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McAnally's (The Community Pub) => Author Craft => Topic started by: eviladam on August 24, 2007, 03:12:18 AM

Title: Do you fear being influenced?
Post by: eviladam on August 24, 2007, 03:12:18 AM: I'm presentlly working on a science fiction novel and I LOVE sci fi movies, books, games ect. Only now I'm affraid to watch any of it for fear of being influenced. Do you guys have that fear?

Like I think if I watch City on the Edge of Forever from Start Trek TOS something will some how bleed over into my work. Not even any thing overt, but something.
Title: Re: Do you fear being influenced?
Post by: Qualapec on August 24, 2007, 06:09:36 AM: Yes. I'm playing around with a story idea right now. My main character's a wizard and I'm worried about him being too much like Dresden. Or any other urban fantasy hero for that matter.

~She-Wolf
Title: Re: Do you fear being influenced?
Post by: Mickey Finn on August 24, 2007, 11:09:55 AM: Influences happen. They're supposed it, it's part of storytelling.

Stephen King, in his introduction to Harlan Ellison's "Stalking the Nightmare," goes on about "Milk takes on the flavor of whatever it's closest to in the fridge." His best stuff seems to always be written while he's reading Ellison.

Neil Gaiman got famous being influenced by others. Hell, so did Jim.

The trick is to not make it a copy. The REAL trick is to make the influences better than the sum of the parts, which is what Jim does.
Title: Re: Do you fear being influenced?
Post by: meg_evonne on August 24, 2007, 02:31:07 PM: YES. For example I just came up with a great name for a minor character that's perfect, instant reader recognition of the type of puffed up politician, but it just "feels familiar". It's too great to let it go, but I've made it bold and bright RED so if it comes to me that I've kiped a name I can change it... Groan. If it hasn't been used it is ingenious. ;D ;D

Wanna help me remember? It's ... ta dahh "Percival McKinley" He has a flaccid tomato head that wobbles over a portly short body,wears a tie with gravy stains. Winston Churchill without the intelligence and oratory skills, but has instinctive political dexterity. Huhhh... well it doesn't sound all that special now does it? Maybe I should cut and paste over to the "bad writing" thread? :D I do love how it rolls around the tongue though and I look forward to wacking off his his head and letting it roll around the floor a bit...
Title: Re: Do you fear being influenced?
Post by: sights unseen on August 24, 2007, 03:31:55 PM: I did in the beginning, but then I realized that being influenced by good writing is a good thing. I think all authors are influenced by those that came before them. It's only natural and besides, how else are we going to learn to write as well as our favorites if we don't absorb some of the 'flavor' that King and Mickey referred to?

Kelley Armstrong on her message board said she got her idea for her Bitten series by watching an episode of X-Files. And now she's on her 10 book, I think. So wherever you get your influences, if it's a good thing, use it and run with it.

I hope to be heavily influenced by Jim Butcher's and Jack Bickham's scene and sequel writing construction. I've got the stories, what I need and am working on is the structure to put them in.
Title: Re: Do you fear being influenced?
Post by: ihatepeas on August 24, 2007, 05:25:50 PM: I don't think influence is something you should be afraid of. The only time it's a problem is if your work becomes derivative or plagiaristic. And if you're serious about writing, there should be enough people looking at your work (including you) to catch things like that. Influence is good. Influence is part of inspiration. I think if you push away what you love in order to write what you love, you're distancing yourself from it, and that's not good. If you're writing something close to what you're watching/reading, etc., you just need to have your antennae up and pay a bit closer attention to your writing.

--Sarah
Title: Re: Do you fear being influenced?
Post by: Nessus_Wyndestrike on August 24, 2007, 07:28:07 PM: Mmmm. I must agree that I have feared being too "influenced" as it were, by other writers [like Laurell K. Hamilton, most recently with the creation of my own version of the Incubus :-\]. I still do, at times. But you can work through it by engaging yourself in your own brainstorm. I guess.

And avoiding plagiarism. That's a big one too.
Title: Re: Do you fear being influenced?
Post by: Uilos on August 25, 2007, 06:44:52 PM: I am constantly influenced, even without realizing it. My writing shows this. But instead of trying to cover it, I've built in my novel the conceit that people like Tolkien, Herbert, Lukyanenko, even musicians, actors and and others in history, are either a part of the "magical" world or in the Know.

For Instance, I mention that Tokiens Conceit that The Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit are actually translations of the Red Book of Westmarch is actually NOT a conceit

Herbert's wife was a powerful psychic, and most of his material on prescience and seeing the future is based on her beliefs and philosophies.

