ParanetOnline

The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: sjksprocket on January 28, 2011, 04:15:11 PM

Title: WCV that fed off of glutony
Post by: sjksprocket on January 28, 2011, 04:15:11 PM
I am basing my campaign out of Lancaster, PA. One of the locations we wrote up was for Hershey Park. We have it owned and operated by WCV that feed off of gluttony and over consumption. Little kids running around and eating till they get sick. Heck some adults too. Thought it could come up with some interesting situations. Any thoughts?
Title: Re: WCV that fed off of glutony
Post by: MacShidhe on January 28, 2011, 04:32:53 PM
Sounds interesting, what's their catch?
Title: Re: WCV that fed off of glutony
Post by: MijRai on January 28, 2011, 04:46:10 PM
True Charity, I'd say. I've never seen a Gluttony WCV though, mostly just Greed ones who turn out to be stock brokers and bankers.
Title: Re: WCV that fed off of glutony
Post by: Hoyled on January 28, 2011, 05:10:38 PM
The WCVs behind all you can eat food chains like Golden Corral. Or better yet make them predominatly Chinese, they own those little chinese buffets you see in every minimall and shopping center. The ones where you eat four plates of food and an hour later your starving agian.
Title: Re: WCV that fed off of glutony
Post by: Tsunami on January 28, 2011, 05:22:06 PM
As catch i propose asceticism.
Title: Re: WCV that fed off of glutony
Post by: riplikash on January 28, 2011, 07:09:33 PM
Personally I'm not a big fan of white court vampires who 'feed' on something that isn't easily externally inflicted like lust, pain, or despair, especially when they feed ambiently. Having to feed off ambient energy was one of Thomas's major hinderances

Rember, typically white court vampires need to feed directly off of a single victim, pushing them further and further into their emotions, draining them of their emotional energy, often till the point of death. I have difficulty seeing gluttony being fed off in this manner. While the other emotions are self perpetuating, gluttony is not. While they might sponsor an enviroment that promotes the kind of energy they like, it isn't their primary method of feeding.

If such a group existed I would not imagine them 'feeding' off kids eating too much candy, that would be too diluted. They would have to isolate individuals, and incite them to eat literally to death. That I could see, though it just isn't subtle enough for my tastes, like pain, lust, and despair are.
Title: Re: WCV that fed off of glutony
Post by: bitterpill on January 28, 2011, 08:11:21 PM
Pain dosen't count its a sensation rather than an emotion. Gluttony proably dosen't count as well its a sin not an emotion but there are emotions linked to Gluttony (greed) so I presume you mean them. 
Title: Re: WCV that fed off of glutony
Post by: Drachasor on January 28, 2011, 08:37:57 PM
Quote from: bitterpill on January 28, 2011, 08:11:21 PM
Pain dosen't count its a sensation rather than an emotion. Gluttony proably dosen't count as well its a sin not an emotion but there are emotions linked to Gluttony (greed) so I presume you mean them.  

The problem with greed, imho, is that like anger, it isn't likely to be very friendly to anyone nearby, which includes the vampire.  Makes feeding difficult.  Lust is friendly to those nearby.  Despair and overwhelming Fear are both rather self-destructive, so it is also easier to control the situation.  This is significant when you have to touch the victim to feed.

Looking at the 7 deadly sins for ideas, Sloth seems like an excellent option (the others are kind of crappy besides lust which has already been done).

Edit:  I suppose Anger WVC might go about inciting riots though.  Anger is easier to get people working together on.  I think a good litmus test for any new WCV emotion would be "can people work together expressing overwhelming amounts of that emotion."  Anger?  Check.  Lust?  Check.  Fear?  Check.  Despair?  Check.  Sloth?  Check.  Greed?  I don't think so, two people being overwhelmingly greedy are going to fight each other over stuff, and that inherent internal conflict makes it a difficult thing to incite and feed upon.  The same is true of many of the 7 deadly sins that can count, such as Pride, like others have said, gluttony doesn't feel right since it isn't really an emotion...and I think overwhelming hunger (if you changed it to that) is much like greed...unfriendly to others who might be competitors.  You could certainly have a WCV feed on such things, but I don't think it could get very organized...the odd aberration at most.  (Hunger is actually pretty disturbing to me...reminds me of that Supernatural Episode where they thought a Cupid had gone rogue).
Title: Re: WCV that fed off of glutony
Post by: bitterpill on January 28, 2011, 08:46:32 PM
Greed is pretty much the same as lust I probably don't have to point it out unless you can malipulate extreme lust it is anything but friendly. Greed is as easy to a manipulate instead of having a really attractive body all greed Vampires would need to do is be carrying a plate of tasty looking food and even tastier looking Wine. 
Title: Re: WCV that fed off of glutony
Post by: Drachasor on January 28, 2011, 08:50:34 PM
Quote from: bitterpill on January 28, 2011, 08:46:32 PM
Greed is pretty much the same as lust I probably don't have to point it out unless you can malipulate extreme lust it is anything but friendly. Greed is as easy to a manipulate instead of having a really attractive body all greed Vampires would need to do is be carrying a plate of tasty looking food and even tastier looking Wine. 

