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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Sanctaphrax on August 31, 2012, 03:25:57 AM
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I mentioned a while back that I was planning a project to give this game a set of solid rules for possession.
As it turns out, that requires revising Demonic Co-Pilot and Domination.
So here goes.
The issues with Demonic Co-Pilot are well-known.
I plan to fix them by having the demon make only one attack per scene, with a strength that depends on the number of times you called upon it for a +1 bonus. If you get taken out, it inflicts a debt compel or messes with your Aspects.
Domination isn't all that badly written, but it could use some more definition. How long does it take to dominate someone? What does dominating someone do? And what, if anything, stops a character with Mediocre Discipline from wearing down one with Epic Discipline over time?
This rewrite is supposed to make all that clear. Also I'm planning to make Master Dominator better and more versatile, because it's pretty lame as is.
Possession doesn't really have any rules, as it stands. The main point of this project is to change that.
This is quite a big job, because there are like five different types of possession to cover. Each needs its own Power.
First, there's possessing scenery in order to affect physical things. The Power for this will closely resemble KOFFEYKID'S Possess Corpse Power.
Second, there's possessing willing allies and giving them a boost, Shaman King style. The Power for this will resemble the Mind Meld Power that's on the master list.
Third, there's possessing willing allies and using their body as your own. Harry does this a couple of times. The Power for this will be similar to the upgrade for my Spirit Form rewrite.
Fourth, there's possessing unwilling targets and becoming a corrupting influence in the back of their minds. The Power for this will involve winning a mental conflict in order to become an Aspect on the target. Once you're an Aspect, you can make a mental attack each scene to corrupt them as they make a mental attack to eject you. With an upgrade, you can do the Demonic Co-Pilot thing.
Fifth, there's possessing unwilling targets and taking over. Have a mental conflict, if you win you get an effect similar to the third type of possession. The target can attempt to free itself every once in a while, and whenever you use its body to do something diametrically opposed to its nature.
I'm still not totally sure how to treat animals. Are they scenery or characters?
Other than that, I think the plan's pretty good. If it's somehow flawed or incomplete, this is a good time to point that out.
Watch this thread, the Powers will be going up as I finish them. All seven of them.
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SPIRITUAL CO-PILOT [-1]
Description: A spirit dwells inside you, granting you power in exchange for control over you. Draw upon it too heavily, and you may become its puppet.
Musts: You must have an Aspect reflecting your spiritual partner. If you act against your Co-Pilot's agenda, a Compel may deny you access to this Power.
Skills Affected: Discipline, others.
Effects:
Spiritual Power. Whenever you use a skill, you may add one to it.
The Struggle For Control. At the end of any scene in which you use the Spiritual Power trapping, you suffer a mental attack. The accuracy of this mental attack is equal to your skill cap plus the number of times you used Spiritual Power in that scene, and it has no weapon rating. Stress and consequences taken from this attack do not begin to heal until you go a full session without using Spiritual Power. If this attack takes you out, you receive a Compel as though you had taken a point of Sponsor Debt. Alternately, the GM may choose to alter one of your permanent Aspects.
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Looks pretty good, couple of points though.
From reading the synopsis it looks like Spiritual Power is adding 1 to the ranking of the skill rather than 1 to the result of the roll, is this intentional? (not sure this would really make a difference - but it seems to be what it implies).
I'd add in something about specifying whether the Spiritual Power effect is invoked before or after the roll is made (it would be much more effective if applied after the roll, but thematically one would likely call upon the powers of your possessing spirit prior to attempting an action).
The last worry I have is the "stress and consequences taken from this attack do not begin to heal until you go a full session without using Spiritual Power" bit. Thematically I can see this working nicely, but separating out 'Spiritual Power' stress and consequences and those applied normally adds additional book-keeping to the power that is probably unnecessary.
How about if consequences are deducted as normal but the character has a additional stress track, "Spiritual Stress" where the relevant stress is applied, and which operates in a similar way to hunger stress?
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Animals will sometimes be scenery, sometimes be characters. Mister is largely scenery (blasphemous, I know, but he does little to affect the plot). Mouse, however, is most definitely a character. This is more of a narrative distinction than anything else, but an important one. Are you fighting an animal? Then it's a character. Is there just an animal around? Then it's scenery.
For spiritual power: I'd go with "Stress and consequences do not heal if Spiritual power is used during the recovery period." So a mild will still take a scene to shake off, but only if in that next scene you're not asking for more help. A moderate'll take a session anyway. A severe more so (so it's likely to stick around, which'll mean a character will be more likely to be taken out than take a severe consequence). This makes greater consequences a greater risk.
EDIT: What I should say in the first bit is if the animal was relevant to the story BEFORE possessed. One would hope it would be relevant afterwards.
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For spiritual power: I'd go with "Stress and consequences do not heal if Spiritual power is used during the recovery period."
I like this tweak as well.
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Spiritual Co-Pilot seems rather weak - I can't see anyone who would ever take it. Even if they only used it once, they would need a lucky roll or a fate point expenditure - failing that, they have to take a point of debt. And they need Discipline at the apex of the pyramid or the problem gets worse. So why won't people just spend the FP to boost what they want to instead?
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The fact that it is level cap plus uses makes it pretty weak especially compared to the (+0) combo of feeding dependency and feeding power which has its rolls starting at zero and has a bunch of similar if not more powerful advantages all for one less refresh. The biggest flaw of the power is that it creates two tiers of mental stress that exist and doesn't give clear guidelines on how they interact.
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Looks pretty good, couple of points though.
From reading the synopsis it looks like Spiritual Power is adding 1 to the ranking of the skill rather than 1 to the result of the roll, is this intentional? (not sure this would really make a difference - but it seems to be what it implies).
I'd add in something about specifying whether the Spiritual Power effect is invoked before or after the roll is made (it would be much more effective if applied after the roll, but thematically one would likely call upon the powers of your possessing spirit prior to attempting an action).
The last worry I have is the "stress and consequences taken from this attack do not begin to heal until you go a full session without using Spiritual Power" bit. Thematically I can see this working nicely, but separating out 'Spiritual Power' stress and consequences and those applied normally adds additional book-keeping to the power that is probably unnecessary.
How about if consequences are deducted as normal but the character has a additional stress track, "Spiritual Stress" where the relevant stress is applied, and which operates in a similar way to hunger stress?
Good points.
I considered a separate stress track, settled on this because I figured it'd be easier. But I suppose I could change that.
The bonus is supposed to be applied before rolling. I'll make that clear.
The bonus is not supposed to persist, but it is supposed to work on non-rolled things like initiative.
Animals will sometimes be scenery, sometimes be characters. Mister is largely scenery (blasphemous, I know, but he does little to affect the plot). Mouse, however, is most definitely a character. This is more of a narrative distinction than anything else, but an important one. Are you fighting an animal? Then it's a character. Is there just an animal around? Then it's scenery.
For spiritual power: I'd go with "Stress and consequences do not heal if Spiritual power is used during the recovery period." So a mild will still take a scene to shake off, but only if in that next scene you're not asking for more help. A moderate'll take a session anyway. A severe more so (so it's likely to stick around, which'll mean a character will be more likely to be taken out than take a severe consequence). This makes greater consequences a greater risk.
EDIT: What I should say in the first bit is if the animal was relevant to the story BEFORE possessed. One would hope it would be relevant afterwards.
That's a good summary of what makes animals problematic here.
The recovery tweak won't work, unfortunately, because it doesn't affect stress. In order for the once/scene attack model to work, stress has to last.
Spiritual Co-Pilot seems rather weak - I can't see anyone who would ever take it. Even if they only used it once, they would need a lucky roll or a fate point expenditure - failing that, they have to take a point of debt. And they need Discipline at the apex of the pyramid or the problem gets worse. So why won't people just spend the FP to boost what they want to instead?
If they use it once, they'll just take stress. Which is pretty trivial even with the healing restriction.
With peaked Discipline and 4 mental boxes, using this three times/scene isn't terribly risky.
The fact that it is level cap plus uses makes it pretty weak especially compared to the (+0) combo of feeding dependency and feeding power which has its rolls starting at zero and has a bunch of similar if not more powerful advantages all for one less refresh. The biggest flaw of the power is that it creates two tiers of mental stress that exist and doesn't give clear guidelines on how they interact.
Feeding Dependency has issues, and there are no special interactions between this stress and normal stress. Also this gives much broader bonuses than Blood Drinker and company.
That being said, I think I probably aimed a bit too low power-wise with this. I'll post a stronger version later tonight.
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I quite like the Demonhost template we worked out a while back, although the restrictions on that are a good deal more soft, and it's got quite a high power-level.
Personally, I'd do this on a sponsor/debt system, allowing you to invoke an aspect on anything in exchange for a debt point.
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I like sponsor mechanics too, but I needed to go beyond them for this. You see, this is basically one set of possession mechanics the perspective of the victim. Sponsor debt alone wouldn't be enough.
Enough talk, new version:
SPIRITUAL CO-PILOT [-1]
Description: A spirit dwells inside you, granting you power in exchange for control over you. Draw upon it too heavily, and you may become its puppet.
Musts: You must have an Aspect reflecting your spiritual partner. If you act against your Co-Pilot's agenda, a Compel may deny you access to this Power.
Note: This Power is usually taken alongside the Sponsor Power. It is not compatible with Immunity to the stress that it inflicts.
Skills Affected: Discipline, others.
Effects:
Spiritual Power. Whenever you use a skill, you may choose to treat it as though it were one point higher. Do this before rolling.
