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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Wolfwood2 on March 07, 2011, 07:12:35 PM

Title: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: Wolfwood2 on March 07, 2011, 07:12:35 PM
During city creation for a camapign I'm going to be running, the players decided that necromancers and necromancy-related stuff should be a big Aspect (literally) of the campaign.  In fact, a City Theme is, "Necromancers' Playground".[1]  So to accomodate, I want to come up with a lot of interesting variants on necromancy and how it might be used.  Non-obvious stuff, neat tricks, goals for necromancers, and that sort of anything.  Anything to stretch beyond the basic raising of human zombies.  Ideas are welcome!

Other things going on the city (Pittsburgh) are a major (and successful) war campaign by the Winter Court to crush Summer.  Also, the White Court has deep roots in the city and are known to be in an uneasy alliance with the necromancers.  Red Court doesn't seem to be around.  Character aspects that should also be played into:

1) One PC is a priest with True Faith and an Aspect, "My Mother is a Necromancer".  Obviously I can have fun with that.

2) One PC is a White Court Virgin (despair), so ideas on how the White Court and the necromancers cooperate would be good.

3) One PC is the illegitimate son of Hermes, and the player is interested in Hermes' role as 'guide for the dead' and has taken the Ghost Speaker power.

4) One PC is an aging (or rather non-aging) ex-rock star who sold his soul to Hermes years ago and is now assigned to watch over Hermes' son and do whatever else he's ordered to.  (His Trouble is 'My Debt is Due'.)

One idea I already had is to build off the idea of zombies requiring a beat to make music potentially very important in necromancy.  Like, if you build music beyond a basic drumbeat into your necromantic spells, you can get some amazing effects.  This would play into the former rock star's character concept.  (I am not particularly concerned with following Dresdenverse canon here.  I prefer cool over Harry's idea of what necromancy can do.)

(1) If you're asking where the Wardens are in all this, they're around but operating under some hindrances.  The Wardens (and the White Council) is highly distrusted in this city, and they get completely stonewalled in attempts to track down necromancers.  Nobody will talk to them voluntarily.  Again, please no setting arguments about how the White Council wouldn't allow that or anything.  This is the city the players built, so that's how it works.
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: bitterpill on March 07, 2011, 07:18:22 PM
I have always thought the end point of necromancy seems to be transcendence, Kemmler wanted to become a god by becoming a being of immense personal power but another way would to create your own version of life. Now a child created by dark magic but possessing innocence and the potential for good would be a nice problem for you true believer.
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: Mal_Luck on March 07, 2011, 07:18:38 PM
2) Off the top of my head I can see the Despair eater resurrecting the recently deceased to continue to taunt their mourning loved ones... perhaps hoping to provoke them into committing suicide.
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: DFJunkie on March 07, 2011, 07:29:23 PM
One idea would be for Pittsburgh's Necromancers to earn the cover they're getting from the Council.  I would suggest having at least one faction of Necromancers that sees it in the same light as Kumori: as a beneficial practice that allows humans to achieve power over death for positive ends.  Given what a poor job the Council does protecting minor talents from the depredations of supernatural predators if your local Necromancers are willing to help why wouldn't you support them?

In the game I run the Seattle Underground is controlled by the Court of the Leper King, an ancient, powerful, mostly insane human Necromancer and freeholding lord.  The Council has issued specific orders to leave the Leper King in peace (stop reading if you play in my game)
(click to show/hide)
The Senior Council is aware of this fact so they leave him alone.  Feel free to steal him, or something like him, if you want.
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: Bruce Coulson on March 07, 2011, 09:45:26 PM
Harve Hathaway, Necromantic Hitman.

Has someone managed to kill someone close to you and get away with it?  Maybe they had a clever lawyer, or maybe it couldn't be proven?  You want vengeance, something the Law won't allow?  Call Harve Hathaway, Necromantic Hitman!

Harvey has found a way to gain power, use necromancy, and have people pay him.  Harvey uses a ritual to resurrect the deceased, and send them after their killer.  Harvey's sense of morality means he will ONLY send such an entity after a genuine murderer.  (He'll certainly use entropomancy against people, if the cause is just, though.)  As a result, Harve has a lot of favors owed to him in the mortal community; a few are owed by some very powerful people.

Harve doesn't think of himself as evil, or that necromancy is wrong.  Harve is righting wrongs, and necromancy is just a very effective tool.
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: Sanctaphrax on March 07, 2011, 10:15:30 PM
Not sure if this helps, but I've written stats for a number of necromancers and zombies. You can find them in the Generic NPCs thread. (It's in the Resources section.)

Reply #59 is a generic necromancer.
Reply #30 is a Senior Council level lich lord.
Replies #135-169 include a number of unusual undead.

