ParanetOnline
The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Save-vs-DM on April 10, 2007, 11:45:08 AM
-
Harry Dresden
PL: 10 (199pp)
Abilities: STR: 12 (+1), DEX: 16 (+3), CON: 18 (+4), INT: 22 (+6), WIS: 22 (+6), CHA: 14 (+2)
Skills: Acrobatics 3 (+6), Concentration 15 (+19), Craft (Artistic) 10 (+16), Disable Device 8 (+13), Drive 4 (+7), Escape Artist 8 (+11), Gather Information 10 (+12), Handle Animal 4 (+6), Intimidate 4 (+6), Investigate 15 (+21), Knowledge (Arcane Lore) 15 (+21), Knowledge (Behavorial Sciences) 5 (+11), Knowledge (Civics) 5 (+11), Knowledge (Current Events) 5 (+11), Knowledge (Popular Culture) 5 (+11), Knowledge (Streetwise) 10 (+16), Knowledge (Tehology and Philosophy) 5 (+11), Language (Latin) 1, Medicine 2 (+8), Notice 15 (+21), Perform (Stringed Instruments) 5 (+7), Profession (Private Eye) 15 (+21), Search 15 (+21), Sense Motive 10 (+16), Sleight of Hand 5 (+8), Stealth 5 (+8)
Feats: Assessment, Artificer, Connected, Contacts, Diehard, Distract, Evasion, Favored Opponent (Vampires) 2, Leadership, Luck 2, Master Plan, Ritualist, Sidekick 10, Taunt
Powers: Array [Magic] (Air Control 10, Blast [Fire] 10, Hellfire Control 10, Shield 10) 10; 23pp, Immunity (Aging [Limited]); 1pp, Super Senses 11 (Counters Illusion [Flaw: Distracting, Drawback: Action (Full-Round Action)], Precognition [Flaws: Limited (Soulgaze), Drawback: Action (Full-Round Action)], Postcognition [Flaws: Limited (Soulgaze), Drawback: Action (Full-Round Action)], Magical Awareness); 4pp
Devices: Spell-Hardened Duster [Impervious Protection 5, hard to loose]; 8pp
Combat: Attack +6 [Staff +2, Unarmed +1], Defense 18 (14 flat-footed), Init +3
Saves: Toughness +9 (Impervious 5, +4 without duster), Fortitude +8, Reflex +8, Will +12
Complications: Accident (Causes modern machinery to malfunction), Enemy (Vampires; Various Monsters), Reputation (User of black magic)
Drawbacks: Power Loss: Magic [Half power when unable to use a focus; 1pp], Power Loss: Magic [Unable to use magic when unable to speak; 1pp]
Attributes 44, Combat 28, Feats 25, Powers 36, Saves 15, Skills 51 (204 ranks)
Bob [Knowledge Spirit]
Abilities: STR: -- (+0), DEX: 12 (+1), CON: -- (+0), INT: 40 (+15), WIS: 20 (+5), CHA: 14 (+2)
Skills: Gather Information 8 (+10), Knowledge (Arcane Lore) 15 (+30), Knowledge (Art) 15 (+30), Knowledge (Behavioral Sciences) 15 (+30), Knowledge (Civics) 15 (+30), Knowledge (Current Events) 15 (+30), Knowledge (Earth Sciences) 15 (+30), Knowledge (History) 15 (+30), Knowledge (Life Sciences) 15 (+30), Knowledge (Physical Sciences) 15 (+30), Knowledge (Popular Culture) 15 (+30), Knowledge (Tactics) 15 (+30), Knowledge (Theology and Philosophy) 15 (+30)
Feats: Eidetic Memory
Combat: Attack +6 [Bite +5], Defense 16 (13 flat-footed), Initiative +3
Saves: Toughness +0, Fortitude +0, Reflex +1, Willpower +5
Powers: Immunity (Fortitude) 30, Insubstantial (Innate, Permanent) 2, Possession (Limited: Animals) 2
Complications: Obsession (Sex)
Mouse [Dog]
Abilities: STR: 22 (+6), DEX: 16 (+3), CON: 20 (+5), INT: 8 (-1), WIS: 14 (+2), CHA: 12 (+1)
Skills: Jump 6 (+11), Notice 10 (+2), Survival 2 (+4), Swim 2 (+7)
Feats: Fearless, Interpose
Combat: Attack +6 [Bite +5], Defense 16 (13 flat-footed), Initiative +3
Saves: Toughness +7, Fortitude +8, Reflex +3, Will +6
Powers: Growth 2 (Power Feats: Innate, Flaws: Permanent), Protection 2, Regeneration (Improved Recovery) 4, Super-Senses (detect evil/unnatural, scent, track, ultra-hearing) 5
So, here's my first shot at stating up Harry, Bob, and Mouse. It takes a lot of effort, so it's probably going to take me a little while to get the rest of the characters. Harry is probably a bit too spendy, but I wanted him to be at about the power level he showed around the book Proven Guilty/White Night. I've deliberately avoided adding powers that show up only in the latest book.
