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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: InFerrumVeritas on April 29, 2011, 02:42:18 AM
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So, I've been statting up some of the monsters from Greek myths (primarily from Herakles' Twelve Labors) and figured I'd post them here. This is the first one that I've finished:
Nemean Lion
High Concept: Mythic Monster
Other Aspects: Man-Eater; Fearless Predator; Scion of the Chimera
Skills: Fists+5, Endurance+4, Athletics+4, Alertness+3, Might+5, Stealth+3, Survival+3, Intimidation+3, Other skills default to Mediocre or Fair.
Powers:
Physical Immunity-8
Stacked Catch+4 (Own Claws, Only Applies to Cutting and Piercing, Researchable)
Catch+4 (Suffocation, Easily Found, Researchable)
Mythic Toughness-6
Inhuman Recovery-2
Inhuman Speed-2
Supernatural Strength-4
Claws-1
Armor Rending-3 (Claws ignore all armor)
Stress:
Physical 0000(000000)
Mental 00
Social 00
Notes:
The Nemean Lion represents quite a physical challenge. Its hide makes it immune to slashing or piercing damage (swords, knives, spears, bullets, arrows, etc) but not to other types of damage (magic, bludgeoning, etc). Of course, this other damage still must bypass the lion's incredible toughness. Of course, the lion still needs to breathe.
The Lion acts on Epic initiative, so it usually goes first. It fights aggressively, allowing its incredible toughness and impenetrable hide ignore virtually any blow. It attacks and defends at Superb (using Might when it needs to enhance its Fists roll for attacking) and effectively has Weapon 6 Claws that ignore any armor score the target has. If you get close, it will probably rend you to shreds.
In a grapple, the Lion is Epic and can deal three-stress hits when successful (there is a reason Herakles beat it with a club and strangled it while it was asleep).
Chimera:
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,25619.msg1088733.html#msg1088733 (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,25619.msg1088733.html#msg1088733)
Hydra:
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,25619.msg1088942.html#msg1088942 (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,25619.msg1088942.html#msg1088942)
EDIT: Added Good Intimidation, thanks.
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Looks pretty good. I especially like the catches.
The Stacked Catch should probably be worth either +3 or +5. I suppose +4 is fairly reasonable, but I don't know how you arrived at that figure.
Armour-Rending looks a little sketchy. It's probably slightly overpriced, but who cares?
He should have at least Good Intimidation.
PS: There's already a thread for this.
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,18191.0.html (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,18191.0.html)
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There is an armor penetration stunt under Weaponry on the Home Brew list, that reduces the amount of armor by 2, I think using that instead of your Armor rending power seems fitting. . .
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Well, the Nemean Lion's claws are supposed to be unique in that they can penetrate any armor (even its own skin). I came up with the +3 because I figured a +2 Weapon Rating was worth -1 Refresh (Claws). I halved this cost since it wouldn't have an effect against an unarmored opponent (so -1 for ignoring 2 points of armor). I figured tripling this would be reasonable (ignoring 6 points of armor is practically ignoring all armor, and I figured the cost of spellcasting was more than enough to justify the power). When I wrote the power up, I wrote that it has to be applied to Claws (to prevent it from being to heavily abused). I'm okay with it being expensive as I wanted to keep it out of player hands.
I came up with the +4 Stacked Catch because it only applied against penetrative attacks (+2) and was easily researchable (+2, I mean, you can wiki it or go to your local library).
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Add Presence too. Your reputation is held by Presence, and people knew of the Nemean Lion.
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I statted up the Chimera too (I know, not one of the 12 labors, but I worked on it when I was statting up the Hydra which is coming soon).
