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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: bibliophile20 on January 30, 2011, 02:27:50 PM

Title: Newbie Players And Basic Tactics
Post by: bibliophile20 on January 30, 2011, 02:27:50 PM
Alright, so, Friday night I ran my usual session for my six-pack of college freshmen newbie players, and things went massively off the rails.  So massively so that I had to think of a legitimate reason that I couldn't just kill half the party for being too stupid to live.  And that got me thinking on newbie players and basic tactical training/thinking.

Backing up: Here's the precipitating incident: I had half of the PCs and most of the allied PCs in custody elsewhere, having been captured at the end of last session.  The warden, the photomancer and the NPC hydromancer have just returned from Edinburgh via L-Space and are in the 4th subbasement of the local university's main library.  I ask them to roll Lore for magical awareness, and the wizard get's a +7.  I tell him that he's detecting a malevolent presence that's extremely unhappy with him; the trio moves towards the elevators as the creepy background music I'm playing builds to a crescendo; the numbers roll down, the elevator dings, the music hits the high point, the door opens...

It's a janitor.  :)  He starts walking out of the elevator, pushing his cleaning cart; they can hear the bass beat from his headphones.

Relieved laughter, but the wizard isn't satisfied; he rolls a perception check with a +5 result, to see if he notices anything about the janitor as he walks by, and asks for a self-compel on one of aspects.  I sigh.  So much for my foreshadowing.  The janitor isn't breathing. 

The warden panics, lightning bolts the suspected zombie, and fries its' MP3 player.  Almost instantly, a drumbeat starts playing over the building speakers as the zombie twitches on the ground, and the trio bolts for the stairs--and the doors refuse to open.  They end up having to blow down the doors in question, and again on ground level.

They run to their car in a nearby parking lot... which refuses to start. 

And here's the major tactical blunder.  The wizard's player asks me where the nearest, highest point is.  Since we're playing on the campus in question, I mutely point towards the library that they had just exited out of.  The wizard casts levitating spells on the three of them and they head for the roof.  "Now what?"  "Um... is there an open window around?"  To make a long story short, the wizard lead them back inside the library's upper floors, inside the enclosed, close, unlit environment of a office wing on a weekend--or, in other words, a battlefield perfect for ambushes by Dresdenverse zombies, and where evocation might bring the roof down on their heads. 

I ended up rationalizing that their opponent couldn't get enough forces into place fast enough, and, as this side-tracking had gone on long enough, so I paid them two fate points each, told them to take two consequences each and that they had managed to escape without debilitating injuries (or, was implied, they could refuse the fate points and see how much deeper a hole they could dig for themselves). 

As for what's going on behind the scenes
(click to show/hide)

So, after the session was over, I had a little talk with the players about tactics; all of them are college freshmen, and the most experienced ones have had all of their tactical experience happen on a grid with 30 ft movement rates.  I told them very straight that I do not want to start killing PCs, but I will if they act stupid.  After the little talk and when I got home, I sent out the following attached to the "here's what happened this week; clarifications/links/details/stuff to discuss" email:

Quote
Now, advice time.  Specifically, tactics.

First, state the obvious.  Usually, this will feel redundant, but it helps to remind you of where you are and sometimes of things you've overlooked.

Second, assess your assets.  Weapons, gear, allies, information, etc.  Your environment is always an asset if you're creative enough.  As a subset of that, pick your battlefields carefully, and choose ones that maximize your advantages and minimize your disadvantages.  Try not to let your enemy pick the battlefield, because he'll be doing the same thing.

Third, determine your goal.  What are you trying to accomplish?  Keep this in mind; too many battle plans, in real life as well as gaming, are embroidered to the point of obscuring the original goal.  Remember that someone actually stated, in a matter of fact tone, "It has become necessary to destroy the village in order to save it."

Fourth; no plan survives contact with the enemy; keep your goal in mind, and keep that goal and your plan open to revision--and scrapping, if necessary.  Don't keep on revising a plan past the point where it is no longer useful.

