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McAnally's (The Community Pub) => Author Craft => Topic started by: jamesp81 on August 30, 2012, 04:05:38 PM
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Did you just start writing, or did you take formal creative writing classes at a local college, did you have a mentor, or was it something else?
I'm really curious about this. I'm an aspiring writer, but I find that my work is....not that great. And I don't really know how to improve, to be honest. I can be writing something and it might seem decent, then I go and read something by a real pro (like Jim Butcher) and it's kind of depressing to realize how poor my work really is. I want to improve, I just don't know how to do it.
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I'm still unpublished and without an agent. :-)
If, however, you like Jim's work, then go here. He's given us his lessons on writing. Read from oldest to the newest.
http://jimbutcher.livejournal.com/
Welcome to our forum corner!
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I'm still unpublished and without an agent. :-)
If, however, you like Jim's work, then go here. He's given us his lessons on writing. Read from oldest to the newest.
http://jimbutcher.livejournal.com/
Welcome to our forum corner!
My advice is to hang around places like this, with communities of people focused on the same things you are.
Hurog.com is another one. Ilona andrew's site is a third.
The Best one that helped me, now I'm self pulblished so grain of salt here. I'm only going to make 500 bucks off my book this month. Is to spend time at the slush pile on bar.baen.com. There you can share your work with other hopefuls and not have to compare yourself every day to the top of our field, at least not until you're ready.
The Deposed King
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I don't have any formal training in creative writing. My first novel's due out on November 6th.
I think the most important thing to have access to is a source of feedback that will be both objective and constructive. Someone who will just point out your flaws is no better for you than someone who insists everything you write is pure gold. What you need is discourse, people you can engage with and work with to improve your writing.
Classes and writing groups are a good way to find potential critique partners. One thing to consider is National Novel-Writing Month (http://www.nanowrimo.org/), which is coming up in November. I know a lot of people who've made some good friends through and even completed novels which stand a chance at publication.
One bit of advice I'll give you is don't compare your work to someone else's too readily. You'll have to develop your own unique style and what one author is great at, you might be weak at. That's okay. Also remember that a published book has gone through as much as a year of editing and re-writes to get it ready for publication. Whether a book is self-published or through a publishing house, what you see when you buy the final version has likely gone through significant changes from the first draft.
It's okay for your first draft to suck. In fact, it's almost better if you think it does, because you'll be more open to making changes. The important thing is to first get the book written.
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My advice is to hang around places like this, with communities of people focused on the same things you are.
Hurog.com is another one. Ilona andrew's site is a third.
The Best one that helped me, now I'm self pulblished so grain of salt here. I'm only going to make 500 bucks off my book this month. Is to spend time at the slush pile on bar.baen.com. There you can share your work with other hopefuls and not have to compare yourself every day to the top of our field, at least not until you're ready.
The Deposed King
Question for you. I assume you posted snippets of your novel on Baen's, and possibly other, forums. Would this cause any problems getting published the traditional way? I know you're self-published, but I wondered if you had any insight on that.
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Quote from Wordmaker:
It's okay for your first draft to suck. In fact, it's almost better if you think it does, because you'll be more open to making changes. The important thing is to first get the book written.
This, so very much. Personal computers make it a breeze, too. The first complete full-length fiction I wrote was typed up manually and got covered with so many scribblings, cross-outs, and revisions that I doubt anyone else could have understood it. Also, aping someone else's style is a natural part of the learning process, as Stephen King points out in On Writing (one of the best resources I've ever read on the subject, BTW) but if you keep at it, eventually your own style will start to emerge.
Like the Deposed King, I'm self-published. I've had no formal training apart from your basic English courses, but I've been reading and writing most of my life--pretty much as long as I've known how--and while I couldn't diagram a sentence to save my life, I know the rules of grammar and have a pretty good grasp of what works in a particular context and what doesn't.
Keep writing. Keep reading--good books, so you have something to aspire to, and bad ones, so you know what not to do. Listen to real people talk, in real life. Experience stuff. Do your research.
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I don't have any formal training in creative writing. My first novel's due out on November 6th.
I think the most important thing to have access to is a source of feedback that will be both objective and constructive. Someone who will just point out your flaws is no better for you than someone who insists everything you write is pure gold. What you need is discourse, people you can engage with and work with to improve your writing.
