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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: cold_breaker on March 26, 2013, 02:01:48 PM

Title: GM resources?
Post by: cold_breaker on March 26, 2013, 02:01:48 PM
Hey guys, I'm a newbie GM and I'm trying to figure out some GM resources for myself. Let me explain.

While writing my first campaign, I have plenty of ideas, but one criticism I have of the books is it doesn't exactly give you the best resources for organizing those ideas. I've tried emulating the formats of the pre-made stuff, but I find in my experience that for most non-canned adventures, that's actually a terrible format. In an open world (e.g. anything you make in the fate system) it's almost better to just generate the facts, and fill in the details during game play.

So, my thoughts are thus: I'll make several forms: one for NPCs (basically a compact character sheet that I can fill out as much of or as little of as I see fit) a location form and possibly an event / scene form.

The NPC form will be a one page sheet where you can fill in name, concept, aspects, powers, stunts, etc. Basically a charactor sheet compressed down to 2/3rds of a page, and leave a space for a paragraph summary so you can make notes about someones attitudes or personality, or for short term npcs just write out their basic actions during a conflict.

The location sheet will need a name and have a fairly big box to sketch the layout of a location (like a floorplan of an apartment, or a map of a park) - bigger areas can always be drawn out seperate and attached instead. It'll have a place for a concept and 2-3 aspects and a large area for points of interest - I imagine using this for things like natural obstacles someone might use in a fight or clues that the scene might have... I'll probably also leave a small box for about a paragraph of notes. I think my tactic for large buildings will be to break them into smaller locations and improvise for the ones that don't have anything of note in them.

Finally, I will have an event / scene form. This will be for the events that I'm fairly sure will happen in some form (the players can theoretically derail anything, but if the NPCs are planning something, this is where I plan out the details.) This sheet I'm having the hardest time with though: I'll probably give it a name or something for my use, and as always a few slots for aspects (probably more than locations get since NPCs might have made some preperations) - I'm thinking I'm going to give an area to list possible locations that could 'host' said event (e.g. this could happen in the park, 8th street warehouse, etc. depending on what's appropriate) and another for involved NPCs (which can always be tweaked depending on how appropriate things are) and obviously a fairly large area to describe what exactly is supposed to go on...

So, any thoughts? I'd love some feedback from experienced GMs and scenario writers - anything I should add to these forms that I haven't listed? Another type of form I should create that I haven't already thought of maybe?
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: S1C0 on March 26, 2013, 04:08:58 PM
try random encounter flash cards flip a card get an encounter anything from a drive by shooting to a small white bunny that incites you to follow it, and a bit of the old cheap dry erase boards for the aspects/floor-plan if you do not like paper and remember in any rpg the pcs are prone to over-thinking way too much so, do not go to crazy defining stuff half the fun is in seeing if the look for the treasure you spent hours stating and hiding in a very specific way and , further remember they can make declarations based on the available variables. that's about all i got without knowing the Campaign type you were after
ie: hack and slash , adventure into realms unknown , day to day grind , post apocalyptic wasteland.   
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: cold_breaker on March 26, 2013, 05:10:49 PM
I'm not looking for random encounter style posts or a campaign made for me. I'm looking for an appropriate way to organize my own (personally made) campaign. Ideally, it would provide me with a way of remembering to generate the little details I might not think of when I'm just brainstorming the story (such as additional clues and such)

Basically, my understanding of GMing DFRPG is you need to create the environment and a problem, and let your players sort it out (making sure you have some default ways to do so). An example of this is building a haunted house with clues and angry ghosts in it, and then throwing your players into it and seeing what happens. I want a way to remember the parts that are actually required (the environments, the npcs, and theoretically any larger events I would like to happen)
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: S1C0 on March 26, 2013, 05:23:48 PM
opps sorry still new at this posting bit try one of those multifold portfolio folder with the tabs marked clearly on the key word or however you remember the specific setting, and your earlier idea does seem pretty sound ,also try a rule of three format like Encounter Environment Enemy  it could help keep your paper trail down to just 3 pages if you hand write thus making it easier to keep accounting for stuff
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: Haru on March 26, 2013, 05:26:03 PM
Well, I think you'll need to find your own way. For myself, I would find sheets of paper like you suggest far to large and clunky. I prefer index cards for that.

