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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: fantazero on July 13, 2011, 12:58:21 PM

Title: Asiele accords recognized organization , how to and Character help
Post by: fantazero on July 13, 2011, 12:58:21 PM
So basically we are starting a Mini-Ww2 themed Side quest thing to our main game, that will also tie into our main game

I was thinking of making a Character who was the Warden for Poland, is of Jewish decent, and quits the council because they "Wont mettle with Moral affairs"

So basically I want him to start treading that line into Evil, with an end game of Starting his own Asiele accords recognized organization.

So how does one do that.

If I straight up murder someone with magic, but I'm an accord member can the white council touch me? even if I'm a former member? hmmmmm


Also anyone want to help me Stat my character, I've never played as a Wizard, and want it basically to be Darth Vader meets Magneto.
Title: Re: Asiele accords recognized organization , how to and Character help
Post by: Masurao on July 13, 2011, 03:06:18 PM
I believe you are referring to the Unseelie Accords, right? If your character could become a Freeholding Lord,
(click to show/hide)
, then the Council could demand satisfaction for anything you do to one of their own. Under these Accords, you could be forced to duel one of the Council,
(click to show/hide)
, so you are by no means protected from them. And if they think that it is too much trouble, they could arrange an... accident to happen.

As for how you would become a signatory of the Accords in your own right? I'd guess you would have to prove that you have a certain measure of magical, political, monetary and/or physical clout. There is probably some body of beings that evaluates your request, I imagine.

Hope this helps somewhat.
Title: Re: Asiele accords recognized organization , how to and Character help
Post by: Haru on July 13, 2011, 04:47:11 PM
As we know from White Night, the only thing you need to become a freeholding lord under the accords is the sponsorship of 3 members of the accord. However, no White Council wizard in his right mind is going to help you on an endeavour like this. On the other hand, there might be some grumpy regional commander that needs a favour and is eager to bend the rules of the White Council as much as he could. From there you'd only need 2 more signatories, a short list of them is found in OW I believe, but I'd have to check.

I have been thinking about a background for a group, a sort of self help group for wizards that went down the bad road and were able to pull themselves back at the last second. The White Council would kill them anyway, so they do their own thing and try to find others like them and they keep each other in check as best they can.

If you are a member of the accords, you are going to have to answer to the accords first. However, I believe a lot of wardens would still see you as their responsibility and would hold you to the laws of the White Council without bothering with the accords. If someone would have a problem with that, they can challenge your executioner to a duel under the code duello, but I don't think any of the non-human members of the accords would even bother.

btw., I was going to suggest looking at Magneto until I read to the end  ;D
Title: Re: Asiele accords recognized organization , how to and Character help
Post by: Richard_Chilton on July 13, 2011, 05:16:23 PM
In the background as written I'm not sure it's possible for a wizard to join the way Marcone did.

All the accords do it handle how the groups interact.  Each group has total control over its domain and can handle internal issues as they want to.  So if someone in the Winter Court doesn't like what Mab is doing that someone can't appeal things to "an accord council" or "accord court".  Of course this is me assuming that the various powers have ad hoc meetings when the accords get broken...  A group (formal or informal) that says "Harry was clearly in the wrong there".

Which means that any wizard (or other mortal with power) is the White Court problem.  It's like Florida demanding a seat at the UN - it's not a nation so it doesn't get one.  Or maybe it's like Nashville demanding a seat - something that could never make it as it's own nation.  There are small nations recognised by the UN (Luxemburg etc) but if Nashville demanded to be recognised as sovereign nation no one would listen.

The White Council has its laws.  If you could escape those laws by getting the Red Court, White Court, and Nickelheads to sign a piece of paper (and I'm sure those groups would love to see the White Council divided) then there would be dozens of "I'm my own boss!" wizards as part of the accords.

But that's the setting as written.  Feel free to change it.  If you do I'd recommend that the Merlin being one of the three that has to sign off on the former warder joining - having that as preque means it's not going to happen at the drop of a hat and shows that the White Council accepts him going.

Just a suggestion

Richard
Title: Re: Asiele accords recognized organization , how to and Character help
Post by: Haru on July 13, 2011, 05:39:32 PM
Quote from: Richard_Chilton on July 13, 2011, 05:16:23 PM
The White Council has its laws.  If you could escape those laws by getting the Red Court, White Court, and Nickelheads to sign a piece of paper (and I'm sure those groups would love to see the White Council divided) then there would be dozens of "I'm my own boss!" wizards as part of the accords.

You'd have to have enough strength (metaphysical, political, financial and whatever else you can get) to be able to protect yourself, or you are just being swiped down by anyone that crosses your path. As much of a pain the White Council can be, they still mean protection for their members. It is not an easy task to pull of.
Title: Re: Asiele accords recognized organization , how to and Character help
Post by: Richard_Chilton on July 13, 2011, 05:48:58 PM
The main selling point of the White Council is the protection they give - in the above example, the Red Court, White Court, and Nickelheads would be fighting over who got to play with the new toy first.