I think that most things worked out well - I was proud of how I worked out wizard's sight and the soulgaze. I've left out one glaring complication in Harry's sheet - Laschiel. I wasn't sure how to stat "her" up, honestly. I think she would probably be a complication myself, but she does add some benefits as well. In the end, I decided just to have her be "DM fiat", and left it at that.
The only thing I couldn't handle with this system was the accelerated healing of wizards. I've decided that it's really just Harry using a hero point to duplicate the Regeneration power in fits and spurts.
And to those of you who say he doesn't have near enough magic, I think that 99% of most of his magic is actually just a good use of the Artificer or Ritualist feat (I mean, he even says ritual magic is his specialty). With his boatload of complications, Harry is rarely without a spare hero point to fuel this feat.
Up next...Micheal
(Mods: I tried really, really hard to avoid any sort of spoiler information with my mechanics, but if you think this belongs somewhere else, please move it).
Cheers,
Save vs DM
-
Fun. I love seeing stats from systems that I'm not soaking in 24/7. :)
-
small problem with your dresden. His two stats of 22 cannot be. 20 is the max stat for a human without powers that enhance an attribute. I'll let it slide for mouse because he's a dog.
-
Save-v-sDM good to see you here. Haven't been on the Starting Now boards for a long time.
-
You know what would be really cool?
If the next DFRPG preview had a statblock for Harry.
-
small problem with your dresden. His two stats of 22 cannot be. 20 is the max stat for a human without powers that enhance an attribute. I'll let it slide for mouse because he's a dog.
That may have been true in 1e, but in 2e they've done away with that rather arbitrary distinction. Heck, 24-25 is now considered to be the peak of human achievement. Plus, Harry isn't quite "mortal", at least by comic book standards. Still, thanks for pointing that out.
Cheers,
Save vs DM
-
Is it wrong that I am disappointed that this thread was not, in fact, about candy-covered chocolates shaped like Dresden Files characters?
-
Is it wrong that I am disappointed that this thread was not, in fact, about candy-covered chocolates shaped like Dresden Files characters?
If it's wrong, we're wrong together.
*departs thread*
-
Sorry to disappoint you on that regard, but yeah, M&M in this thread stands for Mutants and Masterminds.
Cheers,
Save vs DM
-
That may have been true in 1e, but in 2e they've done away with that rather arbitrary distinction. Heck, 24-25 is now considered to be the peak of human achievement. Plus, Harry isn't quite "mortal", at least by comic book standards. Still, thanks for pointing that out.
Cheers,
Save vs DM
Dang it! they always do that to me. I start playing a game and then they release a new edition. It happened with shadowrun, and now this. hopefully MNM 2e isn't going to be the bastardization Shadowrun 4e ended up being.
-
You know what would be really cool?
If the next DFRPG preview had a statblock for Harry.
That's coming, but it'll still be a bit.
-
Dang it! they always do that to me. I start playing a game and then they release a new edition. It happened with shadowrun, and now this. hopefully MNM 2e isn't going to be the bastardization Shadowrun 4e ended up being.
Actually, the second edition is so much smoother and better than the first. It fixed a lot of problems with some powers and how things were bought, and it's also nice. Plus power level no longer determines how many ranks in a power you can take (though it still does if the power does damage, as damage rating is still mostly capped by power level, unless you trade off attack bonus for damage bonus).
I highly recommend the second edition.
Cheers,
Save vs DM
-
I highly recommend the second edition.