Chimera
High Concept: Mythic Three-Headed Monster
Other Aspects: Many Beasts, One Monster; Close-Combatant’s Nightmare; Force of Destruction
Skills: Weapons+5, Fists+5, Athletics+4, Endurance+4, Intimidation+3, Alertness+3, Survival+3, Presence+2
Powers:
Breath Weapon (Fire)-2
Catch (Ingested Lead, Researchable, Can Be Obtained Easily)+4
Supernatural Toughness-4
Supernatural Recovery-4
Multi-Headed Attack-7 (Snake, Goat, Lion)
Inhuman Speed-2
Supernatural Strength-4
Poisonous Claws-3 (Fangs of snake-headed tail)
Hulking Size-2
Stress:
Physical 0000(00)(0000)
Mental 00
Social 000
Notes:
The Chimera acts on Epic initiative. It is incredibly tough with its only weakness being ingested lead, which is incredibly poisonous. Up close, the Chimera’s multiple heads represent a very difficult challenge even for multiple opponents. The Chimera is incredibly aggressive, often attacking even when unprovoked. It attacks and defends at Epic. It likes to begin combat with its breath weapon (Weapon 2 fire), then close in and poison its opponents with its snake head. Its horns, claws and fangs are all effectively Weapon 6. Against multiple opponents, the Chimera uses Multi-Headed Attack. An effective battle tactic is maneuvering to aim just when the Chimera opens its mouth and attack there with a lead weapon (lead tipped spear, bullets).
Multi-Headed Attack [-Varies]: -3 initially
Requirements: Must have high concept relating to having multiple heads. Must have a way of attacking with each head (Claws and/or Breath Weapon)
Skills Affected: Fists, Weapons
Effects:
Multiple Targets: You may make a spray attack with your fangs and/or breath weapon against a maximum number of targets equal to the total number of heads you have. Fangs (Claws) must be used against adjacent targets, but breath weapons may be used either against adjacent targets or targets one zone away. You make a single roll (either Weapons or Fists, whichever is higher), but apply the different weapon properties of each type of attack.
Multiple Minds at Work: You gain a +1 per extra head to all attack and block rolls.
Venomous Assault [-2 (one time, not per head)]: If you have Venomous claws (or a Poisonous Breath Weapon), you may opt to place a POISONED aspect on the target upon a successful spray attack instead of dealing stress.
Cost: -3 for two heads, -2 for each additional head
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I statted up the Chimera too (I know, not one of the 12 labors, but I worked on it when I was statting up the Hydra which is coming soon).
Considering that one of the twelve labors was shoveling horse crap, which would stink to stat up (ha! see what I did there...sorry)...I think you're safe :P
I think the Chimera would be pretty powerful in a game...since the powers are likely unique to the creature (or its ilk) I think it's fair and an awesome challenge. As long as we don't have PC chimera/hydras running about.
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Yeah. I intended the powers to be rather strong, but I figured they were "Creature Features" that PCs weren't likely to grab. I also tried to make sure that they were prohibitively costly (multi-headed attack is, at a minimum the same cost as Evocation and you can do a lot more with Evocation since all it really is is a spray attack with a couple powers and some minor bonuses so it's really only powerful when you start adding lots of heads).
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Hydra
High Concept: Mythic Multi-Headed Monster
Other Aspects: Hero Killer; Almost Impossible to Kill; Not a Fan of Fire; Highly Poisonous Blood
Skills: Fists+5, Weapons+4, Endurance+4, Athletics+5, Survival+3, Intimidation+3, Presence+2, Might+3, Alertness+3
Powers:
Poisonous Breath Weapon-5 (Acid)
Venomous Claws-4
Multi-Headed Attack-7 (at least, at first)
Hydra’s Regeneration-6
Mythic Regeneration-6
Catch (Decapitation)+3
Aquatic-1
Stress:
Physical 0000(000)
Mental 00
Social 000
Notes:
The Hydra represents an incredible physical challenge. It is virtually impossible to kill and can regenerate practically any part of its body (including its famed ability to sprout two heads if one is cut off) unless all of its heads are removed. At first, it attacks and defends at Epic (but the more heads are cut off, the higher this goes). It isn't afraid to attack multiple targets at once, trying to poison on the first round with either its breath or bite.