The Struggle For Control. You have an additional stress track, called the Control track. The length of this track is determined by your Conviction. Stress and consequences taken on this track do not begin to heal until you go a full session without using Spiritual Power.
The Price Of Power. At the end of any scene in which you use the Spiritual Power trapping, you suffer a control attack. The accuracy of this control attack is twice the number of times you used Spiritual Power in that scene, and has no weapon rating. Defend with your Discipline skill. If this attack takes you out, you receive a Compel as though you had taken a point of Sponsor Debt. Alternately, the GM may choose to alter one of your permanent Aspects.
I'm tempted to make extra mental stress boxes and mental armour apply to the control track. Good idea or bad idea?
PS: Thanks a lot everyone. I think that this is much better than the first version, though I'm still not quite sold on the attack scaling.
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WHY is sponsor debt alone insufficient to this task?
Why are the two recommended results of a take-out so vastly divergent in magnitude? (changing a permanent aspect is well beyond the usual scope of a compel)
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Now, for Domination. Or as I now call it, Enthrallment. Why this seemingly random name-changing, you ask?
Because it makes it easier to tell when somebody is using my version. If I called it Domination, then people would have to specify (not the canon version) whenever they wrote it on a character sheet.
For a similar reason, I try to make upgrade names easy to add to the original Power name. You should be able to make clear exactly what upgrades you have just by saying what your Power is called.
Wow, I'm rambling a lot in this thread. Enough of that. Here goes:
ENTHRALLMENT [-2]
Description: You can control minds. It's not quick or easy, but it's effective.
Skills Affected: Discipline.
Effects:
Domination. You may engage a willing or helpless target in a mental conflict. Discipline is used to attack and to defend. You automatically win initiative. If you are taken out, the conflict ends and you may not resume it for twenty four hours. Each exchange in this conflict takes roughly half an hour by default. You can rush this, but you'll suffer a penalty to all rolls in the rushed exchange. This penalty is -1 for a five minute exchange, -2 for a one minute one, and -3 for a combat-time exchange.
Enthrallment. If you take your target out, you may turn them into a rough thrall or into a Renfield. A rough thrall is identical to the character it once was, except that it now obeys you robotically and takes no initiative. Change its High Concept to reflect that. A rough thrall can recover given roughly a month without re-enthrallment, the help of a wizard or therapist, or a Compel against you on one of its aspects triggered by an attempt to force it to do something diametrically opposed to its nature. A Renfield is similar to a rough thrall, but retains none of its previous memories or identity. Renfields are incurable.
Superior Enthrallment [-1]. Your Enthrallment attacks inflict two additional stress. In addition, you may transform defeated targets into fine thralls. A fine thrall is identical to the character it once was, except it now seeks the goals you assign for it in place of its own. Change its High Concept to reflect that. You may also transform thralls into supernatural beings. Select four Refresh of Powers and stunts. Whenever you enthrall a character, you may grant them those abilities. Change their Aspects to reflect their new nature, as normal.
Words words words!
But I don't think it's that bad. It does more or less what I want.
Am I missing anything? Is this too strong, too weak, just dumb?
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WHY is sponsor debt alone insufficient to this task?
Why are the two recommended results of a take-out so vastly divergent in magnitude? (changing a permanent aspect is well beyond the usual scope of a compel)
1. Because sponsor debt doesn't really represent a struggle all that well. There can be one IC, but it's all fake to the player.
It might make more sense when I finish type four possession.
2. Is it? I actually thought changing an Aspect was the soft option. After all, it can just be changed back at a milestone with a bit of narrated willpower.
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People can get quite touchy about their Aspects. Also, they may have been planning to do something else with their minor milestone. That said, for the most part I agree with your analysis.
I like Superior Enthrallment, if only because it gives people with Ritual Psychomancy reason to get Enthrallment anyway. Even if they would still be better off upgrading Ritual.
However, shouldn't you put some restrictions on what kind of powers and stunts they could grant? I don't see why being enthralled should make someone suddenly have more expensive stuff and be able to teleport into the Nevernever.
Spiritual Power - Is there any reason you chose to word it this way, instead of just saying a +1 to any roll?
If I'm reading it right, a mild control consequence requires two scenes of no power usage to heal - one to start recovery, the other to actually heal it. Am I reading it right?
How about an option to go nova? Instead of only a series of +1 boosts, you can boost it as much as you want, perhaps with a cap of Lore or Conviction so it doesn't get abused. Each point of bonus you get, in total, will be doubled and added to the accuracy of the control attack.
SCP seems better now, if still a a tad on the weak side - though from what I've seen, I have different ideas about the value of a Refresh than you. It's also possible I'm still influenced by the earlier write-up.
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People can get quite touchy about their Aspects. Also, they may have been planning to do something else with their minor milestone.
Maybe instead of replacing an aspect, the taken out consequence could add an additional sticky aspect relating to the spirit's attempts to gain control, one that persists until the next milestone?
ENTHRALLMENT [-2]
Description: You can control minds. It's not quick or easy, but it's effective.
Skills Affected: Discipline.
Effects:
Domination. You may engage a willing or helpless target in a mental conflict. Discipline is used to attack and to defend. You automatically win initiative. If you are taken out, the conflict ends and you may not resume it for twenty four hours. Each exchange in this conflict takes roughly half an hour by default. You can rush this, but you'll suffer a penalty to all rolls in the rushed exchange. This penalty is -1 for a five minute exchange, -2 for a one minute one, and -3 for a combat-time exchange.
Enthrallment. If you take your target out, you may turn them into a rough thrall or into a Renfield. A rough thrall is identical to the character it once was, except that it now obeys you robotically and takes no initiative. Change its High Concept to reflect that. A rough thrall can recover given roughly a month without re-enthrallment, the help of a wizard or therapist, or a Compel against you on one of its aspects triggered by an attempt to force it to do something diametrically opposed to its nature. A Renfield is similar to a rough thrall, but retains none of its previous memories or identity. Renfields are incurable.
Superior Enthrallment [-1]. Your Enthrallment attacks inflict two additional stress. In addition, you may transform defeated targets into fine thralls. A fine thrall is identical to the character it once was, except it now seeks the goals you assign for it in place of its own. Change its High Concept to reflect that. You may also transform thralls into supernatural beings. Select four Refresh of Powers and stunts. Whenever you enthrall a character, you may grant them those abilities. Change their Aspects to reflect their new nature, as normal.
For rough thralls how would becoming one effect a supernaturally gifted being? Would a person with enthrallment be able to dominate a powerful magic user, turn them into a Rough Thrall and have them use their magic (or *shudder* have them use up their Death Curse), or would these abilities become unavailable whilst they are enthralled (you mention that Renfields lose their previous memories and abilities - which seems to imply that Rough Thralls retain them).
For that matter can this power be used to dominate an entirely non-human entity? Looking at things as they currently stand, with a little luck, a character specced out for this power could turn Maeve or Mavra into a Rough Thrall or Renfield relatively easily, something that just doesn't sit well with me. (In fact - looking at OW, Maeve would probably be easier to enthrall than Mavra...which seems a little odd)
The potential blowback from suborning the power of the Winter Lady could be very amusing and might be considered adequate motivation not to do this.
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My biggest question is: Can you act outside of the mental conflict? That is, if you're trying to enthrall me, can I just punch you?
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Each exchange takes 30 minutes. How are you planning to get Mavra or Maeve to sit still and let you enthrall them?
If it works any way like Domination, the victim has to be bound and helpless, so, no, you can't punch your would-be enthraller.
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Or, more accurately, being able to punch your would-be enthraller inherently invalidates the attempt to enthrall you.
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However, shouldn't you put some restrictions on what kind of powers and stunts they could grant? I don't see why being enthralled should make someone suddenly have more expensive stuff and be able to teleport into the Nevernever.
Because the enthralment process involves grafting a money spirit onto their soul.
Spiritual Power - Is there any reason you chose to word it this way, instead of just saying a +1 to any roll?
Initiative isn't a roll.
If I'm reading it right, a mild control consequence requires two scenes of no power usage to heal - one to start recovery, the other to actually heal it. Am I reading it right?
No. Go a session without using the Power and it heals.
How about an option to go nova? Instead of only a series of +1 boosts, you can boost it as much as you want, perhaps with a cap of Lore or Conviction so it doesn't get abused. Each point of bonus you get, in total, will be doubled and added to the accuracy of the control attack.
Way too good. A 10 000 shift control attack wouldn't be enough to pay for a +5 bonus.
SCP seems better now, if still a a tad on the weak side - though from what I've seen, I have different ideas about the value of a Refresh than you. It's also possible I'm still influenced by the earlier write-up.
I'd be interested in hearing about those different ideas...
Maybe instead of replacing an aspect, the taken out consequence could add an additional sticky aspect relating to the spirit's attempts to gain control, one that persists until the next milestone?
For rough thralls how would becoming one effect a supernaturally gifted being? Would a person with enthrallment be able to dominate a powerful magic user, turn them into a Rough Thrall and have them use their magic (or *shudder* have them use up their Death Curse), or would these abilities become unavailable whilst they are enthralled (you mention that Renfields lose their previous memories and abilities - which seems to imply that Rough Thralls retain them).
For that matter can this power be used to dominate an entirely non-human entity? Looking at things as they currently stand, with a little luck, a character specced out for this power could turn Maeve or Mavra into a Rough Thrall or Renfield relatively easily, something that just doesn't sit well with me. (In fact - looking at OW, Maeve would probably be easier to enthrall than Mavra...which seems a little odd)
The potential blowback from suborning the power of the Winter Lady could be very amusing and might be considered adequate motivation not to do this.