Fifth: the KISS principle: Keep It Simple, Stupid.  The more details and complications you throw into your plan, the more likely it is to fail; that doesn't mean complicated plans can't work, but in a battle between complicated plans, the least complicated plan usually wins, all other things being equal.  Thinking laterally, however, can often be a simple, winning tactic.

Sixth: the Indy Ploy--making it up as you go along--only works if you have a solid grasp of 1-3.

Seventh, the hardest part: Know thine enemy.  Know what he can do, what he can't do.  Know his numbers, their disposition, their command structure, their goals, their plans.  And take what you can and try to figure out the rest--and then, figure out how to disrupt it.

So, first, asking what people think of my little primer.  Second, anything to add to it?  And third: of my PCs, two of the characters themselves should know better tactics from their backstories; one is retired SAS, and the other was the apprentice of Morgan's best friend and occasionally trained with Morgan himself.  Can they compel those high concepts of theirs to ask the GM for tactical advice?

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Newbie Players And Basic Tactics
Post by: cgodfrey7 on January 30, 2011, 03:04:45 PM
Given their backgrounds, I would ask them to make a check, then depending on how well they make their check, present a few options as things to consider.  Tell them in the future they need to ask to make that check, as none of us have the same knowledge as the character we created.
Title: Re: Newbie Players And Basic Tactics
Post by: UmbraLux on January 30, 2011, 04:09:42 PM
...things went massively off the rails. 
In my opinion, off the rails is a good thing!  Don't let yourself get locked into "one true way-isms".

Quote
So, first, asking what people think of my little primer.  Second, anything to add to it? 
It looks ok though non-specific.  I'd also mention teamwork, declarations, maneuvers, and aspect stacking.  Remind them d20's attrition style of combat doesn't work well in FATE.

Quote
And third: of my PCs, two of the characters themselves should know better tactics from their backstories; one is retired SAS, and the other was the apprentice of Morgan's best friend and occasionally trained with Morgan himself.  Can they compel those high concepts of theirs to ask the GM for tactical advice?
Perhaps, though compels don't usually benefit the character (other than gaining a fate point).  I'd use it sparingly if at all.

One piece of advice worth mentioning to you as GM - remember everything their characters perceive is filtered through you.  If they're unaware the library is potentially full of zombies and prepared ground it's because communicating that item failed.  Use the "rule of three" - always give at least three clues, three options, three solutions, or whatever. 
Title: Re: Newbie Players And Basic Tactics
Post by: bibliophile20 on January 30, 2011, 04:37:15 PM
@cgodfrey  Good idea.  Any suggestions as to what the roll(s) could be?

@ UmbraLux: Going off the rails is good.  Going off the rails when half of the party is off elsewhere isn't.  Going off the rails and then consistently re-acting in a panicky manner and leading your group into ambushes is worse.  I have no objection to off-the-rails: right now, the WCV Scientist that's holding half of the team has gone from "Big Bad" to "Potential Long Term Medical/Lore Resource And Romantic Option" thanks to some excellently RP'ed social combat.  I have objections to it when the "off the rails" requires me to save the PCs from their players' stupidity. 

As for the "rule of three" this was supposed to be clue #1 and foreshadowing for later.  So you can't tell me that going off the rails is good and then tell me that I didn't do enough foreshadowing and communication.  And you also can't tell me that I need to do three solutions when I kept trying, and they kept picking really tactically stupid ones; I can't save them from themselves and their own stupidity without taking away control from the PCs--which is what I ended up having to do. 

As for mentioning "teamwork, declarations, maneuvers, and aspect stacking," that's all system stuff.  I'm trying to teach a primer with a "non-specific" outlook of general tactical thinking which will be useful in any gaming situation, not overload them. 