Multi-Headed Attack [-Varies]: -3 initially
Requirements: Must have high concept relating to having multiple heads. Must have a way of attacking with each head (Claws and/or Breath Weapon)
Skills Affected: Fists, Weapons
Effects:
Multiple Targets: You may make a spray attack with your fangs and/or breath weapon against a maximum number of targets equal to the total number of heads you have. Fangs (Claws) must be used against adjacent targets, but breath weapons may be used either against adjacent targets or targets one zone away. You make a single roll (either Weapons or Fists, whichever is higher), but apply the different weapon properties of each type of attack.
Multiple Minds at Work: You gain a +1 per extra head to all attack and block rolls. Venomous Assault [-2 (one time, not per head)]: If you have Venomous claws (or a Poisonous Breath Weapon), you may opt to place a POISONED aspect on the target upon a successful spray attack instead of dealing stress.
Cost: -3 for two heads, -2 for each additional head
Hydra’s Regeneration [-6]:
Requirements: Mythic Recovery, High Concept relating to being a Hydra
The More the Nastier: You gain one additional stress box for each head you have.
They Keep Coming Back: Each time you take enough stress to take you out (before applying consequences) in a single exchange, you are decapitated. You may take consequences to reduce this stress, but you still lose the head. Each time you are decapitated, you grow two new heads. These heads grow at the start of your next turn.
Catch: The Catch for this power is cauterization. It must be done before the heads sprout. If the initial attack could cauterize it (fire attacks for instance), you don't sprout the heads. Otherwise, the cauterization can be done as a maneuver (so long as your opponent has a way to do so), but must be done before the new heads grow.
This functions like a stacked catch.
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I might resist the temptation to give these monsters Fists 5. I feel like it's more in-genre if they're incredibly dangerous if they connect, but not quite _that_ hard to dodge (or to hit, for that matter). But if they do manage to hit, watch out!
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Not such a fan of these two, I'm afraid.
Basically, I just don't like the custom powers.
Multi-Headed Attack has a good spray attack effect but also includes a tacked-on skill bonus. I'm not sure if you meant it to benefit defences or not. There's currently no particular reason to actually make spray attacks with it.
Hydra's Regeneration is just plain clunky. I don't understand exactly how it works.
Also, I'm not really sure what the exact effect of the catches are supposed to be or how you got their values.
PS: I don't view Fists 5 as particularily impressive accuracy.
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Not such a fan of these two, I'm afraid.
Basically, I just don't like the custom powers.
Multi-Headed Attack has a good spray attack effect but also includes a tacked-on skill bonus. I'm not sure if you meant it to benefit defences or not. There's currently no particular reason to actually make spray attacks with it.
Hydra's Regeneration is just plain clunky. I don't understand exactly how it works.
Also, I'm not really sure what the exact effect of the catches are supposed to be or how you got their values.
PS: I don't view Fists 5 as particularily impressive accuracy.
Catch Values:
Nemean Lion Physical Immunity Catch+4 (It only protects against one type of damage, so +2 there, it is very easy to research so another +2). I figure the Herakles myths are about as easy to get ahold of as Dracula.
Nemean Lion Toughness Powers Catch+4 (Again, its easy to research and basically anyone with 20 min in any library could gain access to the information so +2 catch there, suffocation is something that anyone could reasonably get access to via strangulation, drowning, etc so I gave it another +2 although I could see an argument for that only being a +1 due to the difficulty of weaponizing something like that against a close combat monster)
Chimera Catch+4 (It is very easy to research this one as well so I gave it a +2. Then lead is very easy to come by and weaponize so another +2 there). I know I said ingested lead, but a simple maneuver (Aiming into open mouth) covers it. In the ancient world, I'd probably have made it smaller, but most bullets are lead.
