Regarding the canon Sponsored Magics:
-Summer Magic: Reduce Winter toughness, bypass Immunity to mortal magic, Biomancy at Evocation speed
-Winter Magic: Reduce Summer toughness, bypass Immunity to mortal magic, Entropomancy at Evocation speed
-Hellfire: +1 Stress bonus for everything that deals stress, bypass Immunity to mortal magic
-Kemmlerian Necromancy: various Rituals at Evocation speed, free specializations that stack on top of the pyramid, use specialization bonuses for Evocation with proper justification
-Soulfire: Reduce all toughness, satisfy holy catch, bypass Immunity to mortal magic, all Thaumaturgy at Evocation speed with proper narrative justification.
That part there I did not know. The description is the book is incredible vague. I took Soulfire strictly for the ability to pierce supernatural toughness and for flavor. That makes it much more awesome.
that's why I asked the descriptions are vague, that's one of the problems with the system, games require a bit more rules to make them doable in game. So what I find in games like this is a lot of house rules to clarify things and prevent Omni characters. I almost think some modern version of D&D d20 would almost be better setting for Dresden world.
that's why I asked the descriptions are vague, that's one of the problems with the system, games require a bit more rules to make them doable in game. So what I find in games like this is a lot of house rules to clarify things and prevent Omni characters. I almost think some modern version of D&D d20 would almost be better setting for Dresden world.
that's one of the problems with the system, games require a bit more rules to make them doable in game.Different groups play different games. One group needs strict rules to justify every bit of ununderstanding in the corebook, and another group does not care for the rules, entrusting mechanics to their GM. I have played a D20 Modern urban fantasy game, CWoD crossover chronicle and now a DFRPG campaign, and every game from the list provides entirely different experience and feelings.
Umm...no. At no point was I suggesting that either. I've played a LOT of D20 and I do like it, but I like this system precisely because it is so different. D20 tried to be a light combat sim while this is more of a storytelling aid.Denarians and Harry running around in Hell. I think I'll put money on that.
Soulfire is the only really vague thing and everyone knows why that is. It is still, even now, a largely undefined commodity in the books and therefore nearly impossible to stat in the game. I suspect that we will get a bit more definition to Soulfire in the new book, running around with the Denarians makes it likely that Harry's Soulfire will be a topic of conversation.
With commensurate cost?
All sponsored magic can do one area of thaumaturgy with evocations speed; soulfire can do any thaumaturgy at evocation speed.
So Soulfire doesnt have any added cost over say Hellfire to represent the Soul Fuel it consumes? I havent looked closely at the sponsored stuff in a very long time. I would have assumed it would have some sort of energy/health/life drain effect in addition to whatever was normal for sponsored magics
Soulfire was written before the novels revealed further details about it. As such, it is outdated.
I just don't see where in the rules it says that??
and in thaumaturgic application…well,and
we don’t know really, so for our current purposes
consider it to provide the full range of thaumaturgy
spells (those which are agenda-compatible,
at any rate).
Sometimes the power
source is instead more potent (or at least faster)
when directed against certain types of problems,
such as Summer’s ability to do more potent
healing effects (the sponsor takes care of all that
pesky biological know-how) and the ability to
do certain things with the effects of thaumaturgy,
but at the speed of evocation.
Soulfire writeup doesn't mention "with the methods and speed of evocation" at all, though. It just allows all thaumaturgy to be done with the Sponsored Magic. Which... makes it really not worth -3 for somebody who's already got Evo and Thaum.
I think the using up soul thing is a combination of Compels on Sponsor Debt and taking consequences to power a big spell with it. I don't think it really NEEDS any special mechanics... especially since Harry does cast soulfire spells without noticing anything, so it shouldn't be some extra penalty every time you cast a spell with soulfire.
He sure as hell noticed something the first time he used soulfire, his hand went numb for days. I think it is possible that since he did not know he had soulfire, that first time he did the magical equivalent of "emptying the clip" so to speak. He used far more than was needed for the effect, hence the lasting harm from one spell.