Group sex.  I don't see how extreme lust is something that is going to cause internal strife inherently.  Extreme greed, on the other hand, is different and leads to people fighting over Elmo dolls.
Title: Re: WCV that fed off of glutony
Post by: bitterpill on January 28, 2011, 10:00:40 PM
Lust and greed are pretty much one in the same accept that lust is greed for sex and greed well is greed for everything, So NPC you can use sex powers on might be loyal servants but you can not have to of them because they would fight over you and some of them might have different ideas upon what sex is which may not be comensurate with what the user might want. if you attempt incite lust on a Grendelkin or a Troll bad things are bound to happen. ie Mantis Eat there mates. 
Title: Re: WCV that fed off of glutony
Post by: devonapple on January 28, 2011, 10:12:01 PM
Quote from: Hoyled on January 28, 2011, 05:10:38 PM
Or better yet make them predominatly Chinese, they own those little chinese buffets you see in every minimall and shopping center. The ones where you eat four plates of food and an hour later your starving agian.

Worst Jade Court Vampire idea ever. ;)

Joking aside, there are two threads to consider:

1) What is conceivable within the fictional guidelines laid down between the novels and the RPG?

2) What will make an entertaining mystery, adventure or character?

Some of the ideas presented are not as feasible from the strictest interpretation of the WCV's predatory preferences, but they can still be cool. If Toe-Moss can "sip" from clientele at a particular establishment then others could. They could even be temporarily trying it out because of some personal conflict of their own.

My thoughts:
At the most basic level, WCV can incite and then feed on an extreme emotion, killing their victims in a way that is very difficult to diagnose by modern medicine but which may not directly reflect the way they died.

When a victim has been drained during lust and found in flagrante delicto, one can maybe draw a line there. People who are "scared to death" by a fear-drinking WCV may have a rictus of fright on their face, which could be a clue. Both of these seemed to present as cardiac troubles or a brain hemorrhage.

But someone who was fed on while Gluttony was being drained may present with a stomach full of food, but they needn't have literally eaten themselves to death like the Gluttony victim from "Se7en" (
(click to show/hide)
). They may actually present like the Fear or Lust victim.

Gloom and depression muddy up the field a bit because usually the victims usually succumb to suicidal thoughts and kill themselves, but those are I think convenient distractions from the actual mechanism of feeding.
Title: Re: WCV that fed off of glutony
Post by: toturi on January 28, 2011, 11:31:28 PM
Quote from: Drachasor on January 28, 2011, 08:50:34 PM
Group sex.  I don't see how extreme lust is something that is going to cause internal strife inherently.  Extreme greed, on the other hand, is different and leads to people fighting over Elmo dolls.
Maybe the Great Depression was caused by Greed WCVs.
Title: Re: WCV that fed off of glutony
Post by: devonapple on January 28, 2011, 11:35:58 PM
Quote from: toturi on January 28, 2011, 11:31:28 PM
Maybe the Great Depression was caused by Greed WCVs.

Maybe they tended to congregate in Wall Street (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094291/). Would they be called House Gekko (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Gekko)?
Title: Re: WCV that fed off of glutony
Post by: Drachasor on January 29, 2011, 12:59:00 AM
Quote from: bitterpill on January 28, 2011, 10:00:40 PM
Lust and greed are pretty much one in the same accept that lust is greed for sex and greed well is greed for everything, So NPC you can use sex powers on might be loyal servants but you can not have to of them because they would fight over you and some of them might have different ideas upon what sex is which may not be comensurate with what the user might want. if you attempt incite lust on a Grendelkin or a Troll bad things are bound to happen. ie Mantis Eat there mates. 

Going by the books the Lust that WCV can incite is so strong that any normal inhibitions you have go away and this seems to affect the WCV in a similar way (they get in a frenzy themselves).  As for "ideas upon what sex is"...people overwhelmed by WCV lust aren't having ideas about anything.  Any hangups or other sexual issues they have would go away, I'd think.  Well, there also seems to be an element of submission tossed in, going by the books.  Though losing a lot of self-control is probably one reason why they don't tend to feed on creatures with superhuman strength (and their own toughness and willingness would tend to protect them quite ably from humans).

Greed on the other hand is different.  The inhibitions there keep people from just TAKING stuff from other people.  Lust is about doing something with other people (or person!), greed is about getting stuff for yourself.  They are different on a fundamental level.
Title: Re: WCV that fed off of glutony
Post by: devonapple on January 29, 2011, 01:10:55 AM
At the end of the day, for these emotions we have trouble justifying, we probably cannot pin a nice, neat little White Court House. It wouldn't have evolved because the circumstances involved in feeding that way are too contrived, as our discussion has revealed.

