ParanetOnline
The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Hal on May 13, 2011, 02:09:19 AM
-
One of my players inquired about a mortal stunt that would allow him to always have the "right" kind of ammo on hand; When nasty fae suddenly show up, he has steel slugs in his pockets. Something to that effect. Normally, declaring you have something useful on hand costs a fate point. He doesn't want to have to spend a fate point every time some new horror shows up that isn't quite susceptible to standard ammo.
Thoughts on how to do it best? Since he just wants it to be about ammo, I'm not sure what to say. Just ammo might not be game-breaking, but it means he'll always have a way of simply declaring his way past a catch (assuming it isn't physical immunity). What would you do with this?
-
One of my players inquired about a mortal stunt that would allow him to always have the "right" kind of ammo on hand; When nasty fae suddenly show up, he has steel slugs in his pockets. Something to that effect. Normally, declaring you have something useful on hand costs a fate point. He doesn't want to have to spend a fate point every time some new horror shows up that isn't quite susceptible to standard ammo.
Thoughts on how to do it best? Since he just wants it to be about ammo, I'm not sure what to say. Just ammo might not be game-breaking, but it means he'll always have a way of simply declaring his way past a catch (assuming it isn't physical immunity). What would you do with this?
Why doesn't he just roll for a declaration or work it into the narrative?
If he had a high lore/resources skill, he could roll for it.
-
This may be an interesting stunt. Maybe let him carry 2-3 types of ammo on him at all times, reasonable for his resources (like Steel Slugs, Garlic-Coated Rounds, and maybe some other common catch, but not holy bullets unless he himself is faithful or a priest consecrated them for him)
-
I'm with Bear, probably just a declaration. He could however... have a stunt that gives him a bonus to making such declarations. That would probably be beneficial.
-
Yeah, Guns actually has a Knowledge Trapping for declarations, just adjust the "target number" for the Guns declaration the more...um...odd the ammo declaration. Maybe even modify the Guns skill with Lore if the declaration involves ammo something specifically supernatural related.
-
So far, I've generally had him either roll for a declaration or spend a fate point to have something special on hand (steel shot, bean bags, etc.) He doesn't like either; he'd rather save the fate points for something else and doesn't trust that he'll make any given roll.
Plus, it also means I have to decide on a difficulty for a roll to declare that he just happened to bring incendiary or armor piercing rounds. There's no "modified by lore" in his case; it's a big ol' zero.
We could make it a resources sort of thing; he gets his resources in free declarations. The upshot would be that he could be carrying something very expensive (some sort of explosive) or several times just "have" something cheap (like the steel shot). The downside, of course, is that his character has a lousy resource skill (which gets played to amusing effect at the table.)
-
If you used my idea in full, his modifier for a 0 Lore would be a -1 to his Guns when attempting the declaration.
-
I'm with Bear, probably just a declaration. He could however... have a stunt that gives him a bonus to making such declarations. That would probably be beneficial.
I like this idea.
I think a stunt like... "Ammo, ammo, ammo!" Roll guns to make a declaration about what ammo you have on hand. Make these declaration rolls with a +2 modifier to your guns skill.
would be appropriate.
OP, if he could not make a declaration roll with a 4 or 5 in guns, with a +2, then he would probably have to spend a fate point for his talking, magical rainbow ammo anyway. :P
-
First of all, consider the availability of the ammo. If a catch is +2 for availability (like cold iron, vamp weaknesses, normal silver), you can find it. If the catch is +1 for availability (like True Faith or inherited silver), you should not be able to find it; only a small group of people in the world should have it. If it was findable, it would not be rated +1 for availability.
Secondly, consider letting him make a resources or craftsmanship declaration to get the ammo at the beginning of a story, treating them as equipment. A serious gunslinger will start with steel-jacketed rounds anyway so no reason not to have the catch for iron at hand. Then against normal shapeshifters, one could make normal silver-jacketed rounds in advance as well with a craftsmanship declaration. Then load up with a few electrum or jade rounds if you are going against Greek or Persian/Indian critters in the campaign as a whole. Maybe add an anti-vampire paintball gun.