In general:
Wizard not part of the Council = anyone's toy, which is how Elaine ended up as a plaything for the Summer Court.

Richard
Title: Re: Asiele accords recognized organization , how to and Character help
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 13, 2011, 08:20:35 PM
Richard Chilton speaks wisdom.

Since you are basically making this up whole cloth, you and your GM get to decide whether the Council's Laws apply.

Regardless of the Council, though, you'd still have to take Lawbreaker.

I can stat this guy for you if you like.

I recommend focusing on Earth evocations, for magnetism and gravity-based telekinesis.

Plus, get some badass enchanted item armour. It's not just mechanically optimal, it also fits your concept nicely.
Title: Re: Asiele accords recognized organization , how to and Character help
Post by: sinker on July 14, 2011, 05:13:10 AM
Something else to consider is even if you are accorded you have to be powerful enough to stay that way. Consider that if you bug one of the other members of the accords and they easily wipe your whole organization off the map, then nobody is going to to be left alive to complain, and none of the other parties are going to do anything more than chide the offending party (if they even have enough evidence to point them to a specific party).
Title: Re: Asiele accords recognized organization , how to and Character help
Post by: toturi on July 14, 2011, 07:11:05 AM
Quote from: Richard_Chilton on July 13, 2011, 05:16:23 PM
Which means that any wizard (or other mortal with power) is the White Court problem.  It's like Florida demanding a seat at the UN - it's not a nation so it doesn't get one.  Or maybe it's like Nashville demanding a seat - something that could never make it as it's own nation.  There are small nations recognised by the UN (Luxemburg etc) but if Nashville demanded to be recognised as sovereign nation no one would listen.
The White Council has its laws.  If you could escape those laws by getting the Red Court, White Court, and Nickelheads to sign a piece of paper (and I'm sure those groups would love to see the White Council divided) then there would be dozens of "I'm my own boss!" wizards as part of the accords.
Richard
It would be more like Macedonia declaring independence from Yugoslavia. If for example, Alaska, declared independance from the United States and had enough backers in the UN willing to piss the US off (like maybe China and Russia), then it could be recognised as a sovereign state.

The reason given in the books why secession from the White Council doesn't happen is because no White Council faction powerful enough to be recognised as a supernatural political entity has thought that it prudent to do so. The closest that anyone came would probably be Kemmler. None of the other powers would probably want to risk their backing a failed "state".
Title: Re: Asiele accords recognized organization , how to and Character help
Post by: UmbraLux on July 14, 2011, 11:14:26 AM
Quote from: fantazero on July 13, 2011, 12:58:21 PM
I was thinking of making a Character who was the Warden for Poland, is of Jewish decent, and quits the council because they "Wont mettle with Moral affairs"
Does your group see the White Council as a voluntary organization?  I don't.  Quitting would require the power to take them on...and even that wasn't enough for Kemmler.

Quote
So basically I want him to start treading that line into Evil, with an end game of Starting his own Asiele accords recognized organization.

So how does one do that.
You've got to have the power and influence to be recognized while not being opposed by any other powerful organization. 

Quote
If I straight up murder someone with magic, but I'm an accord member can the white council touch me? even if I'm a former member?
Yes.  The accords are not an immune to interference button.  They simply codify a basic old world courtesy under which powerful enemies can talk without killing each other.  When that breaks down the knives still come out. 

Remember two things: 
(click to show/hide)
  So leaving isn't easy and may not be possible.  And, being an accord signatory isn't a protection from anyone willing to either duel or go to war with you...even if you were in the right by the letter of the accords.
Title: Re: Asiele accords recognized organization , how to and Character help
Post by: fantazero on July 15, 2011, 02:43:17 AM
Does the white council recognize Governments?
Like if the UK said, listen you mess with this guy you with the us, would the WC respect that?
I figure I can get away with a bunch because 1. Its a game  ;) 2. WW2 is going on and I'm sure the Nazis had some Wizards on their side. 3. It's supposed to be a spy ring, so sneaky sneaky
Title: Re: Asiele accords recognized organization , how to and Character help
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 15, 2011, 03:37:49 AM
I don't think that either WC has much respect for mortal power. They'd probably respond badly to threats from the UK.

So, if I'm going to stat this guy up, I need to know:

-His power level.
-What he's good at.
-A little bit about his "feel".
-About any specific plans that you have for him.
Title: Re: Asiele accords recognized organization , how to and Character help
Post by: fantazero on July 15, 2011, 03:52:15 AM
a pyrokinetic.
 "breath weapon" type ability controlled by conviction?
take a stunt to use their breath weapon as a defense, signifying their body bursting into flames?

