artefact specialist, created the Stone Templedogs the Warden use.
Gregori Cristos - rose to fame while fighting the Rakshasa, so either another evocationist or great tactician/strategist
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I always assumed Rashid's danger was his capacity for knowing things.
Presumably, based on what we know, it's either to do with detecting magic (see proven guilty), or using the NN (see Cold Days).
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I always assumed Rashid's danger was his capacity for knowing things.
Presumably, based on what we know, it's either to do with detecting magic (see proven guilty), or using the NN (see Cold Days).
He can't be a slouch at combat either, considering he was acting as air support for Winter's troops at the Gates in CD and was credited with taking down the author of the Necronomicon.
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He can't be a slouch at combat either, considering he was acting as air support for Winter's troops at the Gates in CD and was credited with taking down the author of the Necronomicon.
I didnt get the impression that he was actually taking part in the actual fighting at the Gates, His was a lookout (literally a " Gatekeeper") role.
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Oh, I very much think that Rashid is slugging it out day and night with Outsiders when he is guarding the Gates. Yes, his most crucial role is being a CT Scan for returning troops but while the fighting goes on he will throw spells at the attacking Outsiders as well.
It's why I think he is so long-lived (over 1200 years old). Dresden said/theorised that the Wizard healing effect is directly connected with how powerful magic you use and how often you use it, so Rashid being a top percentile strength Wizard, wielding Outergates powered Magic on a daily basis, is what allows him to be so old.
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It's why I think he is so long-lived (over 1200 years old). Dresden said/theorised that the Wizard healing effect is directly connected with how powerful magic you use and how often you use it, so Rashid being a top percentile strength Wizard, wielding Outergates powered Magic on a daily basis, is what allows him to be so old.
I think the simpler answer to Rashid's age is the fact, that the Nevernever does not operate on Earth's time it just uses that as a reference point, so it is very likely, that due to spending so much time in it (the Gates are at the edge between NN and the Outside, IIRC), he hasn't been affected by the passage of time normally.
Also to me, Rashid seems more like the mythological post-Yggdrassil Odin (ie: very cunning use of little magic and/or using powerful magic in a supportive role) rather than a full-on Harry-style battery power slinger. So I'd guess his specialty is precognition and time manipulation, with his eye boosting his mind/soul reading powers.
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Oh, I very much think that Rashid is slugging it out day and night with Outsiders when he is guarding the Gates. Yes, his most crucial role is being a CT Scan for returning troops but while the fighting goes on he will throw spells at the attacking Outsiders as well.
It's why I think he is so long-lived (over 1200 years old). Dresden said/theorised that the Wizard healing effect is directly connected with how powerful magic you use and how often you use it, so Rashid being a top percentile strength Wizard, wielding Outergates powered Magic on a daily basis, is what allows him to be so old.
The closest thign to a WOJ on his age is that "we're all time travelers. We just happen to be on the slow boat." which makes me strongly suspect that his advanced age (relative to other wizards) is simply a matter of time dilation in the far reaches of the NN he walks.
As far as him throwing spells around: Nothing he could do offensively would come close to registering on the scale of that battle, where formations count in the tens of thousands, and are doing battle well out in front of the Gates. So him throwing any sort of offensive evocations is pointless tactically, but would still both distract and fatigue him, when he already has a much more specific and critical role, one that nobody else can do (unlike offensive magic that Fae would do better anyway).
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Of all the Senior Council members, it is in the Gatekeeper that the Merlin relies to stop the mistfiend in Turn Coat from attacking him, while the Merlin himself focuses on stopping it from attacking the rest of the White Council. That suggests to me where the Merlin ranks the Gatekeeper when it comes to combat ability.
Also, someone in reddit put something similar together:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dresdenfiles/comments/4exvg8/the_senior_council_a_compilation_spoilers_all/
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Also to me, Rashid seems more like the mythological post-Yggdrassil Odin (ie: very cunning use of little magic and/or using powerful magic in a supportive role) rather than a full-on Harry-style battery power slinger. So I'd guess his specialty is precognition and time manipulation, with his eye boosting his mind/soul reading powers.
