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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: JediDresden on February 26, 2012, 06:24:51 PM
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When I first started playing DFRPG I was a wizard apprentice and one of his aspects was My Family's Ruby Pendant. I did not have anything in mind other than a good story hook for the GM, which I am proud to say he used in the course of the adventure. It ended up providing a bonus to resist Outsider Magic, it was on the fly and I can't remember the specifics behind it.
I have since pulled out the character again and am using him in a new game with a new GM and group. I want to model it as something other than an aspect, but it doesn't really work as an enchanted item, so I was thinking of an IoP. I have not really made up many IoP before and the ones I have made have all been weapons. So I need some help from the Forum, please.
I think something that might include Supernatural Senses to sense Outsider Magic, but also some protection against it as well - maybe a toughness vs only Outsider Magic? I don't know.
I have only 1 maybe 2 refresh to spend on it. We are playing about 5 yrs later, so he is not an apprentice and he has some more refresh to spend. I know it is a different game, but I tend to think more about the character's story - so I have a continuous timeline in my head regarding this character.
Anyway, any help would be great. Thanks guys.
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In what way did it protect the character before? Was it a physical attack, mental? Did it lessen the effects, or make the attack not hit?
There's different ways of going about it depending on how it's been shown to work.
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I can't really remember, we kind of did it on the fly in the middle of an session, I think it was just a +2 (aspect tag) to defense vs. Outsider magic (a physical attack if memory serves). At least that's what I remember.
Since it is a new game it does not have to be exact - but some type of protection vs outsider magic. I might have to look in OW - in White Night on of the guys Harry and Carlos fight has an item that protects him from magic, right? That might be a place to start.
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In the rulebook, that item in WN is depicted as being Physical Immunity toward magic.
At those levels...I'd say maybe Inhuman or Supernatural toughness, with the catch being "Anything but Outsider Magic," which oughta be worth the +3 discount.
Alternately, attach a couple minor homebrewed abilities to codify that +2 bonus to defenses, using the powers/stunts guidelines to price it out.
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So this is off the top of my head, but what about something like this:
IoP [-1]
[+1] One Time Discount: An amulet is easy to hide.
- It is what it is - an amulet that is a family heirloom.
[0] Unbreakable - except by perverting its purpose.
[-4] Supernatural Toughness
[+3] Catch - Toughness only applies to Outsider Magic.
[-1] Supernatural Senses - to see Outsider 'auras'
Does that look right?
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Sorry. Something happened in the formatting.
It is what it is - was suppose to be a - cost, not a bullet point.
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IoP [-1]- [+1] One Time Discount: An amulet is easy to hide.
- It is what it is - a ruby pendant & family heirloom.
- Unbreakable - except by perverting its purpose.
- [-4] Supernatural Toughness
- [+3] Catch - Toughness only applies to Outsider Magic.
- [-1] Supernatural Senses - to see Outsider 'auras'
Modified the format a bit, but it looks reasonable.
Here's another potential version:- [+1] One Time Discount: An amulet is easy to hide.
- It is what it is - a ruby pendant & family heirloom.
- Unbreakable - except by perverting its purpose.
- [-1] Gate Closer - Gain the aspect "Gate Closer" and one tag whenever in the presence of an Outer Gate.
- [-1] Supernatural Senses - to see Outsider 'auras'
Or possibly: - [+1] One Time Discount: An amulet is easy to hide.
- It is what it is - a ruby pendant & family heirloom.
- Unbreakable - except by perverting its purpose.
- [-1] Grounded in Reality - Gain the aspect "Grounded in Reality" and one tag whenever in the presence of an outsider.
- [-1] Supernatural Senses - to see Outsider 'auras'
Or even: - [+1] One Time Discount: An amulet is easy to hide.
- It is what it is - a ruby pendant & family heirloom.
- Unbreakable - except by perverting its purpose.
- [-1] Anchored in Reality - May be used to put up a block against outsiders equal to your lore. This lasts one exchange but may be extended as if an evocation spell.
- [-1] Supernatural Senses - to see Outsider 'auras'
All depends on what type of flavor you want from it and how you want it to interact with the world / outsiders.
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Thanks! That is exactly the help I needed. I appreciate the ideas and variants, something to think about.
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You could probably kick the Toughness up to Mythic without increasing the cost. "Only against Outsider Magic" is likely worth +5, though that does depend on it being researchable.
PS: I recommend writing [-0] for things that cost 0 to avoid getting
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Well I only knew it had that power when it acted on its own in the presence of outsider magic, so I don't know if it would be re searchable or not.
Thanks for the tip - I'll remember that next time :).
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Well I only knew it had that power when it acted on its own in the presence of outsider magic, so I don't know if it would be re searchable or not.
Thanks for the tip - I'll remember that next time :).
