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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: fantazero on July 13, 2011, 01:57:48 AM
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Seems like there is too much math involved, and need to know the Rules too much.
Is it just me, or is anyone else intimidated by playing as a Wizard?
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I chose a pure mortal for my first character for pretty much that reason. I wasn't familiar with the system and didn't want to make a wizard, since I didn't really understand the mechanics.
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Seems like there is too much math involved, and need to know the Rules too much.
Is it just me, or is anyone else intimidated by playing as a Wizard?
Actually there isn't that much math or rules involved compared to other games.
From what I have seen, what makes some gamers shy away from wizards or spellcasters in general is that there seems (or at least, it appears to them) to be the idea that if the GM isn't making the spellcaster's life difficult or making them jump through flaming hoops to "do the right thing", the GM isn't doing his job right.
Me (GM): Come on, guys, this is DFRPG. Someone's got to be the wizard. I mean, come on...
Them (players): Are you joking? You want one of us to turn around and bend over? We game to kick ass, not get butt-f**ked. Harry gets lubbed up and screwed over a dozen times in a single story, man! No way!
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Seems like there is too much math involved, and need to know the Rules too much.
Is it just me, or is anyone else intimidated by playing as a Wizard?
There's really not much math in it, the biggest requirement is for creativity. Need to think up ways to use spells fairly quickly. :) That does get easier with practice.
As for the mechanics, there are some cheat sheets here (http://www.dresdenfilesrpg.com/downloads/) which may help.
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I'm thinking of trying it just for the "Meh why the eff not" mentality of it.
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Some people are intimidated by the open end nature of the system. They are used to "3rd level spells do things in this range" or "Life 4 can do..." and this magic system is wide open.
When anything is possible then how do you decide what to do?
Well, to answer that question, you take useful rotes (using Harry as a model you take an attack and defense and maybe another attack that doesn't need your focus to work) and most of the time you use those spells - and when you have to do something else you come up spells on the fly. Which means you're responsible to know the magic system to the point where saying "I use wind to blow the smoke from the pile of burning weed into the faces of the reporters covering the destruction of the drugs"* doesn't mean taking 20 minutes to debate how powerful it has to be and if it's a zone wide attack or one affecting multiple zones. Off the cuff magic shouldn't take that long to work out - because it's not worth slowing down the game for everyone one else.
Richard
* = this hasn't happened in a game (as far as I know) but was the first really weird thing I could think of - something I didn't think anyone has worked out.
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Plus, if the magic is done more for story-purposes, than, say combat, you might have a GM willing to allow it to work without dice rolls, such as Richard's example. Btw, would want the reporters to go stoned, or just have their vision hampered? :)
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Creativity over math skills make for a good wizard player. In our game, we have one Wizard and one PC with Sponsored Magic. In a nutshell the players say "I do this" and I tell them how much power that will take and the difficulty for the casting roll. Simple as that.
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There's really not much math in it, the biggest requirement is for creativity. Need to think up ways to use spells fairly quickly. :) That does get easier with practice.
As for the mechanics, there are some cheat sheets here (http://www.dresdenfilesrpg.com/downloads/) which may help.
Well said. As a gamer in Mage (WoD) for a long time, it wasn't too hard a leap for me to grasp the idea of letting role-playing drive the magic system, but having played plenty of other systems, I can see where some people might be intimidated.
To me the spellcasting in DFRPG falls somewhere between Mage and Shadowrun (both of which I love).
Mechanically it really is pretty simple. I highly recommend all players, and GM's with wizard concerns take a little time reviewing the rules and those cheat sheets, and then most importantly doing some test rolling/simulations.
That's what I did, and much like any math class will teach you, a handful of simple repetitions will learn ya pretty quick.
Then you can settle in to the fun and creativity of being a clever wizard without worrying about the mechanisms.
Also, I tend to encourage matching discipline and convictions skill levels for new wizards. Helps cut down a bit of math and gives the player a "safe zone" of casting that they can easily get a handle on.
Creativity over math skills make for a good wizard player. In our game, we have one Wizard and one PC with Sponsored Magic. In a nutshell the players say "I do this" and I tell them how much power that will take and the difficulty for the casting roll. Simple as that.
And THIS!
Given the role-play, collaborative nature of the Fate system, the biggest concern should probably be what's cool for the role-playing. The GM can fudge the machinery as much as he/she likes to accommodate a really cool idea the player comes up with.
If there is any rules-lawyer concerns, just have the GM discuss with everyone how flexible he/she is going to be in adjudicating magic right at the start, hash out any concerns, and then run with it.
I tell my folks that if they can come up with something awesome and reasonably feasible, I'll invent a roll if I have to in order to give them a shot at it. We've always played it pretty pliable where rules are concerned. Role-playing comes first.
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When I first started playing DF I too was intimidated and instead of making a Wizard I went with what was essentially a front line fighter with a lot of issues. After he "died" (IE he ascended becoming a full archangel) I decided to play a young warden as my next character and I was surprised at how easy it is to use Evocations. I have grown to really love the freedom the system gives me. Thaumaturgy can be a little difficult for me at times but I am quickly getting the hang of it too. So I say jump in the deep end and face your fear. You won't regret it.
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When I first started playing DF I too was intimidated and instead of making a Wizard I went with what was essentially a front line fighter with a lot of issues. After he "died" (IE he ascended becoming a full archangel) I decided to play a young warden as my next character and I was surprised at how easy it is to use Evocations. I have grown to really love the freedom the system gives me. Thaumaturgy can be a little difficult for me at times but I am quickly getting the hang of it too. So I say jump in the deep end and face your fear. You won't regret it.
I find that the key to Thaumaturgy is teaching yourself to think like a "witch". Summon up those memories of every convoluted "magic" ritual you've ever seen in any movie or TV show and then think about how you'll make that happen in the game. Odds are if you come up with enough toys to play with, the GM will find a way to stick them all together and give you a dice roll (or a few) to make. That and I study Willow and Giles in the Buffy show pretty close to keep me thematically centered.
Also reading how Harry does things in the books can be a good grounding. I find that thinking in terms of "symbolic link first" keeps me on track, and the rest just falls into play as window-dressing and dice boosters on their own.
I find it helps to remember that anything you can do (mechanically) with evocation, you can usually do with thaumaturgy, only with more potency and a few more dice rolls (and a chance of blasting yourself to atoms if you get a tad too ambitious). So I tend to refer to the evocation modifiers when I'm looking for a quick fix to tweak a given spell.
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Actually there isn't that much math or rules involved compared to other games.
same is true for shadowrun. i play a street mage because the casting rules are much simpler than the firearms stuff...
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same is true for shadowrun. i play a street mage because the casting rules are much simpler than the firearms stuff...
And you can get a ton of mileage out of a mana-ball.
...unless they send drones...damn drones...