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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: groinkick on April 12, 2017, 08:14:15 PM
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Mab and Titania haven't spoke in like 1000 years, and it was over a man whom Jim said didn't survive. We also know that when things got bad in the wizard world both Queen's died resulting in the rise of Mab, and Titania. I'm wondering if they were in love with a Starborn, possibly even Merlin, and that person brought about the end of the previous Queen's somehow either through action, or inaction.
This could explain Titania's and Mab's feelings towards Harry, a Starborn as they had trusted, and had feelings for the previous one. Jim described Titania being very nervous of Harry, and Mab keeping her enemies close.
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Mab and Titania haven't spoke in like 1000 years, and it was over a man whom Jim said didn't survive. We also know that when things got bad in the wizard world both Queen's died resulting in the rise of Mab, and Titania. I'm wondering if they were in love with a Starborn, possibly even Merlin, and that person brought about the end of the previous Queen's somehow either through action, or inaction.
This could explain Titania's and Mab's feelings towards Harry, a Starborn as they had trusted, and had feelings for the previous one. Jim described Titania being very nervous of Harry, and Mab keeping her enemies close.
The Man in question was specifically Oberon, per that WOJ. Though given the theme of multiple identities, I supposed Oberon could have also been the original Merlin. Though the WOJ's paint Oberon as far more coldly Dead than how they decribe Merlin.
So I dont know that Oberon would fit as Merlin, but I do strongly suspect that the original Merlin was indeed a Starborn, and also the Winter Knight, which is in turn why he was entrusted with The Blackstaff by Mother Winter. And odds are he was a central player in all the Big-Deal shenanigans that were going down around that time.
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The Man in question was specifically Oberon, per that WOJ. Though given the theme of multiple identities, I supposed Oberon could have also been the original Merlin. Though the WOJ's paint Oberon as far more coldly Dead than how they decribe Merlin.
So I dont know that Oberon would fit as Merlin, but I do strongly suspect that the original Merlin was indeed a Starborn, and also the Winter Knight, which is in turn why he was entrusted with The Blackstaff by Mother Winter. And odds are he was a central player in all the Big-Deal shenanigans that were going down around that time.
Has it actually been officially confirmed that the Blackstaff is Mother Winter's walking stick?
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Has it actually been officially confirmed that the Blackstaff is Mother Winter's walking stick?
Yeah so much so that Jim said so at one point. So many people suspected it I don't think he felt a need to deny it.
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Perhaps the last Star Born who killed a few Queens was Merlin, but I suspect if both Mab and Titania loved a mortal, it was probably Tam Lin. Who then left the Knight service to be with some mortal woman.
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Perhaps the last Star Born who killed a few Queens was Merlin, but I suspect if both Mab and Titania loved a mortal, it was probably Tam Lin. Who then left the Knight service to be with some mortal woman.
Hmm...according to legend, one of the dangers of taking a Fae lover was that they can be ferociously jealous, murderously jealous, even if they are routinely unfaithful themselves. I wonder if Mab and Titania share that tendency...
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Hmm...according to legend, one of the dangers of taking a Fae lover was that they can be ferociously jealous, murderously jealous, even if they are routinely unfaithful themselves. I wonder if Mab and Titania share that tendency...
I could see that... Mab would see you as her prized possession, and Titania would love you deeply. Both would fight for you
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Hmm...according to legend, one of the dangers of taking a Fae lover was that they can be ferociously jealous, murderously jealous, even if they are routinely unfaithful themselves. I wonder if Mab and Titania share that tendency...
Well, WOJ is that Oberon was a mortal caught in a love triangle between them, and it did not end well for him. So, I think that's reasonable.
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Well, WOJ is that Oberon was a mortal caught in a love triangle between them, and it did not end well for him. So, I think that's reasonable.
Interestingly, if it was a matter of jealousy, there's no guarantee that it was Mab who killed him (if one did). It's at least equally like that it was Titania, who revels in her lack of self-control. Of the two, I would say T is at least as likely to lash out at a lover in a jealous rage as Mab.
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Interestingly, if it was a matter of jealousy, there's no guarantee that it was Mab who killed him (if one did). It's at least equally like that it was Titania, who revels in her lack of self-control. Of the two, I would say T is at least as likely to lash out at a lover in a jealous rage as Mab.
Id say far more so. Mab wouldnt lash out, she'd scheme...
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Well, WOJ is that Oberon was a mortal caught in a love triangle between them, and it did not end well for him. So, I think that's reasonable.
Hmm, was he really a mortal? I can't remember the exact quote though.
/Ulfgeir
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Hmm, was he really a mortal? I can't remember the exact quote though.
/Ulfgeir
Huh, actually, no it does not. I would have sworn it did...
Dudesan: You've described Santa Claus as being the Winter King. What does that title mean? Do Winter and Summer each have a trinity of Father/King/Prince, like they do with Mother/Queen/Lady? Is the King necessarily the consort of the Queen? If so, will we be seeing Oberon at some point?
Jim: 5) The Faerie realms just aren't that structured. It's more accurate to say that he is /a/ Winter King. Or even more accurately, that he is a free Wyld Fae who is of a power level that is on par with Mab's and happens to neighbor her sphere of influence, and finds it simpler to show up to family dinners during the holidays and make polite than to start staking out boundaries and establishing treaties.
Oberon... well, the guy kind of wound up between Mab and Titania in one of those romantic triangle things, back around Shakespeare's day. He didn't make it.
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Hmm...according to legend, one of the dangers of taking a Fae lover was that they can be ferociously jealous, murderously jealous, even if they are routinely unfaithful themselves. I wonder if Mab and Titania share that tendency...