As do I. A definite improvement on the first.
-
Is it wrong that I am disappointed that this thread was not, in fact, about candy-covered chocolates shaped like Dresden Files characters?
I was close...I was thinking Dresden action figures with M&Ms...like Star Wars.
(Ok, honestly, I was thinking photoshopped)
-
Is it wrong that I am disappointed that this thread was not, in fact, about candy-covered chocolates shaped like Dresden Files characters?
Hm... there is that "Be an M&M" webtoy-thingie. Wonder if someone has done M&M versions of denizens of the Dresden-verse.
-
Karrin Murphy
PL: 8 (146pp)
Abilities: STR: 14 (+2), DEX: 18 (+4), CON: 16 (+3), INT: 14 (+2), WIS: 14 (+2), CHA: 18 (+4)
Skills: Acrobatics 8 (+12), Diplomacy 8 (+12), Drive 4 (+8), Gather Information 12 (+16), Intimidate 8 (+12), Investigate 12 (+14), Knowledge (Arcane Lore) 2 (+4), Knowledge (Current Events) 4 (+6), Knowledge (Tactics) 4 (+6), Knowledge (Theology and Philosophy) 2 (+4), Medicine 4 (+6), Notice 12 (+14), Profession (Police Officer) 8 (+10), Search 8 (+10), Sense Motive 12 (+14), Stealth 8 (+12), Survival 4 (+6)
Feats: Accurate Attack, Appearance, Assessment, Benefit (Police Officer), Defensive Attack, Defensive Roll 5, Grappling Finesse, Leadership, Improved Block, Improved Disarm, Improved Grab, Improved Pin, Improved Trip, Instant Up, Quick Draw, Seize Initiative, Stunning Attack, Teamwork 2, Weapon Bind, Well-Connected
Powers: Strike [Striking Strength] (Extras: Mighty) 6; 8pp
Combat: Attack +8 [Pistol +4, Unarmed +8], Defense 18 (14 flat-footed), Init +8
Saves: Toughness +8 (+3 flat-footed), Fortitude +8, Reflex +10, Will +8
Equipment: Service Pistol
Drawbacks: Honor, Obsession (Law), Responsibility (Police duties)
Abilities 34, Feats 25, Skills 30 (112 ranks), Combat 32, Saves 17, Powers 8
Well, here's Murphy in all her glory. I decided in PL 8 for her, as she's a mortal, but a tough mortal. Her only power really isn't a power, it's just a result of her excellent martial arts training. I think she turned out pretty well myself. Nothing too big going on, really, but she works well and can kick some tail.
-
Michael Carpenter
PL: 10 (190pp)
Abilities: STR: 18 (+4), DEX: 16 (+3), CON: 18 (+4), INT: 14 (+2), WIS: 18 (+4), CHA: 16 (+3)
Skills: Acrobatics 4 (+7), Climb 4 (+8), Diplomacy 8 (+11), Drive 2 (+5), Gather Information 8 (+11), Handle Animal 4 (+7), Intimidate 8 (+11), Knowledge (Arcane Lore) 4 (+6), Knowledge (Current Events) 4 (+6), Knowledge (Tactics) 4 (+6), Knowledge (Theology and Philosophy) 12 (+14), Medicine 2 (+6), Notice 12 (+16), Profession (Carpenter) 8 (+12), Search 4 (+6), Sense Motive 12 (+16), Stealth 4 (+7), Survival 8 (+12), Swim 4 (+8)
Feats: Accurate Attack, Assessment, Blind-Fight, Connected, Critical Strike, Defensive Attack, Elusive Target, Endurance, Equipment 4, Favored Opponent (Denarians) 2, Fearless, Improved Critical (Amoracchious) 2, Improved Defense, Improved Disarm, Improved Initaitive, Improved Sunder, Improved Trip, Interpose, Luck 3, Power Attack, Takedown Attack, Teamwork 2, Well-Informed
Powers: Super-Senses [Danger Sense, Detect Evil] 2
Device 8: Amoracchius (easy to loose) [Light Control 4, Protection (Extras: Impervious) 6, Strike (Extras: Penatrating) 10]; 24pp
Combat: Attack +10 [Amoracchius +10, Unarmed +4], Defense 20 (15 flat-footed), Init +7
Saves: Toughness +10 (Impervious +6), Fortitude +12, Reflex +8, Will +12
Equipment: Chainmail, Dagger, House, Tools, Truck
Drawbacks: Enemy (Denarians), Honor (Christian Values), Responsibility (Family)
Abilities 40, Feats 32, Skills 29 (108 ranks), Saves 21, Powers 26, Combat 40
Well, I finally finished Michael - and he was harder to do than I thought. I had to spend a few days scouring the books, looking for just what Amoracchius could do, power wise. I think I probably missed a few things, but the basic set up is pretty good. It's actually fairly cheap, power-wise. As for Michael, he's a fanny-kicking mamba jamba even without the sword. He's more or less a riff off the weapons-master archetype, with a few tweaks. The biggest one is his luck - which in this case is divine intervention. Given his rather nasty drawbacks, he should always have plenty of hero points to pull off one time power "miracles" or to be in the right place at the right time. Actually, the DM is probably fiating him being in the right place, which actually earns him another hero point. His well informed feat represents the wide nation of churchs, that and he always seems to be where he needs to be. All in all, I'm happy with how he turned out.