 :-\ My apologies for my tone, UmbraLux, but give me some credit on having some skill as a GM; I do know about the rule of three, I know about Checkov's Gun and others of their ilk; I was doing my best to keep their asses in the frying pan and out of the fire, and I ended up having to assume direct control to save their characters from their players.  So, the purpose of this post was to ask "I have players that tend to panic and react rather than assess and act.  How can I advise the players on how to do the latter and not the former?" 
Title: Re: Newbie Players And Basic Tactics
Post by: cgodfrey7 on January 30, 2011, 05:18:07 PM
Investigation comes to mind quickly, but maybe supported by Scholarship (military background info) or Survival or even Weapons stretching things a little.  You might also pose it to your players, get them to analyze their skills and make suggestions, which will get them more involved in reviewing what other things their skills can do as well :) 

I think this was mentioned already, but to make Physical person have his shining moment, get some things up in the faces of the group, that somehow interfere with concentration a little, like attacking with pointy knuckle things to inflict pain, causing wizards to make a concentration check to keep focus, or throw running water into the scene somehow.
Title: Re: Newbie Players And Basic Tactics
Post by: UmbraLux on January 30, 2011, 05:24:37 PM
I'll pass on responding to most of your post.  However:
Quote
So, the purpose of this post was to ask "I have players that tend to panic and react rather than assess and act.  How can I advise the players on how to do the latter and not the former?"
1) Explicitly give multiple options and 2) take away any real life time pressure.  Good luck.
Title: Re: Newbie Players And Basic Tactics
Post by: noclue on January 30, 2011, 05:36:49 PM
For dudes who can levitate and blow through walls, what's the problem with being on the upper floors of a building again?
Title: Re: Newbie Players And Basic Tactics
Post by: bitterpill on January 30, 2011, 05:39:08 PM
This is Fate and if your playing up to submerged which to play wizards you really must then nothing in that senario was that dangerous, Zombies are cool and all but a wizard could easily dispatch them with area fire attacks which would also deal with the light. Bringing down a roof on somones head would mean an alertness check and then atheletics check to get out of there or form a block with evocation. I would even let the wizards roll lore instead of alertness to feel the evocation and run or shield. A roof would either do lethal plot damage or not that much damage at all to a character with at least 22 points worth of stress that really up to you.
Title: Re: Newbie Players And Basic Tactics
Post by: MijRai on January 30, 2011, 05:51:03 PM
For dudes who can levitate and blow through walls, what's the problem with being on the upper floors of a building again?

It wasn't being on the roof that was the problem. It was going inside, where they were pretty well trapped. Think of it like Harry's apartment in Dead Beat, but with no wards and a dozen ways to get in that you know of. Add in a lack of good lighting and an entity that controls the zombies and most likely knows where you are, and you have a problem.

This is Fate and if your playing up to submerged which to play wizards you really must then nothing in that senario was that dangerous, Zombies are cool and all but a wizard could easily dispatch them with area fire attacks which would also deal with the light. Bringing down a roof on somones head would mean an alertness check and then atheletics check to get out of there or form a block with evocation. I would even let the wizards roll lore instead of alertness to feel the evocation and run or shield. A roof would either do lethal plot damage or not that much damage at all to a character with at least 22 points worth of stress that really up to you.

bitterpill, they were in a library. You know, lots of paper and shelves. Destroying buildings is never a good idea in the first, place, especially when you are in them. Your fire could (and if the players were 'smart' enough to do it, I would) spread to block exits, or trap them between a horde of those zombies. Even Harry knows that. Zombies are a bigger threat then you think as well. The good ones have Inhuman Toughness, Speed and Strength, which means they are hitting with weapon 2s at around 3 or 4, dodging at 4 or 5, and can take a five shift hit without going down. Combine that with Ambush, or numbers spread into a number of zones so you can't one-punch them, and they are a big threat. Otherwise why would necromancers bother with zombies, if they were so weak?

And a roof falling does whatever the GM wants it to do, which in my opinion is a 4-8 shift attack, which will most likely force them to take a moderate consequence at the stronger end, if not more. Whether or not they have 22 points of stress (now less after the hit), if they have an aspect on them that the enemy can assess and use against them in every scene of the game, they are going to have trouble.
Title: Re: Newbie Players And Basic Tactics
Post by: bitterpill on January 30, 2011, 06:04:49 PM
I once invoked the aspect burning building and drew the fire in from the surrounding area and directed it an enemy which you could argue would clear a block and do more damage to the enemy though it was a 10 shift spell with a wizard with the right focuses he didn't even have to take a concequence and that was at submerged. Wizards are pretty much never out of options and wizards the gm have actually allowed to fly are never out of escape roots like the massive hole where the roof was.
Title: Re: Newbie Players And Basic Tactics
Post by: Lanir on January 30, 2011, 06:07:29 PM
You kind of describe your players as being pretty clueless. You presented a detailed solution to get around that but if they're having to think about the steps instead of just implementing them, you've just introduced another distraction. That method of problem resolution works great but it has a learning curve. If it didn't, everyone would use it all the time. So for the moment at least it falls victim to the KISS rule and gets discarded.