Get Maeve helpless, she's yours (going by her rather low canon stats). The first part is hard, though, and she probably ought to be tougher than OW says she is.
Caster thralls can cast. What gave you any other ideas?
In order to represent the corruptive process properly, permanent Aspect changes are kinda necessary.
That you need a willing or helpless target is the first thing the Power says.
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Okay, now for a possession variant.
NEEDS A NAME [-1]
Description: You're a spiritual symbiote of sorts; you enter the bodies of other people and make them stronger.
Musts: You must have an Aspect reflecting this Power.
Skills Affected: Many.
Effects:
Integration. You may enter the bodies of willing characters. Entering or leaving a body in a conflict takes your action, and you can stay until you decide to leave or are kicked out by your host. While you are in a character's body, that character has access to your stunts, skills, and Powers. Size Powers are an exception to this. Other exceptions should be handled through Compels or through the Limitation Power.
Abandoned Body. While you are in another character's body, the only thing you can do is talk to your host. Nobody save your host can perceive you unless they have The Sight or another such effect. If you have a physical body, it lies vulnerable until you leave your host. If you have the Spirit Form Power, you are entirely subsumed into your host until you leave into the area surrounding your host's body.
Thoughts? Criticisms? Name ideas?
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For Spiritual Co-Pilot I have a much more Elegant solution.
Just treat it as sponsored magic debt mechanics for everything in line with the co-pilots interest.
When it compels it compels for control of your character for a turn, generally speaking.
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Okay, now for a possession variant.
NEEDS A NAME [-1]
Description: You're a spiritual symbiote of sorts; you enter the bodies of other people and make them stronger.
Musts: You must have an Aspect reflecting this Power.
Skills Affected: Many.
Effects:
Integration. You may enter the bodies of willing characters. Entering or leaving a body in a conflict takes your action, and you can stay until you decide to leave or are kicked out by your host. While you are in a character's body, that character has access to your stunts, skills, and Powers. Size Powers are an exception to this. Other exceptions should be handled through Compels or through the Limitation Power.
Abandoned Body. While you are in another character's body, the only thing you can do is talk to your host. Nobody save your host can perceive you unless they have The Sight or another such effect. If you have a physical body, it lies vulnerable until you leave your host. If you have the Spirit Form Power, you are entirely subsumed into your host until you leave into the area surrounding your host's body.
Thoughts? Criticisms? Name ideas?
Doesn't Mind Meld already do this?
Also, how would this interact with your system for summoning/creating minions?
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@KOFFEYKID: That was discussed earlier. In fact, this version suggests that its users also take a -0 Power that lets them take debt to their Sponsor.
I quite like Sponsor mechanics and I'd totally use them alone for something like this...sometimes. This is for the other times.
@Locnil: As stated in the first post, this type of possession is very similar to Mind Meld. In fact, this Power is basically the second draft of Mind Meld...I just dropped the name because I think it sounds daft.
A summon/minion with Mind Meld is clearly broken, since this Power and the summon/minion rules work on different basic assumptions.
The summon/minon rules need a bit of GM fiat to work anyway, so it shouldn't be hard to make them work with this. The summoning rules already say to adjust complexity based on how optimal the summon is and the minion rules charge for Powers based on the value they have on a minion compared to the value they have on a PC.
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POSSESSION [-1]
Description: You can take over the bodies of others. Maybe only if they consent, maybe even if they don't.
Skills Affected: Discipline, others.
Effects:
Possession. You may enter the bodies of willing characters. Entering or leaving a body in a conflict takes your action, and you can stay until you decide to leave or are kicked out by your host. While you are in a character's body, you may control that body as though it were your own. Use your own skills and Powers when doing so. Size Powers are an exception to this: use your host's Size Powers in place of your own. At the GM's discretion, you may be able to use other Stunts and Powers possessed by your host. In addition, the host's skills may modify your own.
You're Not Hurting Me. You cannot be targeted with physical attacks while in another character's body, barring special Powers or unusual circumstances. Characters looking to take you down violently will probably have to settle for knocking the person whose body you're using unconscious. Mental and social attacks can target you normally, though, and you may not transfer backlash or physical stress costs to your host.
Spiritual Eviction. If you end up controlling a host who wants you out, that host may engage you in an opposed Discipline roll. If they win, you are forced out of their body. If you entered their body with their consent, your host may attempt one such roll as soon as they decide to kick you out. Regardless, they may attempt one such roll every time you control their body for another continuous day and every time you use their body to damage them or something they care about. In extreme situations, such as forced suicide, your host may benefit from a circumstantial bonus to the opposed Discipline roll.
Abandoned Body. While you are in another character's body, you can act only through that body. Nobody save your host can perceive you unless they have The Sight or another such effect. If you have a physical body, it lies vulnerable until you leave your host. If you have the Spirit Form Power, you are entirely subsumed into your host until you leave into the area surrounding your host's body.
Hostile Possession [-2]. You may attempt to possess unwilling victims. This requires you to win a mental conflict, which uses the same timeframe and initiative as a physical fight. Discipline is used to attack and defend in that conflict. During the conflict, you are treated as though you were inside your target's body for the purposes of the Abandoned Body and You're Not Hurting Me Trappings. Taking an action in that conflict takes a character's full attention. If you lose the conflict, you fail to possess the target and can't try again until the next session. If you win, you possess the target normally.
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Final clause of Possession trapping (hosts skills modifying yours) needs some guidance as to when it might suitably apply.
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I really dig that Possession rewrite. I've been wanting to play a possession based character for ages it was just never really feasible but with this... I think it can totally work.
As far as the line "In addition your host's skills may modify your own." I'd change it to be only physical, the idea being that no matter how much endurance you have you are going to suffer for possessing a character with only 1 endurance, or lower endurance, but mental skills should be relatively unaffected with perhaps the exception of lore and scholarship ("All your brainz are belong to me!") but that should come up less often than the physical skills.
I'm really liking it though I could totally see going:
-4 Sponsored Magic
+1 Human Form
-3 -Spirit Form
-1 -Possession
-2 --Hostile Possession
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I also feel like there should be an upgrade that lets you take advantage of the hosts Inhuman powers, certainly claws too so It might be more accurate to say physical powers. Tricky because you dont want the situation where a character is able to basically double dip on refresh from his own bank and the host's. Perhaps a sort of modular abilities refresh investment for what powers you can take advantage of on the host body?
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You guys have a point. Which capabilities of the host's you get to use should be clearer than it is.
I think I'll say physical Stunts and Powers and skills matter.
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I can readily imagine some social stunts being available (such as those for having a reputation of a certain quality), and some physical stunts that would not (such as those relying on preficiency with particular techniques rather than physical conditioning)
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Yeah, the physical thing will have to be a rough guideline only.
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My biggest question is: Can you act outside of the mental conflict? That is, if you're trying to enthrall me, can I just punch you?
Presumably yes, otherwise it would act as a super block. It is therefore strongly recommended that the target be helpless (or you be good enough to pull it off in combat rounds). Even a normal mortal will make quick work of a vampire if they are standing around trying to enthrall you. (Find flammable materials. Declare lighter. Craft impromptu torch. Mentally psyched. Torch master vampire. Declare they are weak to fire. Tag everything, and throw a fate points in. Compel the vampire's new consequence, burning to force it to have its eyes melt out. No more compulsions.)
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You need a willing or helpless target for Enthrallment. Says so right there in the first sentence of the effects.
(I put the willing bit there so that you could blackmail people into submitting to mental slavery.)
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Yeah, the physical thing will have to be a rough guideline only.
And the social thing.
And possibly even the mental thing, given, for instance, library stunts.
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Rather than trying to state what powers and abilities ARE available to the possessing character, it might be easier to state which ones are NOT available. Something like "Powers and abilities that would require the host character's knowledge or intellect are not available to the possessing character." would seem appropriate (though it could be tidied up somewhat.)
In the case of some abilities I would also consider making their use a compellable action (against whatever aspect the possessing character has relating to this power). The precise use of abilities like Supernatural Strength or Speed, or Shape-changing would likely be very tricky, and could likely lead to amusing and compellable circumstances.
On a related note, would a possessing character have access to (at least some of) the host character's aspects? IE. If I possessed a Troll Changeling, would I have access to the 'Trollblooded Strength' aspect as it is rooted purely in the physical abilities of the body.
Also how about adding something like a Human Form attachment to this, allowing the character to specify some of their own abilities that are not going to be available when possessing another body (In many cases this will be obvious, but there may be cases where a creator wants the possessing spirit to be limited only to the abilities of the host body, or in which possessing a body causes physical transformation - thus allowing abilities like Claws that would normally not be something to be carried over).
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How's this?
POSSESSION [-1]
Description: You can take over the bodies of others. Maybe only if they consent, maybe even if they don't.
Skills Affected: Discipline, others.
Effects:
Possession. You may enter the bodies of willing characters. Entering or leaving a body in a conflict takes your action, and you can stay until you decide to leave or are kicked out by your host. While you are in a character's body, you may control that body as though it were your own. Use your own skills and Powers when doing so. Size Powers are an exception to this: use your host's Size Powers in place of your own. You may also use other Stunts and Powers possessed by your host, as long as those Stunts and Powers are properties of your host's body. In addition, the host's skills may modify your own if they describe properties of your host's body. The GM decides what is and isn't a property of a character's body.
