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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: zenten on September 07, 2011, 04:20:10 PM

Title: Does The Sight work through binoculars?
Post by: zenten on September 07, 2011, 04:20:10 PM
I see this being relevant in my next session.
Title: Re: Does The Sight work through binoculars?
Post by: wyvern on September 07, 2011, 04:31:16 PM
Debatable.  I'd tend to rule not - though you'd get a very good view of the true nature of those binoculars!

But I can also see this getting ruled the other way, too.  Consider also mirrors.
Title: Re: Does The Sight work through binoculars?
Post by: mstorer3772 on September 07, 2011, 04:31:28 PM
I'm going to say "no".  They're not looking with "their eyes & light" at that point, but with their spirit or magical senses, or what have you.

GS Spoiler
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Title: Re: Does The Sight work through binoculars?
Post by: Haru on September 07, 2011, 05:12:35 PM
Coming from shadowrun, I'd say everything involving actual optics is ok, technical image enhancement is not. But mstorer3772 makes a good point, they are not looking in the sense a shadowrun mage would look, they sense something with a sense that the human brain is not evolved to interpret and most wizards experience it as another kind of vision, but others interpret it as sound, odors, maybe some even feel it on their skin.

The wizard could however do a navel-gazing maneuver using discipline to focus his sight on something specific, so he could tag that for a better view, if need be.
Title: Re: Does The Sight work through binoculars?
Post by: noclue on September 07, 2011, 05:44:34 PM
no.
Title: Re: Does The Sight work through binoculars?
Post by: sinker on September 07, 2011, 06:59:40 PM
My inclination is to also say no. Binoculars work by focusing light. The sight is very clearly not light based as when used it often ignores darkness and light.
Title: Re: Does The Sight work through binoculars?
Post by: razorsmile on September 07, 2011, 07:12:36 PM
I think the first response got it right: the wizard would get a really good look at those binoculars.
Title: Re: Does The Sight work through binoculars?
Post by: polkaneverdies on September 07, 2011, 07:21:03 PM
I would also say no. Binoculars work by bending light around so things appear bigger when you look at them. This wouldn't help if you are viewing the hidden reality underneath the light.
 That said if your wizard has prep time you might consider letting him make a one shot(potion rules) binocular effect that would allow the sight from a distance.
Title: Re: Does The Sight work through binoculars?
Post by: Silverblaze on September 07, 2011, 08:01:46 PM
If it works for the narrative, sure.

Otherwise, I'd say no.  Simply for the reason technology and magic aren't supposed to work together. (WWII age or not)
Title: Re: Does The Sight work through binoculars?
Post by: zenten on September 07, 2011, 09:33:39 PM
Quote from: polkaneverdies on September 07, 2011, 07:21:03 PM
I would also say no. Binoculars work by bending light around so things appear bigger when you look at them. This wouldn't help if you are viewing the hidden reality underneath the light.
 That said if your wizard has prep time you might consider letting him make a one shot(potion rules) binocular effect that would allow the sight from a distance.

Yeah, it seems better for the plot here if they don't.  There's lots they're going to be able to learn just by regularly looking through them, but making them have to sneak up to Tessa's penthouse apartment to actually get an idea about the ward strength and whatnot seems more fun.
Title: Re: Does The Sight work through binoculars?
Post by: razorsmile on September 07, 2011, 09:45:52 PM
Quote from: Silverblaze on September 07, 2011, 08:01:46 PM
Otherwise, I'd say no.  Simply for the reason technology and magic aren't supposed to work together. (WWII age or not)

Given that we're talking about  binoculars, I must disagree. They're not exactly the most cutting-edge pieces of kit in the universe. A GM following that logic would have disallowed Harry and Butters using a warding circle to keep a GPS device usable.
Title: Re: Does The Sight work through binoculars?
Post by: computerking on September 07, 2011, 11:14:31 PM
Quote from: razorsmile on September 07, 2011, 09:45:52 PM
Given that we're talking about  binoculars, I must disagree. They're not exactly the most cutting-edge pieces of kit in the universe. A GM following that logic would have disallowed Harry and Butters using a warding circle to keep a GPS device usable.
And you'd have to ignore the fact that binoculars were invented in the 1800's...
Title: Re: Does The Sight work through binoculars?
Post by: UmbraLux on September 07, 2011, 11:56:12 PM
Quote from: zenten on September 07, 2011, 04:20:10 PM
I see this being relevant in my next session.
I'm tempted to treat Sight like vision in the IR spectrum and say "no"...but invoking the use of binoculars when defending against Sight or to make it more difficult to close your Sight is just as tempting.   ;)  The second is probably what I'd go with...it works but may be less effective and / or more dangerous in some situations. 
Title: Re: Does The Sight work through binoculars?
Post by: Silverblaze on September 08, 2011, 02:38:00 AM
Quote from: computerking on September 07, 2011, 11:14:31 PM
And you'd have to ignore the fact that binoculars were invented in the 1800's...

