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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: vonpenguin on March 03, 2012, 12:55:15 PM

Title: Crossover central
Post by: vonpenguin on March 03, 2012, 12:55:15 PM
Hello. I’m taking on a project to meld several series that I enjoy into one world for the purposes of running a game. As you can imagine while some things are natural (Dresdenverse’s ventori Umboriam folds nicely into Buffy’s watchers which folds into Highlander’s watchers) some are a good deal more difficult (Supernatural’s demon’s are nothing like Dresden’s for example.). I was wondering if anyone had any real insights into doing something like this. Or would like to collaborate somewhat on this?

For the record Dresden files will be the “primary” fandom I’m working with, with elements taken from the following:

Highlander
Supernatural
Buffy/Angel
Sanctuary (possibly)

Thanks for reading.
Title: Re: Crossover central
Post by: UmbraLux on March 03, 2012, 01:45:37 PM
Quote from: vonpenguin on March 03, 2012, 12:55:15 PM
I was wondering if anyone had any real insights into doing something like this. Or would like to collaborate somewhat on this?
Incorporating pieces from other fiction into a DF game is easy as long as the whole group buys into it.  Don't "bait and switch" the players though - that seldom ends well.

Why do you think Supernatural's demons don't transfer well?  I'd emphasize the 'fallen angel' (of varying degrees) and de-emphasize the 'Nevernever denizen', but don't remember anything from Supernatural which wouldn't fit.  Both may well exist.
Title: Re: Crossover central
Post by: vonpenguin on March 03, 2012, 01:57:46 PM
Well Dresden files has two types of "demon's" You have your fallen like the Nickelheads and your standard Nevernever nasty like Chauncey. Supernatural demons are rather different from either; they are corrupted human souls that take over those that are susceptible. I suppose presenting them as a form of shade would work to a degree, though in that case the "educated" would probably find people calling them demons to be very wide of the mark.
Title: Re: Crossover central
Post by: UmbraLux on March 03, 2012, 02:18:50 PM
Quote from: vonpenguin on March 03, 2012, 01:57:46 PM
Well Dresden files has two types of "demon's" You have your fallen like the Nickelheads and your standard Nevernever nasty like Chauncey.
Two types we've seen.   ;)  Remember, we see the DF world primarily through a single individual's point of view - and his observations are canonically unreliable.  Having more things out there isn't much of a stretch.  GS Spoiler:
(click to show/hide)

Quote
Supernatural demons are rather different from either; they are corrupted human souls that take over those that are susceptible. I suppose presenting them as a form of shade would work to a degree, though in that case the "educated" would probably find people calling them demons to be very wide of the mark.
Sure, wouldn't be the first thing either.  Those same scholars will probably differentiate between therianthropy, skin walkers, types of possession or symbiotes, and all the other possibilities lumped under the "werewolf" label.   :)

Don't let terminology stop you!
Title: Re: Crossover central
Post by: Vargo Teras on March 03, 2012, 04:08:22 PM
Possibility for merger: the demons of Supernatural are what happens to anyone who actually sells their soul to one of the demons of Downbelow.  The more powerful of them can in turn accept souls, being self-propagating in a way the demons of Downbelow neither match nor anticipated.
Title: Re: Crossover central
Post by: TheMouse on March 03, 2012, 04:35:09 PM
The key to a crossover like this is to avoid trying to cram absolutely everything from every setting into what you're doing. Focus is important to avoid a huge mess.

I'd start with a short list of things from each setting that you'd consider the most important. Then work on getting those primary elements working together well. This is the key stage, because if you can't get the elements you most want to include to work together, you need to rethink your goals.

Then, once you have the major things established, you can start finding less important things. If any of these conflict with what you've got and there's not an easy fix you like, toss them out the window. They're all bonus material, so it doesn't matter if you don't include much.
Title: Re: Crossover central
Post by: Ghsdkgb on March 03, 2012, 06:11:32 PM
Buffy's vampires and demons fit really well with the Dresdenverse, with vamps being Red Court and demons being the Nevernever variety (Jim being a fan of Buffy probably had something to do with this).

Supernatural's vamps, no so much. They're close, but it's probably best to just handwave them into standard Red Court, unless you want to introduce another Court that's sort of like Red Court but different.

The Hunters from Supernatural would be cool, though. Harry has no reason to have ever met them, but splinter groups of pure mortals going after demons and baddies would be a great dynamic to throw in.
Title: Re: Crossover central
Post by: dbrowne1974 on March 03, 2012, 07:23:03 PM
I've been thinking of a way to fold in the Demons from Supernatural, but haven't had any luck.  Hunters are easy, just Pure Mortals with a basic understanding of Thaumaturgy, just enough to bind and exorcise a Demon.  In the series, with the exception of knowing how to make some charms they really don't know whole bunch about magic.
Title: Re: Crossover central
Post by: TheMouse on March 03, 2012, 10:27:21 PM
Quote from: dbrowne1974 on March 03, 2012, 07:23:03 PM
I've been thinking of a way to fold in the Demons from Supernatural, but haven't had any luck. 

It seems easy to me.

Demons are just like they are in Supernatural. Don't change anything. They make deals for souls, etc.

There are also Fallen. These are just the way they are in Dresden. Since they most likely don't interact much with demons, and they are mostly stuck on Earth, there's really no conflict. The Fallen can generally beat the crap out of demons, and demons would mostly be terrified of them for that, as well as in awe of them for being the siblings of the Lightbringer.

Outsiders are the way they are in Dresden. Someone who didn't know better might call them demons, but they're not. They're more rare, more frightening, and from somewhere else. Still no conflict.

Buffyverse demons aren't terribly difficult either. They're corporeal monsters from another dimension. People call them demons and the dimension Hell, but it doesn't really matter that they're wrong.

Hellgods are things that rule these other dimensions. With the exception of Glory, they basically never ever come to Earth, so you can hand wave them. They're basically gods of the other dimension If you wanted to include something like Glory, it'd just be a Hellgod bound by powerful magics into flesh and trapped here, so you get to make up the rules of the curse and make a unique creature that's likely in the same rough ballpark as the Fallen.

The Old Ones from Buffy are basically gods. With the exception of Illyria, they're almost entirely dead or gone. Don't worry about them.

That stuff all fits together basically seamlessly. The one place you get a hiccup is DF demons, if you want to make them denizens of Hell. Because we've already got a place we're calling Hell. So just call this Hell a place in the Nevernever, and these demons are basically Nevernever spirits that like to call themselves demons because they know it messes with people.

So we've got "demons" living in three "Hells." One is a corporeal realm beyond the closest layer of the Nevernever, one is an incorporeal realm in the Nevernever, and one is "somewhere else," a place that the dead go when they've sold their souls; this last one seems closest to what a Christian would understand as Hell, but the other two would very likely look the part.

Then you've got malicious spirits, damned souls, and corporeal entities, along with the Fallen, a couple varieties of what amount to gods, and Outsiders. It's a little busy, but compare it with old school D&D with its many outer planes and stuff that lives there.
Title: Re: Crossover central
Post by: Vargo Teras on March 03, 2012, 11:44:44 PM
Quote from: TheMouse on March 03, 2012, 10:27:21 PM
The one place you get a hiccup is DF demons, if you want to make them denizens of Hell. Because we've already got a place we're calling Hell. So just call this Hell a place in the Nevernever, and these demons are basically Nevernever spirits that like to call themselves demons because they know it messes with people.
This may be one of the reasons that Harry tends to call it Downbelow rather than Hell.