Hydra's Decapitation Catch+3 (Because of the amount of damage that you need to hit with to satisfy the Catch, I only gave it a +1. It is, however, stupidly easy to research how the Hydra was killed, so another +2).
Basically for most of these monsters, their stories will be and have been told for thousands of years. Their weaknesses and vulnerabilities, if they aren't already known, can easily be researched (Disney movies, books at the library, Wikipedia), so the Catches will all pretty much have a +2 at least (if you know you're fighting a Nemean Lion, you'll be thinking about ways to cut off its air before you even leave the house...ditto for how to make the Chimera literally eat lead and how to take a Hydra's head off without it growing back).
How would you model having multiple heads (I want them to be able to reliably attack multiple opponents in a single exchange but don't want them to really be able to make multiple actions) and the way Hydras regenerate? A lot of the monsters' threat comes from having multiple heads (especially with the Hydra). It's not something DFRPG modeled within the rules yet is something which fits the flavor of the game.
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Well, just because the mythical monster died a certain way doesn't mean that it is necessarily vulnerable to that thing. So I'd call most of those +1 for researchability. Also, needing to invoke an aspect created through maneuver in addition to using a certain type of weapon doesn't seem easy to me at all. That means you can only attack every second turn.
Anyway, here's my attempt at Multiple Heads/Limbs. I made it a bit broader, in case someone wants to play a 10-handed Hindu Scion or some such thing. It is intentionally not useful against a single target, but that's easily changed.
Extra Appendages [-2]:
Requirements: Appropriate High Concept.
Skills Affected: Fists, Weapons, Guns
Effects:
Multiple Targets. You may make spray attacks with anything, within reason.
Mix And Match. You may use multiple different weapons in a single spray attack. Use the lowest applicable skill. You may also make attack-like maneuvers as part of a spray attack.
Excellent Coordination [-1]. For each purchase of this power, add 1 to the accuracy of each attack or maneuver within spray attacks that you make. This cannot increase accuracy beyond the number of shifts that you had to split up between attacks in the first place.
Dismemberable [+1]. (Requires Excellent Coordination) Each consequence that you take removes the effects of one purchase of Excellent Coordination until that consequence heals. If this reduces the effects of all of your purchases of Excellent Coordination, remove the effects of this power entirely.
Hydra-Style Recovery [-2]. (Requires Dismemberable and a Recovery power) Whenever you use your Recovery power to negate a mild consequence, you gain the efffects of two purchases of Excellent Coordination until the end of the scene.
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Excellent Coordination [-1]. For each purchase of this power, add 1 to the accuracy of each attack or maneuver within spray attacks that you make. This cannot increase accuracy beyond the number of shifts that you had to split up between attacks in the first place.
So, is this sort of a generic substitute for adding extra "heads" and the "Multiple Minds at Work"? Or was "Multiple Minds at Work" removed to make it less useful against a single target?
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Well, just because the mythical monster died a certain way doesn't mean that it is necessarily vulnerable to that thing. So I'd call most of those +1 for researchability. Also, needing to invoke an aspect created through maneuver in addition to using a certain type of weapon doesn't seem easy to me at all. That means you can only attack every second turn.
Fair enough. I suppose I could reduce those things based on the fact that many of these need maneuvers to set up (although I still think it is very easy to research at least one effective way to kill these monsters using the catch and thus it is worth the +2 as per the description of the Catch in YS).
Anyway, here's my attempt at Multiple Heads/Limbs. I made it a bit broader, in case someone wants to play a 10-handed Hindu Scion or some such thing. It is intentionally not useful against a single target, but that's easily changed.
Extra Appendages [-2]:
Requirements: Appropriate High Concept.
Skills Affected: Fists, Weapons, Guns
Effects:
Multiple Targets. You may make spray attacks with anything, within reason.
Mix And Match. You may use multiple different weapons in a single spray attack. Use the lowest applicable skill. You may also make attack-like maneuvers as part of a spray attack.