-
Very nice! Keep 'em coming! ;D
I may use these in an upcoming campaign. I was uncertain as to which system to use, but M&M is really nice because of the way they handle powers and such.
-
Very nice! Keep 'em coming! ;D
I may use these in an upcoming campaign. I was uncertain as to which system to use, but M&M is really nice because of the way they handle powers and such.
Surprisingly, it handles the dresden-verse pretty darn well, actually. I'll have to dig around my massive number of text files, and see if I can't find my Dresden-verse M&M templates. I have templates for Wizard, White Court Vampire, Black Court Vampire, Red Court Vampire, and Changeling. Mostly they're just a package deal you buy that gives you all the common abilities (like wizards all get soulgaze (which I'm still not quite happy with how I have it) and wizard's sight, for example).
It's not foolproof by any means, and I think the Dresden RPG is going to be a much better fit, but it does work pretty nicely.
Cheers,
Save vs DM
-
Well, when you think about M&M as a superhero comic book RPG it's not too much of a stretch to imagine that it could handle any other sort of high-powered campaign, and Harry Dresden sure has elements of high-power.
I'm looking forward to seeing your other templates!
-
Actually, the second edition is so much smoother and better than the first. It fixed a lot of problems with some powers and how things were bought, and it's also nice. Plus power level no longer determines how many ranks in a power you can take (though it still does if the power does damage, as damage rating is still mostly capped by power level, unless you trade off attack bonus for damage bonus).
I highly recommend the second edition.
Argh. So I picked up a copy of Mutants & Masterminds at a bookstore and now realize that it is 1E. Is the 2E version different enough that I should spend even more money, or can I get by with 1E?
-
Argh. So I picked up a copy of Mutants & Masterminds at a bookstore and now realize that it is 1E. Is the 2E version different enough that I should spend even more money, or can I get by with 1E?
If you have a receipt, I would recommend taking the book back and getting the 2nd ed version. Not that 1st edition is bad, per say - but 2nd really improved a lot of things that needed improving. I think it's worth switching, but it's good enough that you could get by with first.
Cheers,
Save vs DM
-
I did manage an exchange -- turns out they had a 2E in the back room!
Now I'm frantically reading. If I can figure M&M out, I may run a short Dresden adventure for my group this weekend. If not, I'll have to default to one of my "house" systems and wing it. ;)
-
Someone make a sheet for Butters, it'd be a hoot!