You don't have to write down every detail in advance. More often than not, your players will throw you a curveball, and you'll be much more flexible, if you keep an open mind. Flesh out your main NPCs just like the PCs are. If you know how they are going to act and what their goals are, you can react to how the PCs foil those plans.
Keep any other NPCs a bit broader, so the players can declare around on them a bit. A guard who suddenly (as in has always had, but it is suddenly revealed) has a "gambling addiction" is only possible, if you make it so.
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: S1C0 on March 26, 2013, 05:38:24 PM
[quote/] A guard who suddenly (as in has always had, but it is suddenly revealed) has a "gambling addiction" is only possible, if you make it so.
[/quote]


i agree and say +1 to Haru good advice and example
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: Sanctaphrax on March 26, 2013, 09:51:36 PM
Dunno if this is exactly what you're looking for, but I've got a character sheet I'm very fond of. Use it if you like.

Here's a blank sheet:

(click to show/hide)

Head over to the Generic NPC thread on the resource board if you want to see this sheet in action.

(You'll notice that sometimes the sheet is altered somewhat to accommodate information about spellcasting and other such things. But the basic template doesn't change.)
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: Lavecki121 on March 30, 2013, 11:16:31 PM
Not sure if this is the best thread for it but I didn't feel like making a new thread, I was making a single challenging opponent for my group of PC and the rules say to spend 1&1/2 of total refresh on powers on your NPC, that would make the refresh to spend 30 though. Is that right or am I reading the rules wrong. There are five PC s and they have all don't four refresh on powers
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: Haru on March 30, 2013, 11:20:29 PM
Sounds about right. Though keep in mind, that the fight will probably still be over quite quickly. Either because you oneshot everything (20 points of refresh anyone?) or because your characters just have the bad guy outactioned 5:1. You could go with some zone attack powers or even scene attack powers (aura of despair or something similar). Or you could split those 30 refresh up into multiple characters. 20+5+5 for example, and it will be a much different fight.
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: Lavecki121 on March 31, 2013, 12:57:19 AM
True, thanks. Just wanted to make sure I did it right.
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: fantazero on March 31, 2013, 02:31:56 AM
Example Thug
High Concept: Gang Member
Skills All +2
Stress
Mental ( ) ( )
Physical ( ) ( )
Social ( )

Example Mini Boss Bad guy
High Concept
Trouble
Aspect
+4 everything
Stress ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Mental( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Physical ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
Social
Mild
Mild
Mod

But most details can be filled in during play, it's not like you want to write out a book. Because
1. You're characters won't ever do what you expect
2. No one wants to play in your novel

Honestly you can just "wing it" as you go
Never understood why people spent so much time planning
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: Sanctaphrax on March 31, 2013, 03:16:33 AM
Not sure if this is the best thread for it but I didn't feel like making a new thread, I was making a single challenging opponent for my group of PC and the rules say to spend 1&1/2 of total refresh on powers on your NPC, that would make the refresh to spend 30 though. Is that right or am I reading the rules wrong. There are five PC s and they have all don't four refresh on powers

Don't take those rules too seriously. They don't work especially well as anything more than a loose guideline.
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: Taran on March 31, 2013, 06:39:22 PM
I'm a bit of a scatter brain and so I usually organize my notes by scene.  I can usually squeeze 2 or three scenes on a regular sheet of lined paper.
***
Like this:

Scene 1:  Wendyll Sacks' House:
     NPC's :  Wendyll Sacks; John Black; Paula Sammuel

Aspects: Warm and comfy seats; Crackling fire
  - Wendyll tells Sindy about the boats coming in
                 People have gone missing
                 One of the boats have disappeared
    -Compel on Sindy's aspect "loyalty to family"?
  - Blah blah.