One of the best ways people learn things is by making mistakes. What you can do is help present situations where mistakes have noteworthy and motivating consequences that are non-lethal and don't completely wreck your story. There is a problem you can run into as a GM where your players are actively trying to wreck the story by doing stupid or suicidal things and that has a totally different solution. But it doesn't sound like that's what you're dealing with here.
Title: Re: Newbie Players And Basic Tactics
Post by: bibliophile20 on January 30, 2011, 06:35:58 PM
@Mijrai: thank you for the outbreak of realism.  Much appreciated.

@Hey, Bitterpill, I've got some news for you: My game isn't at Submerged!  Right now, they've all got 9 base refresh. Also, amazingly, not everyone takes fire as an evocation element.  My wizard-warden PC is an earth mage, with Air, Earth and Spirit for evocation.  Also, remember that fire is still just that: fire.  Hot air and smoke are still going to be issues, even if your GM has allowed your wizard to draw off the flames from your zone, which is something that makes me go "buh?"  And I said they levitated; not fly.  They climbed up the side of the building with a fraction of their weight.  And you just proved my point for me even better: wizards that are creative are never out of options; they could have had the hydromancer bust open a pipe and slid out of there, Bobby Drake-Iceman-style, just for one example.  The issue is that they disregarded all of those options and went into a place where their options would be constrained because they weren't thinking, they were reacting.

Also, you're forgetting one major, massive issue: There. Are. Still. People. In. The. Building.  People work late, even on the weekends.  Students are studying.  Setting the building on fire, or even using any evocations indiscriminately, is an invitation to take Lawbreaker. 

@ Lanir: I agree, we all need to start learning somewhere, and making mistakes is one of the best ways.  The list I posted was sent after the session was over as a basic primer points-to-keep-in-mind.  But, in this case, which precipitated the list, the mistakes could easily have been lethal, and should have been.  But, yeah, they need to be allowed to make mistakes.  I was just trying to share some of what I've learned so they don't make as many (in my first RPG game ever, my PC started two wars--completely by accident, so been there, done that)
Title: Re: Newbie Players And Basic Tactics
Post by: bitterpill on January 30, 2011, 06:48:19 PM
Sorry fire was only one example of an area of effect spell  air, spirit could also be used to take out a bunch of zombies in a couple of hits, you have the options of planar layers of force with all of them although the limit of not satisfying a catch is a slight hicup. At 9 refresh you can still be throwing around up 8 to eight shifts of area effect spells which is enough to one hit anything without concequences. Im just saying unless you did something to nulify the effects of your caster like sprinklers or like sucking all the of the magic out of the area then Wizard will have an option to come out on top that is somewhat the point of Wizards there a swiss army knife and a lethal one at that.   
Title: Re: Newbie Players And Basic Tactics
Post by: Sanctaphrax on January 30, 2011, 07:20:27 PM
In that situation, I would have given the players a clear warning that they were doing something dumb. It doesn't break the reality of the scene as much as most other solutions.

If that doesn't work, you could just have the zombies attack stupidly. Target the guy with Toughness, maneuver only when it's a bad idea, etc. They're brainless, after all, and nobody said that genius loci have to be good strategists.

