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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: aardvark on August 23, 2011, 01:06:00 PM
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So i obviously have a problem at GMing DF and Fate as it is. For an 4 hour session with 3 players i will make 2 compels, at my best. An it is a problem because players did not get steady flow of Fate Points. And after time they getting more passive and cautious.
This really frustrate me. Obviously i am not trying hard enough, so any of you can help me with some words?
PS. I have large GM experience with non Fate systems and about 5-7 games with Fate ones.
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Tips for you as GM: make a note with everyone's Aspects, so you can keep easy track of them. Or at least, more easily :)
For the players, perhaps you could set up a bit of a reward system in which they help you by self-compelling, or noting when others can be compelled. This will ask for interaction between you and the players and give you tips on when you can compel.
Perhaps others with more experience will have more tips.
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Can you post the PCs aspects, and examples of stuff that has happened in game?
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I would strongly recommend having a cheat sheet with all the characters aspects on it. I second the notion that you should encourage self compels and players nominating each other for self compels. They will probably be better at thinking of it than you once they see the benefit to doing it.
Don't forget to compel scene aspects as well. They tend to be a lot easier to remember if you are having trouble keeping track of the all of the character's aspects.
One example from Fred Hicks that I really like was in an "old and busted house" a compel to fall through a "weak floor" into the basement. It is simple and sucky for the character, but not earth shattering.
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First of all, let's get some perspective: are your players having fun? Then you're not bad at GMing.
I've had the same issue in the past. While I'm not sure how much my fixes will help, I'll share them with you.
The first thing I did was make up a little excel spread sheet of all my PCs aspects and keep it handy while I was planning the session, and again during the game itself. I don't know what your prep process is like, but when you're coming up with your plots consider how you'll employ the aspects in the game. Also, having the list there at hand will help during the actual session as well.
Second, feel free to discuss changing the aspects with your group. When we were putting the group together we got a little too sucked into pithy or poetic aspects rather than useful ones. If you have no idea how to compel an aspect feel free to talk to the players and ask them either how they intended it to be compelled or, if they agree that it's a dud, go over how to fix it.
Finally, don't feel like every compel needs to be a perfect fit. I feel like the book does a bit of a disservice since all the compel examples are pretty much on the nose. If your players want fate points and understand that a game with complications is an interesting game you can always stretch their aspects a bit.
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My first thought was basically to get help from the players. Others have mentioned ways to do that already.
Second thing I thought of was possibly concentrating on one aspect per character. Whether you pull it out of a hat, pick it yourself or ask the players to nominate one of their own aspects, do whatever works. Just get one per PC and make sure you work a compel on it into the session. You can pair this with the idea of having the players help suggest compels against other aspects as well. The benefit here is you get to narrow down what you're doing and not drown yourself in options. The disadvantage is you may still skip some compels you could be making (no way to avoid this, you're learning), depending on how you pick the aspect the players may have advance notice of it which may or may not give part of your story away, and if you choose an aspect that's hard to use you may end up chasing your tail trying to use it or just outright fail to bring it into play at all.
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Self-compels, get your players too recommend when their aspects should come into play, also I recommend building your plot around your characters so their aspects come up a lot. I had one pc with the trouble sucker for a pretty face and so I made sure there were at least one femme fetale or DID per milestone.
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Masurao pretty much summed up the advice I would give. One thing I've had success with also is making sure that I pick one scene per session per character where I pick on one of the characters using compels making sure they get 2 or 3 fate points so they have them later when a bad shows up. It's made for some very fun times.
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Ok I had very similar problems when I first started running Dresden sense i had never run a fate system before. Here is what I did:
-First I made a cheat sheet with all the characters and and all their aspects on it.
-Then I promoted players self compelling... I even allowed multi-compels in situations where the compel applies to more then 1 aspect. Only problem was to many fate points started to flow so I also put a rule in that you could not compel your aspects more then once per scene. This limited the flow of fate points to a max of 7 per scene but usually more like 4-5.
-Next I started awarding fate points whenever players do things that are particularly inventive, heroic, or funny... i don't mean your character told a funny joke. More along the idea of your character was fighting an ogre and you took off running from the fight screaming like a little girl, to make the ogre think you're all super weak, and when he caught you, you shoved your grenade down the gullet of the ogre and lept away from him letting the internal explosion knock him out. Then you stand over him and declare, "Be careful what you eat, heartburn is a killer." Maybe something less cheesy lol. Other examples would be self sacrifice moves to save a party member, a plan that turns an encounter i have designed that should have been a slobberknocker into a easy situation, ect.
