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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: arete on November 19, 2010, 07:07:19 PM

Title: questions about were-creatures
Post by: arete on November 19, 2010, 07:07:19 PM: I have to introduce a new character, and he wants to play a were-wolf. Having ran a few games I have to say I am underwhelmed by were-creatures in general. How to were-creatures progress? Can they get more than 2 inhuman traits, can they go to supernatural level in those powers, or is it something completely different?
Title: Re: questions about were-creatures
Post by: devonapple on November 19, 2010, 07:11:26 PM: I think a were-character is limited only by the Refresh points available to spend on powers. Theoretically a were-character could get up to Mythic levels of Toughness/Speed/Recovery.
Title: Re: questions about were-creatures
Post by: Buscadera on November 19, 2010, 07:54:59 PM: I see were-creatures as mortals with a supernatural ace up their sleeves. So if a werewolf has all the normal abilities for his type, he might advance instead as a mortal might, gathering new stunts or additional refresh. They can have more than two Inhuman Traits or advance them up to Supernatural, but I envision were-creatures as enhancing their mortal traits rather than beef up their supernatural forms.

As to them being underwhelming, they can do things that mortals simply can't and survive much longer in a fight with monsters. I think that's worth something.
Title: Re: questions about were-creatures
Post by: arete on November 19, 2010, 07:59:53 PM: Thanks for the responses so far.
Title: Re: questions about were-creatures
Post by: MyNinjaH8sU on November 19, 2010, 08:08:08 PM: In the game I run at Chest Deep, we have among the players a White Court Vampire, Wizard of the White Council, a mortal dedicated completely to murdering the hell out of whatever gets in his way, and a Were-bear.

The bear is positively the scariest mother in the party. He is an absolute monster when a fight breaks out. I would shudder to think of him getting more than Inhuman Strength and Toughness.
Title: Re: questions about were-creatures
Post by: Ryan_Singer on November 19, 2010, 08:48:08 PM: Quote from: MyNinjaH8sU on November 19, 2010, 08:08:08 PM
The bear is positively the scariest mother in the party. He is an absolute monster when a fight breaks out. I would shudder to think of him getting more than Inhuman Strength and Toughness.

QFT.

Beast Shape is by far the best -1 power in the game. The character gets to have a totally functional knowledge / social character, and then when the fighting starts, gets to completely reorganize their skill list for optimal buttkicking, doing things like bringing fists and might up to the cap, and dropping their Lore and Rapport on the sheet. The ability to take strength, claws and toughness powers is just the awesome icing on this awesome cake.
Title: Re: questions about were-creatures
Post by: arete on November 19, 2010, 08:55:44 PM: I have seen a werewolf with inhuman strength and speed be fairly good, but the character i am currently integrating into the game wants to have inhuman speed and toughness. He has very little offense, and I am concerned about his ability to maintain a good character growth compared to my 2 wizards and the Summer Knight that are the other players. My wizards have managed to deal damage on a level I did not think possible at character creation, and the Summer Knight is really beefy. I am thinking about allowing were-creatures to improve their spell to give them all 4 inhuman traits, but after that they will need to improve other areas.
Title: Re: questions about were-creatures
Post by: HumAnnoyd on November 19, 2010, 09:38:12 PM: I am not really aware that shapechangers are limited to only two powers. Unless the limitation is by refresh. To me this allows for quite a bit of improvement making them hell on wheels in a fight.
Title: Re: questions about were-creatures
Post by: Custos on November 19, 2010, 09:51:07 PM: That was my understanding, that refresh and thematics were the only limitations. Hell, I'm kicking around the idea of a were-dragon now and breathing fire is a must.
Title: Re: questions about were-creatures
Post by: exploding_brain on November 19, 2010, 10:17:33 PM: Text from the Were-form template, YS 82-83.
Quote
Options: The character may take up to two of these abilities—Inhuman Recovery [–2] (page 185), Inhuman Speed [–2] (page 178), Inhuman Strength [–2] (page 183), or Inhuman Toughness [–2] (page 185)—so long as those abilities are in sync with the animal form he assumes. Similarly, abilities may be taken from the Creature Feature category (page 162) or the Minor Ability category (page 169) if they can be shown to be a part of the creature’s natural advantages.

I think that Fred and the gang would say that if you want to exceed those restrictions, go ahead if you think it'll be good for you game. I don't think they necessarily meant those restrictions to include what you could buy as you advance, but I'm not sure.

I'd probably stick with those restrictions at character creation, provided I'm making a character at submerged or below.