Power level, Neck Deep
Good at being large scale blow up stuff, not good at small stuff
Pissed of Wizard mad about the death of his people. Think....hmmmm...Magneto I guess
I want him to eventually be able to build Golems and use a chain to control them
Title: Re: Asiele accords recognized organization , how to and Character help
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 15, 2011, 03:56:12 AM
What is Neck Deep?

Why not just use Evocation for pyromancy?
Title: Re: Asiele accords recognized organization , how to and Character help
Post by: Masurao on July 15, 2011, 08:18:10 AM
Quote from: fantazero on July 15, 2011, 02:43:17 AM
Does the white council recognize Governments?
Like if the UK said, listen you mess with this guy you with the us, would the WC respect that?

I think you're mixing DF with Harry Potter :0p There's a reason why the supernaturals in DF don't involve the mortals: they can't be trusted. How would you involve an entire government without creating a shitstorm of epic proportions?
Title: Re: Asiele accords recognized organization , how to and Character help
Post by: UmbraLux on July 15, 2011, 11:18:28 AM
Quote from: fantazero on July 15, 2011, 02:43:17 AM
Does the white council recognize Governments?
You're kidding, right?

We're talking about a group who only honor seven laws, enforces them on their own outside of any local judicial process, and makes treaties completely ignoring mortal concerns.  The White Council doesn't care about any mortal government. 
Title: Re: Asiele accords recognized organization , how to and Character help
Post by: knnn on July 15, 2011, 01:47:18 PM
Quote from: UmbraLux on July 14, 2011, 11:14:26 AM
Does your group see the White Council as a voluntary organization?  I don't.  Quitting would require the power to take them on...and even that wasn't enough for Kemmler.

You've got to have the power and influence to be recognized while not being opposed by any other powerful organization. 

Thing is, Kemmler was so powerful that *everyone* was scared of him. 

If a group of wizards decided to break off and start their own group under the accords (e.g. without necessarily breaking any of the laws, but adding nationality and "doing good" as an issue).  I could totally see other power groups like the Whites or Reds supporting them, simply to weaken the White Council.

Would the White Council start a civil war to keep their brethren in line?  I'm not convinced they would, esp. given how hard it is to oppose other wizards without breaking the Laws (imagines a pillowfight between Ultimate Fighters).


Title: Re: Asiele accords recognized organization , how to and Character help
Post by: fantazero on July 15, 2011, 02:10:21 PM
Quote from: UmbraLux on July 15, 2011, 11:18:28 AM
You're kidding, right?

We're talking about a group who only honor seven laws, enforces them on their own outside of any local judicial process, and makes treaties completely ignoring mortal concerns.  The White Council doesn't care about any mortal government. 

how do we know that the UK isnt an Accorded Nation or something. I mean the WC is in the UK, the UK has a long line of Magical stuff in its history, and most importantly, thats where Hogwarts is.
Title: Re: Asiele accords recognized organization , how to and Character help
Post by: Masurao on July 15, 2011, 02:20:56 PM
Look at it from another angle, if the White Council had such contacts in the government, why didn't they have them attack the Red Court with military might? Or, from yet another angle, if the governments knew about Wizards, they would have wanted them to help in everything from the WW's to Iraq... Let sleeping dogs and dragons and beasts-in-general lie, my friend. :)
Title: Re: Asiele accords recognized organization , how to and Character help
Post by: polkaneverdies on July 15, 2011, 02:40:32 PM
Keep in mind that if your guy becomes a freeholding lord he has to be able to handle the job. When Drakuul and Rampires are having a dispute and need a neutral party to mediate he could be tagged in.
Title: Re: Asiele accords recognized organization , how to and Character help
Post by: Richard_Chilton on July 15, 2011, 03:02:02 PM
If the White Council got involved with national governments then they would be dragged into national issues.  That could be bad.  Very bad for council unity.

For example, if in 1914 the White Council had a good relationship with England/France/Germany/Austro-Hungary/ or Imperial Russia (or later: Italy, the Ottoman Empire, or the US) then their government contacts would be screaming "Help! We need magic to win this war.  Look, we helped you with blah and blah - help us now!".  And the White Council has enough problems staying out of that without owing favours.

Plus relationships would hamstring their work.  For example, the events of Proven Guilty.  Can you imagine them talking to a US government rep and saying:
"Oh by the way, there was this American citizen on American soil who was breaking laws that your country never passed, so we gave him a trial that didn't involve your legal system and then we executed him without allowing any appeals.  Yes, we killed someone on US soil because we felt that was the right thing to do."

On the other hand, the US legal system isn't equipped to deal with warlocks - so the White Council has to do its job, but somehow I can't see governments taking something like that lying down.

Richard