-I also allow my characters to make declarations that they have gotten to know another players character well enough to have figured out some of their aspects. If they seceded the appropriate roll then they learn some aspects and have the ability to compel each other by tagging the companions aspect and passing them a fate point. This works beautifully when the party wants to do a certain course of action but one player is holding out even though he has an aspect that would push him in that direction. By the players compelling each other vs me doing it, it gives the players the feeling that they have a certain amount of control with each other... like they can appeal to what they know of each other to convince one another to help each other. I find that better then the feeling that the world is out of your control because the god figure of the game (GM) tells you its gonna happen and hands you a fate point.
After doing these things I found that my characters have a steady flow of fate points and tend to hover between 3-6 in the bank at almost all times. Due to that they have started framing the scene more and spending them to do more daring heroic moves. I think it has made my games much more interesting.
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Another thing you can do is ask for more information from the players about how they would like their aspects to be used. When I write up a character I usually write up an additional aspect sheet in this format:
Trouble: "Who's your daddy? Azathoth's your daddy!"
Invoke: As a bonus to lore rolls via outsiders, as a bonus to lay the smack down, for effect to do something weird and outsiderish (but helpful).
Compel: Can be compelled to generate Raven (ala teen titans) style apocalyptic plot-lines, to make others distrustful of the character (I.E. "you're the son of an outsider? Get him!"), or just to make the character do something weird and outsiderish.
And then give it to the GM. Then they know exactly what the aspect means to me and how they should compel it. Additionally it may give them ideas for how to work it into things.
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A) Snake all their phases sheets at the start of each session and read them all the way through again.
B) Tell them you're having a hard time and they need to start bringing up self compels to get you into the swing of things. After a session or three like that it'll be easy to spot when a compel is warranted and they'll be more invested in the game to boot.
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Trouble: "Who's your daddy? Azathoth's your daddy!"
Great aspect name. It made me giggle. Which wierded out a customer, so bonus points to you.
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Another thing you can do is ask for more information from the players about how they would like their aspects to be used. When I write up a character I usually write up an additional aspect sheet in this format:
And then give it to the GM. Then they know exactly what the aspect means to me and how they should compel it. Additionally it may give them ideas for how to work it into things.
I just started reading in the Bulldog book and they do the same for pretty much every Aspect I've seen up until now :) It's in DFRPG too, where they practically tell you to think of three(?) uses of your aspect, one good, one bad and one mixed. Not only will this get the players attuned to their aspects and how to invoke them, but it gives you ideas on how to compel. Of course, don't forget to ask them to write it down :) And, I bet, if you do it together, the group will start handing out great examples in no time. (Especially when thinking about how to screw each other!)
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If you have a particular player who's extra-creative, has a lot of useful compels you just keep forgetting- speak to them before the next session... tell them their job for the session is to self-compel their head off. Once one player starts doing it, the others will catch on quick.
This happened in one of our games, incidentally- I was the player. It was a D20 MnM with it's own FP equivalent, but we liked FPs better so tacked Fate style aspects onto the system quite neatly... but no one was used to the idea. One game, I came across a few situations where we could have, and should have been earning them and spending them like mad... and one turn in particular, I was able to self-compel myself on several aspects at once (the act however, was likely to get myself killed if it failed)... and I went for it. The other players caught on quick, and the rest of the game went VERY well. (I didn't end up dying, but only because one of the other players was able to step in and save me... in part because of him following my lead).
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In addition to what's already been offered here, I have another:
Represent fate points with some inedible physical tokens that are easy to slide back and forth. Poker chips, Go/Pente stones, those glass beads from the bottom of your fish tank (ew), cheesy plastic coin pirate treasure bits, whatever.
Play with them absently while running the game. The idea here is that by keeping them In Hand, you're reminded of their existence and will Actually Use Them.
It also give something for your players to point at while self-compelling.
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That is an excellent point. Having them physically present would make it harder to space out about them.
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Trouble: "Who's your daddy? Azathoth's your daddy!"
Great aspect name. It made me giggle. Which wierded out a customer, so bonus points to you.
Thanks, I put a bit of effort into that one. It was a great game for a bit.