Scene 2:  The Docks

***
It's easier for me to break it down like that and have Short version of each NPC (like the ones presented in this thread on a peice of paper organized by scene.  (so one sheet of paper for the 3 NPC's in that scene.)  Otherwise I forget stuff that I wanted to mention...mostly info I need to advance the plot.  And I jot down a few compels that might be relevant for the scene and may come up....in case I can't think of any on the fly.

Edit: 
also, as things get added to the city, I compile it on Obsidian Portal.  It's been super helpful.  Especially with PbP games and Skype games where everyone can access and modify the their info/characters and city stuff.

I've printed out the cheat sheet from the book that includes the Ladder and the difficulties, which is super helpful and I have a sheet of paper with every aspect in the campaign organized by category (city level; character level; NPC's; Locations) So I have a quick reference for compels.
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: fantazero on March 31, 2013, 06:59:37 PM
I've never felt the need to "plan" what scenes will be in a game.
it feels like rail roading to me (a pet peeve)

GM You find out people are missing at the docks?
Character I'll roll my Contacts see if I know anyone at the docks,  (+8) I do, I'll just call them.

or
GM you find out people are missing at the docks
Character "Why would we care about that? Right now we have to blah blah blah"

or
GM you find out people are missing at the docks
Character "I think I know someone at the docks (Rolls a -4) Nope.

Or during play the GM causes two character to get mad at each other
Character 1. There is time for the docks later, but first a duel at the park in an hour, my honor will be satsified
Character 2. Deal
I guess what i'm saying is, the next scene doesn't have to be at the docks. 
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: Taran on March 31, 2013, 07:19:30 PM
Yeah, hence the outline instead of a detailed run-down.  The players usually tell me where they want to go BEFORE the game session.  They say,

"we need to talk to Wendyll Sacks", "we want to investigate the Docks" etc..

I then do an outline for each of those places so I'm prepared.  While I like doing things with rolls, my players tend role-play things out instead of just do a contacts roll - and besides not everything can be done with a roll...for instance:

GM you find out people are missing at the docks
Character "I think I know someone at the docks (Rolls a -4) Nope.

Character: huh...maybe we should go down and talk to people.

*****

I don't like rail-roading either.  I'm happy we agree.

EDIT:  also, just because I wrote #2 beside the docs it doesn't mean that's going to be the second place they'll go...It's just a list...
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: Haru on March 31, 2013, 07:22:08 PM
But then you would have let the docks out. *ducks away*

No, you're right. It doesn't really make that much sense to lay out the entire plot scene by scene, but it does make sense to plan key parts of the story. So even if the dock is not the next scene, if you are playing a story about people missing at the docks, most certainly, at some point, you will go to the docks. And since things can (don't have to) develop at the pace of plot, the same scene can unfold now or three days later.
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: Taran on March 31, 2013, 07:25:08 PM
You'll note the edit in my last post.  It's just a random list of scenes (that the PC's told me they were going to do in advance).  You don't have to do it in order....you just run the scene when the PC's decide to go there.
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: Haru on March 31, 2013, 07:29:57 PM
That was meant as a reply to fantazero, without actually reading your reply in between first, sorry.
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: fantazero on March 31, 2013, 07:35:41 PM
I completely agree.

I'm still getting over a series of bad Dresden games, and I tend to be biased  ;)

The reason I like contact rolls, is because of the outcome.
Gm- Oh you rolled a -2 well you do know this one guy at the docks, you think is name is Rick? and he works at the hot dog stand?
-Party arrives at the docks
Gm - OH NOW YOU REMEMBER Rick is the Troll that lives UNDER the docks and ate that guy at the hot dog stand.

Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: Haru on March 31, 2013, 07:38:04 PM
Awesome idea, thank you for that  ;D
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: fantazero on March 31, 2013, 07:43:27 PM
Awesome idea, thank you for that  ;D
poor Hot dog stand guy....

its not "exactly" my idea, its sorta kinda Leonard Balsera's. I heard him on a Podcast talking about how Rolls should MEAN something, good or bad.
I've seen a lot of GMs use failure rolls as a dead end, when they don't need to be.
Lazy Gm"you rolled -2, you don't know anyone"
boo, hiss, thats boring.