There are also some ghosts on that thread, if you're interested.
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: wyvern on March 07, 2011, 10:15:55 PM
One character I toyed with for a while: A paleontologist with a necromancy-focused minor talent, dubbed "Talks-To-Raptors" by some indian tribe near one of his dig sites.  He doesn't have the power to actually raise a zombie dinosaur; instead, he gets abilities like Echoes of the Beast, or ritual spells that call up spectral animals that can be used as scouts and the like.  Technically, he's not even a lawbreaker, since he doesn't deal in human death or ghosts - though that's more a matter of accident than intent on his part.

I eventually rejected using the guy as a PC, but he'd fit right in as a minor NPC.  A sample plotline where he'd get involved might start off with, say, some necromancer who heard about the whole Sue incident, and went looking to steal a dinosaur skeleton for nefarious purposes...
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: Wolfwood2 on March 07, 2011, 10:32:54 PM
Quote from: Sanctaphrax on March 07, 2011, 10:15:30 PM
Not sure if this helps, but I've written stats for a number of necromancers and zombies. You can find them in the Generic NPCs thread. (It's in the Resources section.)

Reply #59 is a generic necromancer.
Reply #30 is a Senior Council level lich lord.
Replies #135-169 include a number of unusual undead.

There are also some ghosts on that thread, if you're interested.

Thanks.  Wow, even #59 is an incredible powerhouse.  What would a schlub weekends-only necromancer look like?
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: Sanctaphrax on March 07, 2011, 10:41:44 PM
Well, he won't have Kemmlerian Necromancy. That requires full wizard powers, and so that's nine refresh before refinements. Then there's two more refresh for Fifth Lawbreaker, which means that a Submerged character heads straight for NPCdom.

He probably won't be raising human zombies either, because human zombies are pretty lethal. I'm thinking that he'd only use animal zombies, and that he'd have no powers except for Ritual (Necromancy).

If you like, I can make a 4-refresh taxidermist necromancer for you.
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: devonapple on March 07, 2011, 10:48:10 PM
Quote from: Sanctaphrax on March 07, 2011, 10:41:44 PM
If you like, I can make a 4-refresh taxidermist necromancer for you.

To get those animal remains posed *just right*?
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: bibliophile20 on March 07, 2011, 11:03:54 PM
Quote from: devonapple on March 07, 2011, 10:48:10 PM
To get those animal remains posed *just right*?
"They look so lifelike..."
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: Sanctaphrax on March 08, 2011, 12:29:35 AM
You've got the idea.

Anyway, in thinking about how to go about making this guy, I more or less came up with a full set of stats. So instead of waiting to be asked, I'm posting the taxidermist necromancer now:

Necromantic Taxidermist (On The Beach)

High Concept: Necromantic Taxidermist
Other Aspects: It's Just A Hobby, Does His Own Drumming, Technically Not A Lawbreaker
Skills:
Good: Discipline, Craftsmanship
Fair: Performance, Lore
Average: Resources, Conviction, Scholarship, Survival, Investigation
Stunts:
Taxidermist (Craftsmanship): +2 to Craftsmanship when using it for taxidermy. Remember that taxidermy can disguise zombies as living things.
Powers:
Ritual (Necromancy) [-2]
Total Refresh Cost:
-3
Refresh Total:
1
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: MacShidhe on March 08, 2011, 05:42:43 PM
Quote from: Sanctaphrax on March 08, 2011, 12:29:35 AM
Anyway, in thinking about how to go about making this guy, I more or less came up with a full set of stats. So instead of waiting to be asked, I'm posting the taxidermist necromancer now

There's a really dirty trick here if he hasn't killed anyone, read any minds, controled any minds, or transfomed anyone he hasn't broken any of the Laws of Magic.  He's just really really creepy.
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: devonapple on March 08, 2011, 05:45:07 PM
Quote from: MacShidhe on March 08, 2011, 05:42:43 PM
if he hasn't killed anyone, read any minds, controled any minds, or transfomed anyone he hasn't broken any of the Laws of Magic

Yet.  With great power comes great blahdiblahdiblah. Definitely potential for a Fall, especially if someone approaches him with sufficient incentive, the way Harry leans on Butters for medical care.
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: MacShidhe on March 08, 2011, 05:55:39 PM
Quote from: devonapple on March 08, 2011, 05:45:07 PM
Yet.  With great power comes great blahdiblahdiblah. Definitely potential for a Fall, especially if someone approaches him with sufficient incentive, the way Harry leans on Butters for medical care.

Yep, and now the questions become, "Did the PCs cause the fall or are they just witnesses to it?" and "Can they prevent it?"
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: Bruce Coulson on March 08, 2011, 07:30:56 PM
Dr. Death

High Concept - Necromantic Healer
Trouble - Don't Talk to Me!

