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McAnally's (The Community Pub) => Author Craft => Topic started by: sights unseen on September 02, 2007, 03:12:48 PM
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Someone at the Kelley Armstrong board has three books published by this eBooks site. So I went there. Not sure if it's entirely romance, but there are many paranormal genres.
What I like about it is you can read the first chapters of the books. I figure I can study them to see how to get my chapters going.
anywho, here's the link. If you click on the picture of the book, it will take you to where you can read a sample chapter.
http://www.cobblestone-press.com/index.htm
I might even consider sending in one of my manuscripts, if I ever get one finished. I doubt any author there lives off their royalities, but it would be a good way to get your stuff out there.
Anyone heard of this place? And would you consider eBooks as an alternate way to publish your manuscript?
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Among my collegues at the writer's group I go to, publishing an ebook is frowned upon.
Self-publishing a hard copy book is good for poets and workbooks that support a lecture, but for a fiction novel, the perception seems to be that anything self-published is self-published because it's not good enough that the writer could find anyone to take it on. And since we all know how crappy some stuff published by some big firms can be, that must mean it's reeeeeallly bad. (Whether it actually is that bad or not, apparently the author him/herself didn't believe in it enough to persevere.)
E-book is further down the totem pole than that. E-books are good as give away teasers, but I can't see people making much money from them at all. As you said, you get to read a bunch of chapters for free. Ask yourself this... after reading those chapters, did you just *have to have* the rest of the book and pay to download it? Or did your attention quickly flit on to the nexy shiny object of your life?
That said, once you have your novel published by a reputable firm in hard copy, I've heard publishing an Electronic copy via PDF is a great way to boost your sales.
JMwriter's group's O
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I should ask the gal who's published her books there what her opinion is about the site. If she's happy with her 'sales', does she get many readers. She's seem pretty happy about her books being published there, but I suppose the word 'published' would make anyone giddy.
I didn't see a place on there that showed how many customers or repeat customers came to the site. But there are a heck of a lot of writer's publishing there and many books available. But those books could be sitting alone in a void if no one clicks to read them.
Are eBook sites just self-publishing sites in disguise?
Oh, down at the bottom left there was some info, but nothing on the number of customers they have. I'm still curious about it. I think the 'frowned upon' attitude is valid, but I also think electronic publishing is in our future. Maybe far future, but still, something to consider. And there are going to be authors who are going to frown on something. Some look down their noses at straight romance, others think there's too much sex in books, etc.
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Are eBook sites just self-publishing sites in disguise?
I think the 'frowned upon' attitude is valid, but I also think electronic publishing is in our future. Maybe far future, but still, something to consider.
I can't really answer that question. On the one hand, publishing via e-book *IS* self-publishing. On the other hand, are there companies out to make a profit by diversifying their products int the e-book niche and not being forthcoming about it? Probably, I just don't know.
I agree with your second comment. I think it's in our future too, sadly. My most recent laptop purchase came with a program already installed for downloading E-magazines and E-books. I do 90% of my reading and writing on the web as it is now. But there is nothing there that can take the place of an unplugged evening with a warm fire and a hot romance in my hands.
;)
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Just for curiousity sake, I emailed Cobblestone Publishing and asked about their sales and customer numbers. Seems like that information should be publically available, especially if they actually do have a large or growing customer/return customer count. Doesn't hurt to ask. I'll let ya'll know if they reply. ;)
Didn't Stephen King do an eBook on Amazon? And I know Amazon also sells eBooks too. And from what I've read, you could put hundreds of books on one CD, or whatever it uses. I think eBooks will eventually creep into our everday worlds where we don't give it a second thought.
And I wondered about quality of writing in eBooks too.
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Yes, he did. But he's Stephen King and he could sell mimeographs of his grocery list and people would fall all over themselves to buy it. :D
Actually, snarky comment aside, he's got years and years of brand recognition in his name, he has the freedom to publish in any format and people already know the quality of his work (whether they like it or not is their own opinion. They know what they're getting.)
For an "unpublished" author, the perception is still that the quality is not there, or that the writer doesn't have enough faith in his own work to persevere.