You can do the same with magic (and it might say this in the book)

You want to throw a fire ball. You roll a -2 on Conviction (?) whatever you use to control your fireball.
That doesn't mean it's a failure, it just mean you have no control on where that fireball went
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: Haru on March 31, 2013, 07:53:59 PM
I absolutely agree. But a stray fireball is easier to come up with than a hot dog vendor eating troll. Or anything like it, for that matter. Opens up a new way to deal with those things for me.
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: fantazero on March 31, 2013, 09:12:59 PM
I absolutely agree. But a stray fireball is easier to come up with than a hot dog vendor eating troll. Or anything like it, for that matter. Opens up a new way to deal with those things for me.

really I just made that up while writing the paragraph.
Seat of your pants!

I say it's a skill some people need to hone. I suggest playing the game "Fiasco" as a way to sharpen the seat of your pants fun.
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: Haru on March 31, 2013, 09:21:14 PM
I say it's a skill some people need to hone. I suggest playing the game "Fiasco" as a way to sharpen the seat of your pants fun.
I absolutely agree, that's why I'm so happy. I think I am quite good at this when it comes to physical skills, but on others, I often draw a blank.
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: Lavecki121 on April 01, 2013, 02:41:07 AM
Baron munchausens (sp?) is also a good seat of your pants game
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: fantazero on April 01, 2013, 05:03:29 AM
Baron munchausens (sp?) is also a good seat of your pants game
better if youre drinking
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: cold_breaker on April 02, 2013, 08:53:03 PM
Hehe, slightly derailed, but I like the line of thought.

My hope (I'm a newb at DMing) is that by making these forms, I can make a very unconstrained story, free of railroading. When I have tried to write them before, I end up righting paragraphs of what's happening and end up with all sorts of preconceived ideas of how it'll all play out. Instead, I'm hoping it'll be something like this:

I have X number of NPCs mapped out - Some are people who's plans are integral to the story, some are just mildly statted out mooks that I can throw at the party for fights, and the rest are talking heads - NPCs who provide clues, red hairings or simply depth to a scene. I can't control my players actions, but I can control everyone else. The bad guy has an agenda and a plan: it's his job to figure out how best to keep it on track, and my job to figure out how he'll do so.

Next up is the locations: these are essentially there to provide a setting for your plot. My hope is that by having a form, it'll force me to consider some best practices to provide locations that are a little more fleshed out and feel like the world is a little more real. This might provide clues as well (such as a crime scene) but even if it's mr. and mrs. Mook's house, I'd still like there to be something to describe, both from a descriptive perspective and from a tactical one (like a chandelier, or a secret passage, or even a steep hill that could provide a barrier in a chase scene)

Finally, the event form. This will be for major plotline events that I expect to occur - my reasoning for these is generally that although it's possible for the PCs to unravel them, they probably wont due to either having no idea that they're going to happen, or that one or more of the NPCs is actively working to make this event happen. These will likely be things like 'the kidnapping of important NPC A' or 'the sudden but inevitable reveal of the traitor' or even events the PCs have told you they're actively working towards - like 'standoff with X big baddy.' These forms are meant to help flesh out the actual story, but are meant to be flexible - suggesting possible locations to occur and alternate ways they might unfold.

My hope is that I can translate all the important plot points into these three forms: in this way I get away from describing how the players get from points A to point B and be ready to improvise that part, while still having a fleshed out world to do so in (as opposed to locations that get a brief description and are never taken into consideration again, or NPCs who'se personalities change more and more as they get less important.

I imagine using these by printing them out and sorting them into 2 binders - one for long term use (like NPCs and locations created in setting creation, or else added after the fact because of events) and one for the immediate story. Each will sort by type, with all the npcs lumped together, then locations and events at the back.
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: Taran on April 02, 2013, 11:26:31 PM
Have you done city building with your group?  If you did this, many of your NPC's and Locations would be done, at least as an outline.
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: fantazero on April 03, 2013, 02:34:17 AM
Have you done city building with your group?  If you did this, many of your NPC's and Locations would be done, at least as an outline.
yep
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: cold_breaker on April 03, 2013, 01:52:39 PM
Have you done city building with your group?  If you did this, many of your NPC's and Locations would be done, at least as an outline.