As for the wizard vs zombies fight, I'd expect the zombies to put up a pretty good fight. IIRC zombies have great defenses and five-box stress tracks with armour 1. A six-shift evocation or a zone-wide seven-shift evocation will force them to take consequences. That would be easy for an optimized evoker, but an ordinary wizard would have trouble putting up numbers like that without taking backlash or fallout. What's worse, the zombies have Inhuman Speed and so will act first against all but the most alert wizards. And losing initiative as a wizard is bad news.
Title: Re: Newbie Players And Basic Tactics
Post by: Drachasor on January 30, 2011, 07:43:46 PM
If they are still learning how to work things, I'd advise tossing enemies at them that wouldn't immediately killed them.  Getting captured and hurt a lot a few times is going to make them rethink their strategies, especially since consequences stick around for a while.  Also, you don't necessarily have to kill them if they get taken out, they could just get chased away.  Stuff like that, along with some of the advice others have given, will make them think smarter without turning things into a binary live/die situation.
Title: Re: Newbie Players And Basic Tactics
Post by: noretoc on January 30, 2011, 09:44:20 PM
@Mijrai: thank you for the outbreak of realism.  Much appreciated.

@Hey, Bitterpill, I've got some news for you: My game isn't at Submerged!  Right now, they've all got 9 base refresh. Also, amazingly, not everyone takes fire as an evocation element.  My wizard-warden PC is an earth mage, with Air, Earth and Spirit for evocation.  Also, remember that fire is still just that: fire.  Hot air and smoke are still going to be issues, even if your GM has allowed your wizard to draw off the flames from your zone, which is something that makes me go "buh?"  And I said they levitated; not fly.  They climbed up the side of the building with a fraction of their weight.  And you just proved my point for me even better: wizards that are creative are never out of options; they could have had the hydromancer bust open a pipe and slid out of there, Bobby Drake-Iceman-style, just for one example.  The issue is that they disregarded all of those options and went into a place where their options would be constrained because they weren't thinking, they were reacting.

Also, you're forgetting one major, massive issue: There. Are. Still. People. In. The. Building.  People work late, even on the weekends.  Students are studying.  Setting the building on fire, or even using any evocations indiscriminately, is an invitation to take Lawbreaker. 

@ Lanir: I agree, we all need to start learning somewhere, and making mistakes is one of the best ways.  The list I posted was sent after the session was over as a basic primer points-to-keep-in-mind.  But, in this case, which precipitated the list, the mistakes could easily have been lethal, and should have been.  But, yeah, they need to be allowed to make mistakes.  I was just trying to share some of what I've learned so they don't make as many (in my first RPG game ever, my PC started two wars--completely by accident, so been there, done that)

Why are you asking for feedback and then jumping at the people providing it?  To me it sounds like you are not giving your players enough credit.  You hit them with spooky music, which doesn't tell them anything.  They see something that look bad and they take it out.  They then go to a car that should start and doesn't.  From that point, if I was them, I would thing something is outside with me, and messed up my car.  I think getting up on the roof is a smart tactical situation.  Then they can see what is going on, have a defensible position, etc.   When that doesn't turn up anything why wouldn't they go back in the building.  There are people there.  That means if something outside (that messed with tier car) really wants them, it has to risk being seen. You haven't given them enough to think differently.  Try putting yourself in other people's shoes and look at it from their perspective before preaching. 

Also if you don't want criticism, don't ask for feedback. 
Title: Re: Newbie Players And Basic Tactics
Post by: noclue on January 30, 2011, 10:40:31 PM
So, first, asking what people think of my little primer.  Second, anything to add to it?  And third: of my PCs, two of the characters themselves should know better tactics from their backstories; one is retired SAS, and the other was the apprentice of Morgan's best friend and occasionally trained with Morgan himself.  Can they compel those high concepts of theirs to ask the GM for tactical advice?

If it works for you and your group, more power to you. Seriously, you go.

But since you asked, I hate, hate, hate it. Then again, in our game we accepted a Fate point (I think the compel was on the City Aspect "Out in the Cold") that had us hooded by a group of wardens and hauled off to a remote warehouse to be tried and executed. That led to some rip-roaring wizard on wizard action, with fire and earth magicks and lots of semi-auto fire...But, you know Harry's all about the tactics. He would never find himself in a room full of a swarm of Red Court with his mundane girl friend at his side. That might lead to him having to call up a shitstorm of fire, burning down the building, killing everyone, including some people who may or may not be innocent...oops.