Excellent Coordination [-1]. For each purchase of this power, add 1 to the accuracy of each attack or maneuver within spray attacks that you make. This cannot increase accuracy beyond the number of shifts that you had to split up between attacks in the first place.
Dismemberable [+1]. (Requires Excellent Coordination) Each consequence that you take removes the effects of one purchase of Excellent Coordination until that consequence heals. If this reduces the effects of all of your purchases of Excellent Coordination, remove the effects of this power entirely.
Hydra-Style Recovery [-2]. (Requires Dismemberable and a Recovery power) Whenever you use your Recovery power to negate a mild consequence, you gain the efffects of two purchases of Excellent Coordination until the end of the scene.
Thank you. I both like and dislike parts of this. I like the way you treat the attack (it is more general) and you bonuses and costs make more sense. However, I dislike the way you treat the decapitation and recovery. While slightly clunkier, I feel that my model (with some refinement, of course as I do know it can be improved upon) represents it better. For instance, the Hydra has to be killed by removing all of its heads and keeping them from growing back (unlike other monsters in this myth the way to kill it is explicitly stated as the only way although one interpretation was that it was that you had to remove the single immortal head). And it is impossible to take as many mild consequences as the Hydra is supposed to be able to recover from (even with stunts and mythic recovery you are still looking at less than the "countless" heads the Hydra had).
Still, I want to playtest this creature and see how it works out. I think the others are fine. I'll report back.
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Suffocation for the Nemean Lion is NOT easily found; it has supernatural strength and might +5. Nothing human can strangle it - and most supernatural creatures can't do it either. Humans could not do it physically even with machines - it is strong enough to rip off vault doors. Gasses that do suffocation are a nonissue due to its speed; it can take a supplemental to move out of the gassed zone without penalty if in the open or tear into the next room if in a closed space. So it is, at best, a +3 catch.
The chimaera's catch is not a +4 either; the catch of the Red Court is just as researchable (sunlight, fire, holy - the stomach stab is just a bonus), it is much broader and more easily weaponizable and it is a +3.
The Hydra's regeneration assumes you are an idiot and use slashing damage against the Hydra. I got a bow or a machinegun. I shoot one of the heads and the Hydra takes stress. Eventually it is taken out. The head is full of holes but it is not removed thus the "grow two in the place of one" trick doesn't work. Ditto for lightning magic that shocks to death, entropy magic that turns target to dust upon takeout, ice magic that freezes the target, a vampire draining the target of blood and so on with any attack except slashing damage.
The Hydra should have just immunity to slashing with the bonus of the slashing attacks counting as maneuvers applying the "extra head" aspect a Hydra could tag for various bonuses.
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Excellent Coordination is indeed the substitute for Multiple Minds At Work and the head numbers.
I removed Multiple Minds At Work because straight skill bonuses are to be avoided on powers if at all possible (in my opinion).
It is intentionally very abstract, so that each purchase of Excellent Coordination can represent as many heads/arms/legs/tentacles/whatever as you like.
So the hydra could still have countless heads with the ability to recover three mild consequences.
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PS: I don't view Fists 5 as particularily impressive accuracy.
It seems a bit much if the creatures are being built so that PCs will hit them a lot while avoiding being hit by the creatures ong enough to do something.
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Suffocation for the Nemean Lion is NOT easily found; it has supernatural strength and might +5. Nothing human can strangle it - and most supernatural creatures can't do it either. Humans could not do it physically even with machines - it is strong enough to rip off vault doors. Gasses that do suffocation are a nonissue due to its speed; it can take a supplemental to move out of the gassed zone without penalty if in the open or tear into the next room if in a closed space. So it is, at best, a +3 catch.
The chimaera's catch is not a +4 either; the catch of the Red Court is just as researchable (sunlight, fire, holy - the stomach stab is just a bonus), it is much broader and more easily weaponizable and it is a +3.