-
Waldo Butters
PL: 3 (45pp)
Abilities: STR: 10 (+0), DEX: 12 (+1), CON: 12 (+1), INT: 16 (+3), WIS: 12 (+1), CHA: 14 (+2)
Skills: Diplomacy 2 (+4), Drive 2 (+3), Knowledge (Behavioral Sciences) 4 (+7), Knowledge (Current Events) 4 (+7), Knowledge (Life Sciences) 8 (+11), Knowledge (Popular Culture) 4 (+7), Medicine 8 (+11), Notice 4 (+5), Perform (Keyboards) 8 (+10), Perform (Percussion Instruments) 8 (+10), Perform (Wind Instrumnets) 8 (+10), Profession (Coroner) 8 (+9),
Feats: Equipment 2, Skill Mastery (Knowledge [Life Sciences], Medicine, Perform [Wind Instruments], Profession [Coroner]), Ultimate Effort (Perform Checks)
Combat: Attack +1 [Pistol +4, Unarmed +0], Defense 11 (10 flat-footed), Init +1
Saves: Toughness +1, Fortitude +2, Reflex +1, Will +4
Equipment: Coroner's Tools, Lab, Polka Instruments
Drawbacks: Obsession (Polka)
Abilities 16, Feats 4, Skills 17 (68 ranks), Saves 4, Combat 4
Here's Butters in all his glory! He's not all that much to look at, but the guy can play polka like nobodies business!
-
Hee, my day is complete now.
-
Link? Must have link...sounds like a really cool game system...almost D20 but not.
hopefully MNM 2e isn't going to be the bastardization Shadowrun 4e ended up being.- Actually 4th is alot smoother then all the other editions and I have played them all. It makes the player make a balanced character in the being and pushes the player to "grow" his character..almost makes the character moral if you know what I mean
-
Save vs. DM I think it's good work and your on the right track, but I'm curious if you done anthing for the templates of vams or were crearures?
-
Link? Must have link...sounds like a really cool game system...almost D20 but not.
Its by Green Ronin, and is based off of the SRD. So if you're familiar with D&D 3e/3.5e, then you should be able to understand the M&M ruleset fairly well. There are some changes (of cours), since they've thrown the super powers in. I also like M&M 2e over 1e.
And the characters were awesome.
-
Is it wrong that I am disappointed that this thread was not, in fact, about candy-covered chocolates shaped like Dresden Files characters?
Yeah, I fell for it too. Good lead in.
Yes, I am a chocoholic, I can abstain---BUT I DON"T WANT TOO!
-
Save vs. DM I think it's good work and your on the right track, but I'm curious if you done anthing for the templates of vams or were crearures?
Actually, I'm working on updating all the characters in this thread. My mastery of the system has increased greatly and I want to do new versions. I'm hung up on a few things, but I want to start a new thread soon.
-
Looking forward to what you do with this. I've got this idea of trying to run a Dresden game with OD&D, and maybe I can start with your (3E) M&M notes and try to thin it out a little to be more OD&D-like. :D
-
Just be careful about starting characters out first level. I'd be pretty disappointed if someone told me that we were going to play Dresdenverse style wizards and all I could do in terms of magic was Magic Missile once per day.
(:
-
Well, I'd have to start them out a little above first level. ;) In his later days, Gary started players out at 3rd level and that's probably not a bad level for intro play.
The basic concept of hit points, weapon damage, armor, saving throws, and so on, could probably be imported with little effort, except for updating a few things into modern times.
I think that DF magic could work with OD&D if the number of spells were tweaked a little and the spell list redone to fit the style of a Dresden campaign. (Sounds like a lot of work, but I'm not sure it would be.) One way to do some of this would be to make a list of spells Harry uses and which book he does them in; this would help identify the "easy" spells (early in the series) versus the "harder" spells (later in the series). It would also weed out some of the spells that are un-Dresden-like.
Just me thinking out loud....
-
I hate to say it, but I think that 4th ed might be a tighter fit. I think the at will/ conflict/ per day thing might work well to model some of the conflicts in the books. Harry tends to rely on a lot of the same meat and potatoes spells. When shit hits the fan, he busts out a smaller variety of more powerful effects. When shit really, well, and truly hits the fan, he busts out some of the really powerful effects. It also has the advantage of giving everyone a couple of cool things each even at starting level.
-
I hate to say it, but I think that 4th ed might be a tighter fit. I think the at will/ conflict/ per day thing might work well to model some of the conflicts in the books. Harry tends to rely on a lot of the same meat and potatoes spells. When shit hits the fan, he busts out a smaller variety of more powerful effects. When shit really, well, and truly hits the fan, he busts out some of the really powerful effects. It also has the advantage of giving everyone a couple of cool things each even at starting level.
