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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Shadowman17 on January 21, 2012, 09:38:20 PM
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Hey folks, I was wondering if someone could answer a question for me. I was looking through the Evil Acts case file recently, and one of the PCs has a couple focus items that confuse me. It's stated like this:
Focus Items
Bracelet made of hollow stones: +1 Offensive Control with Air; +1 Defensive Control with Earth
Magnifying Lens: +1 to both Complexity and Control with Divination
Now, shouldn't these items take up a total of five slots? The bracelet should be four (2 for the total bonuses x 2 for the number of elements). This character doesn't have any points in Refinement, so they should just have the four slots, correct? What am I missing? Sorry if this question has been asked and answered, but I couldn't find a thread about it. Any help would be appreciated.
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I don't remember there being anything in the rules about multiplying for extra elements.
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The number of slots an item uses is equal to the number of elements multiplied by the total of the bonuses (YS278).
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Hm.
The example they give in the rules is for an item that offers +1 offensive power and control to both fire and earth. That would, in effect, be giving four +1 bonuses.
I haven't read Evil Acts, but based off of your description, the bracelet is only giving two +1 bonuses.
Now, I'm not sure if the focus item is strictly legal, but it seems to be balanced properly.
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The number of slots an item uses is equal to the number of elements multiplied by the total of the bonuses (YS278).
The text is less than clear, that's certain. However, taking the paragraph's points in reverse order, we get the following:- A single focus item has one bonus value which applies to all relevant types & elements.
- Slots required equals bonus value times the number of elements / types.
So if the value is 1 and you have two elements, it takes two focus slots.
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Right, and the bracelet has one bonus for fire, one for earth, for a total of two, times two elements, for four slots. My issue (and I'm sorry for not stating this more clearly) is with the lens item. Where does the character get the space for that without points in Refinement?
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My apologies, I misunderstood - thought you were talking about pricing a single item at 4 slots. :-[ You're talking about the Sokolowski character correct? Looks like he has both Evocation and Thaumaturgy with two focus items from each. Total of four, two are Evo and two are Thaum.
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The problem with the bracelet isn't that it is undercosted at 2 slots, but that it breaks the rules by applying different bonuses to different elements.
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But shouldn't the bracelet by four slots in theory? My initial assessment was wrong. Both items together would take up six slots, not five.
The only way around this that I can see is if we consider the bracelet's bonuses to be added, not multiplied. One point in Offensive Control for Air for one slot plus one point in Defensive Control for Earth, not multiplied because the either bonus is for a single element, rather than applying to both. I can't find any language in Your Story that mentions a focus item like this.
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But shouldn't the bracelet by four slots in theory?
The bracelet is a value 1 focus which affects Offensive Control with Air and Defensive Control with Earth - two element types. So total cost is one (the focus value) times two (the number of element types) = two slots. That help?
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I guess I was counting the Offensive Control for Air and Defensive Control for Earth as two separate bonuses, with 1 point for each, totaling 2 points.
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The problem with the bracelet isn't that it is undercosted at 2 slots, but that it breaks the rules by applying different bonuses to different elements.
Yes. This is why the "Multiply bonus times elements" is giving an incongruously high number.
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Yes. This is why the "Multiply bonus times elements" is giving an incongruously high number.
Only if you count the bonus multiple times. ;)
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If it gives bonuses to two elements, it should gives all bonuses it gives to each of those two elements.
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The problem with the bracelet isn't that it is undercosted at 2 slots, but that it breaks the rules by applying different bonuses to different elements.
Where does it say that you can't do that?
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If it gives bonuses to two elements, it should gives all bonuses it gives to each of those two elements.
I think I agree...but since that's what the bracelet appears to be doing, I'm not certain I understand.
Where does it say that you can't do that?
YS278: "All bonuses of an item always apply to all of the types on the item: you can't have +2 complexity for necromancy and +1 complexity for wards in the same focus item, because the +2 complexity should apply to both..." Basically, a given focus item can only have one bonus value. It's either +1 or +2 but not both. Which is why multiplying that number by the number of element types is the focus slot cost.
It's one of several sections in the book which would have been clearer as a list instead of prose.
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Where does it say that you can't do that?
YS278:
"All bonuses of an item always
apply to all of the types on the item"
right-hand column, second-last paragraph
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So this item is just wrong then, correct?
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Why? Here it is for reference:
Bracelet made of hollow stones: +1 Offensive Control with Air; +1 Defensive Control with Earth
It's a +1 focus item which affects two element types and costs two focus slots.
Or do I have the wrong item?
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So this item is just wrong then, correct?
It's priced correctly for what it does; however, the rules are ambiguous as to whether particular effects would be allowable.