But organisms do evolve to fill plausible niches. So if a story idea can justify a Whampire subsisting on an uncommonly exploited emotion, we can probably conclude that Whampire started out feeding on an existing, easily exploitable emotion (Despair, Fear, Lust) but has simply expanded his tastes,
(click to show/hide)
, perhaps evolving to fill a niche because he was crowded out of his original hunting grounds by rivals in his original House.
Title: Re: WCV that fed off of glutony
Post by: sjksprocket on January 31, 2011, 05:23:20 PM
But my thought was that if a lust based WCV can shut down the inhibitions of a person, then maybe a gluttony WCV could shut down the gag reflex or something similar. It's like a WCV owning a strip/night club. They feed off the latent sexual atmosphere, but that doesn't fully sate them, so a few customers (that wouldn't be missed) would "disappear" from time to time. It has been scientifically been proven that having a food craving sets off the same parts of the brain as a drug addiction, just to lesser degrees. Chocolate Sets off the same part of the brain as sex does. There is more to food then just a need for calories.

If you want to argue a group emotion versus solitary state of mind. Despair resulted in suicide in the books. That can be considered one of the most greedy, most solitary escape method out there. There is no interaction from the vampire or other people like a lust based WCV, except for the manipulation of the mind. They then feed of of the process, and then the death. This is what I was basing the whole idea on.
Title: Re: WCV that fed off of glutony
Post by: sinker on January 31, 2011, 08:28:15 PM
To be honest I like it sjksprocket. I think you've obviously thought this out enough that you can make it work, so go for it.
Title: Re: WCV that fed off of glutony
Post by: bitterpill on January 31, 2011, 08:34:19 PM
I agree that a greed vampire could work especially if you played it well in character, I just think I would less powerful (powergaming a bit I know) than a fear or despair vampire who can root an enemy in place and get it to run, I also think a gluttony vampire would be harder to Role Play and what would a gluttony vampire look like to inspire indulgence.   
Title: Re: WCV that fed off of glutony
Post by: Blackblade on January 31, 2011, 08:54:34 PM
Wouldn't a Greed Vamp be able to persuade the enemy mooks to temporarily switch sides?
Title: Re: WCV that fed off of glutony
Post by: Drachasor on January 31, 2011, 10:29:03 PM
Quote from: sjksprocket on January 31, 2011, 05:23:20 PM
Despair resulted in suicide in the books. That can be considered one of the most greedy, most solitary escape method out there.

Suicide isn't fundamentally being greedy or selfish...that's just a stupid line people in shows and real life sometimes use against people who do or consider it.  I think looking at it that way in a serious manner really misses the point of what despair and chronic pain really does to a person.  It's more about hopelessness than anything else.
Title: Re: WCV that fed off of glutony
Post by: bitterpill on January 31, 2011, 10:33:59 PM
When drowning in nothing what is there to hold on to?  

Sorry the quote is pretty much my opinion on the nature of depression for me, Sucide is not about greed but more about despair. Sorry  ;) I used to write really emo poetry and can't help the occasional turn of Pressumptious Melancholic Tripe. 
Title: Re: WCV that fed off of glutony
Post by: sjksprocket on January 31, 2011, 10:43:29 PM
Quote from: Drachasor on January 31, 2011, 10:29:03 PM
Suicide isn't fundamentally being greedy or selfish...that's just a stupid line people in shows and real life sometimes use against people who do or consider it.  I think looking at it that way in a serious manner really misses the point of what despair and chronic pain really does to a person.  It's more about hopelessness than anything else.

Quote from: bitterpill on January 31, 2011, 10:33:59 PM
When drowning in nothing what is there to hold on to? 

Sorry the quote is pretty much my opinion on the nature of depression for me, Sucide is not about greed but more about despair. Sorry  ;) I used to write really emo poetry and can't help the occasional turn of Pressumptious Melancholic Tripe. 


Sorry. I didn't mean their motives would be greedy. But to me suicide is all about their problems/hopelessness and doesn't always reflect the effect that it might have on others, or the fact that there might be another way out, through support, or change, usually with the help of others. That level of despair/hopelessness/pain/reason makes the person (even justifiably) think of nothing or nobody else, which can be outwardly construed at selfish. It was a poor choice of words, but that wasn't the point of the post. So sorry. Do you have any other thoughts on the subject?
Title: Re: WCV that fed off of glutony
Post by: bitterpill on January 31, 2011, 10:57:10 PM
No Greed certainly could cause death and despair the inability to own everything, the fact that in the end all you own all you have can't be taken with you, have you heard the poem about Ozymandias 'look upon my works and despair' and all that was left was half a statue of his face the rest was destroyed by time.  Im just not sure a greed White court feed that deeply without investing a lot of time in individuals encouraging his greed, his ambition and watching as he fails to realise what is really important, a greed vampire would have to play more the role of mephistopholes that of a tempter a conniver and a person who makes faustian bargains to truly realise his potential.  

I think though as villans Greed WCV could be awesome if played as connivers and power players, you could have one supporting the party for the whole campaign without you ever realising that he is the villan and manipulating the party.
Title: Re: WCV that fed off of glutony
Post by: sjksprocket on January 31, 2011, 11:09:26 PM
These guys in my campaign as NPCs. I'm not allowing Vampires as PCs in this campaign.