Potential soulfire rewrite to take into account what we've learned since:
SOULFIRE [-4]
Description: You have access to the fires of creation, the same power used by angels.
Sponsor: Heaven, usually via one of the Archangels
Agenda: Exact details are unclear, but seems to be related to creation, the promotion of mortal free will, and perhaps opposing dark and evil forces. May also be connected to faith.
Evocation: Soulfire evocations tend to produce intense, blue-white light. If used as an element, it acts as fire, with a special focus on fire's purifying aspects.
Thaumaturgy: Soulfire thaumaturgy can produce effects related to creation – conjuration, illusions, wards. It can also banish hostile or dark magic.
Evothaum: Soulfire can produce creation-related effects (conjuration, illusions, wards) with the speed of evocation.
Extra Benefits: Soulfire is especially potent when used to create. Conjurations and illusions created with soulfire (including evothaum) gain a +1 complexity and control bonus.
If Soulfire becomes relevant in my game (it might), and I haven't sat down and done a bigger rework of Sponsored Magic as a whole, I think I'm gonna use that rewrite right there (with the possible addition of satisfying at least some "Holy" catches). It feels a lot closer to what we've seen in the books after Small Favor.
I actually love that rewrite, vultur. But what about Soulfire's "degrade all Toughness one level" effect?Harry's had at least one fight with critters that though not vulnerable to "Holy" catches were still affected by Soulfire and had Toughness degraded, so I'd keep that. Nothing at all to do with my own PC possessing it, really. That said, for -5 Refresh, it ought to do that.
That almost begs the question whether or not such a Knight would have Lawbreaker (7th) stunts.
I actually love that rewrite, vultur. But what about Soulfire's "degrade all Toughness one level" effect?
I dont think Soulfire is or should be anything Fire-specific (name notwithstanding) in terms actual effect, though cosmetically its fine. Harry just happens to have used it to juice his Fire evocation a lot more than he has bothered to get very creative/experimental with it. I dont think a water or earth-magic user would have any more or less utility out of it.
They wuldn't. What the fire reference in my rewrite means is that if you have Soulfire and not Evocation, it acts mechanically like Channeling (Fire) when used for evocation. This seemed appropriate to me because of the purifying connection.Thats the bit that doesnt make any sense to me. Any "purification" seems to be just a function of the Holy aspect. But I dont see why a non-fire use of it would give it any of the Fire-specific benefits. Would a Water Wizards Soulfire backed spell offer both the Fire Purification aspect and the Water's Grounding aspect? How about the apparently non-elemental uses, like the Bigsby hand of Smash? I wouldnt have expected that to have any "Purification" effects.
Thats the bit that doesnt make any sense to me. Any "purification" seems to be just a function of the Holy aspect. But I dont see why a non-fire use of it would give it any of the Fire-specific benefits.
Would a Water Wizards Soulfire backed spell offer both the Fire Purification aspect and the Water's Grounding aspect? How about the apparently non-elemental uses, like the Bigsby hand of Smash? I wouldnt have expected that to have any "Purification" effects.
In evocation, soulfire functions most like the element of fire (though it’s possible other element equivalents may exist).
But it is also worth noting that the Magically Purifying aspect of Fire is supposed to be an effect of non-magical fire, not everything Harry slings.
That depends whether he was a wizard prior and if he took the mantle willingly.
It is my earnest belief that everything can be a PC. That said, imagine the interactions of a Warden with an Outsider Knight: they would be too busy killing off each other to care about the campaign :P .
As I read in the thread the extra benefit would be more appropriate to spec it as hellfire. And why only psychomancy gets Evothaum? Is there a rule that we can't put more than one Evothaum? Seems wierd.
Aren't the Outsider pure evil though? I mean,They are asymetrical, foreign, and Organized. Thats about all we know so far. I think it was said that they once ruled here and want it back, but I cant recall where to know how reliable a source that was..(click to show/hide)
Aren't the Outsider pure evil though?(click to show/hide)
Not precisly. The medics were Summer.(click to show/hide)
The fire reference explains what it does if you don't have Evocation also.