This is why I love using Mutants and Masterminds. Basically Harry has a few spells (you'll see soon, he's actually been a bear and a half to stat up correctly) in a defined magic array. Those rare things he uses? Those are power stunts he uses from all those hero points he gets from the countless complications he has. The really powerful effects? Every notice how he gets really tired after that? He slaps the Tiring flaw on the spell to get more points out of it and really pull out a powerful bash.
And just to whet some appetites, here's the Wizard Template:
Wizard Traits (Container, Passive 3) (Power Feats: Innate)
Soul Gaze (Super-Senses 8) (Postcognition, Precognition; Flaws: Limited (Subject You Gaze), Range (Touch), Side-Effect 2 (Always - Subject Gets to Soul Gaze You); Power Feats: Perfect Recall; Descriptors: Magic, Psychic)
Enhanced Recovery (Regeneration 4) (Recovery Bonus 4 (+4 to Recover); Power Feats: Regrowth, Persistent; Descriptors: Biological, Magic)
Wizard Sight (Super-Senses 14) (Precognition (Flaw: Uncontrolled), True Sight; Flaws: Check Required (Concentration), Side-Effect (Sometimes - Psychic Scarring); Power Feats: Perfect Recall; Descriptors: Magic, Mind)
Boosted Immune System (Immunity 2) (Aging, Disease; Flaws: Limited - Half Effect)
New Power Feat
Perfect Recall: You can remember everything you see or experience with this power as if you had the Eidetic Memory feat, but without the need to actually make a roll to recall the information. Anything you see or learn with a power using this feat stays with you forever, for good or ill.
Just a few notes on this. It was actually harder to mimic the basic attributes of fully-fledged wizards than I thought, but in the end I think this works really well. The Soul Gaze was interesting, as I almost was going to use Mind Reading, but I think that post and precognition work a lot better. Those powers are rather symbolic anyway, so it was a nice fit. The touch range is simply to denote that you have to be very close to your subject to use it. The enhanced recover is interesting, as wizard's don't really heal any faster than anyone else, they just heal more reliability (the recovery bonus) and they can recover from things most people can't (Regrowth and Persistent). Due to a quirk of the M&M rules, they probably heal faster than Harry actually does, but it's a pretty close match.
The Boosted Immune system mimics the slow aging of wizards and the fact that I've never once actually seen one of them sick (that I can remember). Well, Harry might have been sick once or twice, but that was overwork I think. But that's why it's limited to half effect. Actually, the Sight was the easiest thing to mimic for me. They just get True Sight and an uncontrolled Precognition once the sight begins to "come in." I would model the Psychic Scarring as a Mental Stun effect at a level equal to the Power Level of the nasty thing you saw. So minor horrors you can save against pretty easily, but things like Shagnasty are going to throw you for a loop.
-
Hm. Now I've got to convince the people at the LGS to pick up Wild Talents Essential Edition so I can try to stat Harry up...
-
Hm. Now I've got to convince the people at the LGS to pick up Wild Talents Essential Edition so I can try to stat Harry up...
Oh, that would be interesting!
-
Yeah. A lot of the generic build powers from WT are pretty similar conceptually to M&M. In particular, the powers get where they're going by adding exceptions and limitations to basic effects and leave the players to give descriptions to things.
My concern would be that ORE characters are pretty fragile in other implementations, so I'd be concerned that one good blast with almost any dangerous power would instantly put someone out of a fight. I'll have to track down a copy of Essential Edition and see...
-
Just be careful about starting characters out first level. I'd be pretty disappointed if someone told me that we were going to play Dresdenverse style wizards and all I could do in terms of magic was Magic Missile once per day.
(:
The warlock class works surprisingly well (especially since they later get a "craft any magic item" ability). You have to ditch a bit of the flavor text, but whatever.
The hellfire warlock + binder trick fits especially well for Harry.
-
I'm just amused that with PHB2, you can now play both a Wizard and a Warden...
-
I'm just amused that with PHB2, you can now play both a Wizard and a Warden...
You know, I flipped through PHB2 less than a week ago and totally failed to notice that.
-
I'm just amused that with PHB2, you can now play both a Wizard and a Warden...
When I read this I heard "We have both kinds of music, country and western" in my head.
-
The thing is, I'm not really sold on 4E. :( I bought a bunch of the rulebooks and really wanted to get "into" the game, but I'm just having a hard time with it. Too many rules and I guess my old braincells are not willing to grapple with them.