The Hydra's regeneration assumes you are an idiot and use slashing damage against the Hydra. I got a bow or a machinegun. I shoot one of the heads and the Hydra takes stress. Eventually it is taken out. The head is full of holes but it is not removed thus the "grow two in the place of one" trick doesn't work. Ditto for lightning magic that shocks to death, entropy magic that turns target to dust upon takeout, ice magic that freezes the target, a vampire draining the target of blood and so on with any attack except slashing damage.
The Hydra should have just immunity to slashing with the bonus of the slashing attacks counting as maneuvers applying the "extra head" aspect a Hydra could tag for various bonuses.
Makes sense.
I actually thought about that for the Hydra, hence why I gave it Mythic Recovery with a Decapitation catch. You have to completely remove the heads otherwise it'll come back at you. Maybe not immediately, but eventually. Now, you could fill it full of lead and kill it, then remove and cauterize the heads to keep it down of course. I suppose I might want to tack on some more toughness though.
Oh, please note that I am taking all of your suggestions into consideration, but before I make any more changes to the write-ups I would like to consider everything fully and hopefully playtest these a bit more. I'll of course credit the originators of the ideas in the edits.
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Remember that Mythic Recovery doesn't make you unkillable. If you take too much damage you still die though smart opponents will usually take consequences and once they are considerably damaged "fake it" until they heal (i.e. concede to lose the fight).
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Remember that Mythic Recovery doesn't make you unkillable. If you take too much damage you still die though smart opponents will usually take consequences and once they are considerably damaged "fake it" until they heal (i.e. concede to lose the fight).
Yeah, I'm trying to find a way around that.
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Yeah, I'm trying to find a way around that.
Physical Immunity with a regenerative effect, its how I do wolverine style healing factors.
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Physical Immunity with a regenerative effect, its how I do wolverine style healing factors.
Isn't -8 a bit extreme for a character that can still be taken out physically, dealt consequences, etc, but you just have to satisfy a specific circumstance to permanently kill?
I suppose I could just attach a -1 or -2 power "Unkillable" that means you must satisfy the Catch to permanently kill a creature...
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Physical Immunity with a good catch will probably work out at about -6 the same as mythic recovery.
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Physical Immunity with a good catch will probably work out at about -6 the same as mythic recovery.
Sure, but as written physical immunity prevents damage, not allows you to recover from it. Wouldn't it be easier to simply attach an extension to Mythic Recovery (even for -2 making it cost the same as PI)? I mean, you'd have to essentially rewrite Physical Immunity anyway.
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If you can instantly recover from damage it is the same as not taking it.
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So you're suggesting something like:
Physical Immunity (flavored as instant regeneration)-8
Stacked Catch (Decapitation: attacks to the head and neck that can feasibly remove it, all heads must be decapitated, easily researchable)+4
[Notes: The catch is +2 because it is very easy to find out that you can cut off a Hydra's head. Nearly all of the lore of the monster relates to it. Attacks that can feasibly remove a head are quite common: cutting, burning, slashing, automatic weapons, acid, etc. so another +2 Theoretically, a GM could rule that you'd have to be aiming at the head and neck for this to work, requiring a maneuver and reducing this to a total of +3 or even +2, but as a GM I wouldn't require the maneuver so I'll leave it at +4.]
Hydra's Regeneration: [-8]
Musts: You must attach a Catch to this power.
Description: Whenever you lose your head, you grow two more.
Effects:
They Keep Coming Back: Whenever an attack deals enough stress to take you out, your head is removed. At the beginning of your next turn you grow two new heads as a supplemental action unless this power's catch is satisfied before.
Two Heads are Better than One: You gain an additional stress box for each head you have.
Catch (Fire/cauterization, easily researchable)+4
[Notes: This power is based on Physical Immunity, so I gave it the -8 refresh. Basically, if you're taken out you gain more stress making you effectively immune to damage. The catch is very easy to weaponize and easy to research, making it a +4.]