Sure, but using them as an avenue for a spell should hex them.  It'd be like using a car to shoot fireballs.  (Even a model-T)
Title: Re: Does The Sight work through binoculars?
Post by: Silverblaze on September 08, 2011, 02:39:09 AM
Quote from: razorsmile on September 07, 2011, 09:45:52 PM
Given that we're talking about  binoculars, I must disagree. They're not exactly the most cutting-edge pieces of kit in the universe. A GM following that logic would have disallowed Harry and Butters using a warding circle to keep a GPS device usable.

Not quite the same.  harry didn't try to use the GPS in place of his crystal to enhance a tracking spell.

I'll concede the point that there are work arounds, but it feels different in this case.
Title: Re: Does The Sight work through binoculars?
Post by: zenten on September 08, 2011, 02:50:50 AM
While I can see why The Sight wouldn't work through them binoculars are such simple devices that hexing them seems almost as silly as Harry hexing his staff by using it as a focus.
Title: Re: Does The Sight work through binoculars?
Post by: toturi on September 08, 2011, 02:57:38 AM
Does The Sight work through binoculars glasses(spectacles)/contact lens/magnifying glass/window/fog/mist/clear water?
Title: Re: Does The Sight work through binoculars?
Post by: Silverblaze on September 08, 2011, 03:13:19 AM
Quote from: toturi on September 08, 2011, 02:57:38 AM
Does The Sight work through binoculars glasses(spectacles)/contact lens/magnifying glass/window/fog/mist/clear water?

Points to this poster.  I'm almost convinced otherwise now. 

As for hexing things, I'm sort of a jerk about magic mixing with non magical things.  Take it with a grain; or more likely a bag of salt.
Title: Re: Does The Sight work through binoculars?
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 08, 2011, 04:07:42 AM
The Sight works just fine, but the binoculars don't help.

Because The Sight actually has nothing to do with sight, or with the science of optics.

The above is purely my opinion.
Title: Re: Does The Sight work through binoculars?
Post by: Valos on September 08, 2011, 05:42:47 AM
It will not work. Sight would not show you the binoculars in 1st place or at tops would show the true nature of the binoculars - last book has exelent example of this when harry - well i leave the spoiler out.

From last book I presume that sight only shows you sources of energy -> living beings, souls, ghost, laylines, magic (life!) etc and would dim out (outlines mayby? or nothing at all) on mundane objects like rocks, cars, walls.

Mayby if magical object would be made to do this? but consider this, you take a peek of military base from afar and see 40 souls at 1 time? I say it screams for sensory overflow big time.

-V-
Title: Re: Does The Sight work through binoculars?
Post by: Rubycon on September 08, 2011, 06:07:41 AM
I'm sure it will work. Using the Sight includes opening your "Third Eye", which is located on your forehead. Would be funny glasses to cover your third eye... :D
Title: Re: Does The Sight work through binoculars?
Post by: noclue on September 08, 2011, 07:46:06 AM
Quote from: toturi on September 08, 2011, 02:57:38 AM
Does The Sight work through binoculars glasses(spectacles)/contact lens/magnifying glass/window/fog/mist/clear water?
Sure. Except the Magnifying Glass doesn't make anything bigger.
Title: Re: Does The Sight work through binoculars?
Post by: braincraft on September 08, 2011, 07:57:43 AM
The Sight canonically is not a literally visual sense (at least not purely so) and works even in the dark, with eyes closed, and probably while blind. Optical devices wouldn't affect it much, if at all.
Title: Re: Does The Sight work through binoculars?
Post by: mstorer3772 on September 08, 2011, 04:52:19 PM
Quote from: toturi on September 08, 2011, 02:57:38 AM
Does The Sight work through binoculars glasses(spectacles)/contact lens/magnifying glass/window/fog/mist/clear water?

I'd say that if the character thinks they can see, then they can see.  This is magic, belief MATTERS.