It's also very rare for a reputable publishing company to touch a book after it has been published via self-publishing in any form.... but it's not completely unheard of. James Redfield's Celestine Prophecy was self-published and was such a word of mouth success that Warner Books came to him and offered to publish a second printing. Ten years or so later, the book became a movie.
So, anything's possible.
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Got a reply back. Didn't sound too happy that I asked for the information:
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"Ms. James,
We do not have “public sales” figures and releasing numbers on sales would be a violation of author privacy.
I can tell you that we average 200,000 visitors a month to our website.
Deanna Lee
Yahoo IM ID: deannaleebooks
www.deannaleebooks.com
www.cobblestone-press.com
http://nakedpublisher.blogspot.com/
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Firstly, it's Ms. Jones , and I would think if they sold a lot they would say something like, "we average 10,000 book sales a month." I didn't ask for individual sales, just what was their sales figures in general. Oh well.
And visitors and buyers are two separate animals. ::)
I'll contact the gal that publishes there and see what she says. I'll let ya'll know later. ;)
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Cool!
Thanks for sharing.
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Didn't Stephen King do an eBook on Amazon? And I know Amazon also sells eBooks too. And from what I've read, you could put hundreds of books on one CD, or whatever it uses. I think eBooks will eventually creep into our everday worlds where we don't give it a second thought.
Writers who already have something of a name seem to be able to do themselves some good with eBook distribution. Charlie Stross talks about this in public a lot; Cory Doctorow does too, and I think they have both quoted figures. Likewise Baen's Bar seems to be doing rather well, though again that's affiliated with a print publisher of long-standing known reputation.
I very much doubt e-publishing a first novel by an unknown author is a good idea.
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At this point in time, e-books for first times authors are looked upon as if a vanity press.
IE, not good, and not professional.
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Um, guilty.
I've bought books from Cobblestone Press, and on more than one occasion. Can't say I'm a good critiquer for whether or not a book is well-written, but IMO some ebooks are good, some are bad, some ebook publishers do a good job editing, and some (defunct) ebook publishers don't. Yes, this applies to stories I have read from Cobblestone Press. Yes, I watch for some of their authors' next books. Yes, I buy ebooks from more than one e-publisher.
If an author catches my attention, I will buy their tale, fiction or non-fiction, whether it be e-published or paper-published. I will especially buy their ebook if it be late at night and no bookstore be open. I will often buy an ebook in addition to, sometimes in place of, a paper edition. Since our house is small, paper editions often go to the local Goodwill equivalent (whine), and the ebook edition remains with me.
Don't know what the pay structures and rates are for ebook publishing versus paper publishing, but might some of the anti-ebook sniffing be simply established prejudice? Please educate me.
Sincerely,
A Recovering Packrat, and a Happy Bookaholic
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I have to agree with MerryB. And Mickey Finn. ;D
One the one hand, I think there's a bit of snobbery by writers concerning eBooks. But on the other, I wonder how dedicated the esite actually is when it comes to good writing and editing. Do they actually reject any manuscript or take anything? From the response I got from them, that particular person didn't sound too chatty about wanting to reveal any information on the company.
Need to get in touch with that gal. ::)
Oh, and I'll probably be an older lady when or if I'm ever published. Or maybe by that time, eBooks will have become legitimate. ;D
Well, on her blog, she says she and her editor there go through a standard three rounds of edits. just some nosey fyi. ;D
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I believe most e-book publishers do not do any editing or proofing at all, unless they offer it as an extra cost service. They mostly don't care what your subject is, since they have no investment in promoting it or selling it themselves.
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Bingo on the last two posts. That's why it's frowned upon.
Also, honestly, it's a tad annoying when people who have gone through all the hard work of legit press (and right now, epublishing is NOT legit press. Hopefully, that will one day change) get put on a panel at a con with someone who is a vanity press (or equivalent) going on and on about being a writer. *
The exception to this rule is when said vanity press author acknowledges that they are a vanity writer and respects the hell the other authors went through in legit press. I have seen that happen, and they got a ton of respect for doing so.