Narrow 'Only protects against' should almost always be +2 on research-ability as, to qualify, it just needs to be trivial to identify something that bypasses the catch, and for 'Only protects against outsider magic', nearly any guess on what the catch is will provide you with something that bypasses it.
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Protecting against all mortal magic is worth +5 as a catch. In most cases, Outsider magic will be significantly less common than mortal magic, enough that I'd make it a +6 catch. Combine with the +1 for Item of Power, and you should be able to take Physical Immunity to Outsider Magic for a +1.
Remember that Outsider sharp and pointy teeth do not qualify as Outsider magic.
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I know. Thats why I like the gate closer power in one example. That fits really close to the story when he started out. But it also gave me a bonus to defend against their magic.
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Protecting against all mortal magic is worth +5 as a catch. In most cases, Outsider magic will be significantly less common than mortal magic, enough that I'd make it a +6 catch.
Unfortunately this does not work. "Mortal magic" already gets the max possible specific-ness bonus.
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Unfortunately this does not work. "Mortal magic" already gets the max possible specific-ness bonus.
Where is it stated that +5 is the maximum possible? The Catch states that one should add all relevant values from each of three categories, each of which can be up to +2; it seems like that indicates the maximum possible value of a catch should be +6.
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Unfortunately this does not work. "Mortal magic" already gets the max possible specific-ness bonus.
Where is the Mortal magic one described? I can only find Immunity to (mortal?) magic as a stacked catch on creatures that already have a +3 base catch. That leaves it having a few issues when it comes to being a definitive example of catch valuation. First, there is the (mortal?) specification (it may be broader than Harry knows). Second, the availability may be a bit tricky on account of the base toughness/recovery powers having a cold iron catch, thirdly, the stacked nature may make it harder to work out that there are two levels of effect in play, making the research portion +1. I believe it's the second issue that put's it at +5 instead of +6, but YMMV.
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Not going by examples here, examples are unreliable. I'm using the actual rules.
Specific-ness can only make a Catch worth +4. The other possible +2 comes from the public's knowledge. So immunity to the bites of four-year-old orphan girls with Mexican-British dual citizenship costs 4 if nobody knows about it.
Immunity to mortal magic protects against one thing and can be bypassed by anyone, so its Catch is worth +4 for specific-ness.
Doesn't make much sense, but it's the way it works.
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It's not so much from the public's knowledge as it is from how difficult it is to figure out. It's not at all difficult to figure out "anything but X," since anything they try aside from X will do the trick.
Think of it in terms of "what does a character have to do to figure out how to bypass the toughness." If just shooting literally anything except one specific thing will bypass the catch, then it's incredibly easy to get through it.
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Okay then, maybe "only against mortal magic" and "only against Outsider magic" should both be +6 Catches. That'd make OW wrong, but whatever. Doesn't change what I said at all.
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Okay then, maybe "only against mortal magic" and "only against Outsider magic" should both be +6 Catches. That'd make OW wrong, but whatever. Doesn't change what I said at all.
How would that make OW wrong? Per my previous message, the only examples in OW are stacked catches on a creature that has other toughness/recovery powers and a hard to bypass primary catch and aren't definitively just mortal magic. These issues may confound the costing and make them bad examples to judge the correct general costing of a simple catch that is bypassed by anything except mortal magic.
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The Grendelkin has an magic immunity (worded as "standard mortal magic or perhaps just fire", but it's still of 'equivalent specificness' as far as the rules go) pair with a +0 baseline Catch. So a magic-specific Stacked Catch is always priced at +5, regardless of baseline Catch. I'm assuming that all of them are priced exactly as the example used for Stacked Catches: +2 for specific, +2 because not-magic is common, and +1 because research uncovers it.
That said, OW and YS don't really seem to use the same rules all the time, so comparing examples isn't always a perfect solution. For example, by my read, the standard Fae Catch should probably be +4: +2 because iron is commonly available, and +2 because it's a trivial task to find info on the Catch by Googling it (assuming you didn't already know it). My best guess is that the second value is treated as +1 based on it not always being obvious that the individual is in fact Fae to begin with, but that's just an attempt at rationalizing it.
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Okay then, maybe "only against mortal magic" and "only against Outsider magic" should both be +6 Catches. That'd make OW wrong, but whatever. Doesn't change what I said at all.
Having a look at it, now I'm thinking that the +1 includes "throw something at them and see what sticks" as a form of research.
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Having a look at it, now I'm thinking that the +1 includes "throw something at them and see what sticks" as a form of research.
I'd argue that it should be +2 if the things that won't stick are things that most people wouldn't even try in the list. Mortal magic, while available to a limited number of people, is a thing that in most games will be on the short list of ways to deal with a supernatural opponent, about on the same tier as fire and bullets. Outsider magic is a thing that the overwhelming majority of groups, PC or NPC, wouldn't even be able to try, much less think of as a first recourse.