You're Not Hurting Me. You cannot be targeted with physical attacks while in another character's body, barring special Powers or unusual circumstances. Characters looking to take you down violently will probably have to settle for knocking the person whose body you're using unconscious. Mental and social attacks can target you normally, though, and you may not transfer backlash or physical stress costs to your host. If you leave behind your physical body in order to use this Power, attacks against it bypass this effect.
Spiritual Eviction. If you end up controlling a host who wants you out, that host may engage you in an opposed Discipline roll. If they win, you are forced out of their body. If you entered their body with their consent, your host may attempt one such roll as soon as they decide to kick you out. Regardless, they may attempt one such roll every time you control their body for another continuous day and every time you use their body to damage them or something they care about. In extreme situations, such as forced suicide, your host may benefit from a circumstantial bonus to the opposed Discipline roll.
Abandoned Body. While you are in another character's body, you can act only through that body. Nobody save your host can perceive you unless they have The Sight or another such effect. If you have a physical body, it lies vulnerable until you leave your host. If you have the Spirit Form Power, you are entirely subsumed into your host until you leave into the area surrounding your host's body.
Hostile Possession [-2]. You may attempt to possess unwilling victims. This requires you to win a mental conflict, which uses the same timeframe and initiative as a physical fight. Discipline is used to attack and defend in that conflict. During the conflict, you are treated as though you were inside your target's body for the purposes of the Abandoned Body and You're Not Hurting Me Trappings. Taking an action in that conflict takes a character's full attention. If you lose the conflict, you fail to possess the target and can't try again until the next session. If you win, you possess the target normally.
You can invoke an Aspect to boost any roll it makes sense for it to benefit, so no special rules are required to give access to 'Trollblooded Strength'.
The Limitation custom Power can and should be used for the Human Form idea.
PS: Does anybody have an idea for a name for the first possession Power I posted?
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Reputational stunts are quite clearly not 'properties of the host's body', but could quite reasonably be beneficial to the possessing entity. I'm sure I could come up with other such examples if I put in the effort.
Additional rephrasing, then, is required.
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PS: Does anybody have an idea for a name for the first possession Power I posted?
How about 'Spiritual Symbiote', as used in the flavor text. If not here are a few others:
Shared Consciousness
Mental Parasite
Mental Transference
Empathic Insinuation
Mental Concordance
Metaconcert
Spiritual Link
Spiritual Enjoinment
Composite Mind
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Reputational stunts are quite clearly not 'properties of the host's body',...
I don't agree, but whatever. I'll change it.
How about 'Spiritual Symbiote', as used in the flavor text...
Good idea. Thanks.
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Dunno about the name on this one, but at least it has symmetry with the nicer version.
As for the Power itself...as far as I can tell it's good. But I feel as though I might be making some kind of stupid mistake.
SPIRITUAL PARASITE [-1]
Description: You can invade the minds of others. You can't take over completely, but you can influence your hosts pretty strongly.
Skills Affected: Discipline, others.
Effects:
Spiritual Parasitism. You may attempt to enter the bodies of other characters, willing or otherwise. Entering an unwilling character requires you to win a mental conflict, which uses the same timeframe and initiative as a physical fight. Discipline is used to attack and defend in that conflict. During the conflict, you are treated as though you were inside your target's body for the purposes of the Abandoned Body and You're Not Hurting Me Trappings. Taking an action in that conflict takes a character's full attention. If you win the conflict, you may enter the target's body. If you lose, then you fail to do so and may not try again until the next session.
Sponsor. While you are inside another character, you may allow them to spend your Fate Points. For each Fate Point they spend this way, they acquire a point of sponsor debt. The debt is to you, and you may choose to use it for a Compel whenever you please.
Corrupting Influence. While you are inside another character, both you and your host gain a new stress track called the control track. The control track's length is determined by Conviction, and stress inflicted to it does not heal normally. At the end of each scene, you and your host may make a control attack against each other. Use Discipline to attack and to defend. If your host takes you out, you must leave their body. If you take them out, clear both your control track and theirs. Also you may either inflict a Compel upon them as though they had taken a point of sponsor debt to you or change one of their permanent Aspects. The extent of an Aspect change caused by this Power is roughly equal to the extent of an extreme consequence.
You're Not Hurting Me. You cannot be targeted with physical or mental attacks while in another character's body, barring special Powers or unusual circumstances. Social attacks can target you normally, though, and you may not transfer backlash or stress costs to your host. If you leave behind your physical body in order to use this Power, attacks against it bypass this effect.
Abandoned Body. While you are in another character's body, you can act only through that body. Nobody save your host can perceive you unless they have The Sight or another such effect. If you have a physical body, it lies vulnerable until you leave your host. If you have the Spirit Form Power, you are entirely subsumed into your host until you leave into the area surrounding your host's body.
Helpful Spiritual Parasite [-1]. While you are in another character's body, you may attempt grant that character a +1 bonus whenever they use any skill. If they accept the bonus, you get a stackable +2 bonus to the control attack that you make at the end of that scene.
Benevolent Spiritual Parasite [+1]. (Requires Helpful Spiritual Parasite) You may not make a control attack at the end of a scene unless your host accepted a bonus that scene. And even if they did accept a bonus, your attack skill is automatically Mediocre (+0) before bonuses. On the upside, your host can no longer make control attacks against you at the end of each scene. Barring some sort of exorcism, you're there until you decide to leave.
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Quick question, from reading the Spiritual Parasitism and Corrupting Influence sections, it appears that the parasite does not gain control of the body upon entering it, and has to wait until the end of the current scene (and the ensuing control conflict) in order to actually gain dominance, after which he is only able to inflict a compel or change one of the characters aspects. Is this intentional? If not it might be worth a note in the Spiritual Parasitism stating that upon successfully possessing a body, the parasite gains control.
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It's very intentional. This Power is supposed to represent back-of-the-mind possession like that of a Denarian shadow.
For a moment I wasn't sure what gave you any other impression. Then I looked up and saw the description from Possession was still in there.
Oops.
Please ignore the copypasta, it will be fixed.
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This is sort of Off the Beaten Path for what you are trying to do here, but its still near that path.
I think you should write up a power to represent the possessing entity being bound into an item (of power?). Something along the lines of a demon possessed sword which seeks to take control of it's bearer or the One Ring etc.
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I would like to do the whole Bound Spiritual Entity thing sometime...I guess now's not a bad moment.
Once I've done a quick editing pass over these Powers (and Spirit Form, which is affected by all this) we can get started on that.
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Whoops, turns out there's still one possession Power that I haven't started yet.
Here's a first draft of it. It's kinda long and it's a shamless rip-off of Possess Corpse, but I'm reasonably happy with it.
Opinions wanted, as always.
INHABIT [-2]
Description: You can enter inanimate objects, which you can then use as though they were physical bodies.
Musts: You must have an Aspect referring to the objects you inhabit, which can be invoked or compelled to reflect the abilities and limitations of your object-bodies.
Skills Affected: Many.
Effects:
Inhabitation. Once per scene, you may enter and control an inanimate object. While you are inside an object, you may control it as though it were your body. If your object-body is Taken Out, you may be objected during Take-Out narration. Otherwise you may stay as long as you wish. Use your own skills and Powers to represent the abilities of your object-body. Spirit Form is an exception to this; if you have it, it's suppressed while you inhabit an object. If your object-body should logically have a Size Power that you don't have, you can't inhabit it. If it should logically lack a Size Power that you have, you lose your Size Power while inhabiting it. If you have a Size Power that is effectively a greater version of the one you need, you may reduce it; for example, a character with Titanic Size could inhabit an object with Hulking Size.
Semi-Animate. While inhabiting an object, you have the Semi-Animate Power.
Abandoned Body. While you are inside an object, you can act only through that object. If you have a physical body, it lies vulnerable until you leave the object. If you have the Spirit Form Power, you are entirely subsumed into the object until you leave into the area surrounding the object.
Inhabit Specific Type Of Thing [+1]. You can only inhabit a specific type of object, like cars or corpses or clouds. The type of object should be specific enough that one won't always be available to inhabit.
Improved Inhabitation [-varies]. For every point of Refresh invested in this upgrade, you can copy one Refresh worth of Powers or one Stunt from an object whenever you inhabit that object. Select the Powers that you copy when entering the object. Inhabiting the corpse of a swordsman might grant a sword-related stunt, while inhabiting an iron statue might grant Toughness. This may be used to purchase Size Powers, allowing you to possess objects that would normally be too big or too small for you.
And here are the various other Powers that are part of this project. They're mostly done, but most of them need minor edits. For example, I should make it clear that things possessed by a ghost don't become incorporeal.
SPIRITUAL PARASITE [-1]
Description: You can invade the minds of others. You can't take over completely, but you can influence your hosts pretty strongly.
Skills Affected: Discipline, others.
Effects:
Spiritual Parasitism. You may attempt to enter the bodies of other characters, willing or otherwise. Entering an unwilling character requires you to win a mental conflict, which uses the same timeframe and initiative as a physical fight. Discipline is used to attack and defend in that conflict. During the conflict, you are treated as though you were inside your target's body for the purposes of the Abandoned Body and You're Not Hurting Me Trappings. Taking an action in that conflict takes a character's full attention. If you win the conflict, you may enter the target's body. If you lose, then you fail to do so and may not try again until the next session.
Sponsor. While you are inside another character, you may allow them to spend your Fate Points. For each Fate Point they spend this way, they acquire a point of sponsor debt. The debt is to you, and you may choose to use it for a Compel whenever you please.