Not sure if you're referring to me, but yep as well. This little project of mine is to help expand on that, and transition from the city creation to the story creation. I'm doing this because I feel what I have so far isn't quite robust enough to feel real - The laws of reality are in place, but the details are still a little too flexible yet to feel like an actual game. Instead it feels like I'm making up a story as I go along, and while my players might not notice, it bothers me and takes away from my fun.

At the same time, I don't want to go too far and put the whole game on rails either, which is a real concern for me as well. So, I'm trying to come up with a way to better define the players in my story - a system where I can firmly say 'this is what I'm in control of and this is what I'm not'. The point is to create a challenge for not only my players (which I could do just by improvising) but for myself.

Sounds like I'm inventing a ruleset to make story creation a minigame for myself I guess. Not sure if I've worded this quite right, but hopefully other GMs get what I'm saying. lol
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: fantazero on April 03, 2013, 04:19:17 PM
Not sure if you're referring to me, but yep as well. This little project of mine is to help expand on that, and transition from the city creation to the story creation. I'm doing this because I feel what I have so far isn't quite robust enough to feel real - The laws of reality are in place, but the details are still a little too flexible yet to feel like an actual game. Instead it feels like I'm making up a story as I go along, and while my players might not notice, it bothers me and takes away from my fun.

At the same time, I don't want to go too far and put the whole game on rails either, which is a real concern for me as well. So, I'm trying to come up with a way to better define the players in my story - a system where I can firmly say 'this is what I'm in control of and this is what I'm not'. The point is to create a challenge for not only my players (which I could do just by improvising) but for myself.

Sounds like I'm inventing a ruleset to make story creation a minigame for myself I guess. Not sure if I've worded this quite right, but hopefully other GMs get what I'm saying. lol

I think managing everyones Aspects, City Aspects, The Magic System, Social Mental and Physical Combat should be enough to challenge yourself.

Also I'm still not sure, but did you and your players get together and do city creation? That should give you like what? a Dozen NPCs and Plot threads?
Could you post what you have?
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: cold_breaker on April 04, 2013, 02:44:37 PM
We do. I'm not going to post it all (it's a lot to type up) but the gist of it is that the area we picked (southern Ontario) is on a system of lay lines that are "Fractured" by the influence of the great lakes, resulting in the 'fractured cities' - essentially this spiderweb of small lay lines that are actually counter-productive to magic in the traditional sense. This leads to major effects on several groups: Mortal practitioners who are not acclimitized to the effect find themself seriously handicapped, but the locals have learned to deal (kinda like people in mountinous areas acclimitize themselves to thinner climates) - the effects of the fairy courts are diluted, so many wild fae choose to live here, resulting in a large population of fairy scions and some changelings (I've decided that the fracture also tends to make scions more likely then normal.) Finally, there's a large population of Were's (werewolves, wererabits, werecayotes, and anything else that  exists here geographically)

Conversely, we also have a threat of old vs. new. The basic idea of this is that we have a major tech center here along with multiple universities creating a new generation of highly technical, intelligent and informed kids that are butting heads with the extremely powerful, secretive and influential Mennonite population. Basically, the Mennonites have secretly been controlling politics in the region since it has settled and their particular brand of influence is the reason we've never had a problem with major crime... and thanks to the new generation, for better or for worse this status quo is in jeopardy. Although the mennonites are pure mortal, they have a paramilitary wing - the Jagers. They're the theoretically defunct german hunting groups that are secretly still going strong: hunting paranormal threats that get out of hand, mostly the local Were's that get out of hand...

Theme: Breeding ground for mediocrity
Threat: The Fracture
Threat: Old school vs. New school

I'll leave it at that. We do of course have Faces defined for each of these groups, although only a high aspect for each is defined at the moment, as well as basic locations. I'm also summarizing quite a bit: there's a lot of political intricacies that my players will discover over time: some of which will be freely given, others will be shown during adventure gradually.