The IC justification for carrying all those types of ammo in advance would be a preparation or paranoia aspect or stunt. Your PC could well have been a boyscout before becoming a shooter in the know.
Third, keep the in-combat Declarations for unusual types of ammo. Remember that such Declarations need Fate points in addition to the skill roll.
-
Holy water is pretty easy to get hold off, actually so are priests and people who believe in God, if you have been following the news over the last decade then you know there are millions of true believers you could say we have a glut of them. I probably would rate holy as +2 catch for availability.
-
Holy Stuff is not True Faith.
The first includes things like Holy Water/Oil/Ground, holy books, articles and symbols of one's faith and so on. Those are things anyone can get - you can buy the Bible in a bookstore and crosses you can make yourself. Hence a +3 total catch.
The second is powers like Holy Touch, Righteousness, and people that have such powers. People with True Faith are a small group in the world and while they can do things like bless water into holy water to provide the catch for Holy Stuff to others, they can't pass their True Faith around. So far in the books, we've only seen Michael ad Father Forthill have that kind of power in the entire city of Chicago. That's 2 people out of several million. Hence a +2 total catch.
-
Here's a Lore stunt I made for a character in one of my con scenarios:
I Have Just The Thing: Whenever you successfully make a Lore role to identify a catch, you automatically have a specialized shotgun shell loaded with the targets catch. You may spend a FATE point to have enough shells to last the entire scene.
In a campaign I'd probably put some limits on this based on catch availability, or at least require shifts over the target number to identify. But, I specifically did not want that to be an issue in the scenario I made this for.
Also Belial, you forgot about Charity, but you point is still valid.
-
First of all, consider the availability of the ammo. If a catch is +2 for availability (like cold iron, vamp weaknesses, normal silver), you can find it. If the catch is +1 for availability (like True Faith or inherited silver), you should not be able to find it; only a small group of people in the world should have it. If it was findable, it would not be rated +1 for availability.
The roll bonus couls also be equal to total cost break of the Catch. A -4 Catch, gives a +4 to the roll. -0, a +0. And so on. ALos I'd require said gunslinger to know what the Catch was and said ammo needs to be able to exist or he needs really good reasons he could have gotten.
"Yeah, I was just visiting my Nordic dwarf buddy (which he has an Aspect for), he toys around making wierd ammo and he wanted me to test out these 'Sun Bullets'. Wierd things glow in the dark, I hope they're not radioactive.... they've been in my bandolier for a week."
-
On the one hand, a stunt that does nothing more than ensure the right ammo type seems none too over-powered. On the other hand, the stunt could be seen as veering dangerously close to granting 'All Creatures Are Equal Before God' to any gun he happens to be carrying, and without the usual Fate point cost for activating the 'All Creatures' power. "Oh, look! I just happen to have holy silver-plated cold-steel incendiary rounds! Lucky me..."
I think that a stunt along these lines should do one of a couple of things:
* Allow you to make the normal roll without spending Fate (no more than once per scene) OR
* Allow you to make the normal roll for the usual cost but give you a bonus (+2) to the roll
It should probably not allow you to get supernatural ammo (holy or enchanted) and the ammo should not provide any bonuses other than satisfying a Catch. It is probably reasonable to waive this limitation if the character has an appropriate aspect ("My Best Friend Bob, the Vampire-Hunting Priest"). Belial's comments on availability based on Catch values also make a lot of sense.
Regarding 'Holy' catches: Bibles probably do not qualify, in and of themselves. Wielded as an instrument of Faith in the hands of a True Believer, they do. Water drawn from a tap in the bathroom of a church is not Holy Water. Water deliberately blessed by a True Believer is. So 'holy items' are probably a lot more rare than most people seem to think, and in many cases they are only as holy as the wielder. Given that it is counted as a +2 Catch and that it is usually a well-known weakness for those with the Catch, that leaves it as being extraordinarily rare.