Lukyanenko wrote Night Watch as a tell-all book about the Russian Branch of an Agency that investigates the "Magical" world. Much like The Jungle was based on the Meat Packing industry.

I do mention JB, that he got the magic right for the most part. I also mention that JK Rowling is way off "She wrote so much about that world, do you honestly think any of us would let her live after that?"
Title: Re: Do you fear being influenced?
Post by: Spectacular Sameth on August 25, 2007, 07:59:51 PM: I'm pretty sure The Dark Tower series was influenced by T.S. Elliot's "The Wasteland," but I mean, the Fisher king stuff and the Dark Tower and all that come way before T.S. Elliot.
Title: Re: Do you fear being influenced?
Post by: Dom on August 25, 2007, 08:27:40 PM: Mickey Finn summed up my own opinion...you're always going to be influenced, and it only becomes an issue when the sum of your influences don't make a whole that's greater than the sum of its parts.

I'll occasionally have a span of a few days where a new great book I just read colors my writing, but eventually I always turn back to my own style, as the majority of the influence 'wears off'. Case in point, I would love to have half the talent Scott Lynch, who wrote The Lies of Locke Lamora, has. But my personal style is, and always has been, closer to Jim Butcher's (even before I read Storm Front for the first time).
Title: Re: Do you fear being influenced?
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on August 26, 2007, 01:05:06 AM: Quote from: Sameth on August 25, 2007, 07:59:51 PM
I'm pretty sure The Dark Tower series was influenced by T.S. Elliot's "The Wasteland," but I mean, the Fisher king stuff and the Dark Tower and all that come way before T.S. Elliot.

Yes, but there's a difference between influenced by and deliberate homage and reference to, and King probably would not have used epigraphs and titles and things from "The Waste Land" if it wasn't deliberate.
Title: Re: Do you fear being influenced?
Post by: eviladam on August 26, 2007, 08:57:31 AM: I just want to make sure it's as original as possible, and not just pieced together from other great sci fi. My big fear is that I'll think it's original and some one will read it and say replace willaim shatner with the guy from seven days and that's your novel. Not that my novel is any thing like either of those shows, just saying.
Title: Re: Do you fear being influenced?
Post by: Uilos on August 26, 2007, 01:31:18 PM: Quote from: eviladam on August 26, 2007, 08:57:31 AM
I just want to make sure it's as original as possible, and not just pieced together from other great sci fi.

Ah, Eragon...
Title: Re: Do you fear being influenced?
Post by: meg_evonne on August 26, 2007, 04:55:12 PM: An interesting quote this morning on PBS. "Creativity does not evolve from nothingness." Creativity evolves from our backgrounds, our morals/ethics, what we have read or seen or felt around us, which transfers to our soul. It is a jumble of mediums and thoughts.

Creativity is not the repetition of another's work.

Yeah, that gray, but you recognize creativity that is unique and that which is copied. The first soars and the second crashes....
Title: Re: Do you fear being influenced?
Post by: Kristine on August 26, 2007, 06:20:11 PM: If you want to check on names or specifics if things ring too familiar try googling the name. Usually there is a fan our there somewhere who has it in a web site or, god forbid, it is an actual person of note that might take offence.

Influence isn't bad if you can make it last for the entirety of the story your writing but it doesn't work if every chapter your influenced by a different book. Don't be afraid to read your work out loud as well. I find that this is one way to catch when you have been thinking faster than you were writing.
Title: Re: Do you fear being influenced?
Post by: skaoi on August 27, 2007, 01:04:38 AM: what a relief to come across this...i know i am influenced and it drives me nuts. nice to see others are as well.

the fact of the matter is that none of us lives in a vacuum and, as already mentioned, a polite nod is one thing and outright plagiarism another.

i was scribbling along and wrote something that seemed so familiar...but i couldn't put my finger on it. co-writer read it and pointed it out, 'um, yeah...that thing we just read...they did that.'

OH. phooey.

<erase, erase, erase>
Title: Re: Do you fear being influenced?
Post by: sights unseen on August 27, 2007, 02:22:07 AM: What drives me crazy is when I'm reading a book and come across a great line or paragraph and think, "Damn, why didn't I think of that?" I see a line or a clever play on words and wish I had written it or it was my original idea.

Oh phooey, she said. :P
Title: Re: Do you fear being influenced?
Post by: eviladam on August 27, 2007, 09:55:02 AM: What I really hate is when I find something I thought of was also thought of by some one else, and published. :(
Title: Re: Do you fear being influenced?
Post by: blgarver on August 27, 2007, 01:12:57 PM: I think being influenced is the nature of being a writer. I mean, you can't learn unless you're influenced by some outside source.