That said, it's not the setting itself I have issues with. It's more being able to generate the adventure. I already have ideas and places to start as you can hopefully tell, it's filling in the details these forms will help with. For example, playing my first scene in our first adventure, I intended to do an intro to combat that involved my players hanging out at the local Universities when they're ambushed by a group of local Jagers trying to catch a girl who has come to them for help. I quickly learned to improvise quite a bit to get through this scene in ways I do not like (layout of the classroom for instance? Athletics rolls by the mooks to break through the windows? What the innocent bystanders do/are capable of doing to help? Possible suggestions for compels I could use if I'm out of ideas during play?) All of these things seem like things I could have better thought up before play. As well, I found myself feeling extremely disorganized - which notepad did I write out stats for Mook B on again? Where did I write out my players aspects so I can think up compels? Crap.

That said, I have a basic first draft of these PDFs set up. I'm going to crean it up a bit and post my first version here for people to look over, and possibly for other new GMs to try. I will hopefully have something to show after this weekend.
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: fantazero on April 04, 2013, 06:54:30 PM
" I quickly learned to improvise quite a bit to get through this scene in ways I do not like (layout of the classroom for instance?"
What does a classroom look like? Like a classroom? Is their a fire extinguisher in there? Roll me notice or give me a fate point
 Athletics rolls by the mooks to break through the windows?
Or Fists, or Weapons, Or whatever makes sense
 What the innocent bystanders do/are capable of doing to help?
Whatever you want them to do. Or if the players can convince them to help.
 Possible suggestions for compels I could use if I'm out of ideas during play?
I print out a list of my players Aspects so I can look at them
 All of these things seem like things I could have better thought up before play.
You couldn't have thought of all that before hand, and if you TRY to think of everything you tend to get tunnel vision on what you "expect" to happen *Quick story at the end*  As well, I found myself feeling extremely disorganized - which notepad did I write out stats for Mook B on again? Where did I write out my players aspects so I can think up compels? Crap." It's a skill, you have to realize you are playing the game they are playing, and then playing another game above the one they are playing.


So Some ideas
I basically have 3 Mooks drawn up for ANYTHING

Bad
Big Bad
Big Bad Boss

Big
+ (Fill in the blank)  on all Skills, which skills? Yes. Basically i don't have time to counter every single player ect. So, for a "throw-away" mortal character.
Stress Box ( ) ( )
Mild_____
Maybe 1 Fate point?

And then Big Bad, and Big bad Boss depend on your game.
In a Dresden game, just grab a villain from the book Our World and go wild. Your NPC doesn't have to "make sense" game wise. So he can have +7 on some things and nothing at +1.
I do have an issue with Black Court Vampires having Fate Points  (same thing with Werewolves and such)

If you need a Map for a Classroom, draw it.
What I did for a game  was just have each player draw a map on graph paper of a location.
Player 1, draw your characters house, Player 2, Draw the fair ground you hang out at, Player 3 draw that school where you killed that vampire.
I might not use any or all of those maps, but I keep them, and sometimes they show up later.


I also use a Dry Erase Board (like the kind you see on your fridge, you can get them at Target for like 5 bucks) and I keep track of Scene Aspects on that, and then i make another one which is for Mooks and such.

*Quick story
So in a Dresden game I was in, our GM had this Black Court Vampire that had been pushing our buttons for Half a year (In REAL TIME) so when it was time to meet the BCV my Character shot her. The GM was blown away, why would we shoot her? He didn't think that we would 1. Want to Fight with a character so powerful, and 2. He hadn't prepared for a Fight. Which was foolish of him, this BCV had been a Pain in our butt for a loooooong time, she was evil, and my character had a rep for being a loose cannon. 
The GM started to throw a fit that we were derailing his game, but I guess realized how stupid that sounded, and we beat the Black Court Vampire (She turned into mist, and our wizard turned it into Ice, and she fell like 60 Stories)
The point, you can't plan for what Players will do, because what seems logical to you, could be illogical to the player in game and out of game

Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: cold_breaker on April 04, 2013, 08:44:05 PM
I don't think we're disagreeing on this, although perhaps you're worried about my proposed method. But let me answer point by point:

Quote
What does a classroom look like? Like a classroom? Is their a fire extinguisher in there? Roll me notice or give me a fate point

I don't like the idea of giving too much control of the scene to the players. After all, what's the fun in running the game if you can't describe the scenery? Giving players a declaration for something that'd have a good chance of being there is one thing, but letting them describe what the room looks like is another. Also, it leads to some metagaming abuses as well - the GM didn't describe anything, so there's obviously nothing important here. There are more extreme abuses that could be pulled off, but I'm not particularly worried about that.