Corrupting Influence. While you are inside another character, both you and your host gain a new stress track called the control track. The control track's length is determined by Conviction, and stress inflicted to it does not heal normally. At the end of each scene, you and your host may make a control attack against each other. Use Discipline to attack and to defend. If your host takes you out, you must leave their body. If you take them out, clear both your control track and theirs. Also you may either inflict a Compel upon them as though they had taken a point of sponsor debt to you or change one of their permanent Aspects. The extent of an Aspect change caused by this Power is roughly equal to the extent of an extreme consequence.
You're Not Hurting Me. You cannot be targeted with physical or mental attacks while in another character's body, barring special Powers or unusual circumstances. Social attacks can target you normally, though, and you may not transfer backlash or stress costs to your host. If you leave behind your physical body in order to use this Power, attacks against it bypass this effect.
Abandoned Body. While you are in another character's body, you can act only through that body. Nobody save your host can perceive you unless they have The Sight or another such effect. If you have a physical body, it lies vulnerable until you leave your host. If you have the Spirit Form Power, you are entirely subsumed into your host until you leave into the area surrounding your host's body.
Helpful Spiritual Parasite [-1]. While you are in another character's body, you may attempt grant that character a +1 bonus whenever they use any skill. If they accept the bonus, you get a stackable +2 bonus to the control attack that you make at the end of that scene.
Benevolent Spiritual Parasite [+1]. (Requires Helpful Spiritual Parasite) You may not make a control attack at the end of a scene unless your host accepted a bonus that scene. And even if they did accept a bonus, your attack skill is automatically Mediocre (+0) before bonuses. On the upside, your host can no longer make control attacks against you at the end of each scene. Barring some sort of exorcism, you're there until you decide to leave.
SPIRITUAL CO-PILOT [-1]
Description: A spirit dwells inside you, granting you power in exchange for control over you. Draw upon it too heavily, and you may become its puppet.
Musts: You must have an Aspect reflecting your spiritual partner. If you act against your Co-Pilot's agenda, a Compel may deny you access to this Power.
Note: This Power is usually taken alongside the Sponsor Power. It is not compatible with Immunity to the stress that it inflicts.
Skills Affected: Discipline, others.
Effects:
Spiritual Power. Whenever you use a skill, you may choose to treat it as though it were one point higher. Do this before rolling.
The Struggle For Control. You have an additional stress track, called the Control track. The length of this track is determined by your Conviction. Stress and consequences taken on this track do not begin to heal until you go a full session without using Spiritual Power.
The Price Of Power. At the end of any scene in which you use the Spiritual Power trapping, you suffer a control attack. The accuracy of this control attack is twice the number of times you used Spiritual Power in that scene, and has no weapon rating. Defend with your Discipline skill. If this attack takes you out, you receive a Compel as though you had taken a point of Sponsor Debt. Alternately, the GM may choose to alter one of your permanent Aspects.
ENTHRALLMENT [-2]
Description: You can control minds. It's not quick or easy, but it's effective.
Skills Affected: Discipline.
Effects:
Domination. You may engage a willing or helpless target in a mental conflict. Discipline is used to attack and to defend. You automatically win initiative. If you are taken out, the conflict ends and you may not resume it for twenty four hours. Each exchange in this conflict takes roughly half an hour by default. You can rush this, but you'll suffer a penalty to all rolls in the rushed exchange. This penalty is -1 for a five minute exchange, -2 for a one minute one, and -3 for a combat-time exchange.
Enthrallment. If you take your target out, you may turn them into a rough thrall or into a Renfield. A rough thrall is identical to the character it once was, except that it now obeys you robotically and takes no initiative. Change its High Concept to reflect that. A rough thrall can recover given roughly a month without re-enthrallment, the help of a wizard or therapist, or a Compel against you on one of its aspects triggered by an attempt to force it to do something diametrically opposed to its nature. A Renfield is similar to a rough thrall, but retains none of its previous memories or identity. Renfields are incurable.
Superior Enthrallment [-1]. Your Enthrallment attacks inflict two additional stress. In addition, you may transform defeated targets into fine thralls. A fine thrall is identical to the character it once was, except it now seeks the goals you assign for it in place of its own. Change its High Concept to reflect that. You may also transform thralls into supernatural beings. Select four Refresh of Powers and stunts. Whenever you enthrall a character, you may grant them those abilities. Change their Aspects to reflect their new nature, as normal.
SPIRITUAL SYMBIOTE [-1]
Description: You're a spiritual symbiote of sorts; you enter the bodies of other people and make them stronger.
Musts: You must have an Aspect reflecting this Power.
Skills Affected: Many.
Effects:
Integration. You may enter the bodies of willing characters. Entering or leaving a body in a conflict takes your action, and you can stay until you decide to leave or are kicked out by your host. While you are in a character's body, that character has access to your stunts, skills, and Powers. Size Powers are an exception to this. Other exceptions should be handled through Compels or through the Limitation Power.
Abandoned Body. While you are in another character's body, the only thing you can do is talk to your host. Nobody save your host can perceive you unless they have The Sight or another such effect. If you have a physical body, it lies vulnerable until you leave your host. If you have the Spirit Form Power, you are entirely subsumed into your host until you leave into the area surrounding your host's body.
POSSESSION [-1]
Description: You can take over the bodies of others. Maybe only if they consent, maybe even if they don't.
Skills Affected: Discipline, others.
Effects:
Possession. You may enter the bodies of willing characters. Entering or leaving a body in a conflict takes your action, and you can stay until you decide to leave or are kicked out by your host. While you are in a character's body, you may control that body as though it were your own. Use your own skills and Powers when doing so. Size Powers are an exception to this: use your host's Size Powers in place of your own. You may also use other Stunts and Powers possessed by your host, as long as those Stunts and Powers are properties of your host's body. In addition, the host's skills may modify your own if they describe properties of your host's body. The GM decides what is and isn't a property of a character's body.
You're Not Hurting Me. You cannot be targeted with physical attacks while in another character's body, barring special Powers or unusual circumstances. Characters looking to take you down violently will probably have to settle for knocking the person whose body you're using unconscious. Mental and social attacks can target you normally, though, and you may not transfer backlash or physical stress costs to your host. If you leave behind your physical body in order to use this Power, attacks against it bypass this effect.
Spiritual Eviction. If you end up controlling a host who wants you out, that host may engage you in an opposed Discipline roll. If they win, you are forced out of their body. If you entered their body with their consent, your host may attempt one such roll as soon as they decide to kick you out. Regardless, they may attempt one such roll every time you control their body for another continuous day and every time you use their body to damage them or something they care about. In extreme situations, such as forced suicide, your host may benefit from a circumstantial bonus to the opposed Discipline roll.
Abandoned Body. While you are in another character's body, you can act only through that body. Nobody save your host can perceive you unless they have The Sight or another such effect. If you have a physical body, it lies vulnerable until you leave your host. If you have the Spirit Form Power, you are entirely subsumed into your host until you leave into the area surrounding your host's body.
Hostile Possession [-2]. You may attempt to possess unwilling victims. This requires you to win a mental conflict, which uses the same timeframe and initiative as a physical fight. Discipline is used to attack and defend in that conflict. During the conflict, you are treated as though you were inside your target's body for the purposes of the Abandoned Body and You're Not Hurting Me Trappings. Taking an action in that conflict takes a character's full attention. If you lose the conflict, you fail to possess the target and can't try again until the next session. If you win, you possess the target normally.
SPIRIT FORM [-3]
Description: You are an incorporeal spirit form, able to pass through walls and other barriers in the mortal world. Thresholds still have an almost physical reality to you, however.
Skills Affected: Many, especially Conviction.
Note: This power may not normally be attached to Human Form, Feeding Dependency, an Item Of Power, Magical Self-Enhancement, or any other power that can "turn off" the powers it is attached to.. The Astral Projection and Manifestation upgrades, if taken, entirely remove this restriction except with regards to Human Form.
Effects:
Insubstantial. You are invisible, inaudible, and incorporeal. This means that you can neither affect nor be affected by physical things, except as dictated under Vulnerabilities and Manifestation. Any magic that you cast is also incorporeal, and useless against anything physical. However, you can perceive the physical world normally, and under some circumstances it may be possible for physical characters to perceive and communicate with you. Characters with this power may affect each other freely.
Shaped By Belief. Your very existence is defined by belief. As a result, you are not closely bound by physical reality.You do not need to eat or sleep or breathe. Furthermore, you do not excrete wastes and you do not age. You are immune to both poison and disease. You may make Maneuvers and Declarations with Conviction to define your physical form and the nature of your interactions with the world.
Vulnerabilities. Certain physical things can harm you despite your intangibility. These things include ghost dust, fire, and sunlight. What's more, you cannot cross thresholds at all.
Manifestation [-2]. Once per scene, you may force yourself to manifest physically. This negates this power until the scene ends, you choose to become immaterial, or you get taken out in a physical conflict. Using this trapping is an insane act for a ghost, and as such this trapping may not be possessed by sane ghosts. (Other forms of spirit might not have this limitation.)
Poltergeist [-1]. You can exert a tiny amount of force on the material world. Normally this does nothing of importance, but when machinery is around you can often interfere with it. You may use Conviction to make maneuvers disrupting physical machinery.
Spiritual Physics Abuse [-1]. The laws of physics only affect you if you think they should. Teleportation is possible for you. You may substitute your Conviction skill for your Might skill when exerting force, your Athletics skill when moving, or for any other physical skill as the GM feels is appropriate.