Classes and writing groups are a good way to find potential critique partners. One thing to consider is National Novel-Writing Month (http://www.nanowrimo.org/), which is coming up in November. I know a lot of people who've made some good friends through and even completed novels which stand a chance at publication.
One bit of advice I'll give you is don't compare your work to someone else's too readily. You'll have to develop your own unique style and what one author is great at, you might be weak at. That's okay. Also remember that a published book has gone through as much as a year of editing and re-writes to get it ready for publication. Whether a book is self-published or through a publishing house, what you see when you buy the final version has likely gone through significant changes from the first draft.
It's okay for your first draft to suck. In fact, it's almost better if you think it does, because you'll be more open to making changes. The important thing is to first get the book written.
Good advice. I'm actually a member of Nanowrimo, but last year's project didn't go anywhere. I think I have more motivation this year. We will see.
It's good to know that the first draft isn't required to be pure gold.
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You should see some of my first drafts! I've even had to start a near-complete re-write of my second novel to make it work better, and the first edit I had to do on my first book was to cut the first 50 pages and put any important information from it elsewhere in the book.
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Did you just start writing, or did you take formal creative writing classes at a local college, did you have a mentor, or was it something else?
I'm really curious about this. I'm an aspiring writer, but I find that my work is....not that great. And I don't really know how to improve, to be honest. I can be writing something and it might seem decent, then I go and read something by a real pro (like Jim Butcher) and it's kind of depressing to realize how poor my work really is. I want to improve, I just don't know how to do it.
All the instruction in the world can't replace some could constructive feedback. There are a number of forums out there where you can submit work samples and get feed back. I've found if you can find one or two people you can go back and forth with, it saves a lot of time.
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(snip) I'm only going to make 500 bucks off my book this month. (snip)The Deposed King
That's still pretty impressive for a self-published book! Not to hijack this thread, but maybe you could start another one with some tips for marketing your work. Pretty please?
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That's still pretty impressive for a self-published book! Not to hijack this thread, but maybe you could start another one with some tips for marketing your work. Pretty please?
Honestly, I'm not sure I'm the greatest example of what to do.
I hired an artist and my cover isn't the greatest thing ever.
I worked on my blurb and the first chapter of my book for several hours a day for a couple days.
I put out the word on the three main book sites I frequent. FYI - my book is out!!!
Then uploaded it. My book started out with like 2-4 sales a day for 2 weeks then dropped down to 1 sale a day for the next two months.
I'd just about figured that was where my book was going to live when, with basically no explaination, it took off. Doubling every week for several and then 50% increases until it slowed down to the 50 sales a day mark.
I don't know that I have a whole heck of a lot to offer?
HAve to think about it.
The Deposed King
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I think it helps when you start to build up some positive feedback. Many on Amazon won't buy anything self published until they can read what other people think. Btw, I finally downloaded your book a week or two ago and thoroughly enjoyed it.
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Honestly, I'm not sure I'm the greatest example of what to do.
I hired an artist and my cover isn't the greatest thing ever.
I worked on my blurb and the first chapter of my book for several hours a day for a couple days.
I put out the word on the three main book sites I frequent. FYI - my book is out!!!
Then uploaded it. My book started out with like 2-4 sales a day for 2 weeks then dropped down to 1 sale a day for the next two months.
I'd just about figured that was where my book was going to live when, with basically no explaination, it took off. Doubling every week for several and then 50% increases until it slowed down to the 50 sales a day mark.
I don't know that I have a whole heck of a lot to offer?
HAve to think about it.
The Deposed King
Have you done a google search on 'Admiral Who' lately to see what comes up? And wonder why they're getting traffic?
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Have you done a google search on 'Admiral Who' lately to see what comes up? And wonder why they're getting traffic?
Well I started my own little free blog with google. Then transferred to a real website and had it SEO optimized and all that after it started taking off. But wasn't really getting any traffic anywhere until after my sales started shooting up.
The Deposed King
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Well I started my own little free blog with google. Then transferred to a real website and had it SEO optimized and all that after it started taking off. But wasn't really getting any traffic anywhere until after my sales started shooting up.