I guess that's why I go for more freestyle games like OD&D, FATE, and Amber Diceless....
-
Well...I like 4E, but its lack of out of combat stuff makes it hard for a drama focused game to run smoothly.
MNM, FATE, Hero, Tri-Stat, Savage Worlds, those are the ones I would most likely set Dresden up in.
-
Well...I like 4E, but its lack of out of combat stuff makes it hard for a drama focused game to run smoothly.
Its out of combat stuff is less detailed and crunchy, but given the nature of skill challenges, rituals, and other components of noncombat play clearly present in the system, I'd hardly say there's a "lack".
-
Its out of combat stuff is less detailed and crunchy, but given the nature of skill challenges, rituals, and other components of noncombat play clearly present in the system, I'd hardly say there's a "lack".
I haven't done more than skim the rules, but my impression was that there was a huge focus on the tactical combat challenge with enough rules for other stuff to get by. And this is great for the game groups who are fine with making X checks before you fail Y, or who are fine with saying, "If you can role play it, you can do it," but it seemed a little light on support for someone who is interested in having robust mechanics for social conflict or the like.
None of which is a dig at 4th ed. It looks to me like WotC has taken D&D in an interesting direction. At the very least, starting wizard types are even farther away from the single Magic Missile with legs they were for some decades.
It's not my cup of tea, but that doesn't make it crap.
-
Its out of combat stuff is less detailed and crunchy, but given the nature of skill challenges, rituals, and other components of noncombat play clearly present in the system, I'd hardly say there's a "lack".
I call it a lack, skill challenges are all but worthless, and rituals is hardly a plethora of options.
though as I think about it, I think it could be done n/o WoD as well (My personal preference is old, but it could be done regardless).
-
I haven't done more than skim the rules, but my impression was that there was a huge focus on the tactical combat challenge with enough rules for other stuff to get by. And this is great for the game groups who are fine with making X checks before you fail Y, or who are fine with saying, "If you can role play it, you can do it," but it seemed a little light on support for someone who is interested in having robust mechanics for social conflict or the like.
That there is the issue. For Dresden which has only a handful of minor fights before the big one (usually), an all but pure tactical RPG is not the way to go. I am not saying it couldn't be done, but it would require an awfully big hammer to get it to fit, and is generally not worth the effort when a variety of systems already exists that can handle it without rounding the edges of Dresden's square peg (Or squaring the edges of its round peg either way).
None of which is a dig at 4th ed. It looks to me like WotC has taken D&D in an interesting direction. At the very least, starting wizard types are even farther away from the single Magic Missile with legs they were for some decades.
It's not my cup of tea, but that doesn't make it crap.
I enjoy 4th Ed, but when I play it its not for regular RP, its more for chasing things down and beating them up and taking their lunch money.
-
I wasn't suggesting that 4th ed would be the best choice, just that the power structure would work well. Harry starts with a blast of fire, a blast of force, and a shield that he uses as his baseline. Then he's got a couple of things he only does occasionally (like explode a house full of vampires).
I'd much rather play with FATE, though.
-
Ehhh, I think you have to beat a lot of the others things over the head to make them work in the AW/E/D setup. After all, while everyone would want to be a wizard, you need to be able to play a lot of things that just don't jive well that way.
-
Maybe I read it wrong, but I was under the impression that Micheal's mail was slightly holy as well.
It burned Kelly, the Red Court Vampire, when she touched it in Blood Rites.
If not, then Michael himself was holy.
And he appears to have some kind of Paladin-like smiting power as well, or am I just crazy?
-
I'm not saying that 4th ed would be a good fit for the Dresdenverse so much as I'm saying that Harry falls into the rough pattern of how 4th ed works wizard types. Trying to cram, say, the Alphas into that pattern would be really contrived and wouldn't work very well at all.
As to the holiness of Michael and his armour, it's my impression that it's Michael himself that is holy. Faith of any sort seems to have power in the Dresdenverse, and Michael's faith is a monolithic and impressive thing. Harry has faith enough in his magic as to be able to change the world with a thought, but even that seems to pale before Michael's faith. While Harry can keep a Red Court vampire at bay by brandishing his pentacle, Michael empowers crosses on his person to be actively dangerous to them.