Or Fists, or Weapons, Or whatever makes sense

Agreed. Even so, I should have expected/planned my NPCs method of attack better. I think this was just inexperience either way though.

Whatever you want them to do. Or if the players can convince them to help.

It'd have been nice if I had actually written up some default NPC stats is what I was getting at, and having them on hand at a moments notice.

I print out a list of my players Aspects so I can look at them

Every game I've played, I've had a list handy. However, to a newb GM, it'd be better to spend a little time brainstorming some compels to use as part of your story. It makes it easier to predict the characters actions and plan around how the players might actually react. For instance, in the going off the rails example you gave, your GM could have used the loose cannon aspect of your charactor and compelled you to do exactly what you did, and then planned out a result.

You couldn't have thought of all that before hand, and if you TRY to think of everything you tend to get tunnel vision on what you "expect" to happen *Quick story at the end*  

I'm not trying to think of everything. I am trying to provide myself with a guideline of the minimum amount of preperation for each scene. I can't predict how players will overcome a challange, but I can brainstorm up what tools they have available to them, as well as what those challenging them have as tools as well.

It's a skill, you have to realize you are playing the game they are playing, and then playing another game above the one they are playing.

Yup. And to play both games, a little organization will go a long way. ;p

I get what you're trying to say, but I think you're being a little over zelous assuming that planning = overplanning. I think it's more an exercise of what you plan vs. How much you plan. What I mean is if you plan out what a place will look like and some default clues, you're fine. It only becomes an issue when you're planning how the players will find those clues and what they have to do with them that it becomes an issue. It a thin line to walk... with is why I'm coming up with guidelines to help walk it :p

Again though, I think we're on the same page, you're just misinterpreting my intentions. I'm basicly just trying to set up guidelines to do exactly what you suggest - have default stats I can fall back on, sometimes to improvise, sometimes because I was hoping the story would turn out this way. I'm just saying I want to do it on a story by story basis, but otherwise I'm planning exactly what you're saying.

This'll be soo much easier once I've completed my first story with the group and can describe the plot - how much I've planned out and how I deal with curveballs my players throw. lol
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: polkaneverdies on April 04, 2013, 11:20:05 PM
Planning is nice, but there are easy options here when something unexpected crops up.
Check out the generic npc's thread on the resource board here if you need npc stats on the fly.
Sanctaphrax and many others have made a very helpful list.
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: Sanctaphrax on April 05, 2013, 05:22:16 AM
I find that I improvise better when I have something planned. Even if my plan gets completely derailed, the time spent thinking about it helps me respond to what my players do.
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: cold_breaker on April 05, 2013, 04:35:42 PM
I find that I improvise better when I have something planned. Even if my plan gets completely derailed, the time spent thinking about it helps me respond to what my players do.

This is what I'm trying to get at.

Plus, if you flesh out the plans for stuff you don't expect to happen, like the details of X NPC that technically exists but isn't involved with the story, you have more to work with when they're surprisingly pulled into the story.
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: fantazero on April 05, 2013, 09:37:51 PM
as long as you don't try to shoe horn that into the scene, I think it's fine.
I work better without planning. I've just seen a lot of railroading and it seems to be a common "theme" in RPGs
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: fantazero on April 06, 2013, 04:57:50 PM
Oh and about Player Maps.
If you ask someone to draw a school room, and the throw in a weapons locker and a nuclear reactor, thats where you as the GM step in and go "come on". But a school room is a school room, a banks a bank. If you have something really awesome, draw a map of that, but I think it helps players invest in the game. Also if they have a hang out like a bar or something, let them draw that, put scene aspects ect because it cuts down on the "burn it down' factor. Hey OTHER PC dont burn down the bar we spent 45 minutes on!