Maybe if they genuinely cared about the mortal in question, but in the case of the Knight as the Queen's consort I don't think faithfulness is expected. Particularly in Winter's case, if Mab were going around killing the Knight's bedmates after the deed out of jealousy, she'd hardly have time for anything else under less rigidly self-controlled Knights than Harry.
I'd say if she has any problem with him starting an actual relationship with Karrin, it's more likely to be that their connection would help keep his humanity grounded, and get in the way of her agenda to mould him into a monster. Of course, it's not like Mab can just up and kill Karrin herself, or order Harry to with any expectation of obedience, but she may try to create more distrust as she did between Harry and Molly in SG.
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Huh, actually, no it does not. I would have sworn it did...
You may be thinking of the compose who is Mab's Baby Daddy?
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Maybe if they genuinely cared about the mortal in question, but in the case of the Knight as the Queen's consort I don't think faithfulness is expected. Particularly in Winter's case, if Mab were going around killing the Knight's bedmates after the deed out of jealousy, she'd hardly have time for anything else under less rigidly self-controlled Knights than Harry.
I'd say if she has any problem with him starting an actual relationship with Karrin, it's more likely to be that their connection would help keep his humanity grounded, and get in the way of her agenda to mould him into a monster. Of course, it's not like Mab can just up and kill Karrin herself, or order Harry to with any expectation of obedience, but she may try to create more distrust as she did between Harry and Molly in SG.
I wasn't thinking of Harry in specific. He really hasn't taken a Fae lover, the one time with Mab was more of a ceremonial thing than anything else, and I doubt it was SOP. As Harry said, it was less sex than something that was superficially like it.
I was thinking more along the lines of Oberon, or Maeve's father.
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Interestingly, if it was a matter of jealousy, there's no guarantee that it was Mab who killed him (if one did). It's at least equally like that it was Titania, who revels in her lack of self-control. Of the two, I would say T is at least as likely to lash out at a lover in a jealous rage as Mab.
We are assuming he was innocent. He may in fact have been playing a game with both of them. They fought over him, and then realized he was playing them. If this was the case they probably share in his torment.... Sometimes with Summer, sometimes with Winter... It could still be going on lol.
Of course their not speaking does make it look like their fight is with each other, and not him.
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We are assuming he was innocent.
No, I'm not. What I said applies equally well either way. Whether he was innocent, or trying to play them, Titania's still the one of the two more likely to lash out in a lethal angry rage.
Of course their not speaking does make it look like their fight is with each other, and not him.
Not necessarily a contradiction. Any given lover might try to 'play' them, and even after they found out they could still easily blame each other as well.
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I really doubt that Titania is in love with Harry. They've only met the once (that we know of).
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Titania told Harry that she and her twin sister have not spoken directly since 1066, presumably in a context that had something to do with the Battle of Hastings. I wonder when we'll see them have their first face-to-face encounter in a millennium...
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I really doubt that Titania is in love with Harry. They've only met the once (that we know of).
Never made the claim
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Never made the claim
Elaine?
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Elaine?
Na. The last time things got really bad there was a Starborn running around, according to Jim. It was a really long time ago. I was speculating that's when Mab, and Titania had a falling out.
Mab and Titania haven't spoke in like 1000 years, and it was over a man whom Jim said didn't survive. We also know that when things got bad in the wizard world both Queen's died resulting in the rise of Mab, and Titania. I'm wondering if they were in love with a Starborn, possibly even Merlin, and that person brought about the end of the previous Queen's somehow either through action, or inaction.
This could explain Titania's and Mab's feelings towards Harry, a Starborn as they had trusted, and had feelings for the previous one. Jim described Titania being very nervous of Harry, and Mab keeping her enemies close.
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Na. The last time things got really bad there was a Starborn running around, according to Jim. It was a really long time ago. I was speculating that's when Mab, and Titania had a falling out.
Oh. I thought we had confirmation that it was Tam Lin.
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Oh. I thought we had confirmation that it was Tam Lin.
Dunno. I thought Tam Lin got out of being Winter Knight alive. Some people thought it might have been someone from mythology, another Winter/Summer King. I think that is probably more realistic than my proposal
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Oh. I thought we had confirmation that it was Tam Lin.
No, we only have confirmation that he was a former Winter Knight. To my knowledge we dont have ANY confirmed examples of a Starborn save Harry himself and Elaine as a "potential". There are a couple mentions of previous Starborn in WOJ (no names though), and a bunch of theories for possible historic examples (My money is on the original Merlin).
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You know, if it wasn't Merlin, it could have been Arthur.
But if it wasn't either of them, (likely, since I recall that Shakespeare was only a few hundred years ago), it could have been Shakespeare himself…but nah, it could (and probably is), somebody else.
And Maeve wasn't of either of these, as I recall per WoG that it was an Austrian Composer, which means it was possibly Beethoven or Mozart.
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You know, if it wasn't Merlin, it could have been Arthur.
But if it wasn't either of them, (likely, since I recall that Shakespeare was only a few hundred years ago), it could have been Shakespeare himself…but nah, it could (and probably is), somebody else.
And Maeve wasn't of either of these, as I recall per WoG that it was an Austrian Composer, which means it was possibly Beethoven or Mozart.
Mozart is a strong contender, though I think there was some reason we concluded Beethoven wasnt a good fit (too recent and German, I think).
There was another composer I was less familiar with that somebody made a great case for, but I cannot for the life of me remember who, (Franz Schubert?) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Schubert). I recall that he had some works that were suspiciously fitting to have been Fae inspired, and he had a somewhat mysterious death at a young age.