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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: perfectwashu on February 19, 2011, 10:05:25 AM
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My GM offered me four fate points to go down a dark alley, my question is how many people would think four just obviously means one hell of a royal impact on the game. Most of my party said no, just no, if its worth it... however I just couldn't say no, i mean what the worst that could happen?
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You could get yourself into a situation that cost 5 fate to get out of it...
:)
If the gm is THAT desperate it is obviously something they have spent ages prepping and it would be impolite NOT to go and see the effect of all that hard work.
As my hubby says "It not my fault, all I did was give them the rope, the wobbly chair and the hook in the ceiling, it was up to them what they did with it."
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4 Fate Points is a lot so I would have gone for it, the worst thing that could happen is you end up getting kidnapped, my GM did the same thing to a PC he ended up being mind wiped, marked and missing a chunk of bone from his arm and clearly the victim of a powerful ritual like effect. Still well within the acceptable range for four fate points.
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For me, it's more of an issue of whether or not the character would do it.
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*4 FP. Worth almost anything (if the situation gets bad you have 4 re-rolls / +2 rolls)
*As said above, clearly your GM worked hard on what's down that alley. Courtesy dictates you see.
*Aren't you curious what's worth 4 FP to your GM?
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*Aren't you curious what's worth 4 FP to your GM?
Hell, I'm curious! When I killed the old mentor wizard, I only gave the apprentice PC 3 FP!
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My GM offered me four fate points to go down a dark alley, my question is how many people would think four just obviously means one hell of a royal impact on the game. Most of my party said no, just no, if its worth it... however I just couldn't say no, i mean what the worst that could happen?
If you mean a literal dark ally, then why not? If you mean a metaphorical one then I think it depends on how you want to play your character.
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My GM offered me four fate points to go down a dark alley, my question is how many people would think four just obviously means one hell of a royal impact on the game. Most of my party said no, just no, if its worth it... however I just couldn't say no, i mean what the worst that could happen?
Well, at first you should explain to your GM he cannot offer 4 FPs at all.
However was it a compel or just a plain bargain like "these are free FPs all for you if you go down the alley"? Just cause if it's a bargain it's not permitted by the rules.
Of course if you have a stated House rule and it's not the GM's whim, this is possible.
Second thought, but you should explain all the scene, I think your GM could have difficulties in framing. Where and how did you start the scene of the alley?
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Well, at first you should explain to your GM he cannot offer 4 FPs at all.
However was it a compel or just a plain bargain like "these are free FPs all for you if you go down the alley"? Just cause if it's a bargain it's not permitted by the rules.
Escalation (Optional Rule) YS105, though normally it seems the limit for that is three fate points.
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Escalation (Optional Rule) YS105, though normally it seems the limit for that is three fate points.
The limit is three fate point, not normally, but always :)
Moreover Escalation is for very dramatic choices, not to decide wether entering a dark alley.
Thirdly I understood that GM offered the FPs and didnt compel the characters.
In any case 4 FPs to compel is too much compared to the base pool available to PCs so this can be a bad way to railroad.
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Fate encourages the GM to create a game that he likes, using whatever means he likes. Rewarding players with fate points for things other than good roleplaying is perfectly acceptable, and a common practice in many other games. Whether or not he "can" do it is irrelevant. He can and did.
Which is not to say that I would encourage that kind of thing for a compel because it would be very expensive to buy out of, but if he's just saying "here's four fate points that you get if you do this and don't get if you don't" then I see no problem.
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If I'm not wrong, FATE encourages groups and not GM to create their own games.
The roles of GM are explicited in the chapter of "running the game" and I see no power to change the rules, unless they talked with the players and decided with them.
However I'm curious to hear the Actual play of the session to understand better the situation and the ruling.
For now we can only talk in general terms.
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If I'm not wrong, FATE encourages groups and not GM to create their own games.
The roles of GM are explicited in the chapter of "running the game" and I see no power to change the rules, unless they talked with the players and decided with them.
However I'm curious to hear the Actual play of the session to understand better the situation and the ruling.
For now we can only talk in general terms.
House rules '!!!', the creme of Fate, I am certain that a GM who pays 4 fps to a character has very strong narrative reasons for doing this and as long as it does not ruin the game he is running then the GM can do what ever is expendient, rules are more like guidelines for GMs anyway.
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I am certain that a GM who pays 4 fps to a character has very strong narrative reasons for doing this
Sorry but I disagree.
IMHO if the GM needs to bribe the players to make them do what he wants, there's a problem in narration.