Interesting..
They also both have an eye missing, have a replacement eye that gives them knowledge, both are taller than Harry (which is really rare) and both deal with time manipulation.
WAG: Odin is Gatekeeper
Okay maybe not, but there's definitely a connection there.
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Interesting..
They also both have an eye missing, have a replacement eye that gives them knowledge, both are taller than Harry (which is really rare) and both deal with time manipulation.
WAG: Odin is Gatekeeper
Okay maybe not, but there's definitely a connection there.
They've both had the same job, Odin was the previous Gatekeeper, Rashid's "eye" was probably Odins at one time.
EDIT, ok "A" previous Gatekeeper.
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Of all the Senior Council members, it is in the Gatekeeper that the Merlin relies to stop the mistfiend in Turn Coat from attacking him, while the Merlin himself focuses on stopping it from attacking the rest of the White Council. That suggests to me where the Merlin ranks the Gatekeeper when it comes to combat ability.
Dont forget that they both seem to specialize in Barrier Magic, specifically, which would make sense for that Mistfiend scene. After all, the two of them in DB held of the entire Red Army with a single Ward.
They've both had the same job, Odin was the previous Gatekeeper, Rashid's "eye" was probably Odins at one time.
I mean, it's /possible/ though I strongly suspect that
I cant grab the direct quote right now, but fwiw a recent WOJ clarified that the previous Gatekeeper was Alighiero di Bellincion (who's son was famous as the Author of the Divine Comedy including Dante's Inferno) who historically lived from 1205 to 1283(ish)
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Of all the Senior Council members, it is in the Gatekeeper that the Merlin relies to stop the mistfiend in Turn Coat from attacking him, while the Merlin himself focuses on stopping it from attacking the rest of the White Council. That suggests to me where the Merlin ranks the Gatekeeper when it comes to combat ability.
Also, someone in reddit put something similar together:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dresdenfiles/comments/4exvg8/the_senior_council_a_compilation_spoilers_all/
Well - it was also mordite laced, which is possible an Outside element.
As the Gatekeeper, protection from Outside would seem a role for him no matter his magical speciality.
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Excellent point :)
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I cant grab the direct quote right now, but fwiw a recent WOJ clarified that the previous Gatekeeper was Alighiero di Bellincion (who's son was famous as the Author of the Divine Comedy including Dante's Inferno) who historically lived from 1205 to 1283(ish)
... As soon as I saw that, I had to Google it. It seems that comes from the new RPG, so it's not quite WoJ? Or was it confirmed elsewhere as well, maybe in an interview?
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... As soon as I saw that, I had to Google it. It seems that comes from the new RPG, so it's not quite WoJ? Or was it confirmed elsewhere as well, maybe in an interview?
I /thought/ it was confirmed more directly in an interview or Q&A, but Im less sure than I was a moment ago :-\
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It was mentioned in the DF Accelerated, so it's not a WoJ as such, but supposedly he at least proofreads these things.
The current Gatekeeper is Wizard Rashid; many others have come before him, such as Alighiero di Bellincione, whose tales of the Outer Gates purportedly inspired his son Dante’s La Divina Commedia.
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It was mentioned in the DF Accelerated, so it's not a WoJ as such, but supposedly he at least proofreads these things.
Hmm, ok, I'll Accept it for my head-cannon at least. The standing description is that the RPG's are very close but considered like a parallel world or some such, but the divergences all had more to do with who knows what (in the RPG Billy knew /all/ the secrets, since he wrote it) or when they needed to hard-quantify power levels and things. That sort of pure historic World detail strikes me as the sort of thing they'd not add without Jim's approval.