Mind = Matter [-0]. Your body and your mind are the same thing. You have one stress track that is used for both mental and physical stress. Its length is determined by your Conviction skill. Toughness powers apply to this track, but mental stress automatically satisfies catches. Consequences taken on this track do not recover naturally unless you provide some form of special justification, generally involving the absorption of memories. More severe consequences require more elaborate justifications.
Astral Projection [-1]. You are a physical creature, but you can leave your body when you feel inclined. You normally do not have access to this power, but you may gain access to it any time by taking a supplemental action. When you do so, your physical body is unconscious and immobile. You may return to your physical body at any time by physically entering it with a supplemental action.
Involuntary Projection/Manifestation [+1]. (Requires Astral Projection or Manifestation) You have no control over whether or not you are corporeal at any given time. Choose a condition in collaboration with the GM. This condition determines whether or not this power is active at any given time.
Possession [-1]. You may enter the bodies of others, combining your power with theirs. Given a willing host, you may enter that host's body as a supplemental action. This allows you to control their body, using your own skills for all rolls. While you possess a host, you have access to all of your own powers and those of your host's powers that your GM deems appropriate. The host's skills may modify yours, at the GM's discretion. Physical stress is inflicted on the host, not on you, and the host's physical stress track is not affected. If you cast spells while in another characters body, you must pay for those spells with your own mental stress. However, your host suffers backlash for you. A character who is being possessed may not act, but they may force the possessor out of their body at any time.
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No comments, huh?
I guess Inhabit must be good stuff.
Anyway, here's my plan for the editing:
-Make it clearer what Powers Possession lets you use.
-Remove the silly interaction where ghosts turn their hosts incorporeal.
-Make clear what happens when you try to possess a possessed character.
-Give Spirit Form a trapping that makes you immune to possession.
-Rename the various Spirit Form upgrades so that they can be phrased as additions to the name of the Power.
-Add an option to Spirit Form for solid characters who can dematerialize.
-Maybe make Manifestation include the effects of Poltergeist.
-Remove Possession as a Spirit Form trapping.
-Maybe remove the sunlight weakness for spirits, or make it only apply to weaponized sunlight.
-General wording clean-up.
Any thoughts on the plan?
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I know that for game play reasons the sunlight weakness is kind of lame. It does kind of suck if your character can't do anything during the day. But it is something that spirits (and especially the ghosts this power most closely models) have to deal with in the Dresden world. If you are creative it may even provide some interesting tension in game play.
For example you could have a bob like spirit that inhabits some item that protects them during the day, and can talk, and thus contribute to most non-combat actions during this time. Or you could have a spirit with the Spiritual Symbiote power that is closely tied to some other PC.
Really spirit/ghost characters are weird enough already that these hoops should not be too much to jump through.
Or you could just remove it altogether for purely game play reasons (a good reason in my book :P .
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I'm actually not sure whether Dresden spirits are all vulnerable to sunlight. I think non-ghost ones might not be.
And anyway it's not clear what kind of damage the sun ought to do.
Yeah, that bit is best left to Aspects.
Oh, and one other edit I should make: Spiritual Symbiote should include You're Not Hurting Me.
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I'm actually not sure whether Dresden spirits are all vulnerable to sunlight. I think non-ghost ones might not be.
And anyway it's not clear what kind of damage the sun ought to do.
Yeah, that bit is best left to Aspects.
Oh, and one other edit I should make: Spiritual Symbiote should include You're Not Hurting Me.
Bob is vulnerable to sunlight, which is why he has to go out inside Mister during the day (or be in his skull). If we take him as standard for spirits (as has been implied), then most of them will disintegrate with the sunrise.
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Huh, really?
I guess my memory isn't so hot.
Sunlight vulnerability still makes more sense as a Compel though.
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Edit mostly done.
Still need to take care of Spirit Form.
Changes I made:
-Made it clearer what Powers Possession lets you use.
-Removed the silly interaction where ghosts turn their hosts incorporeal.
-Made clear what happens when you try to possess a possessed character.
-Added You're Not Hurting Me to Spiritual Symbiote.
-General wording clean-up.
-Edited Spiritual Parasite to match Spiritual Co-Pilot better. (This wasn't in the plan, and it's a meaningful change. Control stress and consequences are now recovered slightly differently. Tell me if this is dumb.)
INHABIT [-2]
Description: You can enter inanimate objects, which you can then use as though they were physical bodies.
Musts: You must have an Aspect referring to the objects you inhabit, which can be invoked or compelled to reflect the abilities and limitations of your object-bodies.
Skills Affected: Many.
Effects:
Inhabitation. Once per scene, you may enter and control an inanimate object. While you are inside an object, you may control it as though it were your body. If your object-body is Taken Out, you may be ejected during Take-Out narration. Otherwise you may stay as long as you wish. Use your own skills and Powers to represent the abilities of your object-body. Spirit Form is an exception to this; if you have it, it's suppressed while you inhabit an object. If your object-body should logically have a Size Power that you don't have, you can't inhabit it. If it should logically lack a Size Power that you have, you lose your Size Power while inhabiting it. If you have a Size Power that is effectively a greater version of the one you need, you may reduce it; for example, a character with Titanic Size could inhabit an object with Hulking Size.
Semi-Animate. While inhabiting an object, you have the Semi-Animate Power.
Abandoned Body. While you are inside an object, you can act only through that object. If you have a physical body, it lies vulnerable until you leave the object. If you have the Spirit Form Power, you are entirely subsumed into the object until you leave into the area surrounding the object.
Inhabit Specific Type Of Thing [+1]. You can only inhabit a specific type of object, like cars or corpses or clouds. The type of object should be specific enough that one won't always be available to inhabit.
Improved Inhabitation [-varies]. For every point of Refresh invested in this upgrade, you can copy one Refresh worth of Powers or one Stunt from an object whenever you inhabit that object. Select the Powers that you copy when entering the object. Inhabiting the corpse of a swordsman might grant a sword-related stunt, while inhabiting an iron statue might grant Toughness. This may be used to purchase Size Powers, allowing you to possess objects that would normally be too big or too small for you.
SPIRITUAL PARASITE [-1]
Description: You can invade the minds of others. You can't take over completely, but you can influence your hosts pretty strongly.
Skills Affected: Discipline, others.
Effects:
Spiritual Parasitism. You may attempt to enter the bodies of other characters, willing or otherwise. Entering an unwilling character requires you to win a mental conflict, which uses the same timeframe and initiative as a physical fight. Discipline is used to attack and defend in that conflict. During the conflict, you are treated as though you were inside your target's body for the purposes of the Abandoned Body and You're Not Hurting Me Trappings. Taking an action in that conflict takes a character's full attention. If you win the conflict, you may enter the target's body. If you lose, then you fail to do so and may not try again until the next session.
Sponsor. While you are inside a character, that character has a temporary Aspect that indicates your presence. In addition, you may allow them to spend your Fate Points. For each Fate Point they spend this way, they acquire a point of sponsor debt. The debt is to you, and you may choose to use it for a Compel whenever you please.
Corrupting Influence. While you are inside another character, both you and your host gain a new stress track called the control track. The control track's length and the number of additional mild consequences for it is determined by Conviction, and stress and consequences inflicted to it do not heal normally. At the end of each scene, you and your host may make a control attack against each other. Use Discipline to attack and to defend. If your host takes you out, you must leave their body. If you take them out, clear both your control track and theirs. Also you may either inflict a Compel upon them as though they had taken a point of sponsor debt to you or change one of their permanent Aspects. The extent of an Aspect change caused by this Power is roughly equal to the extent of an extreme consequence.
You're Not Hurting Me. You cannot be targeted with physical or mental attacks while in another character's body, barring special Powers or unusual circumstances. Social attacks can target you normally, though, and you may not transfer backlash or stress costs to your host. If your host is drawn into a mental conflict, you may participate in that conflict. If you leave behind your physical body in order to use this Power, attacks against it bypass this effect.
Abandoned Body. While you are in another character's body, you cannot take physical actions. Nobody save your host can perceive you unless they have The Sight or another such effect. If you have a physical body, it lies vulnerable until you leave your host. If you have the Spirit Form Power, you are entirely subsumed into your host until you leave into the area surrounding your host's body.
Helpful Spiritual Parasite [-1]. While you are in another character's body, you may attempt grant that character a +1 bonus whenever they use any skill. If they accept the bonus, you get a stackable +2 bonus to the control attack that you make at the end of that scene.
Benevolent Spiritual Parasite [+1]. (Requires Helpful Spiritual Parasite) You may not make a control attack at the end of a scene unless your host accepted a bonus that scene. And even if they did accept a bonus, your attack skill is automatically Mediocre (+0) before bonuses. Whenever your host goes a full session without using a bonus, they may clear their control stress track and begin to recover control consequences normally. On the upside, your host can no longer make control attacks against you at the end of each scene. Barring some sort of exorcism, you're there until you decide to leave.
SPIRITUAL CO-PILOT [-1]
Description: A spirit dwells inside you, granting you power in exchange for control over you. Draw upon it too heavily, and you may become its puppet.
Musts: You must have an Aspect reflecting your spiritual partner. If you act against your Co-Pilot's agenda, a Compel may deny you access to this Power.
Note: This Power is usually taken alongside the Sponsor Power. It is not compatible with Immunity to the stress that it inflicts.
Skills Affected: Discipline, others.
Effects:
Spiritual Power. Whenever you use a skill, you may choose to treat it as though it were one point higher. Do this before rolling.