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yea in our game we use aqua gems... the stones from the bottom of a fish tank... just never been in a fish tank
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I keep my player Aspects on little index cards, and had them easily in hand during last night's game, but the plot wasn't requiring Compels to motivate the players. I tried one Compel that night and it was bought off immediately by a player who wanted to play it safe. I awarded another FP for someone who gave up valuable information and avoided a combat as a result, in accordance with one of his Aspects.
But we had a good time, advanced the plot, and now they are about to empty out a biker bar and knowingly cooperate with a poorly understood villain who plans to use them and several of their friends and allies as bait for a banished vengeance spirit.
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I'd think up two or three compels per character that I wanted to see in the next session and put that list next to me at the start of game. Then just start checking them off as you toss them into play. Add player shenanigans and stir.
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It's also quite possible that you're players aspects just aren't that... compelling.
Would you mind telling us what they are?
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Second the "tell us about your character(s)" (oh God what have I done). :)
And I also second (or third or fourth, whatever we're up to now) the "write your group's Aspects down on cards and keep them in front of you" trick. It works. I'll even ask my table questions like "All right, I'm Compelling Ben because of his X Aspect; if anyone else has something you think is applicable speak up."
We use spent brass* for FP; they make a satisfying tinkle when tossed on the table, and they're more visceral a token than glass beads.
*Note that it's spent brass. I am not advocating the use of live ammunition at a gaming setting, no matter how metal it might be.
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We use spent brass* for FP; they make a satisfying tinkle when tossed on the table, and they're more visceral a token than glass beads.
Damn. You completely derailed the bout of world building I had going tonight. Now I have to find something more awesome than the beer caps we normally use for FP tokens. Links off of a motorcycle chain maybe...
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Have your players hunt down varmin' and decorate their clean-boiled skulls, then use those as tokens... Not that I would ever have done such a thing myself, of course... I just know a guy, who knows a guy with a cousin, y'know...
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Wow! Thanks for your advices. Scene aspects is something i definetely forgot an thousand times.
So player aspects.
1. Bear wereform.
Werestudent-undergraduate
Life is not a game
I want to be a human again,
Life must be precise as clock
Riddles make my mind sane
Big claws - big resposability
Skin of the beast - mind of the beast
2. Pure Mortal with demon-copilot
Collector with demon in head
Hard childhood
I do not like rejects
All is accessible under pressure
Collecting is a serious business
My left hand is not mine realy
3. Erlking Knightess
Huntress of the Wild Hunt
I was sold before i was born
People are like beasts
Chosen by the Bow
It is not done yet
I do not wanna be a plaything
Survival is a harsh choices
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Yeah, some of those aspects I would have a hard time knowing how the players intended their use for compelling. Are you clear on how you should compel those or are you as confused as I am?
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1. Bear wereform.
Werestudent-undergraduate => "Werebear College Student" (otherwise easy to Compel/Invoke)
Life is not a game => phrased clearly enough, this one works
I want to be a human again => easy to Compel, almost impossible to Invoke for an advantage - maybe "Grasping Towards My Humanity"
Life must be precise as clock => could be tightened, but works => might be better as "Control Freak" or "Precise as Clockwork"
Riddles make my mind sane => could be rephrased as "Riddles Bring Me Peace" or "Riddles Relax Me"
Big claws - big resposability = > misspelled, but clear enough
Skin of the beast - mind of the beast => phrased clearly enough, this one works
2. Pure Mortal with demon-copilot
Collector with demon in head => Demonically Possessed Collector
Hard childhood => phrased clearly enough, this one works
I do not like rejects => phrased clearly enough, this one works
All is accessible under pressure => could be more clear, such as "The Crucible Reveals" or "Trial by Pressure"
Collecting is a serious business => phrased clearly enough, but somewhat bland
My left hand is not mine realy => phrased clearly enough, this one is great, but it could be better phrased as "Demonic Left Hand" or "[insert demon name]'s Left Hand."
3. Erlking Knightess
Huntress of the Wild Hunt => phrased clearly enough, this one works, though it could be "Veteran of the Wild Hunt" if she is not attached in a permanent capacity
I was sold before i was born => sounds nice, but I the context needs clarification... maybe "Sold to [insert name] Before I Was Born" to indicate a relationship to something specific, or "My Allegiance is Not My Own" to indicate a more chronic tendency to end up in obligations which seem like slavery
People are like beasts => phrased clearly enough, this one works
Chosen by the Bow => phrased clearly enough, though this one seems hard to Compel for any disadvantage, except for maybe limiting the player's willingness to use non-bow solutions to things.