A great many medical treatments involve actually killing living tissue.  Al-chemo therapy would be a boon to many cancer patients.  Making the dead tissue move out of the body on its own would be a bonus.  And necromancy would be ideal for autopsies.  Dr. Death has a problem in social situations; they'd prefer if their patients were all as quiet as the grave... 
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: Sanctaphrax on March 08, 2011, 09:36:50 PM
You know, I think that there would be a decent market for zombie pets.

Also, a corrupt mortician/cemetary owner that provides bodies is a must.

On another note, necromancers have an enormous capacity to threaten people. Mobsters are scary, but the worst they can do is kill you. Even a lousy necromancer would be a great ally for someone who needs to be frightening.

And zombies make great labourers. Strong, obedient, and totally expendable. It could be a union issue: a certain group of manual labourers has been highly paid for years because their job, although easy, is very dangerous. But now they're being fired and replaced with zombies.

Finally, I don't think that death has to be an all-or-nothing deal. I could cut off the blood flow in my left arm until it turns black and dies, then zombify it. That's probably good for Inhuman Strength. And it doesn't need an artificial heartbeat, since it has my real one.

How do these ideas sound?
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: Bruce Coulson on March 08, 2011, 10:00:34 PM
Oh great; now I have a vision of plucky adventurers attending AFL-CIO meetings listening to rants about zombies taking work from hard-working living folks...
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: Sanctaphrax on March 08, 2011, 10:36:58 PM
Success!
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: Wolfwood2 on March 09, 2011, 02:57:58 AM
Quote from: Sanctaphrax on March 08, 2011, 09:36:50 PM
And zombies make great labourers. Strong, obedient, and totally expendable. It could be a union issue: a certain group of manual labourers has been highly paid for years because their job, although easy, is very dangerous. But now they're being fired and replaced with zombies.

That is awesome!  Thanks.
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: UmbraLux on March 09, 2011, 03:34:12 AM
There's also no reason zombies have to be just one body.  Or shaped like a normal being.  Consider your taxidermist necromancer, imagine the unique pets he could make by combining an owl and a cat!  Larger animals or a greater number of mixes make it even more interesting...

There's also assassination by insects...or tapeworms.  Sure it breaks the Law, but it's so easy to hide!

Even your laborer zombies don't have to be human or humanoid.  Consider just taking a heart...animate it and you have a pump which works as long as it has a drumbeat.  Ligaments, muscles, etc...you can build entire machines of undead.

For more philanthropic uses, consider the amputee market - can you build an animated limb?  Better yet, can you enhance it...give it superhuman strength.  And what would the criminal element sacrifice for a super-strength arm that doesn't feel pain, can't be linked to you by DNA, and can be dumped if absolutely necessary?  Ok, may not be entirely philanthropic...
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: Sanctaphrax on March 09, 2011, 09:59:46 PM
I like where this thread is going. Anyway, I've got three more ideas:

1. Keeping hospital rooms clear of infection is a big deal. Wouldn't it be convenient if you could just sterilize everything with a little death magic?

2. If necromancers are a known element of society for long enough, then the opinions of the general populations will get interesting. Do they resent the necromancers? Do they admire them? Do kids want to be necromancers when they grow up, and if they do then what do their parents think about it?

3. If necromancy remains established in the city for long enough, then it seems inevitable that some sort of subculture will form. So, do necromancers have bars? Do they have a common system of training new necromancers? Are they united socially against the Council?
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: Bruce Coulson on March 09, 2011, 10:30:39 PM
Are the necromancers protecting the city against supernatural threats?  They could be seen as unpleasant but necessary specialists by the mundane authorities, and the PCs as 'outside agitators' threatening the peace and stability of the city.  Better the devil you know, after all...
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: Wolfwood2 on March 09, 2011, 10:33:00 PM
Quote from: Sanctaphrax on March 09, 2011, 09:59:46 PM
2. If necromancers are a known element of society for long enough, then the opinions of the general populations will get interesting. Do they resent the necromancers? Do they admire them? Do kids want to be necromancers when they grow up, and if they do then what do their parents think about it?

Well it's still the basic Dresdenverse setting where magic is a secret, so I wouldn't exactly call them a known element of society.

Quote
3. If necromancy remains established in the city for long enough, then it seems inevitable that some sort of subculture will form. So, do necromancers have bars? Do they have a common system of training new necromancers? Are they united socially against the Council?

I don't think they're going to end up too sympathetic here, since when my players did their background stories two of them essentially went, "And there were these bad guy necromancers hurting people, so we kicked their butt".  And to be fair, it is somewhat of a soul-twisting form of magic.  The section on necromancy in YS isn't that extensive, but it specifically lists human sacrifice as falling under necromancy.