*This is not from personal experience...well, I've been in the audience a few times.
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I'm reminded of a short story where a writer did manage to get big bucks out of a vanity press book. They wrote the most libelous, scandalous, slanderous biography imaginable about someone and sent it in to be published under a pseudonym, then when it was published and distributed, the vanity publisher had to settle massive damages.
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Well, I've yet to hear anything from the ebooks published author I was telling you about. It would be interesting to read her side of the story.
Mickey Finn, how do you feel about the con's willingness to allow ebook authors to sit on panels? Do you think the cons are trying to 'legitimize' eBooks by doing so?
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Oh, I'm not the one to ask, here...this is stuff I've heard from established authors ;)
(But I hear it alot.)
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I was the John Ringo site, there seems to be a major controversy over e-books brewing, with the SWFA coming down againist e-books. What's Jim's stance this?
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Could have sworn I posted something on ebooks here...specifically about the Baen site.... Or I could be just going senile. Or maybe I just thought about posting something, then saw something shiney and wandered off after it.
I can see the heartburn about poorly edited works reflecting poorly on the writer community, or a genre, but frankly, a lot of the harshing on ebooks appears, to me anyway, to be a mix of elitism and publisher appeasement. Kind of like Sony getting all lathered up about Protecting The Sanctity of Music from self-recorded & indie bands getting their stuff out there "Without doing the hard work involved in getting on a major label" I view an authors aptitude and quality as based on their work, rather than what hoops they have successfully navigated. I understand the irritation one feels when The New Generation does something without all the work and heartbreak required in the past...hell, I remember when games where made out of wood, and we weeeeeeeeere GRATEFUL. No, really. Lincoln Logs where as high tech as it got when I was growing up. "Pong" was the absolute miracle of the gods ... and kids these days complain if there system has less than a terrabyte of hardrive and a keyboard that has a wire ....
But think of the opportunity ebooks can present, to authors with offbeat or niche work that an established publisher isn't interested because the focus group says that yet another My Mommy Was Mean Tell All will bring in more bucks. There's great opportunity here for new and old writers alike.
As long as the author is cool with it, in regards to his own work, I don't see the problem. I'd have a big problem with a publisher strongarming an author into providing samples, however. As for them hurting sales, I've purchased a pile of books by authors who had posted an ebook or even just a good sized sample as a freebie...it let me try out the flavor of the writing without risking 8 or 9 bucks. Many, many books. I get cards from bookstore managers thanking me for helping them make their bonus for the month... And then I books by authors the first author likes to collaborate with, then She Who Must Be Obeyed gives me this certain look, and I hide.
But ebooks being a "threat to literature"? Quality will win out...people willing to read trash will still read trash, there will always be somebody out to pander to the lowest common denominator (like reality TV, but in text files) ..... but it's not like trash ebooks will squeeze the good stuff off the shelves.
Text in data format takes up small spaces, and doesn't even need airholes. *shrug*
And then there's the one fellow's bit about ebook writers being "webscabs". That's a big Whiskey Tango Foxtrot right there. I don't see how, say, David Drake's ebooks hurt the sales or insult the integrety of other authors, or the sanctity of "The Book" as a concept. If somebody's mad that the guy who gives out samples gets more sales, that's just kind of silly.
That being said, I personally prefer paper books to ebooks, they don't get corrupted unless I spill something on them, they still work when the power out, don't need to be plugged in and recharged. Plus I like how books smell. Unless they've been stored in a damp basement. Paper texts are personally more satisfying to me. And, perversly, on the occassions where I have purchased an ebook, or downloaded a legit "Free sample" ebook (no piracy for me), I've usually ended up buying hardcopy if it's still in print, or can't be ordered used. I think we'll see more ebooks as time progresses, and as paper becomes more expensive...but I do hope that paper texts never go the away, that would be a true nightmare world for me.
I'm also in the lot who would be very interested in hearing JB's opinion on the matter, but I know there are things like publisher constraints, and the wisdom of not walking into the middle of a peeing contest, particularly when one's livelyhood is involved.