Regarding your players, I would have looked for a way to hand out Fate points for going back in the building and fighting the zombies rather than running, with a smile and a thank you. It would have been awesome. And if they had tried to run, I would have been looking for compels to get everyone in that building.
Title: Re: Newbie Players And Basic Tactics
Post by: toturi on January 31, 2011, 02:34:30 AM
So, first, asking what people think of my little primer.  Second, anything to add to it?  And third: of my PCs, two of the characters themselves should know better tactics from their backstories; one is retired SAS, and the other was the apprentice of Morgan's best friend and occasionally trained with Morgan himself.  Can they compel those high concepts of theirs to ask the GM for tactical advice?

Thanks in advance.
I think that if your characters have qualities and abilities that your players do not have, it is better to plan for it and point out certain thing to the player/s before they make a decision. If you (as a GM) think that it is tactically wiser to regroup and recon the area, tell the player whose character has such training that his character thinks so. Do not wait till they make bad decisions before trying to rescue the situation.

Or you could make it such that the characters' action are tactically wise, alter the terrain/situation so that a seemingly bad action is really a good one.
Title: Re: Newbie Players And Basic Tactics
Post by: Drachasor on January 31, 2011, 03:47:40 AM
I think that if your characters have qualities and abilities that your players do not have, it is better to plan for it and point out certain thing to the player/s before they make a decision. If you (as a GM) think that it is tactically wiser to regroup and recon the area, tell the player whose character has such training that his character thinks so. Do not wait till they make bad decisions before trying to rescue the situation.

Or you could make it such that the characters' action are tactically wise, alter the terrain/situation so that a seemingly bad action is really a good one.

I agree with this.  I'd lean towards just telling them that General Bob wouldn't think that was a tactically wise decision (well, as best I saw it anyhow).  I'd only do that for really dumb choices though (going to the roof, OK, going into the darkened library, I'd point out the issues).  I'd want to leave a good amount of room available for the player to think up clever ideas for the battle.
Title: Re: Newbie Players And Basic Tactics
Post by: Aetius on January 31, 2011, 11:09:55 PM
Hey,
Now for the record I actually am one of the players in this campaign and I joined the boards pretty much for the purpose of defending my Gm's statements and to clear up some confusion. Though for the record I was not involved with the SNAFU that Bibliophile20 outlined.

The main problem was that this was meant to be a simple event.  PC's leave the library, see a strange janitor and leave the library with a sense of dread.  Then we'd get back to the regular scene.  Instead, our wizard, who is more of a power player than an RP'er got paranoid and the GM told him (through an awareness check) that the janitor was a zombie.  He panicked, fried the zombie, the malevolent force turned on the rhythm and they fled.  Once out of the building, still in a panic the wizard levitated them "out of harm" and onto the library.  For the record, the wizard has something of a "Molly Carpenter syndrome" and thinks that magic can solve all problems (this was the second time in the scenario that he had tried to use levitate, the other had talked him down the first time).

So yeah, personally, I couldn't have come up with a better option in the situation.  But yeah, the situation went off the rails and things got a little haywire.  Just wanted to clear up any confusions and say that this guy does know what he's talking about.
Title: Re: Newbie Players And Basic Tactics
Post by: bitterpill on January 31, 2011, 11:21:56 PM
Levitate is unbelievable dangerous spell in the DRF if you overshoot or undershoot then at the very least your going to have a nasty fall and levitating a party of four is well extreme, if i remember I think Harry does it with 2 people but if I was GM i would make it a very high shift spell and I would make him roll discipline twice for properly guiding the levitation if I would allow it at all. 
Title: Re: Newbie Players And Basic Tactics
Post by: noclue on February 01, 2011, 05:59:16 AM
The main problem was that this was meant to be a simple event.

Quote
So yeah, personally, I couldn't have come up with a better option in the situation.  But yeah, the situation went off the rails and things got a little haywire.  Just wanted to clear up any confusions and say that this guy does know what he's talking about.