The Deposed King
Your reviews have been good, which helps. And you have more than a few cross links between different sites, which also helps. Add in the social media links and you've got a good combination.
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All the instruction in the world can't replace some could constructive feedback. There are a number of forums out there where you can submit work samples and get feed back. I've found if you can find one or two people you can go back and forth with, it saves a lot of time.
I have some concerns about posting samples of a work I want to publish on a public forum.
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www.absolutewrite.com (http://www.absolutewrite.com) The forums here will give you more incite and knowledge that just about anything else out there. They also have specific password protected forums for sharing your work for critique.
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www.absolutewrite.com (http://www.absolutewrite.com) The forums here will give you more incite and knowledge that just about anything else out there. They also have specific password protected forums for sharing your work for critique.
What are the chances that a publisher might refuse to publish my work if they know parts of it were posted to an internet forum?
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It's a password protected section specifically for posting your work. It does not count as published. It requires a minimum 50 post count on the forum which you can get easily by asking questions, taking part in discussions, or visiting the SYW (Share Your Work) section and reviewing other peoples writing. No publisher will take note of it as long as it is posted in the password protected section, because it does not count as published.
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What are the chances that a publisher might refuse to publish my work if they know parts of it were posted to an internet forum?
Well the Baen publishing house has its own online forum where they have set aside an entire section for young hopefuls to post their stuff for review by other young hopefuls. The editing staff doesn't generally go there, but if you are looking for reviews....
Can't imagine they'd set up a section of baenbar.com for you to post your stuff and then turn around and reject you for doing so.
Don't know about the other major publishers, since they tend to be dianasaurs.
The Deposed King
the Deposed King
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As far as marketing goes, I just signed up for Publishers Weekly Select, which advertises and reviews self-published books. My nephew, also a writer, works for them and says he can make sure my novel gets sent out for review. Unfortunately, there is a $149 fee (no, it's not one of those scams where you pay for a positive review!) and I figure if it gets me some much-needed publicity, it may be worth the effort.
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As far as marketing goes, I just signed up for Publishers Weekly Select, which advertises and reviews self-published books. My nephew, also a writer, works for them and says he can make sure my novel gets sent out for review. Unfortunately, there is a $149 fee (no, it's not one of those scams where you pay for a positive review!) and I figure if it gets me some much-needed publicity, it may be worth the effort.
I'm not even close to that part yet ;D
Though I do dread it. Rejection letters, long waits, and then if it gets accepted, all the accounting, taxes, and other mountains of paperwork that will go with it. Makes my head hurt just thinking about it, but I'm not quite there yet.
I've worked on novels before and I've never finished one...but I feel good about this one. This one will get finished. Might not ever get published, but it will get finished.
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I have some concerns about posting samples of a work I want to publish on a public forum.
What are the chances that a publisher might refuse to publish my work if they know parts of it were posted to an internet forum?
Depending on the site, there is usually some level of protection. Areas where you can publish work are often limited to members only. Some sites have protected areas, where only those you specify can access your work.
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Well the Baen publishing house has its own online forum where they have set aside an entire section for young hopefuls to post their stuff for review by other young hopefuls. The editing staff doesn't generally go there, but if you are looking for reviews....
Can't imagine they'd set up a section of baenbar.com for you to post your stuff and then turn around and reject you for doing so.
Don't know about the other major publishers, since they tend to be dianasaurs.
The Deposed King
the Deposed King
Isn't the current address bar.bean.com (http://bar.baen.com/) for the bar over at bean.
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Isn't the current address bar.bean.com (http://bar.baen.com/) for the bar over at bean.
You're right. Must have had a dyslexic moment.
The Deposed King
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You're right. Must have had a dyslexic moment.
The Deposed King
.esoth dah ev'I
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Getting here a bit late,
I write with my wife. We got started when I was ambushed at a World Con room party in Anaheim, I didn't escape until we were committed to two articles and a short story.
In the intervening years we have ended up as SFWA members, lots and lots of paid work, and a number of novels on the "submission go round".
Writers write, everything else if frosting on the cupcake.
Formal training is nice, however many successful authors never spent a day in class, for writing...
So write, then write some more, and then (you got it) get it written down. (Grin)
Regards,
Kevin