That caveat aside, there's definitely going to be a subculture.  I am liking the idea that there are a few 'big bad' necromancers around who have studied the lore of Kemmler, but there are also guys like the taxidermist who just do it on the weekends and such.  They might not have bars, but they do have lodge meetings and apprenticeships, and some sort of exchange of knowledge.

What I am currently trying to struggle with is ghosts versus souls.  Okay, so ghosts are echoes and not people.  But are there cases where the actual souls of people hang around?  Are there cases where necromancers call up actual souls/dead people from Beyond (and not just their ghostly echoes)?  The whole 'guide to the dead' bit the Son of Hermes PC is interested in is predicated on him actually helping dead people reach their rest, not just echoes of dead people.  How do I handle that?  Are there echo-ghosts and then true spirit ghosts?

I am also trying to figure what necromancy does other than zombies.  Let's do away with zombies or anything zombie-related for the moment.  No reanimated flesh.  What other things fit under the thematic reach of necromancy?
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: Wolfwood2 on March 09, 2011, 10:34:05 PM
Quote from: Bruce Coulson on March 09, 2011, 10:30:39 PM
Are the necromancers protecting the city against supernatural threats?  They could be seen as unpleasant but necessary specialists by the mundane authorities, and the PCs as 'outside agitators' threatening the peace and stability of the city.  Better the devil you know, after all...

No, necromancy is pretty bad for your soul.  It can't make you be evil... but it sure makes evil attractive!
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: Sanctaphrax on March 09, 2011, 10:42:57 PM
The ghost/spirit thing is a little unclear. Harry says that they're just echoes, but the fact that the next book stars him as a ghost casts doubt on that.

Well, it's your game and you don't have to follow the fiction at all. If your player wants to guide real souls, then ghosts can be real souls.

Death effects probably count as necromancy. As in, killing a forest with a wave of your hand. Necromancy might also overlap with the Outsiders' domain.

Also, things that aren't properly alive can "die". Even ignoring faeries, demons, etc, there's a lot of explorable material concerning the "death" of inanimate objects.
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: Blaze on March 09, 2011, 10:50:29 PM
I just finished running a pugmancer in a campaign.  Yes, that beloved dog* of yours can be brought back to life, for a small fee...  Why, here is my pugmancer now!
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/blazeorama/Harry%20Dresden%20played%20by%20Hugh%20Jackman/Cesarhead.jpg)  

*Sometimes when they sneeze, their eyes pop out, but it is an easy fix
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: Richard_Chilton on March 09, 2011, 11:49:21 PM
Now I'm thinking about a security firm that has Zombie Pit Bulls, german shepherds, and dobermans.  Never get tired.  Never need to walkies.  Never eats the meat with the drugs in it...

There's potential there.

Richard
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: Bruce Coulson on March 09, 2011, 11:56:12 PM
Necromancers could easily be seen by clued-in mortals as a boon...even though they're bad.

Consider what sort of supernatural predators exist in the world.  And that necromancers, if they got a place of their own, would defend that turf vigorously against all comers.  Yeah, a guy who talks to the dead and does unpleasant things to animals is pretty bad; but he's not drinking all your blood, sucking away your emotions and soul, or just plain killing you and dipping his hat in your blood, am I right?

Necromancy would seem to include anything involved with death; killing things, re-animating bodies, communion with ghosts and the souls of the deceased.  (And draining them for power if necessary...)  It could also involve the 'death' of buildings and other objects, or even the death of ideas and concepts.  Or the resurrection of those concepts.

Also, what people are the necromancers hurting?  There are a lot of nasty (or uncaring) people with mundane power in the world; if their interests are being met by the necromancers, then a few 'minor excesses' could be overlooked...  Imagine an alternate world where Kumori ends up working with Marcone.  As long as what she's doing doesn't interfere with his operations, I don't think Marcone would be overly concerned about what Kumori does to some random victims...
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: UmbraLux on March 10, 2011, 01:16:02 AM
Quote from: Wolfwood2 on March 09, 2011, 10:33:00 PM
No reanimated flesh.  What other things fit under the thematic reach of necromancy?
A few more options... 
The Good:The Bad:The Ugly:
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: Blaze on March 10, 2011, 05:14:15 AM
Quote from: Richard_Chilton on March 09, 2011, 11:49:21 PM
Now I'm thinking about a security firm that has Zombie Pit Bulls, german shepherds, and dobermans.  Never get tired.  Never need to walkies.  Never eats the meat with the drugs in it...

There's potential there.

Richard

Zactly!  He was a real troublemaker!  LOL
Title: Re: Looking for Necromancy Ideas
Post by: Taran on March 11, 2011, 05:44:11 PM
Question:

Could you use necromancy to animate a zombie and make it look like a Black Court Vampire?  I'd say yes. 

I could see a group spreading rumours of a scourge in town...

then maybe using it to get business to sell their protection services or scare away competitors/enemies