Inhuman Speed, Inhuman Toughness and Claws, combined, (and this really is the key bit) with an animal form skill set that puts Fists, Athletics, and Endurance at Great or better makes for a pretty darn respectable fighter. At least, that's been the experience of our group.

Assuming your were-PC has Superb Athletics, Endurance of at least Good, Inhuman speed and Inhuman toughness, he will be able typically dodge a 6 shift attack, and or absorb a 12 shift hit without taking consequences. That's pretty impressive defenses, though I could see such a character having a little trouble on offense.
Title: Re: questions about were-creatures
Post by: Falar on November 19, 2010, 10:52:46 PM: Also, don't discount having a deep slush fund of Fate Points to throw out there. If you have a group that focuses some synergy together with good maneuvers and a character with a few good aspects, you can seriously crank out levels of badassery without investing a whole lot of refresh.

And, seeing as you have it left in Fate Points, you have flexibility. A situational +2 in whatever is going on can be huge. Whereas a true combat monster might be lacking in any number of areas, a well of Fate Points can have you topping decent in several different areas for minimal investment.
Title: Re: questions about were-creatures
Post by: sinker on November 20, 2010, 07:29:01 AM: Of note given recent events I'd say you're totally justified in giving weres more than only two abilities as they grow. Aftermath spoilers
(click to show/hide)
Billy totally seems to have picked up inhuman recovery recently
and he's definitely stated with speed and strength originally.
Title: Re: questions about were-creatures
Post by: Todjaeger on November 22, 2010, 07:40:26 AM: Really, the only requirements for theriomorphs is that they have the powers of Beast Change, Echoes of the Beast, both tying to an applicable animal form, Human Form, and a minimum of 2 points in some Inhuman or better skill(s) from the Speed/Strength/Toughness category, or the Minor Talent or Creature Feature categories. Again, with the requirement that any powers taken have to be applicable to the 'animal' form. As such, regardless of the Refresh level of the game, a 'weresloth; ( a 3-toed sloth being one of the slowest moving mammals) is not going to have Inhuman/Supernatural/Mythic Speed. Nor would a 'wereslug' with the Claws power really work, since slugs lack teeth or other rigid/chitinous deposits.

Now for someone playing a 'werewolf' the wolf-form could progress as the player acquires Refresh, going from an animal which resembles Canis lupus to something which has a greater resemblance to the extinct Canis dirus, more commonly known as the Dire Wolf. What could be interesting for those playing ursine were-forms, would be to start playing a were (black) bear and gradually grow as Refresh is earned/spent to playing a were version of the Arctodus simus giant bear. This would make the power Hulking Size applicable, at least for the animal form.

Just as long as the powers chosen fit with the selected animal form, advancing the powers up the relevant tracks should be fine.
Title: Re: questions about were-creatures
Post by: sinker on November 22, 2010, 05:24:04 PM: Ooh, a were-squid would have wicked claws. The beaks on those things are made of some of the hardest known organic substances.
Title: Re: questions about were-creatures
Post by: Nyarlathotep5150 on November 23, 2010, 01:44:35 AM: Quote from: sinker on November 22, 2010, 05:24:04 PM
Ooh, a were-squid would have wicked claws. The beaks on those things are made of some of the hardest known organic substances.
Well, that and squid also have claws. In their suckers.
Title: Re: questions about were-creatures
Post by: Selrach on November 23, 2010, 05:24:48 AM: Being a weresquid would suck if you didn't live near water. In fact if you have involuntary change you could die. Ouch. Plus a squid is a very vicious and unfriendly animal.

That being said it would be awesome to play a Weresquid (It would have to some hybrid form to be usable outside of the water). Maybe some kind of
dumbed down version of shapeshifter at -2 or -1.
Title: Re: questions about were-creatures
Post by: Kaldra on November 23, 2010, 05:32:25 AM: Quote from: Tbora on July 24, 2010, 04:54:57 AM
Master List
AQUATIC [-1]
See YS162
Not Amphibious [+1]. You can't survive outside of the water; when taken from the water, (say on to dry land in the middle of a city) The environment makes a Fantastic (+6) maneuver on you, resisted by Endurance; if successful, you gain a Suffocating aspect.
In each subsequent exchange, you must roll Endurance to defend against a Fantastic (+6) Environmental attack. Once you concede or are taken out (falling unconscious), the attacks stop. However, the damage is already done; without medical attention and re-introduction into your necessary environment, a taken out victim will soon die (within a a score of minutes, an hour at most.)
Re-introduction into the water, will end the effect and remove the aspect.