It is not done yet => phrased clearly enough, this one works
I do not wanna be a plaything => phrased clearly enough, this one works
Survival is a harsh choices => I'd rephrase this to "Survival Requires Harsh Choices" or "Survival Always Costs Something"
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I don't see any problem invoking "I want to be human again" for an advantage as long as he's in a situation that is about his trying to become human. And he should be in those situations. That's what compels are for.
"Life is not a game" is harder to compel. You don't want to compel him to play it safe. That makes things boring. You need to turn it on it's head and compel him to take risks for big rewards. Effectively saying "isn't it?" and How about now?"
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I don't see any problem invoking "I want to be human again" for an advantage as long as he's in a situation that is about his trying to become human. And he should be in those situations. That's what compels are for.
If the GM is gearing up to offer the Werebear the capability to be a Pure Mortal again, sure, that Aspect can be Compelled and Invoked quite often. But Therianthropy - out of the box - is neither a reversible condition, nor, really a curse.
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If the GM is gearing up to offer the Werebear the capability to be a Pure Mortal again, sure, that Aspect can be Compelled and Invoked quite often. But Therianthropy - out of the box - is neither a reversible condition, nor, really a curse.
If he's wants to be human again, then the GM should work up compels around that. Offer "secret knowledge" at a price. Give tantalizing rumors about someone who knows how to rever the condition. Have Maeb show up and offer to fix things for a favor. Etc. Also, compels around the player trying to solve things without hulking out may be warranted too. Can he actually do it? Heck if I know.
Whenever the player is in a situation about trying to become human again or resist the temptation of transformation, that would seem to be a good time to invoke the aspect.
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So aardvark you should be able to come to the table with a list of a few compels for each character to use a jumping off point.
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This isn't necessarily your fault (I didn't read the whole thread but here goes anyway).
A lot of the work on compels can by stymied by poor aspects on your players, if all their aspects (excepting trouble because that explicitly requires it to be troublesome) are all beneficial, then it is much harder to find appropriate aspects.
A good way to counter this is recommend that all of your players have a Knowledge aspect, a social aspect, and a physical aspect (among seven, this isn't too restricting) that all have flip sides to them. If your players have these three areas covered and there is a good and bad side to them, then you should have an ample playing ground for compels.
Always encourage self compels, you'll find your players are coming up with ideas to screw up their character's lives much easier than you would do, and even try to slip past the freebie from time to time, but that is ok. As long as everybody is having fun then the game is golden.
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Great thanks guys! For ideas and ideas and very nice ideas :). I am energized with good emotion and thinking. Now field trials.
"My left hand is not mine realy". He make a bargain with one of Unseelie Sidhe to gain knowledge about his father (he is an orphan and his mom die in jail). Cost was control of his left hand when he actually see his father. It is a great story hook and awesome dedication from player. But i think it is not so good formulated aspect.
And thanks again. This sunday will show me how much i can process good advices. :)
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"My left hand is not mine realy". He make a bargain with one of Unseelie Sidhe to gain knowledge about his father (he is an orphan and his mom die in jail). Cost was control of his left hand when he actually see his father. It is a great story hook and awesome dedication from player. But i think it is not so good formulated aspect.
I think I'd recommend altering that a bit. Something to reflect the deal more. It doesn't change the story but if you focus on the deal it will encourage both you and the player to think about other ways it can come up. Maybe when dealing with Winter fae he can reasonably claim he has some idea what to expect. You might be able to compel him to consider gambling on a new deal as well. After all, he's managing this one alright isn't he? So what could it hurt? :)
Didn't look at the others, sorry... Seemed to have enough responses on those.
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Great thanks guys! For ideas and ideas and very nice ideas :). I am energized with good emotion and thinking. Now field trials.
"My left hand is not mine realy". He make a bargain with one of Unseelie Sidhe to gain knowledge about his father (he is an orphan and his mom die in jail). Cost was control of his left hand when he actually see his father. It is a great story hook and awesome dedication from player. But i think it is not so good formulated aspect.
And thanks again. This sunday will show me how much i can process good advices. :)
Well, if you keep it, it screams out for his father to be the bad guy.
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I've GMed a few games now, many hours of play, never used one compel yet, nor awarded a fate point, until recently, I forgot that aspect of the game existed.
Didn't have any problems
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@beachhead, If you're not awarding FP, that must mean the players are only using what they get from refresh. So, are the players just not invoking their aspects very often?