The Struggle For Control. You have an additional stress track, called the control track. The length of this track and whether you receive any additional mild consequences for it is determined by your Conviction. Stress and consequences taken on this track do not begin to heal until you go a full session without using Spiritual Power.
The Price Of Power. At the end of any scene in which you use the Spiritual Power trapping, you suffer a control attack. The accuracy of this control attack is twice the number of times you used Spiritual Power in that scene, and has no weapon rating. Defend with your Discipline skill. If this attack takes you out, you receive a Compel as though you had taken a point of Sponsor Debt. Alternately, the GM may choose to alter one of your permanent Aspects.
ENTHRALLMENT [-2]
Description: You can control minds. It's not quick or easy, but it's effective.
Skills Affected: Discipline.
Effects:
Domination. You may engage a willing or helpless target in a mental conflict. Discipline is used to attack and to defend. You automatically win initiative, and taking an action in this conflict requires a character's full attention. If you are taken out, the conflict ends and you may not resume it for twenty four hours. Each exchange in this conflict takes roughly half an hour by default. You can rush this, but you'll suffer a penalty to all rolls in the rushed exchange. This penalty is -1 for a five minute exchange, -2 for a one minute one, and -3 for a combat-time exchange.
Enthrallment. If you take your target out, you may turn them into a rough thrall or into a Renfield. A rough thrall is identical to the character it once was, except that it now obeys you robotically and takes no initiative. Change its High Concept to reflect that. A rough thrall can recover given roughly a month without re-enthrallment, the help of a wizard or therapist, or a Compel against you on one of its aspects triggered by an attempt to force it to do something diametrically opposed to its nature. A Renfield is similar to a rough thrall, but retains none of its previous memories or identity. Renfields are incurable.
Superior Enthrallment [-1]. Your Enthrallment attacks inflict two additional stress. In addition, you may transform defeated targets into fine thralls. A fine thrall is identical to the character it once was, except it now seeks the goals you assign for it in place of its own. Change its High Concept to reflect that. You may also transform thralls into supernatural beings. Select four Refresh of Powers and stunts. Whenever you enthrall a character, you may grant them those abilities. Change their Aspects to reflect their new nature, as normal.
SPIRITUAL SYMBIOTE [-1]
Description: You're a spiritual symbiote of sorts; you enter the bodies of other people and make them stronger.
Musts: You must have an Aspect reflecting this Power.
Skills Affected: Many.
Effects:
Integration. You may enter the bodies of willing characters. Entering or leaving a body in a conflict takes your action, and you can stay until you decide to leave or are kicked out by your host. While you are in a character's body, that character has access to your stunts, skills, and Powers. Size Powers and Spirit Form are exceptions to this. Other exceptions should be handled through Compels or through the Limitation Power.
Abandoned Body. While you are in another character's body, the only things you can do are look through your host's senses and talk to your host. Nobody save your host can perceive you unless they have The Sight or another such effect. If you have a physical body, it lies vulnerable until you leave your host. If you have the Spirit Form Power, you are entirely subsumed into your host until you leave into the area surrounding your host's body.
You're Not Hurting Me. You cannot be targeted with physical attacks while in another character's body, barring special Powers or unusual circumstances. Characters looking to take you down violently will probably have to settle for knocking the person whose body you're using unconscious. Mental and social attacks can target you normally, though, and you may not transfer backlash or physical stress costs to your host. If your host is drawn into a mental conflict, you may participate in that conflict. If you leave behind your physical body in order to use this Power, attacks against it bypass this effect.
POSSESSION [-1]
Description: You can take over the bodies of others. Maybe only if they consent, maybe even if they don't.
Skills Affected: Discipline, others.
Effects:
Possession. You may enter the bodies of willing characters. Entering or leaving a body in a conflict takes your action, and you can stay until you decide to leave or are kicked out by your host. While you are in a character's body, you may control that body as though it were your own. Use your own skills and Powers when doing so. Size Powers and Spirit Form are an exception to this: use your host's Size Powers in place of your own, and if you have Spirit Form it is suppressed while you're in someone else's body. You may also use certain other Stunts and Powers possessed by your host, generally those relating to raw physical ability or the reactions of other characters to your host's body. Some of the host's skills may also modify your own, generally along the same guidelines as Powers and Stunts. The GM is the final judge of which of the host's Powers and Skills and Stunts apply to you.
You're Not Hurting Me. You cannot be targeted with physical attacks while in another character's body, barring special Powers or unusual circumstances. Characters looking to take you down violently will probably have to settle for knocking the person whose body you're using unconscious. Mental and social attacks can target you normally, though, and you may not transfer backlash or physical stress costs to your host. If your host is drawn into a mental conflict, you may participate in that conflict. If you leave behind your physical body in order to use this Power, attacks against it bypass this effect.
Spiritual Eviction. If you end up controlling a host who wants you out, that host may engage you in an opposed Discipline roll. If they win, you are forced out of their body. If you entered their body with their consent, your host may attempt one such roll as soon as they decide to kick you out. Regardless, they may attempt one such roll every time you control their body for another continuous day and every time you use their body to damage them or something they care about. In extreme situations, such as forced suicide, your host may benefit from a circumstantial bonus to the opposed Discipline roll.
Abandoned Body. While you are in another character's body, you can act only through that body. Nobody save your host can perceive you unless they have The Sight or another such effect. If you have a physical body, it lies vulnerable until you leave your host. If you have the Spirit Form Power, you are entirely subsumed into your host until you leave into the area surrounding your host's body.
Hostile Possession [-2]. You may attempt to possess unwilling victims. This requires you to win a mental conflict, which uses the same timeframe and initiative as a physical fight. Discipline is used to attack and defend in that conflict. During the conflict, you are treated as though you were inside your target's body for the purposes of the Abandoned Body and You're Not Hurting Me Trappings. Taking an action in that conflict takes a character's full attention. If you lose the conflict, you fail to possess the target and can't try again until the next session. If you win, you possess the target normally. If a character is possessed by multiple characters with this Power, the most recent possession takes precedence.
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And now Spirit Form. This is a fairly complex revision, so I won't go over individual changes. Please tell me if this is an improvement.
SPIRIT FORM [-3]
Description: You are an incorporeal spirit form, able to pass through walls and other barriers in the mortal world. Thresholds still have an almost physical reality to you, however.
Skills Affected: Many, especially Conviction.
Note: This power may not normally be attached to Human Form, Feeding Dependency, an Item Of Power, Magical Self-Enhancement, or any other power that can "turn off" the powers it is attached to. The Astral Projection and Manifestation upgrades, if taken, entirely remove this restriction except with regards to Human Form.
Effects:
Insubstantial. You are invisible, inaudible, and incorporeal. This means that you can neither affect nor be affected by physical things, except as dictated under Vulnerabilities. Any magic that you cast is also incorporeal, and useless against anything physical. However, you can perceive the physical world normally, and under some circumstances it may be possible for physical characters to perceive and communicate with you. Characters with this power may affect each other freely.
Shaped By Belief. Your very existence is defined by belief. As a result, you are not closely bound by physical reality. You do not need to eat or sleep or breathe. Furthermore, you do not excrete wastes and you do not age. You are immune to both poison and disease. You may make Maneuvers and Declarations with Conviction to define your physical form and the nature of your interactions with the world.
No Real Body. You don't have a real body. Powers that allow characters to enter the bodies of others, like Possession, cannot be used on you.
Vulnerabilities. Certain physical things can harm you despite your intangibility. These things include ghost dust and fire. What's more, you cannot cross thresholds at all.
Unrealistic Spirit Form [-1]. The laws of physics only affect you if you think they should. Teleportation is possible for you. You may substitute your Conviction skill for your Might skill when exerting force, your Athletics skill when moving, or for any other physical skill as the GM feels is appropriate.
Spiritual Body [-0]. Your body and your mind are the same thing. You have one stress track that is used for both mental and physical stress. Its length is determined by your Conviction skill. Size, Toughness, and Stoicism powers apply to this track, but mental stress bypasses physical Powers and vice versa. Consequences taken on this track do not recover naturally unless you provide some form of special justification, generally involving the absorption of memories. More severe consequences require more elaborate justifications.
Quasi-Solid Spirit Form [-1]. You can exert a tiny amount of force on the material world. Normally this does nothing of importance, but when machinery is around you can often interfere with it. You may use Conviction to make maneuvers disrupting physical machinery and moving small objects.
Optional Spirit Form [-2]. You may suppress or reactivate this Power whenever you please. Doing so takes an action if you are engaged in a conflict. Using this trapping is an insane act for a ghost, and as such this trapping may not be possessed by sane ghosts. (Other forms of spirit might not have this limitation, and physical creatures that can become ethereal almost certainly don't.)
Projected Spirit Form [-1]. You are a physical creature, but you can leave your body when you feel inclined. You normally do not have access to this power, but you may gain access to it any time by taking a supplemental action. When you do so, your physical body is unconscious and immobile. You may return to your physical body at any time by physically entering it with a supplemental action. This upgrade is not compatible with Optional Spirit Form.
Involuntary Spirit Form [+1]. (Requires Optional Spirit Form or Projected Spirit Form) You have no control over whether or not you are corporeal at any given time. Choose a condition in collaboration with the GM. This condition determines whether or not this power is active at any given time.
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So, is this perfect?
Somehow I doubt it.
Please, people, tell me what you think.
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Regarding spiritual co-pilot: would you get an extra mild control consequence if you have a conviction of 5? I haven't really dealt with special stress tracks yet.