Perhaps he gave too few hints or traces, perhaps the dark alley in fiction hasn't became so important for PCs to go down it.
For this reason I'd like to know the whole story, just cause for now I'm just speculating.
In Fate and in RPGs in general you got so many ways to tease characters along the path you have chosen. And however you should expect characters act on their own.
In the latter case, you simply adjust the scenario on the fly.
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For me, it's more of an issue of whether or not the character would do it.
I don't see how it would be hard to justify just about any character to do that.
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Sorry but I disagree.
IMHO if the GM needs to bribe the players to make them do what he wants, there's a problem in narration.
Interesting opinion considering the entire Compel mechanic is essentially a bribe.
Four fate does seem a bit much. Not because of rules, how they're applied will change with different groups. But it is very unsubtle. I'd tend more towards a series of smaller compels with a fate point for each. May lead to the same thing, but it's not as big a stick. ;)
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Interesting opinion considering the entire Compel mechanic is essentially a bribe.
Four fate does seem a bit much. Not because of rules, how they're applied will change with different groups. But it is very unsubtle. I'd tend more towards a series of smaller compels with a fate point for each. May lead to the same thing, but it's not as big a stick. ;)
Sorry, my fault...
I was unclear just cause I didnt understood if it was a Compel or a just a bribe.
Open poster talked about an offering so I'm here asking if it's really a compel or just "if you go there I'll give you these 4 candies"
And however, if it was a compel , what aspects are the GM compelling? ;)
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Amusingly enough, I have, as a GM, a situation planned that's pretty similar to what you've described. The difference being that I would offer a *lot* more information to the player; four compels worth of fate points is something where you should out-of-game know what you're signing up for. (And, in my case, I'd be running it as three distinct compels - one of them auto-escalated to being worth two fate points - and with each compel controlling a different aspect of the situation, so the player can pick and choose to accept some, none, or all of them...)
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As far as the question of the OP is concerned: Take 'em and dive in headfirst if you can justify it even tenuously! (Or not, I'd take the chance even if nothing in my aspects remotely seemed plausible. "I, uh, don't know what happened. I just had this crazy urge..." :D
I'm very firmly in the camp of "know the rules (inside and out) but never let them get in the way of a good time"
That said, I'd probably connect this at least somewhat to the rules, since it can be so easily done.
Personally, I think I'd probably phrase it as a compel of several aspects at once, but I wouldn't be limited by the escalation rules if it really was intended to be a major, earthshaking decision.
In case offering four fate points didn't spell that out clearly enough, I'd be sure to warn the player that this must be a monumental decision and that even with just a dark alley before them they should be aware that there is a world of hurt -or at least a world of weird- waiting for their PC down it!
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Seems odd to have to bribe a character to go down a random dark alley. Now, if they'd just seen some sort of tentacle pulling the neighbor's cat around the corner and down into that alley.... well, I think most, you wouldn't even have to offer a fate point. Most character would be set up to self compel in such situations, amirite?
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For 4? No.
Maybe for 5, though...
After all, if he's offering FOUR, it's obviously going to be unpleasant...
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For 4? No.
Maybe for 5, though...
After all, if he's offering FOUR, it's obviously going to be unpleasant...
That's excellent, turn it around on the GM. Say you'll do it for 8 and do some good old fashioned bartering.
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That's excellent, turn it around on the GM. Say you'll do it for 8 and do some good old fashioned bartering.
This would work, but ideally your GM could get you to feel compelled via good compels, not FP dumps. Subtlety is the way to go.
(In this case, you could try for 5- but bear in mind this is REALLY important to your GM, so be nice)
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This would work, but ideally your GM could get you to feel compelled via good compels, not FP dumps. Subtlety is the way to go.
(In this case, you could try for 5- but bear in mind this is REALLY important to your GM, so be nice)
What kind of player are you? You need to get everything out of your GM that you possible can! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
I think sometimes not being subtle can be good too, though I'd say the OP example isn't one of those times. Though, honestly, the whole compel thing in general is not a very subtle system, imho.
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For me, it's more of an issue of whether or not the character would do it.
It seems to me that the fate points are a completely meta game issue (maybe this is what you are saying here).
Is there any story reason the characters would or would not want to / happen to walk down this dark alley?
To the player 4 points means something really scary but to the character it is just another dark alley with no special significance (I am assuming).
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If it's just another dark alley with no special significance, then the character has no reason to walk down it. And that's where the fp come in. They're an incentive for the player to find whatever thinly veiled excuse might be available to serve the needs of plot.