You say "things got a little haywire" like it's a bad thing. To me it just looked like things got interesting. Give the Wizard an Aspect about being a Molly Carpenter and let him start earning Fate for it.
Title: Re: Newbie Players And Basic Tactics
Post by: toturi on February 01, 2011, 06:20:09 AM
You say "things got a little haywire" like it's a bad thing. To me it just looked like things got interesting. Give the Wizard an Aspect about being a Molly Carpenter and let him start earning Fate for it.
It is only "interesting" if you can easily deal with it or you do not need to deal with it. Otherwise, it should be a bad thing, unless you can get Fate points for having good things happen to the character.
Title: Re: Newbie Players And Basic Tactics
Post by: Drachasor on February 01, 2011, 06:37:13 AM
The main problem was that this was meant to be a simple event.  PC's leave the library, see a strange janitor and leave the library with a sense of dread.  Then we'd get back to the regular scene.  Instead, our wizard, who is more of a power player than an RP'er got paranoid and the GM told him (through an awareness check) that the janitor was a zombie.  He panicked, fried the zombie, the malevolent force turned on the rhythm and they fled.

Dude, maybe he panicked, but are you seriously saying that frying the zombie was a bad call?  I'd say leaving the zombie around would be worse, generally speaking.  Once you find out there is one zombie, it is then time to find the source and figure out what to do about it (or at least try to find the source).  Frying zombies is a pretty good instinct, especially if they are within distance of killing you.  Now, I could see an argument for being subtle there and trying to bug the zombie and figure out where its master was, but just leaving seems a bit silly and even irresponsible.

Once out of the building, still in a panic the wizard levitated them "out of harm" and onto the library.  For the record, the wizard has something of a "Molly Carpenter syndrome" and thinks that magic can solve all problems (this was the second time in the scenario that he had tried to use levitate, the other had talked him down the first time)

The car has been disabled and there are zombies around.  Thinking you are in a trap is NOT a bad call.  I think I'd personally think we are most likely to get attacked in that situation (that's why someone disabled our ride) if I was him.  Moving to somewhere safe makes sense.  Now, his choice of where to go (top of the library) wasn't the best call, but moving was definitely sensible.  Worth considering sealing the entrance to the library roof and waiting until dawn to investigate things at that point, while keeping watch.  Going into a library potentially with a bunch of zombies in it isn't a great idea.  That said, top of the library was a bad call, but I don't see how the other stuff he did was bad.
Title: Re: Newbie Players And Basic Tactics
Post by: noclue on February 01, 2011, 08:16:36 AM
It is only "interesting" if you can easily deal with it or you do not need to deal with it. Otherwise, it should be a bad thing, unless you can get Fate points for having good things happen to the character.

Depends on what you mean by "good" and "bad." I can assure you my character would not view getting a burlap sack tied around his head and being hauled off to a darkened warehouse a good thing, but as a Player I thought it was nifty. So, in a way you can get Fate points for good (i.e. Interesting) things happening to your character, as long as your character isn't happy about it.

From the OP, my understanding is that the players were chastised for this behavior, when I think it sounds straight up Dresden crazy. Everything I hear about the scene makes me think the players actions are making it more fun. Got paranoid and fried a zombie? Awesome. Much better than seeing a zombie and being all "ooky" and leaving. Grabbed someone and levitated them to the top of a tower in the middle of campus and ended up right where they wanted you? Awesome. Completely awesome. I want to play that game. I want to be in that tower fighting for my life against a zombie horde. I got Fate points. I got magicks! I got stress and consequences and concessions. Let's rock.
Title: Re: Newbie Players And Basic Tactics
Post by: bibliophile20 on February 01, 2011, 01:22:19 PM
Going into a library potentially with a bunch of zombies in it isn't a great idea.  That said, top of the library was a bad call, but I don't see how the other stuff he did was bad.
That was kind of the point; I was trying to give context for the tactical situation that lead to the bad decision--and given the general response, it's the last time I will do so.  Sorry guys, and no offense intended, but the signal to noise ratio in this thread has been appalling and while that's in some part my fault for giving too much information, it's not entirely so.  So, thread-lock and let us just forget a post I made under the influence of no sleep and Con-rot.  'Kay?