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If Martha Liberty lives with her great-grandchildren and their kids, could she be aware of modern tech far more than any other member of the SC? Think about it. Even if her blood don't have magical power like she does, they would be living pretty normal lives and be aware of things like the internet and twitter and facebook.
If her family is kind of like Murphy, vanilla (or in this case plain chocolate) but aware of the magical world, she could use her family to watch the internet for things and contact people she cannot directly speak with because her power would make the computer blow up.
And as seen in SG, if she has even a basic circle in the computer room, she could sit there and watch in a protective circle as her family member responds to e-mails and such. The circle would keep in her magic and keep the computer safe.
Having contact via the internet would help with a lot of her contacts.
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I don't know which video this is from, but I remember Jim saying that one of the Merlin's specialties is the coordination of wizards in combat via that mind chat spell we saw in TC.
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If Martha Liberty lives with her great-grandchildren and their kids, could she be aware of modern tech far more than any other member of the SC? Think about it. Even if her blood don't have magical power like she does, they would be living pretty normal lives and be aware of things like the internet and twitter and facebook.
If her family is kind of like Murphy, vanilla (or in this case plain chocolate) but aware of the magical world, she could use her family to watch the internet for things and contact people she cannot directly speak with because her power would make the computer blow up.
And as seen in SG, if she has even a basic circle in the computer room, she could sit there and watch in a protective circle as her family member responds to e-mails and such. The circle would keep in her magic and keep the computer safe.
Having contact via the internet would help with a lot of her contacts.
It certainly would, though Im not sure it would be significantly different than a wizard simply having Vanilla friends. Hell, Luccio studies Computer Theory as a hobby. I think a wizards familiarity with modern life and technology has a lot more to do with personality than with access.
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After re-reading Turn Coat and Death Masks, I think that Martha Liberty has connections with the Loa spirits and perhaps other spirits of Voodoo lore. On a similar note the Gatekeeper appears to have sponsored magic from Winter since the colors he used on Molly, Billy and Georgia, are similar to that of Winter along with slumber, the effect it had on them being an aspect of Winter as well.
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As far as him throwing spells around: Nothing he could do offensively would come close to registering on the scale of that battle, where formations count in the tens of thousands, and are doing battle well out in front of the Gates. So him throwing any sort of offensive evocations is pointless tactically, but would still both distract and fatigue him, when he already has a much more specific and critical role, one that nobody else can do (unlike offensive magic that Fae would do better anyway).
From Harry's glimpse at the battle, did we actually see the Sidhe using magic against the Outsiders? A landscape composed mostly of bones would make for abundant shrapnel to throw around with anything that can push on it.
For that matter, air support doesn't even have to be magical. Find a grenade that still goes boom under Nevernever physics, buy lots, drop them from above.
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From Harry's glimpse at the battle, did we actually see the Sidhe using magic against the Outsiders? A landscape composed mostly of bones would make for abundant shrapnel to throw around with anything that can push on it.
For that matter, air support doesn't even have to be magical. Find a grenade that still goes boom under Nevernever physics, buy lots, drop them from above.
::Devil's Advocate::
Well, supposedly what Harry saw wasnt actually anything close to what was going on, it was just the best analogy Harry's brain was able to come up with. So I dont know how much we can trust his glimpsed details.
2015 Grid Daily interview
The Gate seems like something that, if it didn’t start with a consciousness, would develop it over time. Is that the case?
It probably is, but the consciousness of an inanimate object like that is mostly like that of a mountain. “I AM HERE.” And it’s just increasingly aware of its here-ness. The Gate actually exists very differently than what Harry saw, but that’s how Harry has to interpret it because it’s far out in the Nevernever. Your mind has to put things into terms it can understand or you go squirrely. Harry’s got a very good mind for reducing things to simple ideas. Which most of the Senior Council would say with a roll of their eyes.
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Its also worth pointing out that magic does not work well directly against Outsiders unless you are very experienced wizard or perhaps a Sidhe lord so on average magic is probably used sparingly and decisively during the siege.