-
I hate to say it, but I think that 4th ed might be a tighter fit. I think the at will/ conflict/ per day thing might work well to model some of the conflicts in the books. Harry tends to rely on a lot of the same meat and potatoes spells. When shit hits the fan, he busts out a smaller variety of more powerful effects. When shit really, well, and truly hits the fan, he busts out some of the really powerful effects. It also has the advantage of giving everyone a couple of cool things each even at starting level.
I think the 4th edition is going to make it impossible for the DM. Its very difficult to make a boss monster effective using 4th rules. You need back up, or things like certain justice will mess you up. And to have a good Dresden verse story the monsters should work alone.
Id recoment people use 3rd.
-
I think the 4th edition is going to make it impossible for the DM. Its very difficult to make a boss monster effective using 4th rules. You need back up, or things like certain justice will mess you up. And to have a good Dresden verse story the monsters should work alone.
Id recoment people use 3rd.
Dresdenverse doesn't work very well with a Vancian magic system. It's just not a terribly good fit.
Besides which, I was thinking only about the powers system. I'm a system tweaker. I'm one of those people who likes to do things like start with Everway, then add Aspects and fate points, and finally decide that I should use FUDGE dice to run it. I forgot to mention that part, that it was just the structure of how powers work. Sometimes I forget that other people aren't necessarily system tweakers and don't think like one.
Of all things, I'd probably start with Wheel of Fate and glue a power system somewhat like 4th ed onto it. I like characters that fit onto one side of an index card.
-
Just using AW/E/D I am not even sure would work well for Harry. Really, 4th is just kinda advanced Vancian magic. MAGE/Ars Magica would be an ok starting point for system tweaking, though.
-
I used Mage (with Possessed and Sorcerer rules) to recreate the Dresdenverse a while back. Essentially, Wizards were awakened with some path magic and everyone else was a just a path mage or a monster created via the spirit or possesed rules. I had to use Paradox in a slightly different way (essentially causing fatigue or story complications) to jive with the Dresden Pradigm, but the players seemed to like it. It lacked a certain feeling for combat though, but o/WoD was horrible with the concept of mooks. The Exalted/Scion rules would work well. Also the new system for hedge wizards would work well, I think.
Still, I am waiting for the FATE release
-
Dresdenverse doesn't work very well with a Vancian magic system. It's just not a terribly good fit.
I dunno, if you reflavored it as a heavily item-based wizard with different focuses it could work out fairly well. Essentially with some sort of staff that acted as a magical shotgun. You can only imbue a limited number of "shells" per day, and due to that nasty daily magical reboot you can't stockpile them.
Artificers are probably better models, though (what else is new?). I suppose psionics could work as well, and binding has a bit of nice potential...
-
I dunno, if you reflavored it as a heavily item-based wizard with different focuses it could work out fairly well. Essentially with some sort of staff that acted as a magical shotgun. You can only imbue a limited number of "shells" per day, and due to that nasty daily magical reboot you can't stockpile them.
That doesn't fit my play style very well, and I don't think it would be a great fit for Dresden.
I'm actually really glad that they're going with FATE. Not only is it a game that I happen to like, but I think it will do a good job of modelling the books. You have a baseline at which you can perform; if nothing bad or strenuous happens you can sit there doing basic magic stuff all day. If you need some special umph, you have options which involve spending fate points, which means that you can only do big things a relatively fewer number of times. Finally, most of those spots where Harry is drained and can't do much if any magic can easily be done with a Compel on a Consequence.
Which is why I'm bloody impatient about finally getting the book.
-
Surprisingly, it handles the dresden-verse pretty darn well, actually. I'll have to dig around my massive number of text files, and see if I can't find my Dresden-verse M&M templates. I have templates for Wizard, White Court Vampire, Black Court Vampire, Red Court Vampire, and Changeling. Mostly they're just a package deal you buy that gives you all the common abilities (like wizards all get soulgaze (which I'm still not quite happy with how I have it) and wizard's sight, for example).
It's not foolproof by any means, and I think the Dresden RPG is going to be a much better fit, but it does work pretty nicely.
Cheers,
Save vs DM
I am about to run a M&M Dresden game, any chance you could post those templates? Please.