So, essentially, the total cost of the Hydra's regenerative powers (Physical Immunity plus Hydra's Regeneration) with all of the catches is the same as Physical Immunity with a +0 catch, which I think is fair.
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Does anything prevent the Hydra from ripping off its own heads pre-combat until it gets a sufficiently high number of heads (and stress boxes) to be physically unbeatable?
Also, creatures like this is why I play Spirit, Faith or Void spellcasters. Multiheaded regenerating monstrous bruiser coming my way? Lemme get my Spiritual Evisceration / Banishment rotes.
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I actually think that Recovery might make you immortal if your catch isn't met.
Still don't like the custom power at all. Keying off of possible take-outs seems like a bad idea. Also, the way it works is unclear.
Why make decapitation necessary, anyway?
And if you've decided that they must take its heads off, why not just make that a mandatory part of the take-out description?
I don't think that the hydra is banishable. It is a physical creature after all.
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Rip open gate, big enough might effect to force target through. You only need a successful might roll and enough shifts for a brief gateway.
Of course, physically casting someone to the more interesting places might require lots of shifts coughoutergatescough
The bit about immortal and recovery is debatable. Lots of creatures got it (like Denarians) but they still died. OTOH, Uberghouls shrugged off being torn in two with Mythic Recovery. Maybe that was some sort of necromantic ritual to cast a block vs death on them beforehand (i.e. a block that does not stop an attack but prevents it from killing you). Or maybe Uberghouls are supposed to have Mythic Recovery + Living Dead. Technically, Mythic Recovery being a supernatural power, it trumps the "no natural healing" of living dead.
And living dead makes you unkillable, provided a form of damage specific to your nature is not used. (i.e. zombies and incineration, black court and decapitation/bodily destruction and so on)
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I actually think that Recovery might make you immortal if your catch isn't met.
Still don't like the custom power at all. Keying off of possible take-outs seems like a bad idea. Also, the way it works is unclear.
Why make decapitation necessary, anyway?
And if you've decided that they must take its heads off, why not just make that a mandatory part of the take-out description?
I don't think that the hydra is banishable. It is a physical creature after all.
I'm not happy with it either. My only issue is this: In nearly every depiction, Hydra's get harder to kill the longer you fight them unless you're keeping its heads from growing back. How else would you model this?
I feel decapitation should be necessary otherwise the Hydra is simply too easy to kill. It doesn't have the flavor of the myth or the difficulty of a challenger where you can't simply wear your opponent down.
The Hydra could theoretically rip off heads, although I would say that the creature's instincts would prevent it from ripping off a living head (a dead head, however, would be removed in order to allow the new ones to grow).
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Okay, I was playtesting the Hydra a bit. I'm considering rewriting the Regneration power to this:
Hydra’s Regeneration: [-8]
Musts: You must attach a Catch to this power. High concept must relate to being a Hydra.
Description: Whenever you lose your head, you grow two more.
I Got Better: Whenever you take a consequence and lose your head, you may tag the consequence for free to grow two new heads at the beginning of your next turn as a supplemental action.
It’s Just a Flesh Wound: You may take an additional Mild Consequence for each head you regrow with this power. Each consequence you take results in losing one of your heads.
Stacked Catch: As Physical Immunity.
I've also found that I like this better for the extra heads (thanks Sanctaphrax):
Extra Appendages [-2]:
Requirements: Appropriate High Concept.
Skills Affected: Fists, Weapons, Guns
Effects:
Multiple Targets. You may make spray attacks with anything, within reason.
Mix And Match. You may use multiple different weapons in a single spray attack. Use the lowest applicable skill. You may also make attack-like maneuvers as part of a spray attack.
Excellent Coordination [-1]. For each purchase of this power, add 1 to the accuracy of each attack or maneuver within spray attacks that you make. This cannot increase accuracy beyond the number of shifts that you had to split up between attacks in the first place.