My suggestion, next game, do it the way I said, then the next game do it the way you are saying, compare/contrast. Whats the worst that can happen?

My way
Zero prep before game time
Show up for the game, maybe ask the players some questions about their childhood, background, inter party relationships, how they feel about events going on in game "how does you character react to McCoy stealing the Mantle of Power from the Jade Court?" and just roll with it.

This is how I see it.
When I was a kid my friend and me played Duke Nukem 3d alllll the time, I loved that game, it was 3d, it was cursing, it was amazing.
So when he got this "Duke Nukem 3d level editor" book from Half Price books, my mind was blown.
Sadly, It was like finding out Santa wasn't real. Why? Because I realized stuff like enemys were spawned when you enter certain rooms, it didn't matter where you hit them, just as long as you hit them ect.
So when I hear people talking about drawing up maps of the dungeon/school/whatever they are going to fight in, I just think of Duke Nukem, and how it didn't matter if I snuck into that room/or how monsters were going to Spawn into it, regardless.
With a video game, no matter how good, only so many things can happen, in an RPG ANYTHING can happen. I just see planning like this as limiting your ability to do anything.
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: Taran on April 08, 2013, 12:57:37 AM
Try the scene thing I mentionned.  See how it goes for you.  It's really just a point-form layout and you'd have the NPC's either completely pre-statted or summarized - whatever you prefer.  As long as you have a relative idea as to where the PC's might be going before-hand.

If the session doesn't take you there, you can still use that prep for any time they do go there, although the NPC's might change.  Then that prep doesn't go to waste.

Because it's point form it gives you a good guild-line yet allows you as much flexibility as you need.  Like I mentionned, I always jot down a list of potential compels for the PC's ahead of time.  You might not use them, but if you're stuck and want to compel, you can use them, or if you don't they might give you ideas on the spot.

Anyways, it works for me because I get all befuddled when put on the spot, so I need a cheat-sheet to keep things smooth.
Title: Re: GM resources?
Post by: cold_breaker on April 08, 2013, 03:12:01 PM
Oh and about Player Maps.
If you ask someone to draw a school room, and the throw in a weapons locker and a nuclear reactor, thats where you as the GM step in and go "come on". But a school room is a school room, a banks a bank. If you have something really awesome, draw a map of that, but I think it helps players invest in the game. Also if they have a hang out like a bar or something, let them draw that, put scene aspects ect because it cuts down on the "burn it down' factor. Hey OTHER PC dont burn down the bar we spent 45 minutes on!

My suggestion, next game, do it the way I said, then the next game do it the way you are saying, compare/contrast. Whats the worst that can happen?

My way
Zero prep before game time
Show up for the game, maybe ask the players some questions about their childhood, background, inter party relationships, how they feel about events going on in game "how does you character react to McCoy stealing the Mantle of Power from the Jade Court?" and just roll with it.

This is how I see it.
When I was a kid my friend and me played Duke Nukem 3d alllll the time, I loved that game, it was 3d, it was cursing, it was amazing.
So when he got this "Duke Nukem 3d level editor" book from Half Price books, my mind was blown.
Sadly, It was like finding out Santa wasn't real. Why? Because I realized stuff like enemys were spawned when you enter certain rooms, it didn't matter where you hit them, just as long as you hit them ect.
So when I hear people talking about drawing up maps of the dungeon/school/whatever they are going to fight in, I just think of Duke Nukem, and how it didn't matter if I snuck into that room/or how monsters were going to Spawn into it, regardless.
With a video game, no matter how good, only so many things can happen, in an RPG ANYTHING can happen. I just see planning like this as limiting your ability to do anything.

Well, that much is just style preferences I think. Everyone enjoys a different aspect of gaming a little more than the rest, whether that aspect is the storytelling, the strategy, playing a niche role, or simply smashing things. I prefer the storytelling, so for enjoyment purposes coming up with the scene is an investment for me, even if it might be more work. Basicly, I'm a writer at heart and while I like having players who have free will, I also like controlling the story and watching players have 'ah ha!' moments.