-
The crux of this question is "how valuable should a fate point be". The answer is going to differ depending on the GM, and the players. Generically most mortal stunts add a free bonus to a roll, within limited circumstances (or allow a different stat to be used).
Looking at this specific one. I'd say have them make a lore roll to "know" what the right tool for that job is, and with a successful lore roll, they can have a small number of rounds (2-3). Anything more would require a declaration (and thus a fate point) Some GM's might want to limit the # of rounds to the success's on a roll, the lore roll, or a guns role.
Clever GM's would let this stand, as the consequences of a players getting caught with "those rounds" on his/her person should be more than enough to offset the value of having them in a fight, particularly if the # of rounds are limited.
-
A few things I feel should be noted:
Any skill check to see if you have Catch satisfying rounds should be restricted by Lore. You have to know what rounds to have to have them (or know to use them).
A stunt that just lets you have whatever ammo you want is overpowered. It means that the creatures' Toughness powers are moot. No fair. He may not like it, but even the Sword of the Cross requires a Fate point and Sacred Guardian makes you take stress. These cost refresh (and Pure Mortals can't have them). -1 Refresh to potentially satisfy basically every catch is not balanced. Moving on.
If he wants to have the proper ammo (this is for in the middle of a fight):
Roll a declaration (Contacts, Guns, Resources, Craftsmanship) restricted/modified by Lore to see if you have it. It may be restricted by Resources too (if it's quite expensive). If it succeeds, you get the aspect "Catch Satisfying Rounds." You get a free tag for effect "I satisfy the Catch for this attack." After that, you'd be spending FP to keep it up (at least by how I'm understanding RAW).
Personally, if a character devotes a scene to preparing the proper ammo (still rolling a declaration) outside of combat, I'd allow him to satisfy the Catch for one scene. The difference here is that the character is prepared for ONE type of critter rather than ANY type of critter. He's actively satisfying the Catch and preparing, not just relying on a nifty stunt.
I'd make a stunt that gives a bonus to this type of declaration (pick a skill, obviously). If he's not confident he'll make the roll...too bad. He can spend a FP to declare (and it'll work for one attack with more FP being needed to keep it working) or spend a FP outside of combat in advance for it to work for one scene.
Remember, by satisfying a Catch, you're negating multiple points of refresh worth of powers. Examples within the system see this as costly (either in Refresh, FP, or Stress).
-
I'd allow it at my table if the PC knew what the catch was (which means either the PC or another character makes the Lore roll) and the catch could be reasonably satisfied with a bullet. A lot of catches couldn't be.
-
An alternative would be for the character to simply decide in advance that he wants to obtain several obscure bullet types, listing them and if necessary making Lore / Resources / Contacts / Whatever rolls as appropriate. Perhaps you could call this a Declaration in advance, creating the (temporary) aspect "a handful of Dragonsbreath rounds for my shotgun" or "a clip of silver-nitrate bullets". What skill might be needed and how difficult the roll might be could be determined as fits the particular game setting and might vary for different ammo types. Then, when a combat comes along for which one of the ammo types might prove useful, the character simply Invokes the appropriate aspect for effect and has that ammo type available. Until it runs out, of course.
Note that this comes with a build-in risk: That aspect could be compelled to create trouble for the character as appropriate. Police encounters are an obvious example, but consider what might happen if the character tried meeting with Fae while carrying steel rounds...
Done this way, it might not be unreasonable to have either a stunt ("Munitions connections") or character aspect ("My buddy the occult munitions expert") that grants a bonus to these types of rolls or even makes them automatically successful with a Fate point.
stunt that either gives a bonus to the advance rolls or even makes them automatic (within reason)