Coordinated Attack [-1] When attacking a single target, you may add 1 to the accuracy of an attack or maneuver directed at that target.
This almost exactly what Scant wrote up, but I removed the recovery trappings (and created the separate power). I also added Coordinated Attack for benefit against a single target.
And to model the other benefits of multiple heads:
Multiple Heads: [-3]
Description: You have more heads than normal.
Musts: You must have a high concept relating to having multiple heads.
Skills Affected: Alertness, Scholarship, Investigation
Many Eyes and Ears: You gain a +2 bonus when using the Avoiding Surprise and Passive Awareness trappings of the Alertness Skill. You also gain +1 to all Investigation rolls involving the Eavesdropping, Examination, and Surveillance trappings.
Two Heads are Better than One: Gain +1 on all rolls with the Scholarship skill.
This is basically a bundle of Stunts.
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Hydra's Regeneration looks good now, except for the part where a hydra is stupid not to decapitate itself repeatedly. How long do heads last? Is there an upper limit to the number of them? What stops a hydra from "head farming" itself?
I had another idea for using Extra Appendages against a single target. Allow spray attacks/maneuvers with only one target. So you can really punish someone with lousy defences, or just straight-up multiply your attacks with enough purchases of Excellent Coordination. (This idea might be broken, I'm not sure.)
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Hydra's Regeneration looks good now, except for the part where a hydra is stupid not to decapitate itself repeatedly. How long do heads last? Is there an upper limit to the number of them? What stops a hydra from "head farming" itself?
Well, a Hydra may not think of it, but an ecologist might: resource management. More heads might mean the Hydra requires (or at least seeks) more food. A Hydra could be self-aware enough to know that it will have a harder time maintaining 18 heads than it has maintaining 4.
What *could* stop it is simple instinct: creatures generally don't opt to hurt themselves. An intelligent creature might, alas, see the value in doing so, but Hydras are never intended as an intelligent challenge: just a cleverness/combat challenge. The Lernaean Hydra is ultimately a puzzle, and making it a monster may make sense from traditional RPG logic, but in a story-based game, perhaps we don't need to give the puzzle hit points.
I killed most of a D&D group once with a "puzzle" because I had used a Construct (hit points, attack bonus, saving throws) as the main component, which inadvertently contextualized the challenge as a combat challenge, not a puzzle challenge.
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Instinct. The hydra doesn't metagame. To it, losing a head hurts. Also, no head would want itself removed. Ultimately, its a situation where the mechanic works in context and meta and powergaming with it should be discouraged.
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Eh, fair enough. I like to balance powers for PC use, but I guess that's not your style.
Mind if I add these to the mythical creature thread?
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Eh, fair enough. I like to balance powers for PC use, but I guess that's not your style.
Mind if I add these to the mythical creature thread?
You can say that selfinflicted damage doesn't count then.
Although many creature features aren't necessarily balanced (I'm looking at you Greater Glamors).
If you don't mind, I'll post the final versions of evrything on that board Monday (finishing playtest this weekend).
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Eh, fair enough. I like to balance powers for PC use, but I guess that's not your style.
Some abilities should definitely be given that treatment, but other abilities are so far out there that any PC concept that would use them should require a lot of GM oversight anyway, and there is only so much one can do to make them player-proof. Which is not an excuse to not try, of course.
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Eh, fair enough. I like to balance powers for PC use, but I guess that's not your style.
Mind if I add these to the mythical creature thread?
99 times out of 100 I agree.
Sometimes, the Gm just needs a secret weapon and can use more overpowered things since the NPC will quite possibly die and not live to be overpwoered anotehr day :D
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Sometimes, the Gm just needs a secret weapon and can use more overpowered things since the NPC will quite possibly die and not live to be overpwoered anotehr day :D
Overpowered NPCs don't die, they just Concede to overpower another day.