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The way Spiritual Co-Pilot is written, it would not. I suspect this to be an oversight.
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You are intended to get an extra consequence for high Conviction.
If the current wording doesn't say that, could someone please suggest one that would?
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'[...]the length of this track, and potential additional mild consequences,[...]'
insert the bolded text
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Mkay.
Anything else?
The lack of either praise or criticism is making me nervous. For all I know, I screwed everything up and nobody's telling me.
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My remaining objections to Spiritual Co-Pilot in particular have already been voiced, noted, and rejected.
I'll take a read through the other powers over the next while.
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I don't really see how any of these powers allow you to play something like a Hexenwolf. I see spiritual co-pilot being the closest thing to the old Demonic Co-pilot. Would you also combine it with one of the other powers listed here - one that lets you share shapeshifting powers (basically statting out the spirit as a separate NPC)? Or would you take human Form and have the spiritual co-pilot only affect you while shape-shifted. There's nothing here that lets you trade Powers for debt , which is how I see a Hexenwolf working.
So maybe I'm completely missing something here.
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I don't really see how any of these powers allow you to play something like a Hexenwolf. I see spiritual co-pilot being the closest thing to the old Demonic Co-pilot. Would you also combine it with one of the other powers listed here - one that lets you share shapeshifting powers (basically statting out the spirit as a separate NPC)? Or would you take human Form and have the spiritual co-pilot only affect you while shape-shifted. There's nothing here that lets you trade Powers for debt , which is how I see a Hexenwolf working.
So maybe I'm completely missing something here.
I can see it working in conjunction with shape shifting powers and tie them both to an IoP. The control track represents the power struggle between the player and the entity. Taking consequences for control makes what should be a very serious compel, along with a possible permanent aspect change. From an RP point you're always struggleing for control, but the times when youechanically use the power and take control stress represent the instances where the entity is really leaning in on you.
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I can see it working in conjunction with shape shifting powers and tie them both to an IoP. The control track represents the power struggle between the player and the entity. Taking consequences for control makes what should be a very serious compel, along with a possible permanent aspect change. From an RP point you're always struggleing for control, but the times when youechanically use the power and take control stress represent the instances where the entity is really leaning in on you.
Except there's no control test for just using the Powers you'd get for shapeshifting. There's only a control test if you use the skill boost.
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Except there's no control test for just using the Powers you'd get for shapeshifting. There's only a control test if you use the skill boost.
Not sure I would be too concerned about that since the co-pilot ability is tied to being in you shifted form. The player is always going to be tempted to use that +1 if they think they can survive the control attack. But if you really wanted to you could treat shifting itself as if you used the co-pilot ability meaning even if you never use the +1 you have to defend against a minor attack.
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I don't really see how any of these powers allow you to play something like a Hexenwolf. I see spiritual co-pilot being the closest thing to the old Demonic Co-pilot. Would you also combine it with one of the other powers listed here - one that lets you share shapeshifting powers (basically statting out the spirit as a separate NPC)? Or would you take human Form and have the spiritual co-pilot only affect you while shape-shifted. There's nothing here that lets you trade Powers for debt , which is how I see a Hexenwolf working.
So maybe I'm completely missing something here.
Gaining powers temporarily and paying for them with Sponsor Debt is already covered in the RAW. All it requires is narrative justification.
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My remaining objections to Spiritual Co-Pilot in particular have already been voiced, noted, and rejected.
I'll take a read through the other powers over the next while.
Sorry and thanks.
I don't really see how any of these powers allow you to play something like a Hexenwolf...
I'm confused.
You don't need Powers to buy temporary Powers with debt, or at least you shouldn't. Which is good, because neither Demonic Co-Pilot nor Spiritual Co-Pilot does anything even slightly like that.
Hexenwolves have IoP, Beast Change, Echoes Of The Beast, Limitation/Human Form, Inhuman Strength, Inhuman Speed, Natural Weaponry/Claws, Pack Instincts, maybe Demonic Co-Pilot/Spiritual Co-Pilot.
That's what OW says, and it's a pretty good model.
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Sorry and thanks.
I'm confused.
You don't need Powers to buy temporary Powers with debt, or at least you shouldn't. Which is good, because neither Demonic Co-Pilot nor Spiritual Co-Pilot does anything even slightly like that.
Hexenwolves have IoP, Beast Change, Echoes Of The Beast, Limitation/Human Form, Inhuman Strength, Inhuman Speed, Natural Weaponry/Claws, Pack Instincts, maybe Demonic Co-Pilot/Spiritual Co-Pilot.
That's what OW says, and it's a pretty good model.
Pretty much my thoughts too. Nothing about the hexen-beasts is much different mechanically from a standard were-form. They still just shape shift and gain powers based on the form. They are supposed to be a little tougher than a normal animal of the same type. I think the +1 bonus option of co-pilot represents it fairly well
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I'm confused.
You don't need Powers to buy temporary Powers with debt, or at least you shouldn't. Which is good, because neither Demonic Co-Pilot nor Spiritual Co-Pilot does anything even slightly like that.
Hexenwolves have IoP, Beast Change, Echoes Of The Beast, Limitation/Human Form, Inhuman Strength, Inhuman Speed, Natural Weaponry/Claws, Pack Instincts, maybe Demonic Co-Pilot/Spiritual Co-Pilot.
That's what OW says, and it's a pretty good model.
Yeah, I'm confused too. I never liked how Demonic Co-pilot worked because of how it only gave a +1 to skills. I thought the struggle between the Demon and the Host should be tied more to the powers it offered (the shapeshifting, enhanced speed etc..) I don't want to derail this thread with inane questions, but I'm going to have a player/NPC wanting to something similar to Demonic Co-pilot/HExenwolves...so naturally I came to the Rewrite looking for better options. I can ask the question in another thread.
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Yeah, I'm confused too. I never liked how Demonic Co-pilot worked because of how it only gave a +1 to skills. I thought the struggle between the Demon and the Host should be tied more to the powers it offered (the shapeshifting, enhanced speed etc..) I don't want to derail this thread with inane questions, but I'm going to have a player/NPC wanting to something similar to Demonic Co-pilot/HExenwolves...so naturally I came to the Rewrite looking for better options. I can ask the question in another thread.
My suggestion and prefered method is to simply allow access to and encourage the use of the Sponsor Debt rules, including the Temporary Powers rules funded by Debt.
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Yeah, I'm confused too. I never liked how Demonic Co-pilot worked because of how it only gave a +1 to skills. I thought the struggle between the Demon and the Host should be tied more to the powers it offered (the shapeshifting, enhanced speed etc..) I don't want to derail this thread with inane questions, but I'm going to have a player/NPC wanting to something similar to Demonic Co-pilot/HExenwolves...so naturally I came to the Rewrite looking for better options. I can ask the question in another thread.
What you want is quite reasonable, but it's got little to do with Demonic Co-Pilot...so the rewrite really isn't going to help.
Tedronai's suggestion is a good one. If you find it unsatisfying, you'll have to write a Power of your own. I suspect it might look a bit like Feeding Dependency.
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What you want is quite reasonable, but it's got little to do with Demonic Co-Pilot...so the rewrite really isn't going to help.
Tedronai's suggestion is a good one. If you find it unsatisfying, you'll have to write a Power of your own. I suspect it might look a bit like Feeding Dependency.
Yeah, originally I figured it would work something like Feeding Dependancy but, as I've read in other threads, what do you do with a take-out result? Does the player lose control of their character? If so, for how long? etc..etc...
And how Feeding Dependancy works, I don't like the consequences of a Taken Out result: skipping a scene etc.. I like the sponsored debt method you've presented in Spiritual Co-pilot.
My issue with only using sponsored debt only for powers is that a struggle only exists if the person has the FP's to buy off compels and it has little to do with a persons discipline or conviction. If shape-shifting is their main Schtick, aren't they going to going to wrack up debt super quickly?
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My issue with only using sponsored debt only for powers is that a struggle only exists if the person has the FP's to buy off compels and it has little to do with a persons discipline or conviction. If shape-shifting is their main Schtick, aren't they going to going to wrack up debt super quickly?
If they access all of their powers through the temporary powers rules, yes, they will rack up debt incredibly quickly.
I recommend the player having made several long-term deals/'purchases' represented by refresh expenditure, and then 'supplementing' those powers with scenario-specific debt-fuelled upgrades.
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It just occurred to me: don't Dresden spirits become solid in the Nevernever?
Or am I misremembering?
I kinda hope they don't, it'd be a pain to represent. I could use the Involuntary upgrade, I suppose, but it seems un-nice to charge Refresh.
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I don't have the book handy, but I'd suggest checking the Agatha Hagglethorn incident for an answer to that.
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It just occurred to me: don't Dresden spirits become solid in the Nevernever?
Or am I misremembering?
I kinda hope they don't, it'd be a pain to represent. I could use the Involuntary upgrade, I suppose, but it seems un-nice to charge Refresh.
IIRC It's a bit vauge. It's mildly suggested that in the NN ghosts are solid entities. Though you never actually see a ghost interact with a living entity in the NN unless, like in the case of Hagglethorn, something already happened that would cause it to manifest. Everything else in the books is ghost to ghost so to speak.
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It just occurred to me: don't Dresden spirits become solid in the Nevernever?
Or am I misremembering?
Not sure they become physical / solid, but I do seem to remember that's where you're supposed to be if you want to kill them permanently...
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A resounding maybe!
Seems like a good excuse not to change anything.
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If nobody says anything more about this over the weekend, I'll probably do a list update with it.