If you're raised Hindu you're entire life, that's what you'll believe, then perhaps when you're out on your own and are exposed to other believes, perhaps you'll take a liking to one of them.

We can't be good writers unless we're influenced by good writing. And, on the other side of the coin, if all we ever read was bad writing, then we'd write nothing but crap.

It's necessary, but I'm not gonna say I like it. Half way through my current book I started reading Gaiman's "Neverwhere" and was quite irked when I discovered my story was painfully similar. But not so much that I stole anything. If anyone reads my book who has read "Neverwhere", however, will most definately be reminded of Gaiman's book.

I guess I'm not gonna complain that I'm thinking like Gaiman.
Title: Re: Do you fear being influenced?
Post by: Mickey Finn on August 27, 2007, 02:22:40 PM: Quote from: sights unseen on August 27, 2007, 02:22:07 AM
What drives me crazy is when I'm reading a book and come across a great line or paragraph and think, "Damn, why didn't I think of that?" I see a line or a clever play on words and wish I had written it or it was my original idea.

Oh phooey, she said. :P

What drives me nuts is having to toss perfectly good ideas because someone else got there first.
Final Destination was one. Idenity was another...and that one hurt. Not just because I was trying to figure out how to do it, but because I was trumped by the guy who wrote killer snowman movies.

And mine was better. *sniff*

I'll write in another decade.
Title: Re: Do you fear being influenced?
Post by: eviladam on August 28, 2007, 05:16:32 AM: Oh that had to hurt. :(
Title: Re: Do you fear being influenced?
Post by: Uilos on August 28, 2007, 05:39:40 AM: Quote from: Mickey Finn on August 27, 2007, 02:22:40 PM
What drives me nuts is having to toss perfectly good ideas because someone else got there first.
Final Destination was one. Idenity was another...and that one hurt. Not just because I was trying to figure out how to do it, but because I was trumped by the guy who wrote killer snowman movies.

And mine was better. *sniff*

I'll write in another decade.

waitaminute...the pok gai, two bit, slasher hack who wrote those POS Jack Frost horror movies and the guy who wrote Identity (a great movie) are the same person!?

Excuse me, I have to find a tall tree and some rope...

But yeah, I've run into that wall before, That's kind of why as I'm writing the story itself (yes, I am free writing mine, it is not as glamourous as Mr King will have you believe) and then figuring out how to tell the story. I find that how you tell the story can set it apart from so many stories that are similar to it.
Title: Re: Do you fear being influenced?
Post by: Mickey Finn on August 28, 2007, 07:59:01 PM: Yep, same guy. I knew from the teaser preview what was going on. My ending was different (as was the killer*), but the rain cutting folks off from leaving was the same, as was a bunch of strangers being forced together in a structure (mine was the gothic classic of a house on a hill...and for those that know the twist in the story, you see why that makes sense ;) )

Hell, it's been a few years, maybe I'll go ahead and write it.

*Spoiler for Identity, don't read if you haven't seen the movie:
(click to show/hide)
My inspiration, years ago, came from studying MPD and wondering what it'd be like for the various personalities as a doctor "pruned" them.
Title: Re: Do you fear being influenced?
Post by: King of De Nile on August 28, 2007, 09:01:10 PM: I used to worry about the originality of my work, but a few things changed my mind. First was my dad, who while we were eating lunch out one day popped out this gem, "Everything that can be written already has been. All you can do is hide it in different wrapping."

And then there's a series of quotes I read one day.

Ralph Waldo Emerson: "Genius borrows nobly."
Michael Caine: "I only steal from the best people."
Pablo Picasso: "Bad artists copy; good artists steal."
T.S.Eliot: "The immature poet imitates; the mature poet plagiarizes."

Kind of lessened my worry, you know? ;D
Title: Re: Do you fear being influenced?
Post by: meg_evonne on August 28, 2007, 09:53:41 PM: I'd argue with your Dad as I think there will never a shortage or true original work out there. Sort of interesting to hear about the duplication of ideas to such specific situations. A little on the spoky side.

On the other hand history repeats itself over and over that when the technology meets a certain criteria/level you will see lots of inventors independently inventing the same technology. Sort of "Life will find a way" theory. One of them gets the credit and the rest are left without any royalties... i've just never thought about it applying to the arts before.
Title: Re: Do you fear being influenced?
Post by: Mickey Finn on August 30, 2007, 11:59:27 AM: Oh, certainly...Jim's stuff is not original*, it's his storytelling ability that blows everyone else out of the water.

*both series are inspired from and drawn from other sources. There's nothing wrong with that, it's part of being human. Hell, it's one of our main strengths.